Info Please?

[Minghequan]

Does anybody have any information concerning Mr. Jamie Scuffell (Lu Lu Ke) of Townsville QLD (Australia). He claims to be an inheritor of Flying Crane and to claims to be a lineage holder of the Shen Zhao Pai Fujian White Crane (Feihequan = Flying Crane) under a Master Lui Hong Shen (1923 -2002). He also claims to teach Tai Chi, Wing Chun, Tai Zhu and Northern and Southern Wushu.

He now claims to teach "Shaking Crane" as part of his “Shen Jao Pai Athletic Association”.

One "Grandmaster Leeroy W. Epperson III" states that Jamie Scuffell was a member of his World Combat Arts Federation but cannot supply his certification as same were destroyed in a computer crash two years ago. One “Grandmaster Edgar Livingston” states that Scuffell learnt via video!

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[SifuAbel]

Oh for jebus sakes, get bent!!!!

[Minghequan]

Hi Sifu Abel, (That is your name I guess?)

As for getting bent I'm already there mate (My wife says I'm "Kinky") LOL.

As for my identity well I'm not hiding it and anyone who wanted to find out need only click on my web site link but I'll make it easy for you mate, my name is Ron Goninan, an old, grey haired guy into martial arts!

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Do you have his contact info? I lost his number some time ago, and I can't get a hold of him.

As for Livingston, It's more ,like Jamie sent HIM video of his Tai Tzu. He never learned anything from Livingston during the time they were communicating, by video or otherwise. Jamie's Tai Tzu comes from several other sources prior to his temporarily being connected to Livingston.

I think Shen Zhao Pai is the name of HIS organization. He's not the inheritor, he's the founder. I think it is named after his late Tai Tzu teacher in honor of him.

[Minghequan]

Royal Dragon,

Thanks for the reply. Do you know anything about Scuffell's claim to be a White Crane instructor? I will see if I can get you his contact info.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

All I know is that he started out doing Northern and Southern Tai Tzu originally. When he went as far as he could there he began with Tai Tzu Crane (totally unrelated to Tai Tzu Quan), and continued to explored from there.

The reason he chose Tai Tzu crane is that it is built on similar technology to his Southern Tai tzu. He dropped everything else he was doing and focused on that only. This was a good number of years ago, he should be pretty darn experienced in the system by now.

He sent me a video of the Sanzhen like set they do in his White crane and showed all the body mechanics and details of the style's body methods. He clearly has a firm grasp on the systems inner details, so he must have had a good teacher.

Last I heard he handed his school to his seniors and was only teaching to his inner door disciples. I lost contact with him shortly after that.

I appreciate any help in contacting him. Even if it's through one of his seniors or one of thier schools.


NOTE} Tai Tzu crane is not related to Northern, or Southern Tai Tzu Quan. In this case the words "Tai Tzu" mean "Ancestral" and are not related to the arts of Emperor Sung Tai Tzu.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

His Tai Chi is Zhao style from Taiwan, and I think he learned his Wing Chun very early in his martial career.

Jamie has been doing martial arts in one form or another his whole life. He's got quite a bit of experience in all the previously mentioned systems, as well as a couple others that I am not privy to discuss without his permission.

[Minghequan]

Royal Dragon,

Thank you for your responses.

May I please ask how you know all this about Mr. Scuffell? Did you train with him?

Have you personally seen his certificates in Tai Zhu, Wing Chun and White Crane or is it only based on his say so in past communications with you?

How do you know he has been doing martial arts his whole life? Have you trained alongside of him?

Why does he claim to teach the Australian Military and to be their official instructor when no-one connected to the Townsville Army knows of him?

I think Shen Zhao Pai is the name of HIS organization. He's not the inheritor, he's the founder. I think it is named after his late Tai Tzu teacher in honor of him.

Why does he claim to be a "inheritor" of this Shen Zhao Pai when you say he is the "founder?". Jamie stated to me in person that he was the "Inheritor" and I have his so-called lineage chart for same in my hands.

Why would he name a "White Crane" style after a Tai Zhu teacher?

Why does no one (and I mean NO-ONE) in the traditional White Crane community know of Scuffell?

He sent me a video of the Sanzhen like set they do in his White crane and showed all the body mechanics and details of the style's body methods. He clearly has a firm grasp on the systems inner details, so he must have had a good teacher.

With all due respect to you and your own training but what experience have you had in traditional White Crane?

