What are you worth as a sifu?

[rogue]

Today, my school is open 6 days a week, I have classes all day, I have heavy bags, mats, a ring, weights, and I have a staff to pay. Obviously, I have bills to pay. And I have mouths to feed. So I have no reservations about charging $120 per month and actually collecting it.

Sounds about right. From what I can tell lkfmdc, you actually have services that you sell and that's the way to go. A friend of mine has a commercial school and by trying to be more profitable ( a good thing ) he's gone from teaching a solid martial art to teaching something acceptable to soccer moms. He's been wondering why his better students and black belts have been drifting away.

My sensei teaches for next to nothing, he just likes to teach. If we need equipment we all just toss some money into the till.

[Vash]

Originally posted by Oso
get your students to teach your kids class.

Make sure you give the student the go-ahead to beat the unholy hell out of the parents of the dumb kids, though. You know the ones. They pick their nose and spin when it's time to do anything.

[Oso]

Vash, man that is the wrong technique.

You kill the most obnoxious kid at the beginning of each month and prop them in the corner as en example to the others.

keeps things quiet and running smoothly with little johnny sugar freak slowly rotting in the corner.

[rogue]

You have to admit, it is fun using the class bully or the obnoxious kid as a demonstration dummy.

[Oso]

yep, man I got some stories...helped teach kids class from '94 till '01 for my old sifu. From about '97 to '01 I was the kids class instructor. He took them from 4 up...and gave them to me...

[Oso]

heh, just broke 3000....

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by rogue
.............A friend of mine has a commercial school and by trying to be more profitable ( a good thing ) he's gone from teaching a solid martial art to teaching something acceptable to soccer moms. He's been wondering why his better students and black belts have been drifting away.

Thats his mistake. What you charge and how you teach don't really need to go hand in hand.
People will pay well if they think they are getting a cutting edge challenging experience.

Kids classes are entirely different. You can't put kids through the grinder like an adult. It has to be lighter. But of course it has to reflect reality by not pumping them up full of fool ideas.

The lesson here is that those who have the small hardcore group are basically the same as those who have a small hardcore group surrounded by a big more casual group. Except of course one is poorer than the other. The hardcore group will never be big in any place. It has to be accompanied by the lesser student group.

This "poor teacher" paradigm is something carried over from the movies, the whole "wandering monk" phenomenon. This myth is stupid. And as Ross pointed out not really the reality.

People have no qualms about paying through the nose to have little johnny ride a horse for an hour. Or, pay huge amounts for guitar classes. Why should it be any different for quality instruction? The teacher is giving of his time, experience, knowlegde, dedication, facilities, employees, etc. Those that have a problem with this are cheap muerto de hambre mo-fos that don't appreciate whats being given to them. Money does NOT equate to bad quality. The bad quality would be bad at any price.

[Serpent]

Word!

[David Jamieson]

oso-

you broke 3000 kids?

it's martial arts man not horse training...



(actually i understand what you meant, it just looked funny)

[Oso]

yea, good post SifuA.




LOL, yep stacked the little buggers up...didn't get a clean break on the bottom 4 though.....


and sorta speaking of kids class and teaching...newish pics at my site.


http://www.ashevillemartialarts.com/Photos.htm

I like my kids class now...6 on a good day.
as much as I'd like to have a good 12-15, once you get that many you have to use a more military, rank & file approach and I don't think that imparts the best training to a kid.

[CFT]

Originally posted by sayloc
I have found that when I charged less money I had less students who where much less dedicated. When I began raising prices I signed up more students who trained harder. I doubled the size of my school. I dont know why but it happened that way.

<snip>

I said that the best thing my instructor ever did for me was to make me pay. If I payed money for my training or extra material It seemed like I practied it more which of course makes your Kung Fu better. I have found it works for my students as well. I also make more money in the long run.

Seems kind of ironic that we only value things that we can assign a monetary value to. That said, I'm sure there are lots of people who appreciate martial arts that are taught to them for free or effectively free.

Of course there is the great selling phrase "Praying Mantis kung fu is very rare, you will be lucky to study it here".

Or you can change your selling phrase to "Paying Mantis" Sorry, cheap shot from a WC guy.

Here take a swipe at me ... no, with the other hand ... no, straight punch not hook ...

[SifuAbel]

"I like my kids class now...6 on a good day.
as much as I'd like to have a good 12-15, once you get that many you have to use a more military, rank & file approach and I don't think that imparts the best training to a kid."

I hear ya, but I'll put another spin on it. The rank and file type of class can be ok as long as the teacher's attitude is still positive and not too obsessed with militarism. Kids will be kids, so punishing them from every step out of line is not productive. The "secret", if you will, to a kids class is too take up as much of the down time as possible. Kids have the attention span of a squirrel. Too much time on one thing or too much time between things will bore them. Much is said about making the class easier, thats not what drove me when I was a kid. I got off on how hard it was. It was a real challenge to keep up.

Another concept people don't get is that the club should actually be doing its best to weed out those that are a hindrance. Keeping those that want to work. This will attract more of this type of student.

There is one school I know of in Key Biscayne , FL that actually has the students voting the new guy in or not. This keeps the peace and makes the group strive for better. And those guys have a group of kids that I would kill for.

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by CFT
Seems kind of ironic that we only value things that we can assign a monetary value to. That said, I'm sure there are lots of people who appreciate martial arts that are taught to them for free or effectively free.

More times than not, what they appreciate is the fact that its free. But, they take the teachers time for granted. Most(maybe not all) times these students have a very casual attitude toward what they are learning.

Welcome to capitalist america.

[Oso]

just to clarify: by 'military rank & file' I was referring more to lining the kids up and doing shadow boxing type drills or line drills or forms and that's all you can do because you don't have enough instructors to break the class into groups for more individual attention.

there was many a day I would line up 20+ kids and be the only instructor there. not much choice then but line em up so you can keep your eye on them all. didn't like that at all...40 beady little eyes just staring at you, waiting for you to turn your back for just one second so they can whack the kid next to them.

lol, if anything, I'm way to relaxed about proper form and etiquitte in class. I just don't get off on all the bowing and scraping. But, as my kids class grows I know I'll need to implement that stuff again.

one of the rifts between my and my old teacher is that there were two kids that I did not feel should be there. Real hazards to the other kids. He wouldn't boot them.

I think that, like a lot of other sports, some kids aren't especially there because they want to be but because the parents want them to be. Even with just 6 kids, I have to deal with parents who place just too much importance on their 6 year old doing tan tui exactly like it should be done. It looks lke tan tui, most of the arms and legs are in the right place at the right time. Maybe I should be more demanding of precision but I just can't see beating it into the kid. If he's having fun doing it then he'll stick with it long enough to be nailing it when he's 10.

[Vash]

Indeed.

Good thought on actually taking the kid out, as it were. Little Johnny Sugarrush, indeed. Frikkin alien is horrible.

Too bad I have to miss class tonight. I'd love to mess the kid up. But, there's always next time.

Next time I'm gonna break his finger off in his nose.