Strength Training Links

[TaichiMantis]

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...caveman_speaks


People with "lives' and work sechedules can't and as such need to realize that and not get discouraged.
This is applicable to MA training as well.

Can a true martial artist be a well rounded person? Everything I've observed points to no, except maybe later in life when they pursue tai chi

[sanjuro_ronin]

Originally Posted by TaichiMantis

Can a true martial artist be a well rounded person? Everything I've observed points to no, except maybe later in life when they pursue tai chi

Time is finite, that's for sure.

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...our_abs_really

Some of you will be surprised...

[air]

I am 33 years old when i was in my younger years, I use to lift heavy and often.

As I started to get older and wiser, I started incorporating more of a cardio routine mixed with a little bit of weight lifting, but lots of push ups, sit ups, crunches, leg drills..

I see weight lifting as a great way to maintain muscle mass, but as far as lifting like a power lifter or someone who lifts to sculpt their body its really a waste of energy for martial arts.

I do believe you have to train your body, but I believe you should train your body for application of technique. Styles like Wing chun, Tai Chi even aikido etc... Don't need to focus heavily on weight training. Shaolin systems like the 5 animals require a great deal of strength but very little weight lifting.

It is also my personal opinion that focusing on strength training more than focusing on martial training is a big mistake. While its true that if you are stronger you can beat someone else up who is weaker. (Unless you are dealing with someone who is a skilled fighter. )

I say become very weak, take your strength away and learn how to use your skill.

Its okay to be strong its even better to be skilled.

For martial art purposes, you can get by without ever lifting a weight and still become a excellent fighter. (if you are learning to defend yourself in real life under real conditions)

If you are competing the *rules* will require you to focus more on strength training.


The only tip I can give on weight lifting is don't over train I made that mistake a few times and ended up hurting myself and not being able to train for a few months.

It has been my personal experience that your body will tell you when it has had enough. Listen to it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

So, with every passing day it seems that we hear of another athlete that was "caught" using performance enhancing drugs ( Sammy Sosa being the latest).

It is time to consider that perhaps PED ( Performance enhancing drugs) are far more common place than ever suspected and that they seem to be "bread and butter" for high level performance.

[Frost]

I feel PED’s are so widespread that you almost have to use them to compete at a high level.

The only reason more do not test positive is that the testing protocols are always far behind the various masking agents used, and even when people are found out some are cleared by there governing bodies (Carl Lewis for one), and only comes to light years later

on subject below is a great site for strength training and conditioning for fighters, Joel has worked with many of the top MMA guys in the world, so unlike allot of the guys getting on the bandwagon for training fighters he actually speaks from experience.


http://www.8weeksout.com/

[sanjuro_ronin]

In the world of professional atheltes, one can hardly be competitive without PED.
The training demands on the body are so great that, even with enough rest ( which we never get) it is slmost impossibel to maintain that level for a consistent time.
Sure they cycle their training intensity, but as any good S&C coach knows and will tell you, its the gains made OUTSIDE the peaking for a match/contest, that will be the edge in said contest.

[Frost]

No argument from me I would make a bet that we all know athletes who looked into steroids to help them overcome nagging injuries, or enable then to train at the level and with the constancy they need to in order to be competitive. (In fact most of the guys I know who have looked into steroids have done so to aid recovery from injury) In MMA and combat sports where there is on off season, and where the technical demands are so great, I imagine the only thing that might be stopping people taking PEDS is the fact that they can’t afford to get caught by a random test, and they can’t afford the same masking agents and high cost doctors that track and field stars can, yet.

Maybe they should just level the playing field and allow the use of PEDS in all sports, its not like anyone believes any of these guys are 100 natural anymore

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have often said the samething, just let them do what they need to and hope for the best.
Problem is, sports has zero to do with health, it has to do with success, with winning and with $$$ and for that, atheltes will sell souls.
I know that PED are NOT regulated for the health of the athletes, but I truly think that, if any regulation is used it should be for THAT purpose.

[Frost]

Yep non of the things elite athletes do is good for them, most of the pro rugby players in the UK can hardly walk by the time they reach there mid 40's, football (sorry soccer) players need new kneecaps and hips, boxing has so many cases of brain damage and death as a direct result of fighting.

Why not level the playing field it will at least stop the snide remarks about who is and who is not natural, and as you said properly regulated and in the mainstream it might be better for the health of those who do chose to use

[sanjuro_ronin]

An update of sorts:
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a..._faster_longer

There is a part here that I wanted to make "stick out' because there is some confusion in regards to Tabata's:

Everybody wants to do everything these days. Everything at once! You have to do HIIT, have to do Tabatas, have to do snatches and clean and jerks, have to do all the powerlifts, have to do a bodybuilding workout, then you have to periodize it. And your nine-year-old kid? He's in a stroller at Disneyland.

• I almost want to call Izumi Tabata, the Japanese researcher, and apologize for all the Internet nonsense I've caused by my Tabata Method article.

• The issue with Tabata is that people think it's part of a workout. The truth is,

if done right, you'd need a gun to make an athlete do another set. Izumi had to practically force his athletes to get back on those bikes.

• If you do push-ups for 20 seconds, then rest for 10 seconds and continue that for 4 minutes, it is not the Tabata protocol. Tabata is 20 seconds on and 10 seconds off for 4 minutes, but the mere fact that you can do sit-ups and "Tabata" jumping jacks afterwards tells me that you're not doing the original plan.

• I made a mistake in the article saying that thrusters were okay. The more I did it and the longer I had athletes do it, the more I realized this was an absolute failure. It's terrible! There's only one weight-lifter exercise that works with Tabata: the front squat.

• If you do 115 pounds in the Tabata front squat, you will not at the end of those 4 minutes look at me and say, "Now what do I do for the next 4 minutes?"

