Reasons to study TCMA (IronFist likes TCMA)

[IronFist]

It's a bummer that last thread got deleted before I could read the most recent replies. I was out all day and just got home and I saw the thread got deleted.

Alright, everyone things I hate TMA. Just to play nice, I'm going to make a thread about all the things I like about TMA.

Reasons to study TMA:

1) Because you enjoy it. Duh, and this is really the only reason anyone needs. Fortunately everyone here who studies TCMA realizes this is the only thing that matters and don't let other people get under their skin and resort to personal insults when someone says something they disagree with. Oh... wait...

2) Fitness. Look, most TMA schools won't get you into ideal shape, but they will get you into a whole lot better of shape than most people are already in. If you are doing acrobatic forms this is even more true. You also learn to coordinate your breathing with your movement which can be helpful in other areas of life. And flexibility is a big component of TMA as well. Most people aren't very flexible. Study TCMA. Become flexible.

3) Culture. MA is intricately tied in to Asian culture and a lot of westerners who may not really have much "culture" of their own tend to be drawn to this. This one is a given if you're Asian and you're studying TMA. But for many people it's a doorway into the world of Asian culture. Even on this forum, look at the white guys who have learned Chinese because of their martial arts, or traveled to China, or discovered a new interest (Asian history). This enriches your life in a way that is beyond the physical.

4) Cool factor. Everyone thinks martial arts are cool. And the ladies dig it. especially if you can do it fast to music. Plus you can totally impress (non-MMA) people if you bust out a flashy move when they say "oh, you study martial arts?"

5) Respect, discipline. Some people lack this stuff, but the one thing I will say about most TMA schools is that if you aren't respectful, you get kicked out. Of course you can still come on forums and make personal insults when people say things you disagree with, but that wouldn't fly in a legit school.

6) Brotherhood. You meet some awesome people in the martial arts. I've found almost exclusively that people who are into martial arts are either really cool people or really weird people, so there's like a 50/50 chance that a fellow MAist will be cool. And if you're both weird, then you'll be friends, too! Now, within a single school, I've met some cool people and also been to other schools (just visiting as a guest of one of the students or instructors) and seen the cool bond that they all have. Social groups are important to people, and you can get this from TMA.

7) Mental toughness. Even though holding a horse stance for long periods of time has no carryover into fighting, it still builds mental toughness. It's easy to give up because it sucks before your muscles actually give up. Seriously if you can hold a horse stance past the "holy crap my thighs are burning point" you can pretty much do anything. And bonus points for improving your focus if you do qigong (and if you believe it helps you).

8) It's fun. Seriously this time. Practicing TMAs is fun. You feel like you are connected to an ancient tradition and that gives you a good feeling. And when you see yourself making progress it's a great feeling.

Really, the only negatives are that you're not really learning to defend yourself against a resisting attack despite building the false confidence that you can do so. Generally speaking everything else about TMA is a positive.

So if your goals are primarily to learn how to fight, look into MMA. If that's not your primary goal, find a good T(C)MA school. In my youth (and even as a young adult) I had a blast studying TCMA. The only reason I left was because I was unable to defend myself against resisting opponents using TCMA, but my primary purpose was to be able to fight competently. Your goals may be different.

Not everyone who studies guitar wants to be able to play heavy metal.

I will even go so far as to say that training in MMA, while it was awesome, didn't have some of the "magic" that TCMA had. I mean still most of these things apply, but, I dunno, like some of the magic was gone. Although that could be because I had the fighting illusion shattered and was studying MMA because I had to (in order to be able to fight competently against a resisting opponent, which was my primary goal for studying martial arts) rather than because I wanted to (because of the coolness/fun factor).

I don't hate TCMA, I just hate that MMA more closely approximates real fighting.

[YouKnowWho]

Sometime we just pick up whatever style that is availeble to us at the moment that we need it. What will you do if a local gang member tells you that he will kill you next time you 2 meet? If you can get a firearm, you should get it ASAP. If firearm is not available, you should get a knife and carry it with you 24/7. What else do you need? You will need some combat skill. Do you care what style that you may train? Probably not. All you care is next time you 2 meet, you will not be killed. After you had life experience like that, the word "style" will have no meaning to you for the rest of your life.

