Word Abuse?

[Jim Roselando]

Hey all,


Just out of curiosity!

How many times have you heard your sifu say:

No Tension, Less Tension, Too much Tension etc..

The word Tension or other similar phrases like:

No Muscle, Less Muscle, Too much Muscle etc..

Are we abusing a common soft art slang/term (or terms) if it is not 100% accurate according to human anatomy books?

Are we being mislead (or misleading people) by such terms or slang if its not 100% book accurate?

Does anyone not understand what our sifu's are trying to tell us?

Any feedback or thoughts would be great!!


Peace,

[stonecrusher69]

My sifu says no power which is the same as little muscle tension relax..I dont find it confussing..

[Jim Roselando]

Stonecrusher,


Thanks for the post.

Oh oh! No power!

We need to add that one to the list now! hahaha

Just kidding!

I also feel the same as you!

Anyone else???


Regards,

[Hendrik]

When I was young I love to argue about Right and Wrong according to MY VIEW just because I want the whole world to go according to MY WAY.

As A corse in Miracle said " I rather to be happy then right" Or as my ex sifu the Chan patirach late Ven Hsuan Hua said " Everything is ok" . Now a day, I rather go this way if I am Aware of myself. (sometimes, I dont aware of myself). When we take away the must be MY Way. Life seems to be much effortless. Certainly, I sometimes vasilating between My WAY is the ONLY way and Everything is OK.


Take this, it is just last night, I get into this MY WAY is the ONLY Way with my kid and end up with angry , upper back stiff and pain. And that is the indication of my body is telling me I have stucked in Not Flexible and EGO..... I found it out this morning while I ask the Buddha to show me what is happing.... It is ok, no one has to do it the way I present even my kid.

As certainly, there are people who love to argue for shake of argue. and we want to let them present thier view because It is not effective at all trying to not allow others to manifest what they want to. ... I guess it goes back to Lat Sau Jek Choong. Let go and move on..... instead of stuck and draining energy going force against force. As we know, not everyone will agree with one, and that is reality

Hahaha

[Jim Roselando]

Sifu,


Everything is ok is a nice motto!


Regards,

[GungFuHillbilly]

>if it is not 100% accurate according to human anatomy books.

Anatomy books don't always agree on what is going on with dynamic processes (if they even address them at all).

IMHO students spend way too much time focusing on semantics. While I acknowledge that the context in which a term is used is important and there are truths to be gleaned from the words we use, in the end if you are speaking of Art their is a point at which words fail to convey deeper meanings.

-GFH

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


Nice post!


Thanks,

[Liddel]

Good call GungFuHillbilly -
Words are used to imply feelings and convey an idea or meaning.

Common calls at our school are "Less/ too much force" Fong Sau, Relax etc...

Often Sifu would follow up such a call with letting the student feel the right way.... which is where the true understanding comes from IMO.

You need a good mix of being told and feeling about it.

If you didnt need the feeling you could therefore learn a large part from a book ! which we all know would only scratch the surface.

[reneritchie]

BFD.

No tension, you're a puddle on the floor. Too much and you're a brittle stick in the wind.

WCK isn't about *no* tension or *no* power, it's nicely spelled out in the Kuen Kuit that WCK is about achieving the most with the least. We try to get to as little tension as we need for a specific task, as little power as we need for a specific situation, all so that another highly skilled opponent can't take our excess and use it against us.

It's not meant to be a goal but a journey, continually improving as you approach great results in a perceptibly effortless manner.

And, hey, if you're a powerful person with incredible chin and pain tolerance, good for you! You have a bonus! If you can give it up long enough to learn to maximize, imagine what you'll be able to do when you ramp it up again!

And if you complain someone is using strength against you, well, hey, you should be happy, as it should make it easier for you to "use against them"!

[KPM]

Originally Posted by reneritchie

BFD.

No tension, you're a puddle on the floor. Too much and you're a brittle stick in the wind.

WCK isn't about *no* tension or *no* power, it's nicely spelled out in the Kuen Kuit that WCK is about achieving the most with the least. We try to get to as little tension as we need for a specific task, as little power as we need for a specific situation, all so that another highly skilled opponent can't take our excess and use it against us.

