As much crap as kung fu gets for not being effective, it does have its uses

[IronFist]

One time I pak da'ed a guy who was holding a box cutter to my chest. It was the right technique for that situation. A pak da is a simultaneous pak sao (pushing away block using the palm of the hand) and straight punch. It looks kind of like this. Note, I have no idea who that is a picture of, I just pulled it from Google Images.

Now I probably wouldn't pak da a guy throwing a punch at me in a fight (based on testing at an MMA gym*), but when his arm was already extended, and my arms were already kind of at shoulder height, elbows in (imagine a confused, "I don't know" type posture), it worked.

Of course, the criticism of TMA techniques is that they only work if your opponent leaves his arm extended. This guy did. But like I said, I probably wouldn't do it in a fight*.

The lesson here is to use what is appropriate at the time.

Fortunately the situation didn't escalate into anything bigger.

While I would probably not use WC techniques in a fight when I am already squared off against my opponent*, I have found that some WC techniques do work well for an initial response if you are just standing there and are startled by an attack out of nowhere. Not that that happens very often



*people are going to say "if you couldn't make it work then you obviously weren't doing it right" (to which I would reply "if it works for you, then keep using it! It didn't work for me so I stopped using it.")

[RWilson]

So I guess this means wing chun does work? Who'da thunk it? Bawang is going to throw a fit when he finds out the might wc have workethed.

[Robinhood]

Originally Posted by IronFist

One time I pak da'ed a guy who was holding a box cutter to my chest. It was the right technique for that situation. A pak da is a simultaneous pak sao (pushing away block using the palm of the hand) and straight punch. It looks kind of like this. Note, I have no idea who that is a picture of, I just pulled it from Google Images.

Now I probably wouldn't pak da a guy throwing a punch at me in a fight (based on testing at an MMA gym*), but when his arm was already extended, and my arms were already kind of at shoulder height, elbows in (imagine a confused, "I don't know" type posture), it worked.

Of course, the criticism of TMA techniques is that they only work if your opponent leaves his arm extended. This guy did. But like I said, I probably wouldn't do it in a fight*.

The lesson here is to use what is appropriate at the time.

Fortunately the situation didn't escalate into anything bigger.

While I would probably not use WC techniques in a fight when I am already squared off against my opponent*, I have found that some WC techniques do work well for an initial response if you are just standing there and are startled by an attack out of nowhere. Not that that happens very often



*people are going to say "if you couldn't make it work then you obviously weren't doing it right" (to which I would reply "if it works for you, then keep using it! It didn't work for me so I stopped using it.")

The only fights that start from being squared off are sport fights, I have never seen a real fight start that way.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Originally Posted by Robinhood

The only fights that start from being squared off are sport fights, I have never seen a real fight start that way.

You need to get out more.
Outside of surprise attacks, that is what you most typically get.

[Robinhood]

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

You need to get out more.
Outside of surprise attacks, that is what you most typically get.

I guess that depends on your definition of squared off.

[bawang]

sorry to disappoint you but chinese martial art is a sport. it was very common to square off in ancient china.

you stereotype chinese martial artists as weak peopel who must use deception , schemes, and treachery to win fights.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Originally Posted by Robinhood

I guess that depends on your definition of squared off.

The moment that all parties involve know its a fight, they are "squared off".
Regardless of where their hands may be.

[jmd161]

From my experience all martial arts have something useful! It all comes down to how it's taught, trained and absorbed/used... I think too much cma training is taught in a counter productive manner. I see too much if someone does this you do this type teaching/training... I think that leads to more confusion than actual fighting knowledge.

I see too many people when sparring say you were suppose to do this or that... they're too busy looking for a particular technique. I've sparred guys and had them say "you can't do that!" to which I just laugh...

[IronFist]

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

The moment that all parties involve know its a fight, they are "squared off".
Regardless of where their hands may be.

This.

Originally Posted by jmd161

From my experience all martial arts have something useful! It all comes down to how it's taught, trained and absorbed/used... I think too much cma training is taught in a counter productive manner. I see too much if someone does this you do this type teaching/training... I think that leads to more confusion than actual fighting knowledge.

In my experience there are certain techniques that seem to have a higher chance of success than others.

Since styles are just collections of specific techniques (which is why you can tell if someone is doing TKD or kung fu or karate techniques, etc.), it stands to reason that certain styles are more effective than others.

