Practical application of a suplex!!!!!

[IronFist]

http://www.dynamicfightingarts.com/grappling_001.jpg

http://www.dynamicfightingarts.com/grappling_002.jpg

http://www.dynamicfightingarts.com/grappling_004.jpg

http://www.dynamicfightingarts.com/grappling_005.jpg

Here (http://www.dynamicfightingarts.com/grappling.htm)

Ok, I don't know anything about grappling. Someone comfirm my thinking that this is not at all realistic, please.

Iron

"Now why the **** would you censor "d.ork?"

Ironman PostLog: 1100 - 11/20/01

[Ryu]

Actually the suplex is quite realistic, and I've pulled it off before just like this.
The only thing unrealistic here, is that this is a "mat wrestling" suplex, and the guy's head is in terrible danger of being cut open by the cement.
What should be done is suplex but turn to the side just a bit so as to fall to the angle of one shoulder.
You can however shield your head by having the opponent's body cushion your own impact.
I've practiced these on cement with grappling dummies.

Gotta know how to do it right.

Ryu

http://home.vobis.net/user/roy/anime/images/streetfighter15.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Ryu]

Rest of the pics on that site though don't really look that good.


Ryu

http://home.vobis.net/user/roy/anime/images/streetfighter15.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Wongsifu]

holu cow that dude has some phat sideburns and that hair , phew , fail to believe that i sreal the guy is at least 90 pounds hevier than the lil dude. and landing on concrete like that would phuck you like a rhino on a hot sunny day.

This is because THC is not an alkaloid. It does not contain a nitrogen atom, therefore it is a terpenophenolic compound

[Merryprankster]

Ryu's pretty much got it.

The set up is crap though. You don't arm drag somebody into a direct spin around. Just doesn't happen. They forgot the 60 seconds worth of clinching and fighting to get from the guy's side to his back.

Although there is nothing that says you can't suplesse the guy from the side.

Suplesse is a great move, and pulling one off makes you a stud! Plus, the impact on the other guy is bone crunching and intimidating, at the very least.

Note: If you are very skilled, you CAN go straight back on the suplesse because the backarch ensures that the opponent hits the ground first. You then LEG UNDER to go belly down before your head ever touches the ground.

[Satanachia]

Well we train a "similar" move (we call it "wrestling the tiger" or something.)
Its done from basically a "bearhug" type position, whether it be front or back.

Either way, the idea is to add a bit of a twist to the side. You don't want to go over backwards, basically the idea is more of a pick them up, twist(so you don't go over backwards like in those pics while keeping momentum going as well), and slam or through them into the ground.(if that makes any sense).

As Ryu said, you generally fall on one shoulder, but basically you can also use the other persons body to cushion yourself. Although the way we do it, you don't really have to go down to the ground if you don't want to, and last time i did it in grappling i ended up just standing after doing it from the back, and it sure hurt the other guy enough.

Although its generally regarded as a bigger persons move, it can be used great as long as you've got the muscles neccesary to get your opponent off the ground.

[neptunesfall]

in a fight situation....after the suplex set up[the 3rd pic], i'd much rather drop him on his head then follow him down to the ground and have even the slight the possibility of smashing my own head.
also....i've picked up guys that outweigh me by 80 or so pounds with an embracing throw, so it's not all the unrealistic. i think it's the sideburns that help.

[Satanachia]

And as MerryPrankster said, the entrance looks rediculous.

And he's also right about the impact being bone crunching and intimidating. When someone pulls one of properly in sparing we know about it, cause the entire floor of the dojo where we train shakes.

And god do you feel big when you pull that kind of move off.

[Merryprankster]

Satanachia,

I have a suggestion that may or may not improve the throw you are talking about.

From what you say, the back-arch in the throw you are talking about is minimal. It's a lift and twist to drop your opponent.

If it is in fact, a lift and twist, try this the next time you do this:

1. Lift your opponent.

2. On the side you will twist to, lift your knee and "prop" their legs with your knee, almost as if you were executing a light knee strike to their knee area.

3. NOW twist and throw. You usually get a little more success since there is less chance the guy will spin out of it.

If in fact, it is a heavily back arched throw, please ignore my ramblings :)

[Satanachia]

Thanks for the suggestion. The only times i've used it are generally on people who can let me get into the position in the first place, which generally means other relative "begginers".

Straight after i did it to one guy who started about the same time i did, he stopped wrestling cause i think it winded him quite a bit, but then one of the more advanced students came up and asked if i'd like to have a grapple with him. Sure enough, i thought i had a enterance to do the exact same move on him too but from the front. I don't know if i can describe it accurately, but as i tried to get in close and get my arms around him, one arm of his slipped around my neck, next thing i know, he just drops over backwards, takes me with his body weight and momentum, and i land on my back, with him behind me, with a strong chokehold around my neck. I am now MUCH more weary of over trying similar things from the front unless i know i can get away with them.

Come to think of it, when we practiced it in training with partners(which can be hard to do realistically without putting quite a bit of force into it)we are supposed to have the option of pushing the knee out with one leg(especially if they're much bigger than you).

