HAKKA who's who?

[diego]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iay3p...eature=channel

What styles use short power with the PI fist and is Henry Sue a real Grandmaster?. I don't know anything about Hakka styles except that it's easy for frauds to make money promoting phony videos and Southern Praying Mantis has nothing to do with an actual Mantis...

What's the 411 on the Hakka styles who's running the show in all the branches and how many are there?.

SPM and Chow Gar are they different? I only really know the history of CLF, WC and Hung Ga Hong Kong related family styles.

I would wiki the history of the Hakka but there are so many frauds out there why waste my time
http://en-gb.facebook.com/posted.php?id=123007574378224

[5thBrother]

Chow Gar TONG LONG (Chow Family [Southern] Praying Mantis) and Chow Gar (by the 5 Chow Brothers) and completely different systems

Chow/Chou/Jow/etc

Henry Sue brother of Malcolm Sue were both students of Nat Yuen who was a major person introducted Chow Gar Tong Long to Australia in the 1950s

Chow Gar is one of the Main systems of SPM.

Henry's tong long has changed to his own method/system of chow gar tong long and is no longer a direct part of Ip Sui's CGTL line.

The form you showed is Sam Bo Jin with slight change from Ip Sui's line.

Henry Sue's School - The Chinese Kung Fu Academy
http://www.chinesekungfuacademy.com/

[sanjuro_ronin]

Expanding a bit on what 5th brother said, most Hakka systems were family systems and as such they tended to be "OK" with personal interpretation within the system.
Chow ga is no exception.
The main lines of SPM are:
Chow Ga
Chu Ga
Jook lum ( there are a few lines within Jook lum)
Iron Ox

Of course you will see variation in methods and training and even the forms WITHIN the very systems and more so from system to system.
As an example:
The SPM I picked up and I am still working on was from the temple in Macao and it is heavily laced with Hung Kuen.

[diego]

Thanks for the replies you guys. I have done some longfist from hop ga and now my sifu has me working on perfecting Bak Mei Sup Gee focusing on making my postures tighter so short ging or small power is my total focus right now. I read that SPM has nothing to do with the northern insect style of Shaolin the name was adopted as a political cover is this correct?.

[TenTigers]

y'know, it's funny. That is the story I heard, and to me , it makes sense, as the royal family was being hunted down and executed, so to hide the origins of the system seems logical.
However some schools have different 'Historical origins" that mention Mantis-but many of them echo Wong Long's Mantis and Cicada story, so I raise an eyebrow.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I heard it was a version of Bak Mei, also heard it was a version of dragon shape boxing.
Probably just a family system that was highly effective and that got press in the right places.
As for the origins, TCMA love to invent origins, they just can't admit that some poor slob took what he knew, perfected it and put his name on it.
No need for mysterious monk, no need for "animal influence", just plain old hard working and punching people in the face.

[taai gihk yahn]

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

just plain old hard working and punching people in the face.

just noting some subtext here...

[Faruq]

I got this from PakMei.net: "The grandmaster is now Cheung Bin Lam. The senior in North America is Chan Dor 1 2 . Any other claims are not truthful."

Of course Bak Mei is considered a Hakka Fist.

[diego]

We know Hung Ga used to be like wing chun small frame but with the tiger shape and then it mixed with white crane becoming the forms popular from HK...so like before Cheung Lai Chuen's time what families were the main holders of hakka small frame Pheonix Eye fist shadowboxings? I got the scoop on CLC from my school. I'm curious what his cousins were up to, just like the historical popular fitness ideas prevalent within the Hakka populated regions of Asia.

BM doesn't like to use hard power too much as it causes arthritis... That's idea #1 lol

[5thBrother]

Check out the Southern Praying Mantis Forums for more info:

http://www.tonglong.co.uk/forum/

Check out http://www.ozmaforums.com for Aussie Tong Long info ... Although i Think they link to the SPM Forums but yeah....

[Faruq]

Originally Posted by 5thBrother

Check out the Southern Praying Mantis Forums for more info:

http://www.tonglong.co.uk/forum/

Check out http://www.ozmaforums.com for Aussie Tong Long info ... Although i Think they link to the SPM Forums but yeah....

Are there Bak Mei forums somewhere on the net too?

[LaterthanNever]

Where to start. Well..lets see. Deigo..thanks for opening this up for discussion.

While I know that Chow Ga(s. praying mantis) is not the same as Jow Ga(GM Dean Chin,etc.), perhaps someone could answer the following for me?

1.) Do all styles of SPM have sets/applications with the Phoenix eye fist? If not all, which branches(Iron Ox, Jook Lum, which?) do?

2.) Is there anyone in the USA who teaches the SPM forms of the "Chukka" SPM style?(there was a book written by Master Mark Wiley and GM Cheong Cheng Leong which has those forms). I'm aware that GM Leong teaches in Malaysia but that is a bit far..

Thanks all.

Best,
LTN

[Mas Judt]

LTM - the Chuka Phoenix Eye Fist style from Malaysia is not South Mantis. It bears some superficial resemblance, perhaps somewhere down the line has some common roots, but it is something different.

I've talked to a number of Martial Art historians - they all tend to agree that the fundamentals of the various Hakka styles have their origins in the Dongguan region. Out of these peculiar methods, three systems gained fame - SPM, BM and LY.

From the stories I was told, all of these systems founders had some relation to each other - and the mythical origins are just that. The names of the various founders often have meaning within different 'secret society' or mythical code.

Now - I'm not the expert on this history, I'm just passing info on. I've heard multiple sources discuss this - both from the Bak Mei and SPM worlds...

[Mas Judt]

LTN - One more thing.

There is a 'Chuka SPM' style, but it is not found in Malaysia - it is found in the USA. Sifu Sammy Wong taught this method in Chicago. There are a few folks out in the Chicago area (Tony Blum, Joel Gunderson) and one in Ventura, Ca (Manny Rodriguez) - plus a few folks who prefer to be private.