Why do people like Edgar Livingston, David Kash and Leeroy W. Epperson III say that he only ever learnt form video and has no knowledge of White Crane. I have communicated with all of these individuals and they all say the same thing, how can this be? Surely they all can't be making it all up?

I have video which I personally filmed of Scuffell demonstrating so called White Crane. He stuffed up the basic form three times in a row before eventually going through the form which is a *******ized rip-off of the forms taught by one Sifu Dong Mu-Yao and available all over the Internet for anyone who wants to search them out. Most of what he taught of "White Crane" was ripped off Wing Chun and then he stood around chain smoking while his students demonstrated .

I am after actual hands-on proof of his claims not his say so.

If you have hard, factual proof of his claims then I would be happy to see it.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Royal Dragon,

Thank you for your responses.

May I please ask how you know all this about Mr. Scuffell? Did you train with him?

Reply]
No, we became associates becasue we are both Tai Tzu practitioners.

Have you personally seen his certificates in Tai Zhu, Wing Chun and White Crane or is it only based on his say so in past communications with you?

Reply]
Well, it's more like this, I have had numerous contacts with him via phone, and E-mail over the last 10 years or so. Every time he and I have had discussions he allways demonstrated direct *Working* knowledge of the styles he was talking about. You just can't get that if you are a fake.

How do you know he has been doing martial arts his whole life? Have you trained alongside of him?

Reply]
No, this is based off of many conversations I have had with him over the years. The guy just knows too many things, too correctly, and can articulate his knowledge in too much deep detail to have not been training as long as he claims.


Why does he claim to teach the Australian Military and to be their official instructor when no-one connected to the Townsville Army knows of him?

Reply]
You probably have not spoken to the right people. I have video footage of him teaching *On Base*. In the footage he was teaching Tai Tzu, and Wing Chun techniques to uniformed soldiers. One segment he is showing disarmed soldiers how to defend in close quarters combat against opponents armed with Military rifles. These are not toys, but the standard military rifles issued to soldiers by your own military....can't fake that if you are just a civilian. Even if you wanted to fake it, how would you be able to get together that many guys, ALL armed with Military rifles if you were just a civilian? Are military issue rifles commonly found amongst civilians in your country?



Quote:
I think Shen Zhao Pai is the name of HIS organization. He's not the inheritor, he's the founder. I think it is named after his late Tai Tzu teacher in honor of him.
Why does he claim to be a "inheritor" of this Shen Zhao Pai when you say he is the "founder?". Jamie stated to me in person that he was the "Inheritor" and I have his so-called lineage chart for same in my hands.

Why would he name a "White Crane" style after a Tai Zhu teacher?

Reply]
No, no, you misunderstand. Tai Tzu Crane is a really, really, really old style. Jamie did not name it. He named his SCHOOL after his old teacher, NOT the style he teaches. It's the same as my school being named "Royal Dragon School of Mind and Body". There is no such style as "Royal Dragon" style. It is the name of my club, same as "Shen Zhao Pai" is the name of his *School*.

Why does no one (and I mean NO-ONE) in the traditional White Crane community know of Scuffell?

Reply]
Again, you are not talking to the right people. There are a lot of Tai Tzu people that don't know me either, but there are a lot that do too. Also, being a White Cran practitioner yourself, you surely must know how closed door those guys are. It's doubtfull you would be told if you were not *In* the family.

Quote:
He sent me a video of the Sanzhen like set they do in his White crane and showed all the body mechanics and details of the style's body methods. He clearly has a firm grasp on the systems inner details, so he must have had a good teacher.
With all due respect to you and your own training but what experience have you had in traditional White Crane?

Reply]
I have known guys in the system over the years. I have seen enough of it in person to know what it looks like, and what the details are. It's easy when you have studied a system based on the style's mechanics.

Why do people like Edgar Livingston, David Kash and Leeroy W. Epperson III say that he only ever learnt form video and has no knowledge of White Crane. I have communicated with all of these individuals and they all say the same thing, how can this be? Surely they all can't be making it all up?

Reply]
David Kash, and Edgar Livingston are the least credible people in the world to go to if you want to verify Jamie's claims. Same with the other guy. All of them live in the USA. Jamie lives in Townsville Australia, half a world away. He has never had anything more than associate contact with any of them, ever. They have no clue as to what he has really done, or not done.