[IronFist]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

Sometime we just pick up whatever style that is availeble to us at the moment that we need it. What will you do if a local gang member tells you that he will kill you next time you 2 meet? If you can get a firearm, you should get it ASAP. If firearm is not available, you should get a knife and carry it with you 24/7. What else do you need? You will need some combat skill. Do you care what style that you may train? Probably not. All you care is next time you 2 meet, you will not be killed. After you had life experience like that, the word "style" will have no meaning to you for the rest of your life.

Uh, yeah. If you believe what they said in the other thread that TCMA takes years to get good at, it probably wouldn't be the right choice.

Regardless, if your goal is to be able to fight ASAP, it absolutely matters what style you pick. Gun, Knife, MMA.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by IronFist

Uh, yeah. If you believe what they said in the other thread that TCMA takes years to get good at, it probably wouldn't be the right choice.

Regardless, if your goal is to be able to fight ASAP, it absolutely matters what style you pick. Gun, Knife, MMA.

MMA was not available back in my time.

I have always believed that fighting should come before form (or drill) training. The funny thing is I may have learned more forms than anybody on this forum.

Here is an article that I publiched back in Sep, 1991 in Inside Kungfu magazine.

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/1...fuarticle1.jpg

[IronFist]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

MMA was not available back in my time.

I have always believed that fighting should come before form (or drill) training. The funny thing is I may have learned more forms than anybody on this forum.

Here is an article that I publiched back in Sep, 1991 in Inside Kungfu magazine.

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/1...fuarticle1.jpg

Nice article, dropping truth bombs back in 1991.

And I absolutely agree that doing calisthenics in class is a waste of time.

If done, they should be optional. The argument being that some people may not have time to do them at home (super busy people), but don't make the other people do them if they don't want to because they may be on some other training regimen that could get messed up by the addition of mandatory calisthenics in class. For example, certain weight training programs could get screwed up if the student is required to do a few sets of pushups to failure in class. I'm sure that's the minority of people, but still.

[SPJ]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

Sometime we just pick up whatever style that is availeble to us at the moment that we need it. What will you do if a local gang member tells you that he will kill you next time you 2 meet? If you can get a firearm, you should get it ASAP. If firearm is not available, you should get a knife and carry it with you 24/7. What else do you need? You will need some combat skill. Do you care what style that you may train? Probably not. All you care is next time you 2 meet, you will not be killed. After you had life experience like that, the word "style" will have no meaning to you for the rest of your life.

Agreed. The primordial reason is not to get hurt or killed.

Growing up in the Police and military dormitory or villages

I was thrown around by all bunch of kids older than me.

Learn some shuai jiao quickly. How to fall safely quickly.

After a few lessons from my uncle and cousins (they were in Taiwan police forces)

Village kids left me alone. They could not throw me around without being counter thrown by me.

I was named shuai jiao kids or shuai xiao zi.

Eating dirts a lot on the floor made me learn things quickly.

---

[Raipizo]

Originally Posted by SPJ

Agreed. The primordial reason is not to get hurt or killed.

Growing up in the Police and military dormitory or villages

I was thrown around by all bunch of kids older than me.

Learn some shuai jiao quickly. How to fall safely quickly.

After a few lessons from my uncle and cousins (they were in Taiwan police forces)

Village kids left me alone. They could not throw me around without being counter thrown by me.

I was named shuai jiao kids or shuai xiao zi.

Eating dirts a lot on the floor made me learn things quickly.

---

Absolutely ground fighting and tumbles are important if you learn only on your feet you're missing out on at least 50% of what a fight could turn into. That kinda came out weird but I'm sure you know what I mean.

[Subitai]

Well if you asked me to select any of those reasons (8 points) you listed or any that apply:

I'd definately select ALL 8, especially since this is supposed to be a positive thread, I can't really argue with those reasons.

"O"

[IronFist]

Originally Posted by Subitai

Well if you asked me to select any of those reasons (8 points) you listed or any that apply:

I'd definately select ALL 8, especially since this is supposed to be a positive thread, I can't really argue with those reasons.

