kyokushin and muay thai

[Falcor]

A humble question,

What is it about the kyokushin karate style and Muay Thai boxing that many so called hardcore fighters like them better than other styles? Everytime I get into a discussion with/about fighters, they sing the praises of KK and MT. It is my impression that the actual technical syllabus is not all that much difference from other karate and kickboxing styles. However, at least to me, what distinguishes them is the training methodology - lot of emphasis on impact training against pads, bags, and partners, lots of sparring, very...well, for lack of a better way of saying it, hardcore workouts. Is this analysis about correct?

[backbreaker]

And of course, the fact that Andy Hug was , if I'm not wrong, kyokushun. And most K-1 guys I think are Muay Thai. And cause they're hardcore.

[SevenStar]

there are technique differences also - you can't knee or elbow in american kickboxing, and the roundhouse kick is delivered differently - the american version is done tma style - chambered with a snap.

[Chang Style Novice]

As far as I can tell, you're exactly right. The main thing that some styles do to create better fighters that other styles don't is mix it up as hard as they can on a regular basis.

[Archangel]

Andy Hug was a Seido Kan fighter; it's an offshot of Oyama's Kyokushin Kai.

[MatT3T4]

Muay Thai is just a badass art. I mean, there really is no reason to delve into it, it just is, haha. I'm new to Kung Fu...and I really, really, REALLY love it. But I am also trained in Muay Thai. I've been studying martial arts for 10+ years, and have run the gambit in terms of training in several styles, and I have to say, so far, Muay Thai has been the most brutal. I started out with Tae Kwon Do...and while the "street" aspect of it really wasn't there...the workout it gave, and the fundamentals learned were astounding. After a few years of that, I moved to Muay Thai, and it blew my mind. My first class was insane. I really wasn't ready for it. Granted, I had been in Tae Kwon Do for about three years, and I was used to the old one hour class, and the same old same old. My first Muay Thai class lasted 4 and a half hours. I thought I was going to die. My first day there, I was in the ring fighting. It was so cool...

I remember the first thing Kru Rex said to me...he said, "when you know you are going to get into a fight, and the guy is in your face running his mouth...**** it, throw the first punch...don't wait for him to do it!" And right then, he threw what I think was an elbow past my nose so **** fast it was like a blur. That's not the kind of training you get in the more traditional martial arts. It's just different...at least where I trained...it has one goal, one reason...one purpose...and that is to be a devastating fighter.

I've never lost my Muay Thai tendencies. Subsequently, I went to American Kenpo, and Shorinjiryu Kempo...and I wasn't really a fan of them. I also studied some Kodokan Judo which was just way different than what I was used to, of course. But throughout all of these...I haven't lost any of the Muay Thai. My fighting stance is still my old Muay Thai fighting stance. I believe that one should tailor their art to fit themself, and that is what I am done. I am most comfortable in the Thai stance, and that is how I stand, even in Kung Fu.

If anyone is interested in cross-training, I definitely suggest Muay Thai as a great art to study as well.

[red5angel]

That's not the kind of training you get in the more traditional martial arts. It's just different...at least where I trained...it has one goal, one reason...one purpose...and that is to be a devastating fighter.

uh oh, I think MatT3T4 has found out the TMA guys secret, they don't actually train to be good fighters! now we can lay to rest why TMA sucks and MMA rocks.

[backbreaker]

Originally posted by Falcor
[B]A humble question,

What is it about the kyokushin karate style and Muay Thai boxing that many so called hardcore fighters like them better than other styles? Everytime I get into a discussion with/about fighters, they sing the praises of KK and MT.

Hmmmm. Sounds like someone 's been talking to bullshido members.

[red5angel]

you also have to understand that some of these things become fads of sorts. MMA started out as one. Muy Thai is easy to pick up and is useful and demonstrably effective, also easy to find. A few guys get out there and start kicking a$$, so people start reading their bios and see they took certain arts and start practicing those, especially if one art turns up more then others.

[Falcor]

Sevenstar, that's exactly my point. other forms of karate and arts derived from karate have techniques that are also in KK and MT. But the training emphasis is different and training methodology is different for the most part. But I was questing to find out if there are actual technical differeces (like the round house example you mentioned)? KK and MT guys _are_ (usually) in better physical shape, and physically better conditioned than a lot of other MAists, but again, it seems that this is due not to some fundamental difference in the art itself but in the training and the training culture and ethos associated with KK and MT.