I have video which I personally filmed of Scuffell demonstrating so called White Crane. He stuffed up the basic form three times in a row before eventually going through the form which is a *******ized rip-off of the forms taught by one Sifu Dong Mu-Yao and available all over the Internet for anyone who wants to search them out. Most of what he taught of "White Crane" was ripped off Wing Chun and then he stood around chain smoking while his students demonstrated .

Reply]
Then don't learn from him if you don't like his teaching style. Also, I have hours, and hours, and hours of footage of him training his senior students. *ALL* of them are highly skilled in the styles he is teaching....they didn't get that way in a vacuum.

I am after actual hands-on proof of his claims not his say so.

Reply]
Cross hands with him then. Jamie is a fighter, I am sure he would be more than happy to let you test him.



If you have hard, factual proof of his claims then I would be happy to see it.

Reply]
Only thing I could show is video, and I'd have to ask him permission first. since I lost his contact info, I will have to wait untill he contacts me again...unless you can provide me with his number, or the number of one of his seniors.

[Minghequan]

Royal Dragon (Gian),

I don't wish to nit pick but several of your arguments just don't hold water.

No, we became associates becasue we are both Tai Tzu practitioners.

Who certified Scuffle as a Tai Zhu practitioner? Have you actually seen his certification as actual proof of his claims?

Well, it's more like this, I have had numerous contacts with him via phone, and E-mail over the last 10 years or so. Every time he and I have had discussions he allways demonstrated direct *Working* knowledge of the styles he was talking about. You just can't get that if you are a fake.

Correct me if I'm wrong but what you are saying is that you have only his own emails and phone calls and some video tape to go on? Hardly conclusive proof of his knowledge or accurate certification in the arts! With a little "googling" on the Internet anyone can sound like they have a so-called "Working" knowledge of a system. You only have his "word" to go on. Hardly factual proof!

No, this is based off of many conversations I have had with him over the years. The guy just knows too many things, too correctly, and can articulate his knowledge in too much deep detail to have not been training as long as he claims.

See the above, again, hardly concrete proof of his actual status.

You probably have not spoken to the right people. I have video footage of him teaching *On Base*. In the footage he was teaching Tai Tzu, and Wing Chun techniques to uniformed soldiers. One segment he is showing disarmed soldiers how to defend in close quarters combat against opponents armed with Military rifles. These are not toys, but the standard military rifles issued to soldiers by your own military....can't fake that if you are just a civilian. Even if you wanted to fake it, how would you be able to get together that many guys, ALL armed with Military rifles if you were just a civilian? Are military issue rifles commonly found amongst civilians in your country?

Sorry but I actually talked to the officer in charge of the training (combatives) for the Townsville Army base. Scuffell may well have held one seminar with guys wearing Combat fatigues but this does not make an army trainer! Sorry but the ADF (Australian Defence Force) DENIES without any doubt whatsoever any relation with Scuffell as an army Combat or self-defence instructor. The ADF has its own commissioned officers who provide their instruction. They do NOT hire out to outside persons. Contact the Townsville ADF for yourself to find out the truth.

No, no, you misunderstand. Tai Tzu Crane is a really, really, really old style. Jamie did not name it. He named his SCHOOL after his old teacher, NOT the style he teaches. It's the same as my school being named "Royal Dragon School of Mind and Body". There is no such style as "Royal Dragon" style. It is the name of my club, same as "Shen Zhao Pai" is the name of his *School*.

Sorry again but Scuffell told me face to face that he named his school after his so-called "White Crane" teacher, the mysterious and unverifiable "Lui Hong Shen". I did not misunderstand him and have several reliable witnesses to what he actually stated as well as a copy in full of Scuffell's so called "lineage" which Scuffell himself gave to me If anything, you have been misled by Scuffell.

Again, you are not talking to the right people. There are a lot of Tai Tzu people that don't know me either, but there are a lot that do too. Also, being a White Cran practitioner yourself, you surely must know how closed door those guys are. It's doubtfull you would be told if you were not *In* the family.

Sorry again but you are mistaken. Who are the so-called "right people" in White Crane that I should be talking to in relation to Scuffell's claims? White Crane is a Closed Door art. I know as I am inside the "Closed Door" hence my knowing of the right people to talk to. They don't like people claiming to be White Crane if they are not! I talked to Feihequan (Flying Crane ) people as this is the art Scuffell claimed to be teaching and guess what .... surprise! They did not know of him either. I have talked to my connections direct in Fuzhou China and lo and behold, they too have never heard of him. In FACT, no-one in the White Crane community has heard of Scuffell or his so-called unverifiable instructor Lui Hong Shen! Are you saying the people I contacted are all liars?

