Creatine thoughts

[Toby]

I took it for about 6 weeks straight. Stopped two days ago. I ended up taking about 6g/day. I thought it was helping my performance, but I couldn't be sure if that was just psychosomatic. Anyway, results after the whole time indicated it probably wasn't psychosomatic.

Pros:
(i) I gained about 7lb. I'll be interested to see if I lose much/any. I have changed my diet a bit, though.
(ii) I benched a PR - 281lb @ 189lb bw.
(iii) I squatted 340lb x 5 with good form - felt better than I have for a long time (since losing weight earlier in the year).
(iv) I DL'd 363lb x 4 easily, although I screwed up the last rep and tweaked my back. That equated to a PR too. DL has felt really good for me lately. I should've gone for a 1RM.

Cons:
(i) My organs started to feel a bit funny (tender), which is why I stopped. Mainly on my lower left (spleen? kidney?). This worried me a bit. I've been eating lots of protein (for a change ) and that combined with the creatine might've put quite a load on me.
(ii) I coped with the dehydration, but it was kind of a pain at times. I drank a lot.

I'm going to take a month off or so and see how my guts go, and then maybe cycle a month on/month off and see whether I encounter the same problem. If so, I'll stop. Maybe mickey's right . Originally I was intending to cycle 2 mths on/1 off.

I've been doing different training lately, lots of internal stuff, so that's changed my lifting a little bit maybe. It's changed my MA quite a bit too, and maybe forcing me to use some muscles that I haven't before so I don't know what effect that's had and what's been purely creatine. Also, the weight gain obviously affected my lifts a bit.

It's interesting stuff anyway. Unfortunately, I work in 2 week cycles, so if I'm cycling 1 mth on/1 off I'll only go through 1 squat cycle and 1 DL cycle. Makes it kind of hard to push the envelope and compare results. It'll have to be a long term experiment provided I don't get the sore guts thing again.

[IronFist]

Did you really feel dehydration? I didn't notice any when I was on it. Then again, I didn't do cardio then, anyway.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by IronFist

Then again, I didn't do cardio then, anyway.

And now you do? Running 1 mile once isn't "doing cardio" . But yeah, I did notice. Pretty regularly during MA class at the end of the day. Pretty often mid-morning. Just a dry mouth like you sometimes get after taking e.g. antihistamines. And that despite intentionally drinking more than usual.

[Mo Lung]

Originally Posted by Toby

Originally I was intending to cycle 2 mths on/1 off.

Woah! Way too long on, man. A better cycle is two weeks on/two weeks off. That way your body never truly relies on the external supply, but you get a regular creatine boost. Don't try to match it in any way to your training cycles.

And drink more water!

[Toby]

When I first created a thread on creatine, no-one complained when I said I'd do 2mths on/1 off (including you ). But yeah, 2 weeks on/2 off might be worth a go. Except I'd end up aligned with either my squat or DL cycle and always miss the other.

[IronFist]

Originally Posted by Toby

And now you do? Running 1 mile once isn't "doing cardio" .

All I have to do is run one more mile and then I'm "doing cardio." I can say it's a regular part of my workout, just on a very spaced out cycle (if I feel like doing it once a month).

Haha, I might go running again tomorrow tho. wtf is wrong with me? I'd go today but my calves are still sore from the first time.

[Samurai Jack]

Originally Posted by Mo Lung

Woah! Way too long on, man. A better cycle is two weeks on/two weeks off. That way your body never truly relies on the external supply, but you get a regular creatine boost. Don't try to match it in any way to your training cycles.

What?!?

I've been away for a few weeks, so maybe I missed something...

Since when do you have to cycle off creatine? What's the purpose? I've used it for literally years at a time with no ill effects. It's just a nutrient, so what gives with the cycling?

[Samurai Jack]

Plus, without a loading phase it'll take at least three weeks for you to build a creatine surplus in the muscle, so 2 on/ 2 off would just be a waste of money.

Please explain...

[mickey]

Hi Toby,

Thank you for sharing both the pros and the cons of your experiences with us. I am really glad that you are okay.

mickey

[Mo Lung]

Originally Posted by Toby

When I first created a thread on creatine, no-one complained when I said I'd do 2mths on/1 off (including you ).

Sorry, must have missed that the first time!

But yeah, 2 weeks on/2 off might be worth a go. Except I'd end up aligned with either my squat or DL cycle and always miss the other.

So every once in a while chuck on a 3 week phase in the cycling.

[Mo Lung]

Originally Posted by Samurai Jack

What?!?

I've been away for a few weeks, so maybe I missed something...

Since when do you have to cycle off creatine? What's the purpose? I've used it for literally years at a time with no ill effects. It's just a nutrient, so what gives with the cycling?

Plus, without a loading phase it'll take at least three weeks for you to build a creatine surplus in the muscle, so 2 on/ 2 off would just be a waste of money.

Please explain...

Pull up Google; type in "cycling creatine"; read.

Most people will suggest a one month on/one month off cycle, or two months on/one month off, etc.

However, the creatine stored in the muscle takes at least 3 or 4 weeks to completely disappear, so 2 weeks on/2 weeks off has a kind of overlapping stacking effect.

Anyway, read the Google results.

[Samurai Jack]

I see. So you have time to make recommendations, but not explain them.

Here's mine. Forget the cycling. There is no reason to cycle Creatine whatsoever. Creatine is a necessary nutrient that is stored in muscle tissue over time. Your body can make enough for ordinary demands, but research shows that weight trainers and vegetarians benifit from supplementation. You don't cycle on and off vitamin C; you don't need to cycle your creatine either. In fact doing so will reduce it's benifit.

[Toby]

SJ, I forget: are you vegetarian/vegan? Just curious. Also, what are people's thoughts on me eating, say, several hundred grams of lean red meat a day and supplementing creatine at the same time? Or taking 200g+ of protein and supplementing creatine? I've been doing the protein thing for a long while now with no side effects. I also luuurve my lean red meat. Personally, I think the amounts of protein + creatine might've been what caused my organs to feel weird, although I wouldn't consider my diet at the time to be "extreme" (compared to serious strength athletes, but maybe in comparison to the average punter).

[IronFist]

I just wanted to say thanks for posting your weights in your first post in US pounds instead of that hippie system you guys use down there.

The cycling creatine thing is interesting. A lot of people say yay, and a lot of people say nay. Some people say too much creatine shuts down your natural production of it. Other people say "wtf, you don't produce creatine naturally in the first place."

Hey, I heard Australia has more strict supplement laws than USA. I've even heard creatine is illegal down there, but I guess not. What are your guys' steroid laws? j/w

[Toby]

Illegal AFAIK. Creatine is legal. I buy it online, but I've seen it advertised in the paper and my local bike shop sells it too (don't ask me why bike riders would want to take creatine - I wonder that myself).