Does copyright law apply to kung fu forms?

[Fu-Pow]

Some of the discussions from other threads got me thinking. If you can copyright a song, film or written work then could you copyright a sequence of movements ie a form? It seems as though it could count as "intellectual property."

That way anytime someone performed one of "your" sets, at least in public, then you could demand a royalty fee. I know Judge Pen reads this forum, perhaps he has some idea.

[Ou Ji]

Sounds like a possibility but if it were true there would be a mass of applications trying to corner the market on the well known forms. Would you have to proove some type of ownership or could you register them like you do with domain names, first one gets it. Then sell to the highest bidder. Schools would be forced to buy their own forms back. Can't imagine that ever being allowed.

I would think that only the original creator could claim ownership and all those guys are pretty much dead so I don't see it going anywhere. How would you prove you are the legitimate owner if not the creator?

[David Jamieson]

I'm only guessing, but I'd have to say no you can't copyright human movement anymore than you can copyright the sound of a human voice.

You can copyright your form poems though.

[Yum Cha]

Fu-Pow,
You don't work for Micro$oft do you?


Ever seen or heard of a copyrighted dance?

Cheers

[Ou Ji]

You can't copywrite the moves but the sequence is something different. You can't copywrite standard english words but you can copywrite a sequence of those words (stories, poems, songs).

Something to consider.

[Vajramusti]

Even if one rushes to copyright- things can still end up in litigation by one party or the other.
Yoga is very old- but as I understand Bikram has copyrighted his version of sequences and has gone after people falsely claiming to teach Bikram's yoga.
joy chaudhuri

[sean_stonehart]

I don't believe it's possible to do so.

The written poem/lyrics yes or maybe even specific motions in a certain order, but if a person changes something, enough to cause change to the technique to make it not the same, then it may be possible.

I'd suggest asking ye old Judge Pen.

[yutyeesam]

my guess is that if you did not invent it, you can not copyright it. i would imagine you could copyright your own sequence. the problem would lie in disproving someone's claim that they invented it.

people could copyright all they want, but someone could make a small change to it and say, see it's not the same, so i don't owe you jack! if you look in the "about" option in the help tab of internet explorer it says:

Based on NCSA Mosaic. NCSA Mosaic(TM); was developed at the National Center for Supercomputing Applications at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.

NCSA/UIUC does not get one red cent of bill gate's profits.

Man, it would get reallly ugly if people started copyrighting traditional forms.

[Fu-Pow]

Originally Posted by yutyeesam

my guess is that if you did not invent it, you can not copyright it. i would imagine you could copyright your own sequence. the problem would lie in disproving someone's claim that they invented it.

Ideally I think that is true. However, we know there are copyrights and patents that are legal yet the owner "stole" the invention, idea, song, story, etc. and was simply the first to copyright it.

So why not forms? How 'bout dance routines, that would be the closest in terms of content.

BTW, I recall hearing somewhere that they were trying to trademark the name Shaolin.

[Galadriel]

Here's some info on the whole Bikram "Copyright"

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...ow/1110021.cms

He "created" this sequence, so I suppose somebody could attempt the same for Kung Fu, but for him it was a big money making scheme....

Don't know how much money you could make for copyrighting a few forms - you'd need to copyright an entire style and make sure everybody wants to learn it....

[GreenCloudCLF]

From what I understand, you do have a right to copyright your creation, be it written of physical. However the traditional forms that we all practice would fall into public domain. Even had they been copyrighted, the copyright on them would have expired long ago.

[Innocence]

hello~
I think copyright is automatically granted when you post (at least poetry) online, and put your name and a date with it.

Thats my understanding of it anyway haha~
You dont need to apply for a copyright. It's not like trademarks where you need to be granted the right to it, or a patent.

[David Jamieson]

copyrights and the laws that govern them vary from country to country.

They also expire and the material becomes public domain.

I don't think there is any siginificantly new technology in martial arts. Rediscovered stuff sure, resequenced stuff, extrapolated stuff, new focus, different emphasis, but essentially, it is pretty much all public domain stuff.

It is discernable by it's shape in regards to an origin, but who made what first is always going to be a matter of debate.

[Mulong]

We must look at this case, i.e., yoga school, like McDonald… Hence, you didn’t create a product per say, but a way of presenting it; hence, you copyright your business. Therefore, the product falls under that banner; meaning if someone, teaches the same formula or presentation you are able to sue them.

That what seems occurred in this case. Therefore, can this be done with martial arts, possibly, but it has to be a new presentation; meaning a new name, and actual curriculum, with a step-by step instruction in how to teach it and most of all how to run the business.

This only works if you are actually making money; hence, taking money out of this individual’s pocket; therefore, making it liable.

[Judge Pen]

I think the responses have hit the nail on the head. A traditional form can't be copywritten because they aren't yours to begin with. Other people have been taught the form. If you "create" the form, then maybe, but it's so easy to change enough to overcome the liability. I'm sure it's been tried, but it probably won't be sucessful.