F.A.S.T. Defense???

[taijiquan_student]

What's up people. Haven't been to the main forum in a while, but I figured here is a better place than the internal forum to ask this question.

Have any of you ever heard of F.A.S.T. Defense before? It's one of those "reality" training things, or as they put it "Adrenal Stress Response Training". The main guy there is named Bill Kipp. They have guys in big suits that make them look like aliens curse at you real loud and attack you to get you all worked up.

If anyone here has done their workshop before or has heard anything about them I'd like to know whatever you know.

They are having a F.A.S.T. Defense seminar at my senior's school just out of Philly, and I just wanted to see what the word on the street was about the system, if anyone's heard of it at all. My school and my teacher are thinking of going to it during November, our school's "Hell Month" in san shou (free fighting) class. My teacher does get tired of beating the crap out of us every week, you know.

(one of the things I noticed from looking at their website, fastdefense.com, is that you have the guy in the alien suit, but the people taking the seminar are attacking the guy with no padding. Because of legal issues, I'm guessing the guys [if they can even move in those suits] aren't going to break your nose or knock you out. So it seems like you can pound away at this guy knowing that you're in no real physical danger. Just a thought)

[Ryu]

Haven't seen the site, but this is my opinion. I don't like the big "alien head" suits. I do agree that it can still work to bring up an adrenal response, but from a reality perspective it's a bit unrealistic for several reasons.

The huge head (sometimes up to 4 feet wide) gives a "no miss" target that DOES NOT happen in a real encounter.

Because the training is geared towards just pummeling the suited man, there is little to no "contact" to the attacker himself. He doesn't have to worry about the suited man fighting back. He just sits back and takes abuse.

Some of the "suit" drills that I've seen have been too.... well almost "fun." It's fun to hit the big head. The adrenal response gets replaced with excitement. You don't necessarily want to do this.
*note* This last statement is only made from certain drills I've seen. I have not seen all of them, and haven't participated in the big head drills myself. So there is definitely room for me to be off base about that.

My training conists of just tight face mask headgear, gloves, and extreme antagonism. That includes violent pushing, cussing, in your face scenarios designed to really make you "afraid" of what might or might not be coming.
If I hit the "attacker" with a first strike, it's up to me to keep the pressure on and drop him. If I don't he counters and we have to fight (spar) from where ever we end up. Usually in close, or on the ground.
When grappling and using newaza on the ground you have to add strikes, headbutts, etc. Even eye gouges (race masks are on) etc. You're not trying to give each other a concussion, but it has to be pretty much full contact.

Ryu

[Royal Dragon]

Are these the guys who use the imfamous "Red Man" Suits at Woman's self defence courses??

[taijiquan_student]

"The huge head (sometimes up to 4 feet wide) gives a "no miss" target that DOES NOT happen in a real encounter.

Because the training is geared towards just pummeling the suited man, there is little to no "contact" to the attacker himself. He doesn't have to worry about the suited man fighting back. He just sits back and takes abuse."

I agree.

"Some of the "suit" drills that I've seen have been too.... well almost "fun." It's fun to hit the big head. The adrenal response gets replaced with excitement. You don't necessarily want to do this."

I never thought about this, but it makes sense. Interesting.

I have a feeling we're still going to go up to his school and do it, but I appreciate the comments. If anyone else has experience with them or ideas about the system from their site (fastdefense.com), post away.

[Ryu]

I definitely think going up there would be of great benefit.
Remember, that my adrenal response type training is a bit more..."hardcore" then some of the more PC type training. That doesn't necessarily make mine "better" though. Just want to get that out of the way.

Also you have to be really careful about adrenaline response training because you can seriously traumatize people too if you're not careful. Some have to be eased into harsher drills and scenarios. That's fine.

Simply diving right into scary and intimidating scenario drilling with a person who is a "virgin" to that type of training is not only potentially dangerous and emotionally hurtful, but downright sadistic too.

Ryu

[LEGEND]

FAST Defense is exactly what it sounds like! It's for people that want to learn HIT AND RUN martial arts. They don't want to be the next BRUCE LEE or FRANK SHAMROCK. They want a CRASH COURSE and that's what it is. HIT FIRST...to the FACE and RUN. The FAST Defense is similar to what TONY BLAUER teaches on handling street scenarios...on how to handle the aspect of FEAR. While most of us handle it thru SPARRING and FULL CONTACT DRILLs. They handle it based on SCENARIO TRAINING. It's all good.

[Budokan]

I suppose it provides a sense of accomplishment and a chance to actually hit a "live" target for people who are often drawn to this type of pseudo-combat interaction: women and children.

There's nothing inherently wrong in that, as long as they underestand the training they are undergoing is NOT meant to be taken as proof they will be effective in a street situation. While we have a lot of waterheads down here in the south, even those don't have the radius of these "big heads" used in FAST or other simlilar training regimens.

[Budokan]

It also seems to me that F.A.S.T. training would make you ineffective against pinheads like Zippy, or the Snowball Twins on Tod Browning's classic movie, "Freaks". Many of which we have in a multitude of abundance down here in the south....

[neptunesfall]

jeez that movie was messed up.

[The Willow Sword]

these guys dress up like aliens and use harsh language at you to provoke an adrenaline response????

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Ryu]

Despite my dislike of the big heads, I will say that if done correctly, these types of drills really can set a response. Especially in people who have never done them before....

I'd check out Sammy Franco's drills to see what I mean.

Ryu

[KC Elbows]

I'd say it sounds pretty standard as far as what they're training. In and of itself, I wouldn't say it sounds fishy or anything.

Plus, it reaffirms what I consider to be good habits: if that elephant man ****er is gonna come after YOU, where are YOU gonna hit? You might think it's funny, but you won't laugh when it's your family.

[Ryu]

Nice signature quote