Well that's my long rambling done.

[Xebsball]

In the second picture where grabs the guys arm he could have been smart and add some extra pain that could possibly distract the other dude by pressing 2 pressure points. One on the wrist other under the elbow.

----------------------------
When you are surrounded by kids, enlighten them with Bruce Lee quotes.
They will love you and honor you for that.

[neptunesfall]

i think it would be better to drag down from the outside gate, rather than the inside gate.
pulling him from the outside gate will expose his back to you more, where as pulling him from the inside will pull his chest to your shoulder, which can be useful, but not for this technique.

just to clarify, i am think in terms of taichi drag down [double pull], so this may not be relevant of western wrestlers do it differently.

the 'wrestling the tiger' throw you described is the 'embracing' throw i hold so dearly, Satanachia.

there is also the option on sweeping his legs sideways from underneath him as you do this and dump him in the appropriate direction.

[qeySuS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> holu cow that dude has some phat sideburns and that hair , [/quote]

Maybe it's Ken Shamrock :D

Free thinkers are dangerous!

[Sam Wiley]

That's not my favorite suplex, but I guess it could work, at least if you found a better way of getting the hold on than what's pictured. That wouldn't be the method I recommend. Anyway, if you did that on asphalt, then it'd pretty much be a fight ender.

*********

[Merryprankster]

Neptune,

Exactly right. I didn't even notice that. The arm should be dragged across the front of the body rather than how it is done in the picture. What crap!!!

[IronFist]

Did anybody notice that he seems to be wearing a "beret" type hat in ONLY the second picture?

Guile threw bad ass suplexes in Street Fighter.

Iron

"Now why the **** would you censor "d.ork?"

Ironman PostLog: 1100 - 11/20/01

[Water Dragon]

Actually, it's an excellant lead in. I do something like that all the time. It's probably the biggest thing I picked in Taiji. About 75 % of my "stuff" uses that or a very similar lead in.

Both arms act as a shield so that you can get a hold of whatever's coming. Or you walk into it. If you ever caught one of my posts talking about handles and ripping someone off their root, that's it. The thing is, that back hand doesn't spin the guy. You rip your hand straight back like you're trying to elbow some one behind you.

If that fails, you bump with the same elbow and "pass" with the hand on the forearm to get to the outside gate. It usually means you have to restart the interchange, but it gets you out of the way (unless he goes for a clinch right away, but for some reason most people don't)

My question is, the mechanics of the suplex look wrong to me. The guy doesn't look like he's under the big dudes center. Shouldn't he be gripping lower and using more leg in the beginning?

[Martial Joe]

IronFist...
Yeah...I would always ruin people using his suplex...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[Merryprankster]

Water Dragon,

It's not the arm drag or anything that's "crap" about the entry, it's where he's arm dragging to.

If you arm drag the way he did, the front and side body locks are open, but not the back, because he can still corral you with the arm when you transition to the lock. This makes it harder to get to their back.

If he had armdragged the opponent with the back of the opponent's arm across the FRONT of his own body, then the side and rear bodylocks are more readily available, because he has already beaten the arm.

There's nothing wrong with that particular arm drag, it's just that there is something wrong with that arm drag if you are going for a suplesse.

The positioning is wrong, as you surmised. Not the lock, but the legs need to be more underneath the throwee :)

Make sense?

[Water Dragon]

If he had armdragged the opponent with the back of the opponent's arm across the FRONT of his own body, then the side and rear bodylocks are more readily available, because he has already beaten the arm

That's what I thought he was doing, that's what I was trying to describe any way.

I thought that suplex looked bad. Not that it wouldn't work, but it looks like it requires too much raw strength for my taste.

[Merryprankster]

Sorry H2O Dragon... I didn't understand the inside vice outside gate thing :)

If you look at the picture though, the back of the opponents arm is not dragged across the front of the body. He drags the arm to the outside instead.

I agree. Unless he gets his lower body more firmly under the body of the other guy, it'll be hard to throw him.

[truewrestler]

i wish i had a video capture card. In the last olympics there was an amazing suplex by an american. Merryprankster...do you know the match I'm talking about? I think it was overtime. The american (maybe Brandon Slay) shoots a highdive/greco double(this is a greco-roman match, can't grab the legs). The american circles to the guys back as the Russian is trying to ****zer. Well, the american gets past the ****zer, almost to the back and then launches the rushes for a full suplex and the Russian lands flat on his back and neck, he is dazed...the match is over and the american goes on to win the next/broze medal match.

[truewrestler]

merryprankster, I think they just fugged up on the pic of the armdrag, unless he is passing the hand in front of his chest between frames or something.

[Merryprankster]

Maybe tw. I don't know. I can only go by the pics and they have the arm passed to the outside vice inside, which makes for lousy suplex position. I'm afraid I didn't see the match you were talking about. Bummer.

[truewrestler]

yeah, maybe their technique is just wrong...period

[neptunesfall]

good point, true.

[JWTAYLOR]

The suplex is devistating. I fear the front suplex more than the rear suplex.
JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV