Form lovers and Wushu players

[Ray Pina]

Why do you kick your hand?

[red5angel]

could be plenty of reasons. I don't do any forms that require that yet but I've seen it a lot in taichi and some wushu stuff. My guess is possibly - conditioning, something to aim for, to make a loud smacking noise that get's people's attention. It might simulate slapping a high kick?

[MasterKiller]

You don't slap your foot; you kick your hand to improve aim and to gauge power. Why do you stomp your feet in xingyi?

BTW, I find the title of this thread a little condescending, especially when it comes from someone who studies an art that contains forms.

[norther practitioner]

I was told conditioning and aim as well. Also, when doing forms, it can help judge power.

[sakko]

power for sure... alot of the little shy kids in my class need some serious work on throwing their punches and kicks out there harder. As they grow up hopefully they learn to put some power into it. But I can see how the kicking (and in our forms sometimes punching) of hands would help them get into the groove.

[oasis]

i see it as helping you focus your kick. as a beginner, one is inclined to often kick with the toes pointing straight up, and even if your instructor tells you to point your toes out (in order to stretch your ankles and develop your achilles), you may still keep kicking with the toes up. however, by having to slap 'the top of your foot,' you have a gauge to judge if you're kicking properly. if you are not, you will be slapping your toes (and some classmates even almost injured themselves by slapping their toenails! ).

and as MK said, it also gives your some height to try to aim for. if you feel that you're bringing your 'slapping hand' too low (below shoulder level i guess), then you know you're not kicking high enough.

just my experiences so far

[Judge Pen]

I have a question: Is this primarily a CMA thing to do? Are any karate or TKD students taught to kick their hand on certian kicks?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
I have a question: Is this primarily a CMA thing to do? Are any karate or TKD students taught to kick their hand on certian kicks?

I've never seen it anywhere but in CMA, but that ain't saying much.

[red5angel]

why "form lovers"? I do forms but I am not a "form lover".

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by red5angel
why "form lovers"? I do forms but I am not a "form lover".

The insinuation is that people who do forms do not fight. Funny, xingyi has forms, huh?

[Ray Pina]

To reinforce, to drill into your mind and muscle memory, that your hands and feet must work together, support each other. You should not be over extending with your foot to a place your hand can not support.

Perfect exmaple, Mark Kerr's face pounding in Smashing Machine vs Igor. He got ****ed, round house kicked him without controlling him, Igor caught it and decked him square. From there it was a matter of finishing him off.

My master tells us of Saving Private Ryan. You can't just drop your troops without support.

Related subject: Know that first you use Artillary, Tomahak missles, then heavy machine guns/tanks, than machine guns and small arms then the bayonette .... you don't want to use the bayonette when the othet guy is using bombs and missles. Each weapon has its time, and it always needs to be supported.

................

Good Hsing-I does not stomp the foot. A good rule of thumb (even in karate punching): if you can see the power, it is contained. By stomping you put the power into the floor. Anyone who understand chicken stepping and cannon fist knows the power goes --------->, and the strike lands before the front foot.

For the most part, those that stomp the floor do it for the same reason many kick their hand (the sound and wow factor). There is a reason, though.

[Mediocrity]

As we progress along, Sifu has us stomp our feet during forms as a way to make sure we get rooted. I guess it makes sure we put our whole foot down as we do it.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
I've never seen it anywhere but in CMA, but that ain't saying much.

I guess not, 'cause we do it.

The "stomp" is incidental in xing-yi. You are right, the force in chicken and cannon is horizontal, but the feet must root for the power to flow with a foundation behind it. Sometimes when people plant their rear foot (and I'm thinking of crushing hand in particular) their rear foot will make a sound and stomp, but the intent is cooridnating the hit with your body momentum moving forward while anchoring your foot so that there's no recoil back.

If someone just learning crushing had emphasises the stomp cause they want to sound like they have the proper mechanics and power generation, then its wrong.

Edit: Felipe Bido could clear this up for us pretty quickly.

[Ray Pina]

I kept the question simple as not to pollute responses.

Hsing-I does have "forms" but we train the idea of the form. Understand the principle of drill first, cannon first -- the animals, tiger head, swallow, hawk, then no matter the "form" you're in the principles are alive.

I find this makes fighting easier. Like chess. You can study all the openings in the world. But what if the guy does something else. Learn the principles, then you don;t have to study every game ever played.

I love forms! When the person does them with proper understanding. The only form I've bothered to remember is Chik Pu from Bak Mei. It's very short but a lot in there.

[red5angel]

Hsing-I does have "forms" but we train the idea of the form. Understand the principle of drill first, cannon first -- the animals, tiger head, swallow, hawk, then no matter the "form" you're in the principles are alive.

That should be the way anyone does them.