Good post Rene! Now let me propose a related question for you guys. Sure, your sifu can tell you to use "no tension" or "no muscle" and you will understand that he is speaking on a relative basis only, because you know that it is physically impossible to really have NO tension in an active muscle and to move without using your muscles. So nick-picking whether he should have said "relatively no tension" or "relatively no muscle" is just semantics. But what if it was becoming clear that he really thought that you could stand there with absolutely no tension in your calves? Or that he really thought that by using your Chi you can move joints without using muscles? Would you call him on it??? What if it became clear that the sifu that you were trusting with your education and development didn't know the difference between a tendon and a ligament? Or didn't understand that muscles cross joints but don't attach to joints? Would that concern you? In other words, to be a fully qualified instructor of martial arts, should one have at least a fundamental knowledge of how the body works from a western anatomy and physiology standpoint? Should a fully qualified Sifu know anatomy and physiology to at least a level similar to the typical high school football or basketball coach? After all, isn't training in martial arts at least as challenging as football and basketball? Should your sifu be able to explain to you basic biomechanics just as well as he can explain to you oriental metaphysics? Does anyone want a sifu that doesn't know at least as much as their high school coach? What do you guys think?

Keith

[anerlich]

Any feedback or thoughts would be great!!

Immediate feedback and thought: you are flogging a dead horse.

BFD.

And that sums the whole thing up beautifully.

Different teaching modalities work better for different students. Assume the student is smart enough to work some things out for him/herself, unless for some reason you enjoy teaching morons.

[GungFuHillbilly]

Some interesting questions Keith...

I feel all too often that we confuse teachers and practitioners. Don't get me wrong, I feel some of the best teachers are some of the best practitioners; however the reverse is not always true.

Music teachers for instance... There are a great many music instructors that are not composing or performing but are phenomenal teachers. And it can very often be said that some of the greatest musicians/composers were/are terrible teachers.

While it is important to have a knowledgeable teacher that you can question, it is also important to have a teacher that can relate the art to you. It ultimately comes down to the question "Are you learning from them?"

It's not that "those who can't teach." It's more to the point that teaching in itself is an art aside from the practice of any martial art.

Different students require different approaches in order for them to learn and develop and good teachers know what approach to take with a student regardless of the subject matter.

I would tend to say that "calling your Sifu on it" would be an ego thing, but that's just MHO.

-GFH

[stonecrusher69]

how do you know how much power,muscle tension to use? If you where to pick up a pencil would you use 100% of your power or would you use a small fraction of your energy?You simply use what is correct amount that is need to perform the task.

[Jim Roselando]

GFH wrote:


While it is important to have a knowledgeable teacher that you can question, it is also important to have a teacher that can relate the art to you. It ultimately comes down to the question "Are you learning from them?"

What if;

What if a person with absolutely no education learns WCK. He cant tell his pinky from his thumb! But! Can throw the educated students around with ease? What good does the education do?

What if Mr. Smoe from China moves to the USA. He cannot speak English at all and is not interested in learning English. Should only Chinese speaking people learn from him or could you learn from him via the feel and constant hands on adjustments etc?

What if a person with a very high education tries to learn WCK. He knows every detail of his body inside and out but has not so good athletic DNA. Would the education help him eventually figure it out??


So, in the end is "what can you do" with what you know and can you pass it on consistantly.

***

I would tend to say that "calling your Sifu on it" would be an ego thing, but that's just MHO.

How would a "martial artist" call another martial artist on something????

Si Gung Fung Chiu would say to his visiters and students:

Everyone has the talk! What can you do!


"Do your hands speak or don't they?"


Gotta run!

[cobra]

I understand this a little better now than a couple of years ago. I used to get annoyed with being told I was too stiff, tense, strong. Not soft enough. Now I understand a lot better because I had to become much softer to experience the "sensitivity". I understand sensitivity now in a different way as I have caught myself reacting to things that I feel and I'm talking about very subtle changes in pressure and direction. My reaction times are a lot faster now and I am also able to deliver a lot more power. This is really not something to be explained easily, but rather experienced by trusting your sifu and lots of repitition. You can't get the sensitivity to that level without "giving up the force". I hope this makes some sense as it is extremely hard to convey in writing.