Choy Lay Fut Sap Ji Kau Da Kuen

[Shaolindynasty]

I posted this in response to a question on another thread but I thought this set might be worthy of it's own topic since it is a major set in the Choy Lay Fut system.

This is the Sap ji kau da from my lineage, we actually call it Dai kau Da kuen as we have a "small" and "large" version. I've seen alot of versions of this form and they all seem to be very similar. feel free to compare the similarities and differences of this version to your own


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oblXqB_2NF4&feature=channel_video_title

[Shaolindynasty]

Shaolin D, can you remind me where the Hung Gar hands come from in this set? Fut San Hung Sing doesn't use those hands at all. jusy curious did fong yu shu have anything to do with that form?



I am sure there were some alterations made to it over the course of the past 5 generations. I do not know who specifically added the kiu sau portion in the begining. I did know that that portion was going to raise some questions because i have not personally seen anyone else do it like that. It seems usually it's a tiger claw

I believe Fong Yuk Shu has made changes to other forms. Our siu moi fah for instance appears to be unique to his lineage.

Interesting to note how open minded he seemed to be about training and adopting other methods that addressed issues that he felt needed to be addressed. The evdience suggests that he was mostly concerned with improving his own fighting skills not with maintaining any kind of purity in the system.

[Mano Mano]

That was totally different from the kau da form that I learned & my CLF lineage is also from Fong Yuk Shu as well.

[Shaolindynasty]

interesting, I have also noticed that some of Chan kin man's forms are different as well.

mano mano, do you have siu kau da and dai kau da?

This is fairly similar to mine up to a certain point
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1qeF11gdfU&feature=channel_video_title

The Lee Koon hung version has several sequences that are found in ours

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pHrSudtUis

[Drake]

Thanks for continuing to post stuff that benefits CLF while the rest of us act like little *****es. :D

[CLFNole]

Did you just shorten it to Siu Kau Dah and Dai Kau Dah or is that how it is always referred to in your lineage?

Just curious as buk sing was the only one I have heard use Kau Dah as a set name. They have Sup Gee Kuen and Kau Dah Kuen.

For others you generally hear Sup Gee Kow Da Kuen sometimes Dai Sup Gee Kow Dah and Siu Sup Gee Kuen for a short version.

Your set is similar to ours but ours may be a little longer unless you cut yours a bit for the clip.

[Shaolindynasty]

My sifu once told me the full name of this one is dai sup ji kau da kuen. Since it's a pain in the ass to say, we just say Dai Kau Da kuen.

I notcied that some of the sequences in the Lee koon hung version that aren't in our dai kau da are in our siu kau da.

The one in this clip is the full version

[Shaolindynasty]

Thanks for continuing to post stuff that benefits CLF while the rest of us act like little *****es

LOL! Feel free to add some input. Let's class this joint up!:cool:

[Mano Mano]

interesting, I have also noticed that some of Chan kin man's forms are different as well.

mano mano, do you have siu kau da and dai kau da?

This is fairly similar to mine up to a certain point
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1qeF11gdfU&feature=channel_video_title

The Lee Koon hung version has several sequences that are found in ours

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pHrSudtUis

we just have 1 form sup ji kau da.

[hskwarrior]

originally posted by: clfnole
just curious as buk sing was the only one I have heard use Kau Dah as a set name. They have Sup Gee Kuen and Kau Dah Kuen.

The three of the 5 mainstream forms of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon are Sup Gee, Kau Da, and Ping Kuen. Buk sing's Kau Da and Ping kuen and Sup Ji came from Hung Sing.

[CLFNole]

So fut san hung sing doesn't have sup gee kow dah? I remember a long long time ago you mentioned something with Jeurng Yim doing sup gee kow dah.

[hskwarrior]

Since we have our own Sup Ji kau Da kuen i haven't paid attention if Fut San does have one. I do know they have Sup Ji, Kau Da and Ping Kuen. Cheung Kuen is the other one. And the drunken form may be the fifth of the five general forms. I do think Sup Ji Kau Da came a little later.

i know ours came a little later as Lau Bun didn't see the sense in having three different forms containing the same exact techniques in them.

Abou Jeung Yim doing sup ji kau da, if i actually said something it must have been from Alex..i forget his last name.....but his website mentioned Jeung Yim looking like a tornado when doing that form or something to that effect. the only forms i mentioned from jeung yim would have been the In and out bagua form from Ching Cho and the Drunken form Jeung Yim used often.

[Mano Mano]

The information about Jeung Yim doing sup ji kau da came from an old Chinese language martial arts magazine.

[hskwarrior]

The information about Jeung Yim doing sup ji kau da came from an old Chinese language martial arts magazine.

