WC's bread & butter techniques

[Shadowboxer]

I was wondering what WC's "bread and butter" techniques are? What techniques are "high percentage" as MP would say. If, because of adrenaline dump and other stressful factors when you are fighting--not sparring, you can only rely on your gross motor skills...what are WC's gross motor skills? What are your gross motor skills?

I haven't "fought" since beginning WC. I have sparred and found that chain punches and a front kick go a long way. They set up phon sao and throwing.

Thanks for your responses.

[Ernie]

your mind !

if your looking for *techniques* in wing chun then your just doing karate with fancy names

[Liddel]

My Master always refers to VT's habit actions or formal actions.

Formal as the most common to be used in fighting. A standard response if you will.

Actions like Huen sao, kwan Sao or Tie and Toy Sao are quite rare in actual fighting.

The actions i would call bread and butter are -
Lop Da, Tan Da, Guarn Da, Bi Jong, Pak Sao, Bui Sao (not Bui Jee ) and Running punch.

This is quite a literal answer to your question but thats my take

[wei wu wei]

just go in and hit

[Jeff Bussey]

Hey shadowboxer,
I've only been in a couple of little scuffles since I started viing tsun. But, pak sau, lap da and the punch seems to be what helped me.

That was what worked for me then, but I guess the bread and butter is all of the basics. Even though I hate giving answers like that cause they seem like a cop out.

If I had to go out on a limb and say what to work on most, it's obviously the punch and probably pak sau

J

[Shadowboxer]

Come on Ernie...you know what I mean . Is there something that you find yourself doing often when you glove up? Are there some "things" that are easier/more dfficult for you.

I know that we are training to just respond with kungfu to deal with whatever, I'm just taking a step back and looking to see if there are responses that occur more often than others after the fact.

Thanks Liddell and Jeff. What would you say are WC's gross motor skills? Please expand on your answers when you have some time.

[Taff]

For me, these are my high percentage techniques:

Pak sao
Lap sao
Biu Sao
Bong Sao (as an "Oh ****" technique)

In terms of striking:

Straight punch, not chain punch
Upwards palm under chin
Kick to shin
Elbow from Biu Tze form

This is just the things that I find my useful most of the time.

[Ernie]

Originally Posted by Shadowboxer

Come on Ernie...you know what I mean . Is there something that you find yourself doing often when you glove up? Are there some "things" that are easier/more dfficult for you.

I know that we are training to just respond with kungfu to deal with whatever, I'm just taking a step back and looking to see if there are responses that occur more often than others after the fact.

Thanks Liddell and Jeff. What would you say are WC's gross motor skills? Please expand on your answers when you have some time.

Bro,
i was being serious , if your looking for a pak or a lop or a whatever , your in essence ''chasing hands'' chasing a perconcieved notion of what you think [hope] a fight will be like , this is flawed and why technique people are very limited and have all kinds of problems [in the real world not the preprogramed game created in the school]

your minds ability to take in adapt and change is the core of everything , your minds ability to not be emotionally attached to any particular technique or set of techniques free's it up to use all , any or portions of the motions you have trained

there is only speed ,timing ,distance , power , change and position , these things are constants in any fight , how you train you ability to navagate these is your bread and butter =)

[sihing]

Originally Posted by Ernie

Bro,
i was being serious , if your looking for a pak or a lop or a whatever , your in essence ''chasing hands'' chasing a perconcieved notion of what you think [hope] a fight will be like , this is flawed and why technique people are very limited and have all kinds of problems [in the real world not the preprogramed game created in the school]

your minds ability to take in adapt and change is the core of everything , your minds ability to not be emotionally attached to any particular technique or set of techniques free's it up to use all , any or portions of the motions you have trained

there is only speed ,timing ,distance , power , change and position , these things are constants in any fight , how you train you ability to navagate these is your bread and butter =)

As a end result I agree totally with the above. You can't be thinking "WING CHUN" anything when you are being attacked. The time for that has already taken place in the training you have done before hand. You should be comfortable with any of the things mentioned in the previous post. Your focus should be on your opponent and not on the outcome or what will be used during the encounter. Remember the idea is not perfect Wing Chun movement, but to allow your body and mind to work together to get to a safe place.


James

[Liddel]

I agree with Ernies call 100%

But heinsight is 20/20 so even though one could perscribe to Ernies idea (as i do) we can look back and see more frequently used actions.

