self defense vs fighting, different or same?

[Shaolinlueb]

as you can see there is much arguement lately on here.

mma guys "we fight so we are better"

cma guys "we train self defense"

so what is the diffrerence if any do you see? or do you think it is the same?

obviously i think there is a difference. fighting is going at it expecting certain stuff to happen.

self defense is out of the blue, unexpected and you are forced to react hopefully taking the opponent down in 3 moves or less.

i dont want this to be mma vs cma its fighting vs self defense.

[SixStringFist]

MMA or CMA is about more than fighting/self-defense arguments.

I've said a couple of times that I train CMA for a variety of reasons. While self-defense is on the list, it certainly isn't the only item, and I'd like to believe that most of the people who train CMA are in that same boat. Flexibility, health, discipline, fun, and tradition are other items on my list. Think about it and I'm sure you can come up with dozens of other reasons for yourself.

Similarly, I believe that MMA people train for self-defense, flexibility, health, discipline, competitive spirit, etc. It simply isn't a split down the middle of training for a fight and training for self-defense.

With that said, there certainly is a difference between fighting professionally and defending oneself from harm, although I don't think you quite hit the nail on the head with your definitions. When training to fight professionally, there is a lot of emphasis on conditioning because let's face it: if you run out of gas before the other guy, you lose. Also, the other guy is a trained fighter, so odds are his conditioning allows him to fight the same 15 minutes you fight.

However, rare is the street fight that lasts for 5 minutes, let alone 15. If you're training to defend yourself from a blind-side attack or a bar altercation, then yeah, you want to end the fight as fast as possible in order to get away or call for help before you or someone else gets hurt, possibly killed. The possibility of death exists in a professional fight (I've heard arguments to the contrary, but the possibility is there), but its obviously neither expected nor encouraged. The possibility is much greater in a street fight, where your opponent, or several of his friends, may be armed.

MMA guys train to use their abilities as frequently as possible in a professional setting, and have it be more effective than the other guy's training. It's my hope that I never use my Kung Fu. Ever. Not because its "teh de4dly", but because I hope that the training I receive allows me to recognize a bad situation before it happens and remove myself from the scenario.

[bodhitree]

Self defense involves much more than fighting. Being able to fight doesn't stop 4 or 5 people from beating you down, no matter what Jet Li can do in the movies. Violence in real life rarely happens in a fair manner, no matter if you're trained in TMA or MMA if you're hit in the head with a bat from behind you're going down.

Self defense= smart choices, awareness, limiting risky behavior, etc etc etc.

[Charles T Rose]

Self defense is not mutually agreed combat AKA a duel.MMA matches and ego driven bar fights are duels. Self defense is when you are being attacked and your response could be as simple a pushing your attacker down and running away.

[djcaldwell]

There is a difference between pro and street fights by all means. However, it depends on what perspective you are looking at this from. If a training and skill perspective than regardless if it’s CMA or MMA the person has the skills necessary to win a fight against a lesser skilled opponent. At that point it changes from skill to mental ability and/or intent. Many people train CMA or any TMA and lack the necessary intent when placed in a physical situation.

Regardless, if you are defending yourself or dueling (as it was referred to) there has to be intent to damage the other person be it to win the match or to buy yourself enough time to escape if necessary.

Also I do not agree that there is a true “fear of death” in a professional match. The statement that there is a possibility of death does not elicit the necessary “fear” that comes from an unsolicited confrontation on the street. There is a possibility of death crossing the street but no one “fears” it. When you are engaged in a street fight there is more than the possibility that you can be killed and this regardless of how small the fight is, remains in the back of your mind. In the ring, the thought of I may die here never enters your mind in the way that it would cause one to “fear for his life”. There is a tremendous difference.

With that, I feel that fighting is fighting regardless. The differences lay in the mental training and mental ability of the person being trained. Some people just don’t have it and are what I will refer to as “born victims” regardless of the situation they can not muster the mental ability to fight back regardless of the training they have. It’s just not in them. Others can train or be trained to work past the fear and develop that intent.

As was stated previously, self defense is more than just the fighting – it’s mental awareness, minding your surroundings and learning to avoid situations that place you in a danger. Fighting is fighting and often, fighters end up in situations where they can hit things because they are not looking to avoid but SMASH!!

Fighting is fighting, if you are exchanging blows, protecting yourself or dueling – it’s still fighting. The training and methods are what make it self-defense versus “sport”.

