Ancient Egyptian Martial Arts

[Syre]

Someone was asking about the origin of martial arts, and we have a topic "Indian Martial Arts" which has links to some videos of what looks like a proto-martial art from India (and as we know, the Indian martial arts were possibly brought to the Shaolin Temple by Bodhidarma).

So here are some links for Egyptian martial arts:

Some articles:

http://www.hiddendragon.com/articles/Egyptian.html
http://www.hiddendragon.com/articles/Egypt2.html

A tomb painting of 'boxing':

http://www.sis.gov.eg/egyptinf/history/html/sports07.htm

More info on sports in ancient Egypt, including locations of paintings, etc.

http://www.ioa.leeds.ac.uk/1980s/84085.htm

[Sharky]

that's cool

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[JerryLove]

Thanks for the links, let me take the opportunity to state categorically that MARTIAL ARTS DO NOT HAVE A SINGLE ORIGIN except the tendancy of ****nids to fight.

http://www.clearsilat.com

[bustr]

Thanks for the links Syre!

[Xiao3 Meng4]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/Beni_Hassan_tomb_15_wrestling_detail.jpg

Beni Hassan Tomb, Egypt, 2000 BC

[David Jamieson]

yeah it's cool. Like a wrestling manual.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Yeah I don't see any striking either.

[Lucas]

ya thats cool. starts with clinching up, you see some ground and pounding, taking the back, leg sweeps, hip tosses....etc.

[Lucas]

Egyptian Weapons (http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/weapons/index.html)

makes you wonder...the egyptians definately had an asortment of weapons.

"The infantry of the New Kingdom carried spears, battle axes, sickleswords and daggers. The sicklesword (MdC transliteration: xpS - khepesh or khopesh) came to Egypt from Syria, where Thutmose III used it first. There are many depictions of the gods handing the pharaoh this weapon of victory [2]. It quickly became part of the infantryman's basic equipment."

so with your infantry trained and armed with a small assortment of arms, it would be pretty logical to include standard grappling into the training.

wouldnt have much need for striking.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

I'm of the opinion that what we're seeing here is a sport.

Didn't see the Ground'N'Pound. That was sweet. :cool:

[Lucas]

hmm, ya you are probably right....so far hasnt every culture had some form or another of grappling sport?

i cant think of one that has not...maybe eskimos? lol

[mickey]

Greetings,

What is so interesting about the wrestling mural is that it looks sequential, like a two man matching form, with techniques and counters.

mickey

[Andy Miles]

In the Egyptian countryside people burn pieces of metal and put them on acupuncture points which are identical to those in China both in location and function. Some of these people can't write their own name in Arabic. The systemic basis for their medicine is gone, but they retain some folk understanding of their ancient medicine. An egyptian kung fu students once told me that as a kid they were brought to the glyphs and were told that the warrior ideal of the egyptians was to move like a cat. No matter where pressure was applied the whole body would turn fluidly to attack.


www.kungfuchengdu.com

[diego]

do primates do chinna and head locks or do they just bite and rip out eyeballs and limbs when they are ****ed...any video of the king gorrilla arresting a lesser fellow?.

[David Jamieson]

do primates do chinna and head locks or do they just bite and rip out eyeballs and limbs when they are ****ed...any video of the king gorrilla arresting a lesser fellow?.

primates? what do apes have to do with egyptian martial arts?

[mickey]

Greetings,

Andy Miles:

A lot of the people in the Egyptian countryside are TRUE EGYPTIAN descendants. They have been displaced in their own homeland.

mickey

[David Jamieson]

Greetings,

Andy Miles:

A lot of the people in the Egyptian countryside are TRUE EGYPTIAN descendants. They have been displaced in their own homeland.

mickey

That whole region has been flipped more times than a short stack at denny's

It is very difficult to ascertain if the people that live there now are descendants of the people who lived there over the millenia. In some cases yes, in others, no way.

The pyramids were incredibly ancient when Ramses II was Pharaoh and in the time of Akhenaten they were also ancient. By the time of the last Pharaoh (Cleopatra who wasn't even an egyptian) the old dynasties were almost forgotten.

[mawali]

It is very difficult to ascertain if the people that live there now are descendants of the people who lived there over the millenia. In some cases yes, in others, no way.