David Kash, and Edgar Livingston are the least credible people in the world to go to if you want to verify Jamie's claims. Same with the other guy. All of them live in the USA. Jamie lives in Townsville Australia, half a world away. He has never had anything more than associate contact with any of them, ever. They have no clue as to what he has really done, or not done.

They may say the same about you. However you are not the subject here, Scuffell is. And they both claim that he is only someone who learned via video and not to a very good level! They have his video of his so-called Tai Zhu etc and were not impressed. They may or may not be credible but Scuffell was associated with them and WAS learning from them via video.

Then don't learn from him if you don't like his teaching style. Also, I have hours, and hours, and hours of footage of him training his senior students. *ALL* of them are highly skilled in the styles he is teaching....they didn't get that way in a vacuum.

Sorry again. I have met Scuffell personally. Questioned him. Seen him stuff up his form three times in a row and I have it all on video. I met two of his students both of whom were nice guys and much, much better in skill than Scuffell was! This is Fact. I have no desire to train under him in his mix-match of so-called "White Crane, "Wing Chun" and "Tai Zhu"

Cross hands with him then. Jamie is a fighter, I am sure he would be more than happy to let you test him.

LOL No thanks,. You see I am secure in my art of White Crane, my lineage, my teacher (Who BTW is well known and respected in the White Crane community). And how in the blue hell do you know that Scuffell is a "fighter?" You have only read a few of his emails, talked to him on the phone and seen a few videos! Hardly solid proof of his prowess! I have talked to well respected martial artists in Towsnville and they all say the same things about Him. They can't all be wrong now can they!

Only thing I could show is video, and I'd have to ask him permission first. since I lost his contact info, I will have to wait untill he contacts me again...unless you can provide me with his number, or the number of one of his seniors.

Keep the videos. I don't need to see them. I have enough of Scuffell on video to know what he's really like. As I said I will try to find a contact for him for you.

Gian, I have named names and given you straight up information. I have not made any of this up....... I have no need to .... I have nothing to gain in this other than I feel that Scuffell is misrepresenting the art of White Crane via his claims. Can you give me any actual hard, solid, locked in concrete PROOF that Scuffell is what he says he is other than a few emails, phone calls, videos and say so. Of course he's not going to tell you he made it all up now is he! Please give me some real and verifiable proof or contacts.

He also goes by the names "Lu Lu Ke" and "Wei Guo Hao" .... WTF!

Best wishes!

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I don't wish to nit pick but several of your arguments just don't hold water.

Quote:
No, we became associates becasue we are both Tai Tzu practitioners.
Who certified Scuffle as a Tai Zhu practitioner? Have you actually seen his certification as actual proof of his claims?

Reply]
I didn't have to see a certification (and I have never asked and don't plan to), I have him, and his students on tape showing thier stuff. They ALL are very good, and technically correct. No piece of paper can change that. You have been around long enough to know that just becasue someone has a certification, does not mean they know their style. Proof is in the skills them selves, and Jamie and hi students have that in abundance.

Quote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but what you are saying is that you have only his own emails and phone calls and some video tape to go on? Hardly conclusive proof of his knowledge or accurate certification in the arts! With a little "googling" on the Internet anyone can sound like they have a so-called "Working" knowledge of a system. You only have is "word" to go on. Hardly factual proof!

Reply]
Not really. Anyone can pick up a "Form" from video, but to get the inner workings of them, you really do need a good teacher. In the video I have of him, he is clearly showing solid understandings of the inner workings.



Quote:
No, this is based off of many conversations I have had with him over the years. The guy just knows too many things, too correctly, and can articulate his knowledge in too much deep detail to have not been training as long as he claims.
See the above, again, hardly concrete proof of his actual status.

Reply]
Actually, it is DEFINITIVE proof he's the real deal. You can actually *See* he's got the goods. It's much more accurate than some certificate that could even be bought.

