Wing Choon

[Phil Redmond]

I've been asked a few times why there are so many spellings for Wing Chun. Many of you here know already so this is old news.
Hong Kong was a British colony for years. The Brits used the term "water closet" (WC) for toilet. Wing Chun people didn't want to associate the initials WC for their beloved system so they changed the Romanization to 'VT'. Leung Ting designated his branch with the initials, WT.
When a native Cantonese reader sees the Chinese characters for Wing Chun they will pronounce it "Wing Choon" regardless of what Romanization we Westerners use. Some people use Bil Jee. It should really be "Biu" like chew. Also there are no "R" sounds in Cantonese so larp (lop), garn (gan), gerk (geuk), are not correct. OK, rant over.
Phil

[reneritchie]

There are also dialect differences, and regional differences.

E.g, someone in Guangzhou and many in HK will pronounce the first set like Siu Nim Tao. Cetain areas in HK, however, will pronounce it closer to Siu Lim Tao (they replace initial 'N' sounds with initial 'L' sounds). This is like how some English speakers say 'sofer' instead of 'sofa'.

That same group in HK will also drop initial 'Ng', so Ngoi (as pronounced in Guangzhou and HK) will sound closer to Oy.

And don't even get Phil started on the difference in Toishan pronounciations...

[Stevo]

Originally Posted by Phil Redmond

...Also there are no "R" sounds in Cantonese so larp (lop), garn (gan), gerk (geuk), are not correct. OK, rant over.
Phil

Don't forget that "R" in those cases is not pronounced in non-American/Canadian English. So we can spell it "garn" and pronounce it "gahn".

[Matrix]

Originally Posted by Stevo

Don't forget that "R" in those cases is not pronounced in non-American/Canadian English. So we can spell it "garn" and pronounce it "gahn".

Since we are romanizing here, it hardly makes sense to me to insert silent characters. At least that's how I see it.........

[reneritchie]

I think that was an attempt to get English speakers to, for example, pronounce 'Gan' less like the 'a' in 'man' and more like the 'a' in 'father'.

Some dialects, like Mandarin, use tonal accents as well, but they have 4 tones where Cantonese has roughly double that (which is why other use the accentls plus insertion of silent 'h' to indicate low tones).

[El Tejon]

Thank you for the language lesson, Sifu Redmon.

No sich tang yeti Gwandungwah-- but it needs a lot of help!

I am told I have a Vietnamese accent by my mantis brothers, which is really strange considering I am a tall, lanky WASP.

[Phil Redmond]

Originally Posted by Matrix

Since we are romanizing here, it hardly makes sense to me to insert silent characters. At least that's how I see it.........

Think of music with it's Treble and Bass cleffs. There are some differences of opinions but generally Cantonese has 7 tones. Four tones are upper level (trebel cleff). Three tones are lower level (bass cleff). In order to distinguish between upper and lower level the letter 'h' is added to the word.
Phil

[Phil Redmond]

Originally Posted by reneritchie

There are also dialect differences, and regional differences.

E.g, someone in Guangzhou and many in HK will pronounce the first set like Siu Nim Tao. Cetain areas in HK, however, will pronounce it closer to Siu Lim Tao (they replace initial 'N' sounds with initial 'L' sounds). This is like how some English speakers say 'sofer' instead of 'sofa'.

That same group in HK will also drop initial 'Ng', so Ngoi (as pronounced in Guangzhou and HK) will sound closer to Oy.

And don't even get Phil started on the difference in Toishan pronounciations...

I remember hearing Moy Yat speaking Toishan when we'd go out to dinner. I was just learning Cantonese then and could catch very little. Now I'm trying to talk to people how speak Haak Ga. Rene, that's a diffult dialect. For those of you on T.O. there's a REALLY good Haak Ga restaurant near the bus station called Indochine.
Phil

[Phil Redmond]

Originally Posted by El Tejon

Thank you for the language lesson, Sifu Redmon.

No sich tang yeti Gwandungwah-- but it needs a lot of help!

I am told I have a Vietnamese accent by my mantis brothers, which is really strange considering I am a tall, lanky WASP.

M'goi sai. M'gan yiu ah. Ngo haih haak yahn dahnhaai Ngo sihk gong Gwondung Wah. Neih hou chungming yahn ah.
Fei Lihk (Phillip)

[kj]

Originally Posted by Stevo

Don't forget that "R" in those cases is not pronounced in non-American/Canadian English. So we can spell it "garn" and pronounce it "gahn".

That's how some of my Bahstonian friends pronounce it too.

Regards,
- kj

[Matrix]

Originally Posted by Phil Redmond

In order to distinguish between upper and lower level the letter 'h' is added to the word.

Phil,
I'm not musical at all. However, my point was more with respect to Steveo's use of "r" as in garn, as opposed to gan or gahn. I don't how an "r" would help. IOW, I was agreeing with your comment. But then again, I speak Canadian, eh.

[Phil Redmond]

Originally Posted by Matrix

Phil,
I'm not musical at all. However, my point was more with respect to Steveo's use of "r" as in garn, as opposed to gan or gahn. I don't how an "r" would help. IOW, I was agreeing with your comment. But then again, I speak Canadian, eh.

Man, I always keep a couple of Toonies in my pocket.
Phil

[ntc]

Originally Posted by Phil Redmond

M'goi sai. M'gan yiu ah. Ngo haih haak yahn dahnhaai Ngo sihk gong Gwondung Wah. Neih hou chungming yahn ah.
Fei Lihk (Phillip)

Phil:

Gong dut m chor... hou !!!

By the way, I think the translation of your name fits better with Fei Leep (instead of Fei Lihk).... the "lip" in Philip sounds better and more pronounced this way. Just a thought..... ;-)

[Stevo]

Originally Posted by kj

That's how some of my Bahstonian friends pronounce it too.

Regards,
- kj

OK, I know I speak funny, but there's no need for insults, kj!

[kj]

Originally Posted by Stevo

OK, I know I speak funny, but there's no need for insults, kj!

Not at all - I find it rather endearing. You should hear our unusual Rehchester accents.

Regards,
- kj