[bodhitree]

by definition fighting is not self defense-

Self defense may involve fighting back just to remove yourself from the situation, but fighting is not self defense.

[djcaldwell]

Originally Posted by bodhitree

by definition fighting is not self defense-

Self defense may involve fighting back just to remove yourself from the situation, but fighting is not self defense.

Semantics.

Legal definitition versus the actual physical requirements involved with an exchange be it defending yourself in the street or in the ring - consentual or not -fighting is still fighting.

I do agree that there is more to "self-defense" as I stated but when it comes to the physical nature of the beast to say that self-defense may require fighting in return demonstrates that "fighting is fighting".

[bodhitree]

Self defence is awareness, choices, the way you carry yourself, having escape routes, and many other things. Fighting is a VERY small part of self defence (unless you're in prison)

[lkfmdc]

Let's for a moment assume that most people are not being chased by outlaw motorcycle gangs or Chinese organized crime hitmen

Most "fights" involve pushing, shoving, big punches, rushing in, tackles, head locks and grabs

Who is more prepared for the wrestling aspect? Those who wrestle "alive" or those who practice pre-arranged techniques?

Who is more prepared for the big punches> Those who do boxing style drills, parrying and shielding against punches thrown real speed with power, or those who pracitce against pre-arrangd posed punches?

A lot of "self defense" has to do with how your body is going to react under the stress of the situation. 10 guys can learn the same technique, maybe 1 will pull it off on the street.

But here's the "catch", scientifically speaking, the body doesn't know the difference between stress induced in a classroom, the ring or the street. Intellectually you may know in a sanctioned match no one is going to "kill you" but your body doesnt' know that.

The more you compete, the more you deal with stress. The more you deal with stress, the more your body will know how to function under those circumstances. The more your body knows how to function under those circumstances, the greater the chance you'll be able to use your technique

Clearly, there are people who have never been in a ring who can fight, but they clearly are also "cool customers" under stress

[kidswarrior]

Originally Posted by SixStringFist

MMA or CMA is about more than fighting/self-defense arguments.

I've said a couple of times that I train CMA for a variety of reasons. While self-defense is on the list, it certainly isn't the only item, and I'd like to believe that most of the people who train CMA are in that same boat. Flexibility, health, discipline, fun, and tradition are other items on my list. Think about it and I'm sure you can come up with dozens of other reasons for yourself.

Similarly, I believe that MMA people train for self-defense, flexibility, health, discipline, competitive spirit, etc. It simply isn't a split down the middle of training for a fight and training for self-defense.

It's my hope that I never use my Kung Fu. Ever. Not because its "teh de4dly", but because I hope that the training I receive allows me to recognize a bad situation before it happens and remove myself from the scenario.

Well said, and representative of my view.

[Shadow Skill]

Originally Posted by djcaldwell

Fighting is fighting, if you are exchanging blows, protecting yourself or dueling – it’s still fighting. The training and methods are what make it self-defense versus “sport”.

you hit the nail on the head

[kidswarrior]

Originally Posted by bodhitree

Self defense= smart choices, awareness, limiting risky behavior, etc etc etc.

I agree. And when I've done all that, 99% of the time it keeps me safe. But there's always that 1% chance that keeping my nose clean still won't keep some idiot from attacking me. So, self defense also=good training. You probably intended your message to imply that, but just wanted to make it explicit.

[bodhitree]

I'm not saying don't train to fight, I train to fight, which could be bad for self defense (ex: ego making me fight rather than walk/run away)

[Merryprankster]

I agree with bodhitree.

Fighting is fighting. Period. Whether it's "MMA" or "CMA" or two guys with no training trading blows. Whether somebody is thinking about kicking another guy in the nuts or not.

Self-defense INCLUDES fighting, but is not limited to it. Self defense includes things like awareness of your surroundings, studying human "give aways," like posture, facial expressions, etc, understanding what is safe and what is not, de-escalation techniques, and a fair bit of psychology I would guess.

You could be great at self-defense and a lousy fighter. You could be a world-class fighter and lousy at self-defense.

To me, the MMA/CMA argument is a pointless one. It doesn't actually mean anything. The real issue is training. If you are training hard, and suit up and beat on each other on a regular frequent basis, you're probably going to be effective.

[Shaolinlueb]

fighting is fightind whether it be mma or cma. more to mma and cma then fighting, yes.

but those werent the questions. its whats the difference between those two. there are a lot of good answers in here.