Quote:

Sorry but I actually talked to the officer in charge of the training (combatives) for the Townsville Army base. Scuffell may well have held one seminar with guys wearing Combat fatigues but this does not make an army trainer! Sorry but the ADF (Australian Defence Force) DENIES without any doubt whatsoever any relation with Scuffell as an army Combat or self-defence instructor. The ADF has its own commissioned officers who provide their instruction. They do NOT hire out to outside persons. Contact the Townsville ADF for yourself to find out the truth.

Reply]
I think Jamie was actually in the military at the time...he wasn't an outside trainer.

Quote:
"Shen Zhao Pai" is the name of his *School*.
Sorry again but Scuffell told me face to face that he named his school after his so-called "White Crane" teacher, the mysterious and unverifiable "Lui Hong Shen".

Reply]
He told me that was his Tai Tzu teacher. He has passed on years ago.

I did not misunderstand him and have several reliable witnesses to what he actually stated as well as a copy in full of Scuffell's so called "lineage" which Scuffell himself gave to me (it's a rip-off of a lineage chart belong to a well known martial historian with Scuffell's name and so-called lineage neatly added! If anything, you have been misled by Scuffell.

Reply]
Well, if you have his lineage, contact the people he learned from on the chart.

Quote:
Again, you are not talking to the right people. There are a lot of Tai Tzu people that don't know me either, but there are a lot that do too. Also, being a White Cran practitioner yourself, you surely must know how closed door those guys are. It's doubtfull you would be told if you were not *In* the family.
Sorry again but you are mistaken. Who are the so-called "right people" in White Crane that I should be talking to in relation to Scuffell's claims? White Crane is a Closed Door art. I know as I am inside the "Closed Door" hence my knowing of the right people to talk to. They don't like people claiming to be White Crane if they are not! I have talked to Dong Mu-Yau's people as they are the ones whose forms Scuffell ripped off and they have never ever heard of the guy.

Reply]
How do you know he ripped off those forms? Maybe he was taught them from another branch of the line that you are not aware of. Again, you do have his lineage chart, contact his teachers.

Also, I have some of my best material from a certain top level, highly respected internal lineage, but if you go to the head of it he would never know who I am becasue I learned the knowledge from one of his seniors informally at his home.

No one but me and that senior know. You would have to go through an astronomical effort to track down EVERY senior this master ever taught, find their personal info, and contact them asking about me. Most don't have schools, so you would be looking for thier home phone numbers....good luck finding that. Just asking the Grand Master would get you nowhere as he is not even aware this training occurred.


I talked to Feihequan (Flying Crane ) people as this is the art Scuffell claimed to be teaching and guess what .... surprise! They did not know of him either. I have talked to my connections direct in Fuzhou China and lo and behold, they too have never heard of him. In FACT, no-one in the White Crane community has heard of Scuffell


Reply]
See my reply above....

or his so-called unverifiable instructor Lui Hong Shen! Are you saying the people I contacted are all liars?

Reply]
Liu Hong Shen was his *Tai Tzu* teacher. Of course they would not have heard of him!!!

Quote:
David Kash, and Edgar Livingston are the least credible people in the world to go to if you want to verify Jamie's claims. Same with the other guy. All of them live in the USA. Jamie lives in Townsville Australia, half a world away. He has never had anything more than associate contact with any of them, ever. They have no clue as to what he has really done, or not done.
They may say the same about you.

Reply]
They do say the same thing about me....you know this becasue you contacted them when we had that big fight with each other last year, which is just further proof of how little they know about anything outside of thier own little, minuscule world.(I broke relations with Livingston over that for misrepresenting me btw)

However you are not the subject here, Scuffell is. And they both claim that he is only someone who learned via video and not to a very good level! They have his video of his so-called Tai Zhu etc and were not impressed. They may or may not be credible but Scuffell was associated with them and WAS learning from them via video.

Reply]
Those guys all exchanged video's when they were associated with one another. No one learned anything from them. I was part of that at the time. Jamie got videos of me too, but I highly doubt he tried to do anything I gave him.

It was just an exchange to see the systems that each was doing.

Quote:
Then don't learn from him if you don't like his teaching style. Also, I have hours, and hours, and hours of footage of him training his senior students. *ALL* of them are highly skilled in the styles he is teaching....they didn't get that way in a vacuum.
Sorry again. I have met Scuffell personally. Questioned him. Seen him stuff up his form three times in a row and I have it all on video. I met two of his students both of whom were nice guys and much, much better in skill than Scuffell was!

Reply]
That right there says it all. You know a teacher by his students. If they have the skill, then he is legit. You just answered all your own questions.

