A thought provoking Royal Dragon E-mail

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Hello all. I got this in my E-mail today, and it got me thinking about many things. I am still trying to gather my thoughts, but I would like your opinions on this. I am sure it is bound to get some reactions. Remember, the following is an E-mail I received, not one I wrote (Although I don't really disagree)


CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?

This is very interesting and we all need to read it from start to finish......... and send it on to anyone who will read it

Maybe this is why our American Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.....

Can a good Muslim be a good American?

This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.

The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon God of Arabia .

Religiously - no. . . . Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256) (Koran)

Scripturally - no. . . Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of
Islam and the Quran.

Geographically - no . . . Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - no. . . Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America , the great Satan.

Domestically - no. . . Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34)

Intellectually - no. . . Because he ca nnot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.


Philosophically - no. . . . Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no. . . . Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' the Christian's God is loving an d kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as the Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent
names.

Therefore after much study and deliberation.... Perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. - - - They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Americans.

Call it what you wish...it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future. The religious war is bigger than we know or understand. . ...

And Barack Hussein Obama, a Muslim, wants to be our President? You have GOT to be kidding!
Wake up America !

Obama even says if he wins the election, he will be sworn in on the Quran--- not a Bible!

Footnote: He was sworn in on the Quran for his current office and he refuses to pledge allegiance to the United States or put his hand over his heart when the National Anthem is played!!!
The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within.....Hello!!!! Having a Muslim president would seem to fit the bill! Would you trust this man with our national secrets?????

[Black Jack II]

False.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

The guy is a empty suit, more a cult than a man, and he sure as hell is not getting my vote but that is a internet rambling.

[Mook Jong]

If you puritanically follow what the bible, torah or quran say, you will not be able to peacfully interact with others, let alone what is considered a sin. Just curious, how many christians don't eat meat on fridays these days? That entire thing is just racist and a misinterpretation of religion.

[doug maverick]

from someone who grew up with muslims. let me tell you thats bull****. any body can be a good american.

[Vash]

Originally Posted by doug maverick

from someone who grew up with muslims. let me tell you thats bull****. any body can be a good american.

Except the Dutch.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I think the artical brings up some interesting points though.

From a strict, technical stand point, You can't hold 100% true to the Muslim religion, and America ideals at the same time.

That said, how many Muslims adhear to strict Muslim religious requirements?

Is it necessary to water down religious purity so that one can function well within a large mixed society? If so, is religion itself becoming outdated?

[Mook Jong]

I would say that the judeo-christian tradition is outdated, it doesn't provide for any room for change if adhered to strictly, just my opinion not trying to cause conflict here. Christianity, if strictly followed, is incredibly limiting, forbidding you from interacting with people of other religions, ****sexuals or anyone who generally goes against what the church tells you. And what exactly are "American Ideals"? Wanting the best for your family? Being an active member of the community?

[Shaolinlueb]

my sihing is a african american muslim and he is a great guy, loves this country and became a federal agent.

[SifuAbel]

Originally Posted by Mook Jong

If you puritanically follow what the bible, torah or quran say, you will not be able to peacfully interact with others, let alone what is considered a sin. Just curious, how many christians don't eat meat on fridays these days? That entire thing is just racist and a misinterpretation of religion.

The true irony is that the very people we look down upon as backward, stone aged, sheep herders are the very people that brought us what religions call "the truth".

When are "we" as a people globally going to realize that what we are trying to hold on to in these religions are a bunch of desert prejudices. The Bible, Torah and Koran all deal with the subjective moralities of their time. Many of which have no place in modern times. If you were to take out only the moments that count, the moments when the spirit is truly part of the story and put them together, the texts would be significantly smaller. In reality that is what really counts, the moments of power when something greater than ourselves turns all matter and reality on its ear. The rest is just ass gas.

And this Obama/muslim hysteria is ridiculous. I'm sorry, but its a knee jerk.

Spirituality evolves, let it happen.

[monji112000]

Originally Posted by SifuAbel

The true irony is that the very people we look down upon as backward, stone aged, sheep herders are the very people that brought us what religions call "the truth".

When are "we" as a people globally going to realize that what we are trying to hold on to in these religions are a bunch of desert prejudices. The Bible, Torah and Koran all deal with the subjective moralities of their time. Many of which have no place in modern times. If you were to take out only the moments that count, the moments when the spirit is truly part of the story and put them together, the texts would be significantly smaller. In reality that is what really counts, the moments of power when something greater than ourselves turns all matter and reality on its ear. The rest is just ass gas.

And this Obama/muslim hysteria is ridiculous. I'm sorry, but its a knee jerk.