In my experience, I cannot make Wing Chun work against a (non-WC) resisting opponent (with the exception of a noob), so I don't use it when squared off.

In my experience, some of Wing Chun's simultaneous block/punch techniques have proven to be useful when I am not expecting an attack but when I see it coming (99% of the time this is just like if you and your friends are messing around at a party or something). Obviously if it's a sucker punch that you don't even see coming, there really isn't any technique that will be effective against it.

In my experience (the example in the first post), Wing Chun's pak da technique was useful for me when someone already had their arm extended and held up to my chest. In hindsight I suppose grabbing his wrist and punching may have been more effective than just pak'ing it and punching, but I didn't think at the time. I was just reacting.

I see too many people when sparring say you were suppose to do this or that... they're too busy looking for a particular technique. I've sparred guys and had them say "you can't do that!" to which I just laugh...

That's because they've never sparred against resisting opponents before and when they experience it it is outside of their comfort zone of cooperative opponents where they know what is coming ahead of time.

[jmd161]

Originally Posted by IronFist

This.



In my experience there are certain techniques that seem to have a higher chance of success than others.

Since styles are just collections of specific techniques (which is why you can tell if someone is doing TKD or kung fu or karate techniques, etc.), it stands to reason that certain styles are more effective than others.

In my experience, I cannot make Wing Chun work against a (non-WC) resisting opponent (with the exception of a noob), so I don't use it when squared off.

In my experience, some of Wing Chun's simultaneous block/punch techniques have proven to be useful when I am not expecting an attack but when I see it coming (99% of the time this is just like if you and your friends are messing around at a party or something). Obviously if it's a sucker punch that you don't even see coming, there really isn't any technique that will be effective against it.

In my experience (the example in the first post), Wing Chun's pak da technique was useful for me when someone already had their arm extended and held up to my chest. In hindsight I suppose grabbing his wrist and punching may have been more effective than just pak'ing it and punching, but I didn't think at the time. I was just reacting.



That's because they've never sparred against resisting opponents before and when they experience it it is outside of their comfort zone of cooperative opponents where they know what is coming ahead of time.

Yes there are techniques that are more effective than others.. I would agree that certain styles are more effective than others also but, it depends on what we're talking about. I would expect a TKD stylist to be a much more effective kicker than myself... I think if you use a technique from a style like it was intended than it should work. This does not mean all techniques are mutually effective but there are instances where each style should have effective techniques. Like my sifu always says... every style has something to offer.. you take the good and trash the rest!

I have never trained Wing Chun... we do have similar techniques within Hak Fu. My sifu will show a technique and explain this is how we do it... and then show how Wing Chun's differes... He will then explain the reason why we do it the way we do. I can see the effectiveness in certain techniques WC uses... I can also understand why we use them in the manner we do!

[SPJ]

Originally Posted by IronFist

While I would probably not use WC techniques in a fight when I am already squared off against my opponent*, I have found that some WC techniques do work well for an initial response if you are just standing there and are startled by an attack out of nowhere. Not that that happens very often

If you watch Jackie Chan or Jet Li movies,

JC are mostly running and dodging, because both JC and JL are short figures with short arms and legs.

If somehow they are cornered such as in a narrow alley or toilet room

guess what their WC came out and excelled.

Fight your fight.

Get into the conditions that are good for your fighting skills.

etc etc.

Otherwise, you fight yours and I fight mine.

Do not get into conditions that you may not fight well.

How?

running and dodging 99% of the time.

Actually, that is why people like to watch JC movies.

Lots of running and dodging.

You many count how many minutes of fighting scenes are running and dodging in each and every JC movies from 1970s to today.

[IronFist]

Originally Posted by SPJ

If you watch Jackie Chan or Jet Li movies,

JC are mostly running and dodging, because both JC and JL are short figures with short arms and legs.

If somehow they are cornered such as in a narrow alley or toilet room

guess what their WC came out and excelled.

Fight your fight.

Get into the conditions that are good for your fighting skills.

etc etc.

Otherwise, you fight yours and I fight mine.

Do not get into conditions that you may not fight well.

How?

running and dodging 99% of the time.

Actually, that is why people like to watch JC movies.

Lots of running and dodging.

You many count how many minutes of fighting scenes are running and dodging in each and every JC movies from 1970s to today.

Did you seriously just compare kung fu movies to real life fighting?

And your posts are still hard to read.

Like a haiku.