Leaning backwards?

[chen zhen]

How come all the WC masters you see in the old (and new) pictures are always leaning backwards, or hunching their backs? Does that have a specific purpose, or is it just bad form? because at my tai chi or xingyi classes I'm always corrected if I do it unconsciously, and taught that it's not possible to get real power in your punch if you hunch your back.
Sorry if this have already been posted

[hunt1]

No leaning back no crunching forward. Some may well have poor structure but pictures can be deceptive.

[chen zhen]

Look at Yip Man and BL in this pic. Don't say they aren't leaning. (and look at the bad foot position Bruce has, but that is off-topic.. )

edit: actually Yip Man is leaning more than BL. But maybe it's a bad example, I'll try to find a better one in a minute..

[Alpha Dog]

That's a great question for your Sifu. Ask him, see what he says, and if he can't answer you, get a new Sifu.

If he does answer you, please post it online.

[chen zhen]

I don't practise WC, so well..

[Alpha Dog]

That's too bad. Your teacher is right about the hunched back and its inability to generate power, though.

[chen zhen]

He showed me in a good way too, he let me strike a target in a relaxed way while in the hunched position, and then afterwards while having a straight back. I could definately feel the difference!
That's why I wonder why many WC'ers does it.

[Alpha Dog]

For everything the camera captures, there is something hidden.

[Wingman]

I don't think that the back is hunched in the picture. It just looks that way because WC keeps the arms in front and tucks the elbows in. In the picture, I can see that both YM & BL are leaning back a little. I was told that the more adept you are at WC, you tend to lead back. Maybe that's why WC masters tend to lean back. I don't really know the reason why they lean back because I'm not a WC master.

[Alpha Dog]

Wingman, who told you that?

[Wingman]

Originally posted by Alpha Dog
Wingman, who told you that?

My WC teacher. Unfortunately, he didn't tell me the reason why. Of course, he is no WC master, just a humble teacher.

[Alpha Dog]

Fair enough.

I'd like to hear from some of the more experienced WC practicioners online, if they can pull themselves away from talking about who taught whom what first and why, what they think about expert level WC being a leaning backward posture.

[Neurotic]

This is something I've had conversations about.

Alot of wing chun is pushing forward (duh!) so you are using (if someone has better anatomy than me, please correct me) mostly the front muscles on the shoulder, and pec (as well as other, i.e. tricep etc), however, there is not much excercise of the muscles on back that pull the shoulders back.

This probably doesn't explain it very well - however, it is likened to someone who spends a long time in front of a computer - the shoulders come foward, and the back curves (especially if they slouch) as the muscles at front will tighten. Thus if you work in front of your computer for long periods you should do exercises to stretch out your pecs, and constrict your back muscles, to stop this from happening.
(I find bell flys, and dumbell rows etc really help this)

Anyhow - back on topic - without proper excercise to balance these effects, you CAN get a curved back and shoulders from doing alot of chi sau, because you are constricting muscles at the front, and not at the back.

All in all - its not a GOOD thing, as its bad posture, and bad for your back. So make sure you work out your back muscles when you do wing chun!

[Alpha Dog]

Originally posted by Neurotic
This probably doesn't explain it very well - however, it is likened to someone who spends a long time in front of a computer - the shoulders come foward, and the back curves (especially if they slouch) as the muscles at front will tighten. Thus if you work in front of your computer for long periods you should do exercises to stretch out your pecs, and constrict your back muscles, to stop this from happening.
(I find bell flys, and dumbell rows etc really help this)

This is actually a very good sidebar (RR are you listening?): people who spend a lot of time at soul-killing office jobs, chained to their PCs (or who do so willingly), should spend time every day with the following exercise.

First, stand in a doorway with your forearms upward on each side and braced against the doorframe; push your chest forward until you feel the stretch and hold it for 30 seconds.

Next, bring your arms down slightly so they make a 90 degree angle with your sides; brace and hold for another 30 seconds.

Lastly, bring your arms down further and stretch again for another 30 seconds.

This will help to correct computer-related injury, which causes your shoulders to hunch forward and will limit the power of your punches and the integrity of your stance.

[chen zhen]

So to sum it up: It's a bad habit.

thanks