"O"

I agree. All 8 apply.

[Snipsky]

I don't hate TCMA, I just hate that MMA more closely approximates real fighting.

for sure more closely since MMA doesn't have anything other than fighting to deal with. i'd bet my life on it that if TCMA stopped putting their focus on forms, chi cultivation, meditation, and what not and put it on their fighting, TCMA would be known for its fighting.

certain styles of TCMA may not be geared towards real fighting. I tend to lean towards the Choy Lay Fut a bit because they do seem to do a bit of fighting than the other systems. in fact they are doing well against muay thai fighters at the moment.

[SimonM]

9: one of the less broken melee weapon traditions

Seriously, this matters. I could get by just fine on boxing and wrestling and still find at least 5 or 6 of your 8 reasons, but not with integrated weapon training.

[Raipizo]

And I agree with you Ironfist but some of it depends on the instructor

[mooyingmantis]

Originally Posted by Raipizo

And I agree with you Ironfist but some of it depends on the instructor

Ironfist,
Wonderful points in your first post.

Raipizo,
So true!

Some TCMA styles are more practical for fighting than others. And some TCMA styles take longer to develop the skills to be able to fight.

But for the most part, I blame BAD tcma instructors. IMO, if you have been training in a style for six months and still can't reasonably defend yourself in a street fight, either your style sucks FOR FIGHTING, your instructor is watering lessons down and holding back important information to drain more out of your wallet, or your instructor sucks.

Styles that can be classified as bad for fighting can be boiled down to one or more of the following problems:

1. They are over technical in their approach to fighting.
2. Their movements were designed to be impressive rather than effective.
3. They do not take into account how our bodies are already programmed from the womb for self-preservation.

Face the facts:

Some instructors suck, because they have never been in a street fight. Sparring teaches good skills, but it isn't enough. Sparring on mats, on leitai, or in a cage is not the same as fighting for your life.

Some instructors suck, because they have no clue how to teach others what they know. They may be excellent at tournaments or on the street. But if they can't TEACH, you won't learn.

Some instructors suck, because they don't care. They are running a business. If they have to water the training down to keep a paying student base, they are willing to do it.

I can forgive the first two types of bad instructors, I have NO RESPECT for the third type. IF they claim that they will teach you to defend yourself.

[IronFist]

Originally Posted by SimonM

9: one of the less broken melee weapon traditions

Seriously, this matters. I could get by just fine on boxing and wrestling and still find at least 5 or 6 of your 8 reasons, but not with integrated weapon training.

Not sure I quite understood your post but sure, weapons training is cool. For a while back in the day I was obsessed with the three sectional staff. Not a very practical weapon but I thought it was cool.

Not really so much anymore, though. I just watched some YouTube vids to confirm this.

[SimonM]

Originally Posted by IronFist

Not sure I quite understood your post but sure, weapons training is cool. For a while back in the day I was obsessed with the three sectional staff. Not a very practical weapon but I thought it was cool.

Not really so much anymore, though. I just watched some YouTube vids to confirm this.

I'm a total sword nerd - happy to admit it.

Here's the thing about swords though: fencing (which I have done a bit) is very divorced from anything approaching real sword-work.

The fencing swords are far too light and the scoring system is equivalent to point sparring in bare-handed MA.

A lot of other European sword traditions were interrupted by the advent of firearms. They went from widely-used sidearms among the wealthier segments of society to cavalry only weapons to ceremonial weapons over the course of the last 500 years.

What we know of practical arming sword, two-handed weapons and even early dueling swords (like rapiers) is mostly guess-work and interpretations of poorly drawn manuals.

JMA and CMA maintained a much more unbroken tradition of sword work than the Europeans. I happen to prefer Chinese sword designs over Japanese and also I'm more invested in Chinese culture than Japanese (Mandarin is my 2nd language and my wife is Chinese) so I lean toward CMA.

I've been working on developing some arming sword systems drawing out of what I know of jian. My main problem currently is lack of any way to really properly test what I've learned as I can't really afford the insurance rates that some of the euro-reconstructionist groups require, won't lower myself to boffer larping and have run out of friends nuts enough to actually practice with me using wasters.