Weight training for TCMA

[wenshu]

Originally Posted by Frost

Actually strength is better build by low reps and high weights, ask any pro coach who trains guys for the the 225pound bench test and most will tell you they increase max strength first rather than just keep trying to do more reps at 225

Its a point all strength athletes, most S and C coaches for pro teams and other agree on, but hey you know better right

You would have been better served by that impotent appeal to authority if I had actually made any claim about what is better. I didn't say shit about whether or not high reps is a good idea for strength building. (I actually think it's a horrible idea)

I was addressing the abortion of logic and intuition that posits that just because someone can max out at a high weight they will naturally be able to do high reps with a lower weight. They could certainly do a lot but not more than someone who specifically trains in that context.

Since oversimplified analogies are so popular around here.
It's like a sprinter vs a marathon runner, I'm sure the sprinter can run a marathon just fine, they'd certainly do a damn sight better than 99.9% of novices and weekend warriors, likewise a marathon runner in the 100m dash.

I don't need to drop the names of every track and field coach I've been within a twenty mile radius of to know who is going to win when you match them up against each other in each respective context.

[YouKnowWho]

I may use the following 3 weight equipments different from others.

I like to use my arms to twist this machine with 180 lb weight 60 times clockwise and 60 times counter clockwise. 60 is always my favor number. I like to train "arms rotation" movement. There are not many machines in the gym designed for that purpose.

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6186/rotarytorso.jpg

I also like to use my lower leg to back lift, and use upper leg to front lift 100 lb on this machine 60 times on each leg.

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/1774/legmachine.jpg

This is my major training equipment. I like to work on 60 lb weight in a total of 340 pulls in 11 different ways.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7906/weightpulley5.jpg

[Eric Olson]

Originally Posted by Frost

This is what you said, and it is plainly the wrong way to go round building strength

If you are doing the exact same strength building exercise then I see no qualitative difference whether its between spurts of cardio or not. Its the same exercise. The difference is you are being asked to perform it in a situation that would mirror real combat, when you're gassed.

Its why every top MMA coach has their guys do specific strength days,

That's fine if you have the time to break out days or hours to train specific things. I suppose they break out days just for boxing or just for rolling or to train strength in their left toe. We're not all professional athletes and the most bang for your buck will come from the training the way i mentioned.

why every professional sports team has separate strength and conditioning phases and why no powerlifter or strength athlete will train this way

I think training to fight requires a particular kind of training. You have to be able to call on strength when you're already gasping for breath. What other sports require that? Sports like powerlifting have no place in this discussion because that's just strength for strength's sake.

Now you can say im talking about conditioning, or this form of physical training, but the fact remains you stated you are building your strength through circuits and this doesn’t work unless you are as weak as a kitten

See my first point. You assume I'm talking about high-rep exercises. It could just as easily be low rep, high weight. Or assuming we're talking about body weight, it could be a one-arm push up vs. regular push ups.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Eric Olson

If you are doing the exact same strength building exercise then I see no qualitative difference whether its between spurts of cardio or not. Its the same exercise. The difference is you are being asked to perform it in a situation that would mirror real combat, when you're gassed. .

if you really think you need to do some actual research on the subject, seriously

Originally Posted by Eric Olson

That's fine if you have the time to break out days or hours to train specific things. I suppose they break out days just for boxing or just for rolling or to train strength in their left toe. We're not all professional athletes and the most bang for your buck will come from the training the way i mentioned. .

thats why they invented this thing called periodization a few decades ago.

Originally Posted by Eric Olson

I think training to fight requires a particular kind of training. You have to be able to call on strength when you're already gasping for breath. What other sports require that? Sports like powerlifting have no place in this discussion because that's just strength for strength's sake.

Lets see, wrestling, rugby, OZ rules football need i go on, and they all use powerlfting/strength training cycles
powerlifting is the best way to build maximum strength, what you use that strength for is up to you

Originally Posted by Eric Olson

See my first point. You assume I'm talking about high-rep exercises. It could just as easily be low rep, high weight. Or assuming we're talking about body weight, it could be a one-arm push up vs. regular push ups.

Nope im assuming you are doing them circuit style with little rest, in which case doesnt matter how you are doing the exercises and the rep range you are using its still a silly way to build strength

[Eric Olson]

Originally Posted by Frost

if you really think you need to do some actual research on the subject, seriously

thats why they invented this thing called periodization a few decades ago.

Periodization really has nothing to do with it. Throw in high-rep, low-weight exercise in between your cardio if you like and only do your strength stuff once a month. It really makes no difference.

Lets see, wrestling, rugby, OZ rules football need i go on, and they all use powerlfting/strength training cycles
powerlifting is the best way to build maximum strength, what you use that strength for is up to you

You know who does train the way I'm talking about. The US military. Google "readiness training". Or watch the Ninja Warrior challenge on TV. These things require strength and endurance.

Nope im assuming you are doing them circuit style with little rest, in which case doesnt matter how you are doing the exercises and the rep range you are using its still a silly way to build strength

It's a good way to train for fighting/combat.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Eric Olson

Periodization really has nothing to do with it. Throw in high-rep, low-weight exercise in between your cardio if you like and only do your strength stuff once a month. It really makes no difference.



You know who does train the way I'm talking about. The US military. Google "readiness training". Or watch the Ninja Warrior challenge on TV. These things require strength and endurance.



