Judo vs Tai Chi

[YongChun]

I have trained Yang style Tai Chi. An Olympic calibre Judo practitioner who also trains in Tai Chi (Cheng Man Ching style) told me the other day that in his opinion there is no Tai Chi person who would be a match for the best Judo players that Japan has like Koga and he mentioned a few other names. So he is talking about the cream of the crop in both arts.

Then I talked with another person who teaches Aikido but has studied Judo, TaeKwonDo, Escrima, and was a Malaysian street fighter. And in his opinion a Judo guy would not be able to get close to a top Tai Chi guy without getting his arms broken first. He said if the Tai Chi guy plays the Judo man's game then maybe he would be in trouble but if not, then he should succeed.

Ray

[Repulsive Monkey]

I know of a high level Judo practitioner who switched to Cheng Man Ching style Taiji, and then went on to win a few golds at a high ranking competition. He said he gave up on his Judo and just used Taiji in his fights but made it look like Judo and he totally sailed all the way to gold positions in his category.

He said after all his years doing Judo he realised that Taiji washed the floor with his opponents.

[cerebus]

Only one way to know for sure.......... DEATHMATCH!

[SPJ]

Judo is to neutralize and throw. You have to grab on collar, sleeve, arms or shoulder. You have to position your leg in between the opponent's 2 legs or trip one leg. For the most part, you use your hip as the leverage point. And you may need some body contact.

Tai Ji practitioners maneuver their steps swifly.

If you touch or try to contact any part of a Tai Ji fellow, you are either bounced off by Tang Dou Jin or your arms being Qin Na.

You try to touch the shoulder, the shoulder is yielded to your approach, and then the shoulder comes back and hits your hand.

Your approach and positioning will be "destroyed" all the time.

Tai Ji is to "shadow" your Jin and movements and "follow" you.

Try to uproot a Tai Ji fellow may be a difficult feat.

On the other hand, try to "Judo" a Judoer will be a difficult feat, too.

Best of luck for both.

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by SPJ


If you touch or try to contact any part of a Tai Ji fellow, you are either bounced off by Tang Dou Jin or your arms being Qin Na.

You try to touch the shoulder, the shoulder is yielded to your approach, and then the shoulder comes back and hits your hand.

Your approach and positioning will be "destroyed" all the time.

Well that sounds great if it just happens to actually work out that way!

[SPJ]

The basic Tai Ji maneuver is to yield (to the left, to the right, etc).

The opponent linear approach or advance is met with your positioning circularly to the side with steps and rotating the waist.

It will be difficult to touch any body parts of a Tai Ji'er. The hands forming the surface of the Tai Ji balls will meet you first.

When you move back your hands or steps, guess what, TJ'er shadows and follows you.

On the other hand, if a TJ'er wants to advance first, he or she will use cloudy hands (Yun Shou) to close on you.

A Judoer stance is both hands forward with an arched back. Once he or she sees an opportunity, he or she will position one of his or her legs forward and use both hands to grab or hold on to something.

Sorry. These are indeed hypothetic at best.

I am only making a general assumption.

I am playing a Tai Ji chessgame against a Judoer.

I am playing both sides.

I am talking to myself. How pathetic?

[YongChun]

I talked about this with someone who practiced both Tai Chi and Judo when he was younger. He said if the Tai Chi guy plays the Judo guys game then it might be a problem however he said the Judo guy might get a lot of things broken before he can get into any decent position to do a useful Judo technique.

[SPJ]

Judo is a body contact or tripping the leg strategy. Grab and throw or trip.

Tai Ji may contact and move the opponent's arm like a long spear.

Lei is to use a sudden jerking Jin horizontal to your Jin and basically breaks your wrist, elbow or shoulder joints.

To defend against Lei is to learn Qin Na, anti Qin Na and keep your elbow bent and move closer.

Peace out.

[Kaitain(UK)]

Judoka have good roots too

I agree with SPJ, the judoka should be demolished before he can execute a technique. In this hypothetical match between two utterly pure stylists

Funny thing is, if we said Taiji vs BJJ and said the same things there would be uproar I train with BJJ and the guys that don't crosstrain would be a fair bit easier to destroy on their entries than the guys who study striking as well.

Paul

[Wong Fei Hong]

Funnily enough , i heard a story from chen xiaowang during a seminar, where a high ranking judoka from japan decided to ridicule him by rushing him (or one of his relatives/one of the other chen lineageholders ???) from behind and throwing him whilst he was demonstrating something.
apparently the judoka grabbed the top part of his body and without realising as a reaction, chenxiaowang elbow struck him with fajing, the blow lifted him off his feet and flipped him over head onto the ground.
from the way he described the guy was top heavy and the low strike added impetus.
I remember he then told us something about how everyone got scared including him the guy would die. However he said something to the extent of if the guy urinated within the next few minutes and blood came out there was fear of severe internal damage. And the leakeage would drain chi and crack his internal system.

Anyhow one thing i found quite amazing was that the fajing had a bouncing effect as opposed to a penetrating effect.

Another incident that actually occured at this seminar, was that some bloke was standing next to chen when he was showing us his fajing sideways this bloke, standing next to him walked a bit too forward and got whacked square in the abdomen , and landed straight on his ass, he didnt buckle over or feel pain , he just sat immediately.

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by Wong Fei Hong
Funnily enough , i heard a story from chen xiaowang during a seminar, where a high ranking judoka from japan decided to ridicule him by rushing him (or one of his relatives/one of the other chen lineageholders ???) from behind and throwing him whilst he was demonstrating something.
apparently the judoka grabbed the top part of his body and without realising as a reaction, chenxiaowang elbow struck him with fajing, the blow lifted him off his feet and flipped him over head onto the ground.I remember he then told us something about how everyone got scared including him the guy would die. However he said something to the extent of if the guy urinated within the next few minutes and blood came out there was fear of severe internal damage. And the leakeage would drain chi and crack his internal system.Another incident that actually occured at this seminar, was that some bloke was standing next to chen when he was showing us his fajing sideways this bloke, standing next to him walked a bit too forward and got whacked square in the abdomen , and landed straight on his ass, he didnt buckle over or feel pain , he just sat immediately.

Yeah. Ok.

[Miles Teg]

It seems kind of strange that a Judo guy would rush a Tai Chi guy from behind unanounced. I cant honestly believe a top ranking Judo guy would do that. Even if he was succssfull it wouldnt show his skill or his superior fighting skill.

[SPJ]

Agreed.

[Doug]

What is the confusion here? This incident really happened. Chen Xiaowang has told it enough for anyone to read it in an article or magazine. A high-ranking judo practitioner tried to pull a fast one on the Chen stylist standard bearer, and he failed.

Doug M

[Miles Teg]

It still reaks of bull.

Imagine that you're a world class fighter and you want to fight some Tai CHi guy that not many people (especially in Japan) have heard of. This is weird in and of itself because Judo people are used to proving themselves in front of large audiences not in seminars where it wouldnt matter to the world what happened.

But anyway imagine you want to prove yourself in some way to show your skill or demonstrate Judo superiority. Would you:
a. Ask the guy to a public challenge, or at least a chanllenge right there and then
b. Try to provoke him enough so he knows he is going to have to fight you
c. Finish the job quickly by rushing up behind him while hes not looking and taking him out

If your a real jerk, you'd go with B. "A" would be something more befitting an actual champion. But C would dictate that the man is seriously disturbed. Judo takes a lot of heart, some intelligence, and hard work. I dont think a Judo guy would get satisfaction or pleassure from defeating an oponent like that.

Also having lived in Japan for 4 years this seems like very odd behaviour for Japanese person.