View Full Version : RealPlayer Vid Clip - Sil Lum Jow Gar Form!
01-23-2000, 11:26 PM
Flying Mantis (http://www.kvi.net/~redgate/martialartsgates.html)
Vist the above site for:
Flying Mantis, a Shaolin Jow Gar Kung Fu form. ( 545kb / 21 seconds ) Need Real Player.
Comments from you Mantis folk?
01-24-2000, 03:41 AM
While I am fairly new to the CMA, and have NO experience in Northern Mantis, I just have to say that that set/form was truly amazing, the footwork, technique and speed were simply great...Others may disagree, but it was worthwhile downloading it!
The Silver Fox
01-26-2000, 12:51 AM
Hey, the kid is good.
I'm sure he will develop into a very good martial artist.
I looked through his site and thought that this kid is mature beyond his years.
He definitely has a good attitude and his content shows his respect for his art and teachers.
As for the form,I am guessing that this is a beginners form or an intermediate form from the system.
I'm pretty darn impressed with the kid, too.
As for the form. I don't know it myself, but it's not an advanced form--I'd say more of a beginner/nearing intermediate form. Nice foot work, but I'd like to see him slow down a little, work on some of those stances (his knee was out of alignment on some), make those kicks count, and really show the form rather than the speed--but, man, he is fast! Our fourteen year old does that, too--sacrifices some in form for speed, maybe it's the age.
Although, I'm guilty of that myself sometimes, actually. I guess I'm fourteen at heart.
01-26-2000, 09:19 PM
Great comments on the speed issue. That's what I thought while watching him. But as commented, it is not unique to this dude.
So many practitioners of all levels feel the need for speed. I did. I thought it was the 'advanced' moves of kung fu and seeing that I'm naturally a quick fella..I was the Man! Wrong. Speed does kill! hahaha See? kung fu is a cross-platform groove to get into.
Anyway, my comment I want to make is that speed is a reward for hard and smart and diligent work at slow to medium speed. We say in my style, you've got to do 100 slow to get 10 properly done fast. Its funny how we can get caught up in the learning curve. We want more..more..more! That's good, but moderated. Some of us become too good for basics, meanwhile...basics are the founding Heart of any system, and the Body needs a strong Heart.
My moto...it takes 1000 slow and strong movements to get 10 fast, effective ones.
01-26-2000, 09:52 PM
Say No Spam, your not connected to Hal and Joanne of the Body Break commercials are you?
That's some sound advice.
01-27-2000, 02:06 AM
The gigs up.
02-08-2000, 03:23 AM
Very rare to see the Resturant form demonstrated by someone so young.
02-11-2000, 02:09 AM
I think there would be food and drinks all over the place!
High All... the form you did kid was pretty good but like the others say.. You are using to much speed and working the form to full potential.. Even as I know I have never seen the form before and I have been in mantis for sometime now.... It looks like a novice level wushu form... IT pretty good though you bring honor to the tong long ffist form,
just work on your stance training your ma bu is a lil shallow. I used to and still move at that speed but I learned not to substitue speed for substance... Practice your form with proper speed,technique and stances and your form will gain more speed, strength and dynamics....
05-04-2000, 09:24 AM
I was being snotty. Jow ga means resturant in cantonese. Two high tones I believe.
Liked what I saw, but I would have to agree with others comments on the stance work and foot work. His leg trapping looks undefined in the foot work.
Check out this form and let me know what ya think...
[This message has been edited by Manuel (edited 05-05-2000).]
05-04-2000, 09:22 PM
Pretty cool, Manuel,
But, it seemed like he was just showcasing a form rather than fake-fighting (which is what I consider forms to be). A trained tournament competitor, perhaps?
05-05-2000, 12:01 AM
Dang I wish I could see those forms.
Sometimes using Unix and surfing at work is definitely not worth it...
What about the video makes you think its not fake fighting (as you put it) but pure form demo?
From the kicks and mantis hooks and punches, etc. Looks pretty real to me? But, I'm far from being any kind of expert.
Oh, I wanted to ask if anyone knew what the deal with the naming is, "Shaolin Jow Gar Kung Fu form". Isn't Jow Gar a southern style or something?
[This message has been edited by Manuel (edited 05-05-2000).]
05-05-2000, 01:56 AM
The reason it looks like pure demo is that I can't see his head turn to look before his body turns. Maybe it's just the quality of the video. It's the focus that can make or break a form. It's also done at pretty much the same speed throughout, rather than differing the rhythm with some moves.