It's a good way to train for fighting/combat.

nope sparring is a good way to train for combat, and periodization has everything to do with it

[Eric Olson]

Originally Posted by Frost

nope sparring is a good way to train for combat, and periodization has everything to do with it

Just so people aren't confused about periodization (which gets thrown around a lot on these boards like its some magic word), it's basically a resistance training program followed over the course of about a month. Every week you change the type of sets that you are doing so the muscle is constantly challenged. For example, here's program that I was following (based on the book "You Are Your Own Gym", which is all body weight and BTW the author trains Navy Seals):

Week 1: Ladders
Week 2: Power sets
Week 3: Stappers
Week 4: Tabatas
Week 5: Rest

What does this have to do with integrating cardio in between your sets? Nothing.

[wenshu]

Originally Posted by Eric Olson

Just so people aren't confused about periodization (which gets thrown around a lot on these boards like its some magic word), it's basically a resistance training program followed over the course of about a month. Every week you change the type of sets that you are doing so the muscle is constantly challenged. For example, here's program that I was following (based on the book "You Are Your Own Gym", which is all body weight and BTW the author trains Navy Seals):

Week 1: Ladders
Week 2: Power sets
Week 3: Stappers
Week 4: Tabatas
Week 5: Rest

What does this have to do with integrating cardio in between your sets? Nothing.

No, Eric Olson.

Exercise science from late night basic cable infomercials is a bad idea.

what-does-periodization-mean-and-how-does-it-work

[Eric Olson]

Originally Posted by wenshu

No, Eric Olson.

Exercise science from late night basic cable infomercials is a bad idea.

what-does-periodization-mean-and-how-does-it-work

So when is the "season" for fighting? Sorry, you have to be ready all the time. That's why you'd be better off looking at how the military trains rather than athletes or sport fighters.

Not to say you can't incorporate periodization but its done in micro-cycles, not over the course of an entire year.

[wenshu]

Then stick to Beachbody© p90x©, teh muscle confusioning, Crossfit bullshit and you can reap the benefits of perptual novice gains and being weak as shit while deluding yourself that you train like elite military and LEO operators.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by wenshu

Then stick to Beachbody© p90x©, teh muscle confusioning, Crossfit bullshit and you can reap the benefits of perptual novice gains and being weak as shit while deluding yourself that you train like elite military and LEO operators.

Actually, the military has a ridiculous love for crossfit right now, especially in the SF and Infantry world. I did CF while training up with my team before we went to Afghanistan. I didn't like it, on a personal level, but you can't deny it works amazingly well for doing the sort of tasks we do.

So yeah, if you are doing CF or something similar, your training IS pretty similar to what elites use. However, that's just the fitness aspect.

[Drake]

And I've never met a weak CF person. They usually max the APFT in the Army with ease.

[wenshu]

Originally Posted by Drake

Actually, the military has a ridiculous love for crossfit right now, especially in the SF and Infantry world. I did CF while training up with my team before we went to Afghanistan. I didn't like it, on a personal level, but you can't deny it works amazingly well for doing the sort of tasks we do.

So yeah, if you are doing CF or something similar, your training IS pretty similar to what elites use. However, that's just the fitness aspect.

Is getting injured needlessly one of those tasks? Cause it's a great way to do that.

I'm aware of the popularity of Crossfit in the military and LEO circles, but civilians who do Crossfit are still deluding themselves if they think they train like elite warriors.

"Warriors kill shit, the only thing you kill is exercise science and the board short display at Target."

http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=42448

How much of the Crossfit in the military actually follows the mainpage Crossfit "programming"? When Crossfit works it's generally because people apply actual periodization principles to it and then it's really nothing more than HIIT and calisthenics which has been around a helluva lot longer than Crossfit. Even the "atheletes" who win those stupid calisthenics "competitions" admit readily that they don't follow the original Crossfit "programming".

[Drake]

Originally Posted by wenshu

Is getting injured needlessly one of those tasks? Cause it's a great way to do that.

I'm aware of the popularity of Crossfit in the military and LEO circles, but civilians who do Crossfit are still deluding themselves if they think they train like elite warriors.

"Warriors kill shit, the only thing you kill is exercise science and the board short display at Target."

http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=42448

How much of the Crossfit in the military actually follows the mainpage Crossfit "programming"? When Crossfit works it's generally because people apply actual periodization principles to it and then it's really nothing more than HIIT and calisthenics which has been around a helluva lot longer than Crossfit. Even the "atheletes" who win those stupid calisthenics "competitions" admit readily that they don't follow the original Crossfit "programming".

Considering we were given a free membership to a local crossfit gym, I'd say pretty **** close. Most of the guys I work with follow the website pretty closely, and are always talking about the WoD.

It's high intensity and develops very good explosive strength, as well as all around comprehensive fitness. You don't have to like it, but arguing that it's bad for you is pretty dumb. I've seen many more people injured through other exercise programs than through CF. As far as I've seen, out of the dozens of those I know doing CF, only one has ever been hurt... and that was me, and it was my fault.

[wenshu]

Originally Posted by Drake

And I've never met a weak CF person. They usually max the APFT in the Army with ease.

That's not really a good indicator of strength.

Didn't they hobble the everloving shit out of those standards to account for morbidly obese people?