This is Fact. I have no desire to train under him in his mix-match of so-called "White Crane, "Wing Chun" and "Tai Zhu"

Reply]
Then don't.



Gian, I have named names and given you straight up information. I have not made any of this up....... I have no need to .... I have nothing to gain in this other than the plain simple truth that Scuffell is grossly misrepresenting the art of White Crane via is outrageous claims. Can you give me any actual hard, solid, locked in concrete PROOF that Scuffell is what he says he is other than a few emails , phone calls, videos and say so. Of course he's not going to tell you he made it all up now is he! Please give me some real and verifiable proof or contacts.

Reply]
Ok, First off we are not talking just a few E-mails, we are talking 10 years of communication.

Second, I don't care what he claims, he shows verbally he knows what he is doing, and in the videos he sent me he clearly shows the body knowledge.

And Thirdly, YOU yourself say his students are skilled...which means he HAS to be legit or they would suck, since he is the source of thier skill. Remember, you know the teacher, by the student. Everything you need to know, you already have.

RD

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

He also goes by the names "Lu Lu Ke" and "Wei Guo Hao" .... WTF!

Reply]
Someone with your experience knows very well inner door students often take on Chinese names when they Bai si

[golden arhat]

Originally Posted by Minghequan

Royal Dragon (Gian),





Who certified Scuffle as a Tai Zhu practitioner? Have you actually seen his certification as actual proof of his claims?

i'm an mma guy

would you like to see a piece of paper tha certifies in fact that i am a mixed martial artist

there isnt a piece of paper that qualifies you as some thing or another
these are all just western inventions etc

do you really think that the grand masters throughout the centurys all had bits of paper to certify them as "masters" ?




oh


and umm why do you care about any of this anwyay ?

odds are alot of what all three of you are doing doesnt work very well anyway




-fred

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

there isnt a piece of paper that qualifies you as some thing or another
these are all just western inventions etc

do you really think that the grand masters throughout the centurys all had bits of paper to certify them as "masters" ?


Reply]
Forms were originally created to be the certificates. That is why they were ONLY taught last, to those who mastered the whole system and could fight with it.

[Minghequan]

Gaian,

Man you must spend some time on the net! Today is my day off (I'm a Security Operative) so I am surfing the net and kicking back.

To answer you would take forever so I will do a blanket answer here.

Scuffell's two students were okay. Much better than him. But they had trained in other arts with other teachers so this is no proof at all of Scuffell's so-so skills. They were simply people who picked up the martial arts well. I am (modestly) one of those type of people. There are a few of us out there you know!

Scuffell's actual skills were mediocre to say the best. He was off balance, static and robotic and well it was basically unflattering to watch him!

As for contact people, I have and they all say that they have never heard of him. Go figure!

As for him being in the military .... ah that would be a big NO!

Shen Zhao Pai was and is his name for his so-called "White Crane" Pai as you are well aware refers to a particular clan. You yourself stated that Scuffle's "Pai" was in Tai Zhu not Fuzhou White Crane.

To save being long-wined here, the sad TRUTH is that you cannot verify his claims in ant valid and accurate way other than email, phone and a video.

FACT: Scuffell does NOT do or teach Fuzhou White Crane. This is verifiable\

FACT: He is NOT recognised by anybody within the White Crane community.This is verifiable

FACT: He learnt from Video, a malaise which seems to effect modern martial arts as everyone is "learning" from video. This is verifiable

FACT: No one can provide any info on his teacher "Lui Hong Shen" be it in White Crane or Tai Zhu.

FACT: His Lineage chart is a cut and paste job and not verifiable and it also stated that "Liu Hong Shen" (Oh Great Mysterious One!) actually taught Baihequan (look it up) which is last time I looked WHITE CRANE and NOT TAI ZHU!

FACT: The Lineage chart also states that the art of the Great and Mysterious (Tongue planted firmly in cheek) "Liu Hong Shen" is a instructor of Feihequan or Flying Crane-Fist ... Yep thats Right, "Flying Crane-Fist" and not Tai Zhu as you have claimed!


FACT: No one has chimed in to support your claims and you cannot provide any actual verifiable factual evidence to back up what you say was "told" to you by Scuffell!

None of your argument is based in actual Fact! All you seem to be doing is hammering in more virtual nails into Scuffell's coffin!
Need I say more?