No, you're going to do what I did when I used to do these in my driveway. You're going to lay there on the ground with your dog sniffing at you, worried about your life. You do not repeat a true Tabata workout.

It's an act of will to finish the last two minutes. You should be looking at the clock and thinking, "Only one more minute until I have one more minute!" That's a Tabata workout. And it only works with front squats.

Dan mentions front squats because he is a powerlifter but the crucial factor of Tabata's is that 4 mins is ALL that you can do.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

An update of sorts:
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a..._faster_longer

There is a part here that I wanted to make "stick out' because there is some confusion in regards to Tabata's:



Dan mentions front squats because he is a powerlifter but the crucial factor of Tabata's is that 4 mins is ALL that you can do.

He should also mention that the Tabata study is the most overblown study used in exercise, its proof that marketing works much better than science when it comes to selling products. I mean it’s hard as hell to do, but what exactly does it accomplish apart from making you puwk?

the original study he did only had 14 test subjects (how many scientific studies do you know with less than 15 people taking part) all relativity unfit, 7 did the protocol (plus 30 minutes a week of lsd work which is over looked) and the other group did lsd work for 6 weeks, then at the end they found that VO2 Max and anaerobic capacity were better improved by using anaerobic means then aerobic means, hardly ground breaking.

The group that used an anaerobic methods improved anaerobic capacity and the group that used a method that did not stress the anaerobic method did not (and there improvements in VO2 max happened mostly in the first 3 weeks, in the last three weeks they saw almost no improvements) whilst the aerobic groups VO2 max increased at a slower rate, it kept increasing and if the study group had continued for another 4 or 5 weeks would have probably surpassed that of the HIIT group. So HIIT training leads to greater immediate changes but tapers off and these changes are not very stable, no news there

Even using VO2 max as a measure of aerobic fitness is misleading, resting heart rate, heart rate recovery, heart rate at anaerobic threshold, and power output at anaerobic threshold are much better indicators of aerobic power and capacity and overall fitness.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Originally Posted by Frost

He should also mention that the Tabata study is the most overblown study used in exercise, its proof that marketing works much better than science when it comes to selling products. I mean it’s hard as hell to do, but what exactly does it accomplish apart from making you puwk?

the original study he did only had 14 test subjects (how many scientific studies do you know with less than 15 people taking part) all relativity unfit, 7 did the protocol (plus 30 minutes a week of lsd work which is over looked) and the other group did lsd work for 6 weeks, then at the end they found that VO2 Max and anaerobic capacity were better improved by using anaerobic means then aerobic means, hardly ground breaking.

The group that used an anaerobic methods improved anaerobic capacity and the group that used a method that did not stress the anaerobic method did not (and there improvements in VO2 max happened mostly in the first 3 weeks, in the last three weeks they saw almost no improvements) whilst the aerobic groups VO2 max increased at a slower rate, it kept increasing and if the study group had continued for another 4 or 5 weeks would have probably surpassed that of the HIIT group. So HIIT training leads to greater immediate changes but tapers off and these changes are not very stable, no news there

Even using VO2 max as a measure of aerobic fitness is misleading, resting heart rate, heart rate recovery, heart rate at anaerobic threshold, and power output at anaerobic threshold are much better indicators of aerobic power and capacity and overall fitness.

I think you need to look further into his study bro...

http://www.cbass.com/SEARCHOF.HTM

http://www.rosstraining.com/articles...intervals.html

[Frost]

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

I think you need to look further into his study bro...

http://www.cbass.com/SEARCHOF.HTM

http://www.rosstraining.com/articles...intervals.html

Thanks I have read the first study before so I read the second one now! I just think the study has been blown out of all proportion and it is used by people to bash steady state work and say all you need to do for aerobic and anaerobic training is 4 minutes of hard work, which I think distorts the study.

The first thing people tend to forget is that the HIIT group did one session of 30 minutes LSD work a week in addition to the intervals
Secondly to quote the study:

“Average VO2 max in group one was 52.9 (LSD group) in the second group it was 48.2 (HIIT Group)”

So the LSD group had a larger VO2 at the start, so they had a better aerobic system to begin with and would be less likely to see improvements in the 6 weeks


Also whilst the HIIT group saw good increases in VO2 mas in the first 3 weeks, in the second three weeks as tabata himself said “no significant changes were observed."

Whilst the LSD group saw smaller but steady increases over the whole 6 weeks.

So the study proved that HIIT causes better short term adaptations but they stall after a few weeks whilst LSD leads to slower but more steady progress

Also he only tested VO2 max for aerobic fitness, if Tabata had measured other variables such as changes in cardiac output and stroke volume, resting heart rate, anaerobic threshold, velocity at anaerobic threshold, etc. you would have got a different result

I also don’t like how people use tabata for bodyweight stuff, weights etc, the original study used the bike and subjects were very carefully monitored, once pedal speed dropped below a certain point the training was stopped as it was no longer considered beneficial, this is very different from simply trying to work as hard as you think you can doing burpees or running

Overall I think the study was useful but has been blown out of all proportion and used as an excuse not to do LSD work, threshold training or any other longer term aerobic training etc

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think that the what was blown out of proportion were the results of the Tabata protocol and how they were used to justify ANY type of HIIT and gave people the impression that what they were doing was the true Tabata protocol.
HIIT is great to compliment regular, moderate paced work, but it is not a subsititute nor is moderate work anything like HIIT.
They birds of a different feather.
The Tabata protocol is something to be cycled into your workout, it can't be your whole workout, at least not for very long, you'd die !
LOL !

Tabata won't get great long term results, nothing over 6 weeks that's for sure, because the PEAK is reached so quickly and because the body just can't handle it.
It is also a far better protocol for those that are already in good shape, it is NOT for the beginner or novice.