View Full Version : Good Knuckle Conditioning?
09-02-2000, 07:25 PM
Does anyone know any sites or books I can buy on bone conditioning? Right now in my school we do barely any conditioning besides punching backs etc.
09-02-2000, 08:35 PM
Please, please, please, please... dont try and learn Iron shirt or palm from books or video. I have seen to many instances of "Self taught" people injuring themselves.
09-02-2000, 09:57 PM
I agree. Without a knowledgeable and competent teacher you could damage your hands for the rest of your life. I would look for a teacher instead of books or video. Even if you can only spend a few days a year with him it is still better.
09-04-2000, 11:54 AM
Reminds me of a story my mother told me. Her father was scared of water so he never taught them how to swim.
They all almost died jumping off a bridge into a river. It wasnt the jump it was the inability to keep afloat.
So he would have basiclly had 6 dead daughters (well, maybe less, they all hadnt been born yet) because of his fear.
Look around you. We need a substitute for natural selection. Even a freak like L. Ron Hubbard recognised that "when someone is lying to you. They are trying to control you"
I have minor joint problems because of iron overload. I know what some types of arthritis feel like. I used to move like a 80 year old man. Before that, I didnt.
Its good to know what being trully messed up is GOING to feel like 50 years down the road.
However I also recognise some minor deceptions and contradictions that always seem to come up with conditioning questions and answers.
I'll contiune this later
09-04-2000, 11:57 AM
what the heck were they doing jumping off bridges in the first place?!?!?!
09-04-2000, 12:23 PM
That's a good question Paul.
09-04-2000, 05:32 PM
Very simple, start doing what I am about to do. This does not require anything other than about 15$!
By some sand, place it in a canvas sac, hang it from your ceiling and presto....start hitting the base (as where sand packs) lightly. Over time your strikes will increase in speed and your knuckles will get conditioned. The good thing here is that training this way will leave no real marks on your knuckles and you don't need ointment afterwards, just give your knuckles a rest. Forget Iron training for now...who really has the time. This will do wonders for your knuckles, elbows and palms if you wanna smack the sac too. Plus, if you are hitting wrong with the back of your hand, you'll feel it when you hit the sac...
That's it, enjoy.
What I do, push up on your knuckles, they become harder. Then you can start punching harer objects. But start slowly, and always advice your Sifu
09-04-2000, 09:06 PM
Get a good solid peice of 2x6 about a foot long and take it with you every where you go.Just smack the knuckles on it all the time.As it swells with water,just rub it out and keep going.Combine that with knuckle pushups.Always working the hands to maintain mobility.You will endup with penball hammers for knuckles and have no lack of dexterity.
09-04-2000, 11:23 PM
i have read that doing knuckle push-ups can lead to enlarged knuckles. Arthritis may also set in after this.
09-05-2000, 02:17 AM
I would not advise board training as yes it devellops powerful knuckles...but those same knuckles are visible to all who see you. With sand training, scars or raised calous to teh point of two knuckles looking like one will not occur...plus like i said, there is no water treatment needed afterwards. Go with the sand, it is a wise tool. Hit packed sand for a while and boards will seem like nothing(within reason of course)
09-05-2000, 07:26 AM
By the same logic.Use boards and bones will seem like paper.Who cares if people see you have rough hands?It's a very good deterent.Everyone thinks they would like to train with Master Pan.Yet you can't do what he does without having ugly hands.Kung fu is a striking art.I feel some on this board are mistaking it for Aikido.The really good kung fu guys I have seen from China had conditioned their entire bodies.They looked pretty in their silk suits,but were hard core and downright strong tough guys.Kung fu in America is for women and children.No one here puts themselves through what is expected by a true kung fu master.Americans wont do it.They want to look and act like they know kung fu,but wont train even a 1/4 of what they should.A farmer can take one look at your hands and tell if you are a farmer.The same with a serious martial artist.The human hand is not made for striking.If you have pretty hands,that just means you can't hit hard enough to even hurt yourself.You have never trained at real striking.How are you going to hit hard enough to knock someone down or out with one hit?Kung fu is for multiple opponants is'nt it?You cant do it with a hurt hand after your first strike.
In part, I disagree.
If kung fu were purely an "external" art then hardened knuckles might not be as much of an option. But it also has a strong emphasis on internal training. If you've ever seen Qigong masters demonstrating they don't usually have that hard exterior.
I think its more of a personal preference and depends on your school and style.
Look at how hard a taichi stylist can hit and any of that hard external training would have a negative effect on them. I know kung fu and taichi are different but because it has that internal aspect, not going through that hard external training doesn't mean you're putting any less into your kung fu. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
09-05-2000, 12:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paul Skrypichayko:
what the heck were they doing jumping off bridges in the first place?!?!?![/quote]
That's just what lemmings do...they follow each other over the edge. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
"There is only ONE martial art"
09-05-2000, 12:56 PM
One thing that we do 2-knuckle push ups on a wooden floor. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
"There is only ONE martial art"
09-05-2000, 10:05 PM
I think there are a fiar number of reasons against conditioning your knuckles. First of all, you could wind up in legal trouble as this would automatically make your punches more deadly. Second, although having enlarged knuckles can enable you to hit harder, it could hurt your grabbling ability, which can make you a worse fighter. In some situations, grappling is the only viable option available to you. Also, many internal styles usually favor the palm over the fist. You can cause more damage with a palm than a fist, and you can control the amount of force that you generate in a palm. Please keep in mind that when knuckle conditioning started to become popular, people had to worry about being attacked by people wearing armour, so they conditioned their knuckles in order to break through the armour. Today, what are your chances of being attacked by someone wearing armour? Think about it.
09-06-2000, 06:08 AM
I just finished reading about the 500 and 100 man kumite that Mas Oyama used to require from his students to acuire 5th dan.500 fights without stopping in between and all fights are 2 mins long.You had to defeat over 50%.I can just imagine how ones hands would feel after just 10 fights with what I consider soft hands.I know I am not going to change many peoples minds,but it gives you something to think about.
Buk Sing CLF
09-06-2000, 11:51 AM
For serious, long term hardening of the hands, fore arms or other body parts I strongly recommend using 'dit da jow'.
Applied before and, more importantly, after conditioning helps prevent any potential injuries that might occur later in life.
I'm not fully up on how it actually works but in an 'Iron Palm' regime it is essential.
In BSCLF we practise 'Iron Palm' training as Kue Ye Chern was a major influence on Tarm Sarm, the founder of the art.
Punching a sand bag is commonly used to get your hands ready for real 'Iron Palm' training, same for push-ups.
We use a hard, flat leather bag full of blue metal lying on a bar-stool type of stand. From a horse stance we smash our hands into it in a sequence that covers all sides of the hand. This done every day for just 5 minutes per hand makes them like rock. After years, they are like steel and are extremely dangerous. I have seen many people do this and when using dit da jow they have only minor markings on their hands.
But, like I said, your hands become lethal weapons. Before anyone practices 'Iron Palm' they must ask themselves - "Why do I want to do this?" What is your real reason? Would it be easier to buy a gun or knife?
Food for thought!
Buk Sing CLF
09-06-2000, 11:54 AM
Also, as mentioned earlier in this thread, it is extremely preferable to be shown by a sifu or some one who has done it before rather than learn from a book or video.
[This message has been edited by Buk Sing CLF (edited 09-07-2000).]
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