I don't know the form he's doing, so maybe that's the proper way to do it--very quickly and at the same speed. Even his pauses seemed like he didn't stop but was still going. Maybe that's how the form is supposed to be done. Dunno. But, the man obviously knows his stuff, and has known it for a very long time, no doubt about that.
The kid is ok but the form really does not have any kind of flavor. It's just rushed all the way through. There should be stops at various parts of the form to accentuate certain techniques. Also, he should play with the tempo. Some moves can be done really fast to show the speed but others should be done a little slower and with more intent at the end of the technique to show power.
By the way, not for nothing but I doubt that it is a traditional mantis form. "Shaolin Jow Gar" should be the tipoff. Like Manuel said, Jow Gar is a traditional southern style although it does have some northern style moves. It's more like the Hung Gar style and none of their forms look like the form that is played here. I could be wrong though. Maybe it's a different Jow Gar I never heard of. If that is the case then please accept my apologies for the "not traditional" statement.
Anybody seen the Shorin Ryu form/kata that the kid does also? Although it is done at a slower pace than the flying mantis form it is still way too fast for a karate form. There is absolutely no power/intent/focus.
The stances are way too high and do not seem to be rooted. From my past experience with karate styles and from observing other karatekas I know that the katas are to be done with power and the stances should be strong. I hate to sound so critical but he is young and if all he hears is how good he looks doing forms then he will just keep doing them that way. He needs to capture the essence of the forms he is playing, otherwise he is just dancing. One more thing(sorry), I believe that if you are going to do a karate form you should wear a gi, not a kung fu uniform( in private I guess you could wear whatever you want but to perform in public is a different story)This also is a factor in how you play forms. You feel a certain way when you wear a gi, another way when you wear a chinese uniform or whatever. If you have ever done this you know what I mean. It is an aid in helping you feel the essence or spirit of the form you are playing. Anyway, time to stop rambling.
05-05-2000, 10:11 AM
That was a hell of a point you made there if I do say so myself Loki......
05-07-2000, 06:58 PM
Gi with kung fu forms, Yifu with japanese forms, belts with yifu's, sashes with gi's...kills me; Glad you mentioned the naming practice as well. 'tis not a traditional form that I have ever heard of..
(but then I heard there are over 120 of them in some lineages, so what do I know).
The practitioner is fun to watch though & that is enough to win in far to many tournaments.
The kid has good potential. However, he goes to fast and when you force the speed, you are not smooth. Also you don't know what you're aiming at. Some of the movements are nto aligned properly and the hand positions are a little off. That means you don't know the applications. Find another sifu.
05-31-2000, 10:06 PM
AWW come on guys give the kid a break!!!
you all are like a bunch of musicians sitting around telling each you couldve done that song better.. the kid is only 14 and i have to say that he probably looks alot better than any of you did at that age,still
pickin your nose and not peeing straight. i doubt it if any of the others trashing the kid arent out of thier teens yet
anyway. HEY NOSPAM,,,,Nice form, you are exactly where you need to be at this stage in your developement. keep it up! your form reminds me of the first mantis form i learned
years ago"fist of the crushing step" or bung-bo. here is some advice from a teacher in his late 20's. POWER POWER POWER train. start now while your muscles are still developing. it will make the forms you do all that much better and will help you to utilize them in a confrontation,,,,,,AND gain favor with the judges at the tournaments. i am impressed, Jason
drunkenostrich, you addressed nospam as if he is the one who is doing the form. I don't think so since he says in one of his posts "that's what I thought while watching him" referring to the person doing the form.
I can't speak for anyone else here but I do not feel that anyone has said anything too negative. It can all be taken as constructive criticism. He is young and can develop into an exceptional martial artist. The only thing that I really questioned was the authenticity of the form itself. Like I said before, as far as I know there is no form in the Jow Gar system called 'flying mantis'. This form has a northern look to it whereas Jow Gar is a southern style. Also, I am a 7* mantis practitioner and I cannot agree with you when you say that this form resembles Bung Bo in any way. I have observed different versions of Bung Bo from other branches of mantis and this form does not look like any of them. Would you like to share how this form reminds you of Bung Bo. If not, that is ok.
06-02-2000, 08:42 AM
I did not say that it resembled the bung-bo form i learned, i just said that watching the kid reminded me of when i first learned bung-bo,,,,i was remeniscing loki. the form does look northern. maybe the translation of the form is off,,never heard Of "flying mantis" myself. and oh i just read the post that confirms that nospam is not the kid doing the form,,,,,,my mistake....oops. well if the kid gets on the forum and reads this then there it is.
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