The pyramids were incredibly ancient when Ramses II was Pharaoh and in the time of Akhenaten they were also ancient. By the time of the last Pharaoh (Cleopatra who wasn't even an egyptian) the old dynasties were almost forgotten.

Actually it is true. The people of the countryside are closer to the roots of pre-Islamic Egypt. The more urban the city location, the more one see the varied post Islamic phenotypes and sociocultural mores. The more recent groups are Albanian and Turkish (1750's-1900) in the Egyptian landscape. In Pharoanic times, Greeks and Romans were representative of the foreign influences of the specific era!

[Scott R. Brown]

Pharoanic times, Greeks and Romans were representative of the foreign influences of the specific era!

Pharaonic times?

They lasted a couple of thousand years!

Don't forget the Assyrians, Sumerians, Hittites, Hebrews, Phoneticians, Minoans, Space Aliens (such as the Nordics, Reptilians and Annunaki).....etc!

[bustr]

Bloodlines may disappear but the language and religion of AE live on in the Copts. Christianity in Egypt took hold because all that was required was changing the names of the gods and some slight modifications of the story. But even the arab muslims cling to some of the traditions. Here is some info on combat sports in Egypt. Looks like there was an extensive body of knowledge around wrestling. The stick-fighting art is still practiced today though it is disguised as a dance most of the time.

http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/JSH/JSH1988/JSH1502/jsh1502b.pdf

http://www.la84foundation.org/OlympicInformationCenter/OlympicReview/1938/ORUE1/ORUE1c.pdf



Kostas Dervenis (http://www.pammachon.gr/) does an analysis in his book, The Martial Arts of Ancient Greece.

http://store.innertraditions.com/Product.jmdx;jsessionid=7A307679D0587CE1CE5D79CCC1 9FBBF6?action=displayDetail&id=2255&searchString=978-1-59477-192-7&selectedTextTypeKeynames=23&displayZoom=1

[goju]

I dont see this as suprising

pretty much every ancient culture had a form of wrestling:D

[Hardwork108]

Yeah I don't see any striking either.

Could it be Egyptian salsa? :D

[Hardwork108]

On a serious note. There is no doubt that many ancient cultures had their martial arts, specially those which were empires with potent military forces.

However, one must be vary of Mcdojo experts who will suddenly start teaching, say, Egyptian martial arts just to differentiate their product and make a quick buck.

And while on this subject, does anyone know of any Indian martial arts that ressemble the Chinese Shaolin fighting arts, systems which they have supposed to have given birth to? Or is this yet another MA myth?

[RenDaHai]

@Hardwork

I actually went ot india to Kerala to train the Kalaripyattu. Unfortunately i couldn't find any really really good training. I tried both the north and southern styles. It is remarkebly similar to shaolin in terms of the basic skills and the stick combat. However i think this is a recent thing. There are records of indian monks doing exchanges in china so some of the technique could be exchanged either way. I certainly don't think Kalari has survived 1500 years unchanged and given birth to shaolin... no way.

The northern style is pretty good, lots of qinna like applications and grappling. THere were no forms, just two man drills. The southern style is very fancy, some very nice two man weapon sets.

We are all human, there is a lot of overlap in all styles. Has anyone checked out the medeival European wrestling manuals? they are really well drawn and depict all kinds of cool locks and throws, but done by guys in armour! How come we have lost our native styles in europe but in asia they managed to retain theirs? How many of our fencing skills retain the other weapons like a broadsword etc?

http://www.thearma.org/manuals.htm

Manuals of european martial arts (worth a look)

[Hardwork108]

@Hardwork

I actually went ot india to Kerala to train the Kalaripyattu. Unfortunately i couldn't find any really really good training. I tried both the north and southern styles. It is remarkebly similar to shaolin in terms of the basic skills and the stick combat. However i think this is a recent thing. There are records of indian monks doing exchanges in china so some of the technique could be exchanged either way. I certainly don't think Kalari has survived 1500 years unchanged and given birth to shaolin... no way.
To be honest there are some who doubt the supposed Indian origins of kung fu as sold to us by some people. According to some, traditional Chinese martial arts existed long before Bodhidarma's journey to Shaolin.

Either way, it is an interesting area for research. I personally believe that there are just too many TCMAs for them to have all originated from India and there does not seem to be any MA's in India that resemble Chinese kung fu and whose history predates that of the Traditional Chinese Boxing. Having said that, India is a big country and I am maintaining an open mind for possible future revelations.:)