The question was "I was wondering what WC's "bread and butter" techniques are? What techniques are "high percentage"

A punch comes to mind right off the bat, would this not be true for you Ernie ?

My personal bread and butter with regard to Ernies call would be......

speed - fast
timing - immediate, same time
distance - close
power - Willing, explosive and sharp.

These are the more common things for me......It doesnt mean its the same every time though - for those skeptics out there.

[Jeff Bussey]

Hey guys,
Ernie is right when he says that looking for a specific technique to pull off is just bad news.
Agreed.
But from what I found in my limited experience is that pak sau seems to be one of those techniques that doable more often than others. That's just my opinion, not saying to forget everything else.

I guess the ultimate technique really is the punch. Hit hard and hit fast.

J

[Ernie]

Something WSL said comes to mind [ your enemy will show you the way ]
Looking at this I would ask myself , am I capable of letting him show me the way ?[am I aware ,can I listen,analyze and evaluate]
is my skill based on a bunch of prerequisites ?[am I to busy paying attention to myself and not to him]
am I only effective if I need to stand this or that way , hold my hands this or that way ,weight my legs this or that way, acquire specific flank inside outside top bottom ?
have I trained myself to be free of such ''crutches and restrictions '' ? am I still being used by wing Chun or am I using as much of it as needed for the given situation ?

If I have ''let go'' of all the robotic patterns and ways of thinking

then I can use what ever when ever , maybe a punch , maybe a choke , maybe just controlling space , or hitting him with an ashtray or a chair ,,,,,,,
I have ended fights by head butting a oncoming punch , I have kicked people in the balls/thigh/solar plex and watched them crumble I have hit them with fist , eye jab ,elbow hell even a nice shoulder bump to the jaw in a clinch , I have bit them and freaked them out .

I have been dropped and locked and choked by these things and more many times

I can honestly say I have no bread and butter technique anymore

I just try and do my best with what is offered and keep an empty focused mind ,,,,,,,either I go down or he does mostly we will both be hurt .

back in the day it was my lead hand,lead leg and footwork I was very fast and could hit very hard while covering allot of distance , but in the last few years I have not even done that , I let it go

[Ultimatewingchun]

"Come on Ernie...you know what I mean . Is there something that you find yourself doing often when you glove up? Are there some 'things' that are easier/more dfficult for you." (Shadowboxer)

.........................

"I was being serious , if your looking for a pak or a lop or a whatever , your in essence ''chasing hands'' chasing a perconcieved notion of what you think [hope] a fight will be like , this is flawed and why technique people are very limited and have all kinds of problems [in the real world not the preprogramed game created in the school]....(Ernie)


***WANT TO PUT IN MY TWO CENTS HERE...While I agree with Ernie that you'll wind up chasing hands if you have a preconceived notion about what wing chun moves you're going to use before the engagement begins...

Perhaps a better question would be:

What Wing Chun Moves and Techniques do you find yourself using more than others...WHEN YOU LOOK BACK UPON THE SPONTANEOUS SPARRING/FIGHTING THAT YOU DO?

[Ernie]

Originally Posted by Ultimatewingchun

"

***WANT TO PUT IN MY TWO CENTS HERE...While I agree with Ernie that you'll wind up chasing hands if you have a preconceived notion about what wing chun moves you're going to use before the engagement begins...

Perhaps a better question would be:

What Wing Chun Moves and Techniques do you find yourself using more than others...WHEN YOU LOOK BACK UPON THE SPONTANEOUS SPARRING/FIGHTING THAT YOU DO?

I don't use techniques , bit's and pieces in the flow that fit with what's going on [how else could you listen to what the guy is doing and adjust ! can't if your all caught up in techniques
as i said just enough , the difference between wing chun useing you or you useing the skills gained by wing chun*training*

[Matrix]

Originally Posted by Ernie

I can honestly say I have no bread and butter technique anymore

I think that's what we should all strive for. Once you fall in love with certain techniques you limit yourself and your ability to respond naturally to a given situation. Easier said then done. I know I'm not there yet.

You often hear people ask "what is the best entry technique?" or something like that. The answer depends on the situation. That may sound like a cop-out but it is in fact the best answer. It leaves open all the possiblities. If you have a pre-set series of techniques in mind beforehand, you are counting on the situation evolving in a certain manner. It's like saying you are having a discussion with a person, but you're so busy thinking about your response while the other person is trying to tell you something that you're not really listening. You are more concerned about making your point, rather than really discussing the issue. So don't be surprised when the outcome is not exactly as you had anticipated.