According to the information from fut san, Sup Ji, Kau da, and Ping Kuen were created by Chan Ngau Sing. He is said to have broken up the In and Out Bagua Kuen from Ching Cho which was said to contain 1080 moves in it. Chan Sing felt he needed to break it up for the newer generations who were more impatient than the previous ones.

[jdhowland]

[QUOTE=CLFNole;1083342]Just curious as buk sing was the only one I have heard use Kau Dah as a set name. They have Sup Gee Kuen and Kau Dah Kuen.QUOTE]

The Tibetan White Crane I learned also has a Kau Da Kyuhn--totally unlike BSCLF's version. I wonder how many other systems used the name?

[CLFNole]

JD:

The name could be used in other styles like you pointed out, I was just referring to CLF in particular as I have only heard buk sing use kau dah kuen & sup gee kuen as form names but Frank pointed out Fut San Hung Sing also has kau dah kuen and sup gee kuen, which is not all that suprising as Tam Sam was a student of Lui Chan.

Peace.

[Violent Designs]

The Futsan Hung Sing Sup Jee and Kau Da are almost identical to the Buk Sing iterations? I am going out on a limb here. Need to watch more footage of all these forms.

[hskwarrior]

The Futsan Hung Sing Sup Jee and Kau Da are almost identical to the Buk Sing iterations? I am going out on a limb here. Need to watch more footage of all these forms.

The key to this whole situation is TAM SAM WAS HUNG SING. period. the only choy lee fut forms he knew were from his Hung Sing sifu and a friend. Now, you have to know that there is a Tiger Crane theme of our (hung and buk sing) hoi jong's. Somewhere down the line, in the opening section they removed the crane essence and turned it ALL tiger. Where Fut San would use palms, Buk Sing changed it to Tiger Claws.

Still, the Sup Ji, Ping and Kau Da Kuen of Buk Sing came from Hung Sing first.

[Violent Designs]

The key to this whole situation is TAM SAM WAS HUNG SING. period. the only choy lee fut forms he knew were from his Hung Sing sifu and a friend. Now, you have to know that there is a Tiger Crane theme of our (hung and buk sing) hoi jong's. Somewhere down the line, in the opening section they removed the crane essence and turned it ALL tiger. Where Fut San would use palms, Buk Sing changed it to Tiger Claws.

Still, the Sup Ji, Ping and Kau Da Kuen of Buk Sing came from Hung Sing first.

I know this man, but I was more or less referring to the current way people played sets (thinks change over time).

[hskwarrior]

yeah i agree. but if you compare the two sets and know where things were changed you'd see that they are the same. And sorry brah, i was just generally speaking

[Violent Designs]

yeah i agree. but if you compare the two sets and know where things were changed you'd see that they are the same. And sorry brah, i was just generally speaking

Haha, no need for apologies. You should know me too well by now. :D

[Jimbo]

Shaolindynasty,

Thanks for sharing! Your version is very different from the Sup Ji Kau Da that I learned, but I enjoy seeing different versions of things within CLF. It's interesting how forms that share the same name within the same system (though different in lineage) will vary, sometimes dramatically due to the preferences/experiences of different masters over time.

Excellent performance, by the way. Keep up the good work.

[nospam]

We still have both crane & tiger in our hoi jung.

nospam
:cool:

[hskwarrior]

We still have both crane & tiger in our hoi jung.

nospam

Yeah I've seen you guys do it. but other buk sing schools have taken the crane out completely.

[Violent Designs]

Yeah I've seen you guys do it. but other buk sing schools have taken the crane out completely.

Can you link a video showing the Hoi Jong with Crane element replaced by Tiger?

[hskwarrior]

give me time i have to look

[hskwarrior]

Here is one video that shows the Tiger Claw where palms should be:

look at the first 5 movements

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7XUCgxrVXc&playnext=1&list=PL46A62F76A589625D

Here you can see how we use all palms:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuFwlduAQnI

[CLFNole]

There looks to be a bit of crane in the buk sing opening.

[hskwarrior]

there are too many buk sing vids for me to go through right now. but i did say that in the first few moves you will see the tiger claw. he actually does three tiger claws in the first three moves.. Fut San including lau bun's lineage doesn't we use palms. so somewhere down the line buk sing changed it to include the tiger claws.

[CLFNole]

That might be true but they didn't remove the crane. It is there in the hoi jong.

[hskwarrior]

Well, they did take away the essence of the crane in one sense. The Tiger and the Crane is not just in the hand shapes as well. But our Hoi Jong FLOWS with the tiger/crane essence as well.

but yeah i know they still have some crane....maybe it was the lacey lineage i was thinking of but i remember asking my friends what happened to the Crane essence along time ago.