Spirituality evolves, let it happen.

spirituality is a nice feeling but nothing worth anything comes out of it. Without a structure and a ultimate reason/law/god logic ... circumstance can turn a monk into hilter. The problem with "religion" isn't the religion its the people. The people who interpret the religion, and the people who follow the religion. All morals are subjective. The fact is that most religions and cultures share a core set of morals (or a similar core set). I would rather trust someone with my life that is a "religious" person than someone who has no religion. Why not steal if you can't get in trouble? why not do (insert something "wrong") if you feel its deserved.

what does it mean to be a good American? serve your country? how many politicians serve? their kids? Follow the laws? How many politicians really follow all the laws? WTF is a good American? Who is a good American?

most religious people are the most peaceful people you will ever meet. All in all its very odd that someone who isn't Muslim to still call himself Barack Hussein Obama.
You won't find any converted jews with that name. Jesus and Mohamed are also names people tend to change when they convert.

personally I'm more worried about his policies, not what god he prays too. Does anyone really think the next president is going to be a young black man named Barack Hussein Obama... what next a lesbian native American president? Is America that liberal?

Do the smart choice vote none of the above!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LPdTXRjIKQ

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I think most major religions promote intolerance for those outside thier belife system.

I think back in a time when man was growing to large in numbers to the point where primitive tribalism was falling part, religion was able to step in and enlarge the scope and keep it unified.

However, we are increasingly in a more and more global world, and tolerance of other's belifes, customs and cultures is the only way we can peacefully coexist into the future.

This means less, and less adherence to much of religious intolerance, and conflict generating rules needs to go the way of the dinosaurs in my opinion.


I really like the Wiccan guiding principals. they don't have 10 commandments, they have only one:

"Do as you will, but cause no harm"

[Drake]

Once early christians skinned a "heretic" alive with seashells.

Last I checked, Leviticus had some pretty harsh guidelines for dealing with different people.

And for crying out loud, Obama isn't a muslim. If we don't want the world seeing us as backwater rednecks, we should probably stop acting the part.

[SifuAbel]

Originally Posted by monji112000

spirituality is a nice feeling but nothing worth anything comes out of it. Without a structure and a ultimate reason/law/god logic ... circumstance can turn a monk into hilter. The problem with "religion" isn't the religion its the people. The people who interpret the religion, and the people who follow the religion. All morals are subjective. The fact is that most religions and cultures share a core set of morals (or a similar core set). I would rather trust someone with my life that is a "religious" person than someone who has no religion. Why not steal if you can't get in trouble? why not do (insert something "wrong") if you feel its deserved.

More harm has been done in the name of religion than for any other purpose. Don't confuse the meetings with the prime mover with bogus hippie kisses from a heaven's gate flower child. People created the religions. Jesus never said, "hey, go out and tear people to pieces if they don't say uncle and join your frat." It was the damned insipidly stupid people that came afterwards that decided it was a good idea to pad the books, so to speak. The failure of mankind has always been to place himself in the role of the god. To arrogantly assume authority over others in the name of something that transcends all human experience. To say spirituality is just a nice feeling totally bypasses the point. We are not humans having a spiritual experience, we are spirits having a human experience. The rest of it is as arbitrary as children making up rules as they go along for a game they haven't quite figured out yet.

A person is sensible and can generally find the cool way to live most times. People on the other hand are crude, panicky, stupid and scared. Religion was created to control the mob. BTW, A monk has already turned into a Hitler. His name was Torquemada. And he killed with the backing of the Vatican.

Originally Posted by monji112000

what does it mean to be a good American? serve your country? how many politicians serve? their kids? Follow the laws? How many politicians really follow all the laws? WTF is a good American? Who is a good American?

William Shatner........oh wait......he's canadian, never mind.

Originally Posted by monji112000

most religious people are the most peaceful people you will ever meet. All in all its very odd that someone who isn't Muslim to still call himself Barack Hussein Obama.
You won't find any converted jews with that name. Jesus and Mohamed are also names people tend to change when they convert.

A Rose by any other name......

Originally Posted by monji112000

personally I'm more worried about his policies, not what god he prays too. Does anyone really think the next president is going to be a young black man named Barack Hussein Obama... what next a lesbian native American president? Is America that liberal?

Worry about his policies. Thats the only correct way to view this. Everything else is just knee jerk mishegoss. BTW, he's a democrat. Not a whole lot to discover, really. He isn't a monster sent from planet mongo, a Muslim plot to kill America, or a sleeper from a communist soviet program. Its just beyond belief how people are reaching for any piece of straw. People are rallying to him because he represents a fresh start. People are disgusted with the present administration AND they don't quite want to go back to another Clinton era either.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Individuals get along just fine, regardless of religion or race, the issues arise when we deal with groups.

[Black Jack II]

Once early christians skinned a "heretic" alive with seashells.

Once, as in a very long time ago.

Last I checked Christians did not have a thousand and one beheading video's floating around internet. Don't even try and compare the violence of Islam with Christianity....well unless your high and want to talk out your a$$.

Can Muslim's be good American's, if you love your country then yes, but you sure as hell don't see a lot of Muslim's talking out about what their country is doing, call it what you will, but Islam is a sick and twisted dogma if there ever was one.