OT: does obama bring change? [Archive] - Page 5

SimonM

03-09-2009, 09:29 AM

What I don't think people realize is that people like Rush Limbaugh supports Ward Churchill. Because if Ward is denied his right to freedom of speech then can Limpy's radio show be far behind?

Even if the motivation for pursuing him for his misdeeds was political, even if it was because of the incendiary things Churchill says specifically, trying to avoid dismissal for plagiarism on a freedom of speech basis is about as valid as applying for tenure while lying by claiming to be a member of a minority ethnicity.

3 charges of ghostwriting and attribution of authorship, under “standards” the
Committee never could identify. The author whose work was supposedly
plagiarized never accused Ward Churchill of doing so.

These standards are so standard that the entire academic community (apparently excluding Churchill) knows them in and out before the end of the first semester of their BA.

They are this:

NEVER CLAIM ANOTHER PERSON'S WORDS AS YOUR OWN. ALWAYS REFERENCE THE NAME OF THE SOURCE OF THE QUOTATION AND THE LOCATION THAT THE QUOTATION WAS DRAWN FROM.

You never answered my question: What business is this for yours? You're not a resident of Colorado (Thank God). You have no ties to the university.

You made it everybody's business by posting about the d@mn plagiarist on a public thread.

He also published articles under false names so that he could then cite them as independent sources for work he published under his own name.

That's a particularly noxious form of academic fraud.

uki

03-09-2009, 10:09 AM

err...that is the same with any media source. Books, Internet, Newspapers...all have a biased twist.

How do you gather your information Uki? Clearly it is not from first hand experience...so you too must gather it from a "news" source.

Not reading the news does not help you make up your own mind...but rather ignore what is going on around you.

I find it better to inform yourself with mutiple sources...better than living in a cave with no sources at all.

last edit!: The idea to "think for yourself" is not to start out in a cave...with no previous knowledge passed down to you. The idea is to take in sources...and make a judgment based on all the facts you find. Even biased information can prove helpful:the difference between the commercial television and the internet is that i have the ability to read what i want from a variety of sources, without the distraction of subtle brainwashing techniques and commercials promoting ridiculous products... the television in itself is not the problem, the problem is the fact that all the major channels are owned by the same entities... there is never a different view point on the news... none... CNN, FOX, BBC, etc, all have the same exact stories with the same exact agenda behind them... i agree with having multiple sources of information, it makes better for making ones own mind up on the subjects... not to mention all the ridiculous television shows that are also used to promote a certain ideology that co-relates with the media news... television is merely a hypnotic distraction, without having it on in my house all these years has allowed myself and my family to fill our heads with much more than the average sludge lamblasted across the big blue screen, has allowed us more time to do other things together as a family, and has allowed us to live our lives more fully and with a more open mind without nit being filled with the constant trash that flickers on screen. i read news from ALL sources, not just the ones here in america... i have a planetary mind, not a nationalistic mind. :)

Exadon

03-09-2009, 10:12 AM

mind up on the subjects... not to mention all the ridiculous television shows

Too bad...missing out on family guy

SimonM

03-09-2009, 10:14 AM

Did anyone mention that Iraq has the second largest oil reserve in the world? How conveeeenient.

Third actually... but Canada's is much more expensive to exploit.

uki

03-09-2009, 10:15 AM

Too bad...missing out on family guyhahaha!! you know... my girlfriends brother forgot the DVD series here on accident and i did stick it in to watch it, as funny as it was, this is exactly the crap that i am talking about that fills peoples heads. i only watched it once and that was more than enough for me. :D

BoulderDawg

03-09-2009, 10:19 AM

I would love for Mr. neolib to say it to my sons face.:cool:
BQ

At least Simon, David and others show a lot of intelligence and bring up good points in their post.

I'll express my political views to anyone and have on many occasions. And it does not surprise me that a threat of violence comes from people like you.

I've seen your ilk. I've done a few protest in my time and your kind are always on the sides in a group of 4-5 yelling every name in the book. After they get through with the name calling against you and your family when it the "Come over here and say it to my face" of course they are always in a group.........that's almost as bad as doing it on the internet.:D The best conbatant I've seen for that is a friend of mine would protest and carry a professional style movie camera. Man when you point that camera towards the Neos :D Hands go up in front of the faces and they head for the hills!

BoulderDawg

03-09-2009, 10:22 AM

Calling you a piece of garbage is an insult to garbage everywhere.

Hy Bad I don't know if you are on Facebook or not but I bet they would love you on this group.

I'm not currently in Facebook but I'm thinking of signing up for some of these great groups!

SimonM

03-09-2009, 10:25 AM

Oil? Are you talking about Afghanistan?

Afghanistan is about a natural gas pipeline that UNOCAL wanted to put through from Turkmenistan to Pakistan. Although some members of Al Quaeda were there the Taliban (I think this bears repeating) were willing to turn in any they actually could get a hold of rather than go to war.

BoulderDawg

03-09-2009, 10:26 AM

Too bad...missing out on family guy

I have a friend who's big time into these adult cartoons. Went over to his house and watched three hours of this thing called "The Venture Bros".....I never really saw the attraction.:p

BoulderDawg

03-09-2009, 10:30 AM

Even if the motivation for pursuing him for his misdeeds was political, even if it was because of the incendiary things Churchill says specifically, trying to avoid dismissal for plagiarism on a freedom of speech basis is about as valid as applying for tenure while lying by claiming to be a member of a minority ethnicity.

These standards are so standard that the entire academic community (apparently excluding Churchill) knows them in and out before the end of the first semester of their BA.

They are this:

NEVER CLAIM ANOTHER PERSON'S WORDS AS YOUR OWN. ALWAYS REFERENCE THE NAME OF THE SOURCE OF THE QUOTATION AND THE LOCATION THAT THE QUOTATION WAS DRAWN FROM.

You made it everybody's business by posting about the d@mn plagiarist on a public thread.

That's a particularly noxious form of academic fraud.

Well I guess we'll see...won't we? By the way you just accused Ward of all kinds of things without "sourcing" anything. Doesn't the standard apply to you?

Exadon

03-09-2009, 10:30 AM

hahaha!! you know... my girlfriends brother forgot the DVD series here on accident and i did stick it in to watch it, as funny as it was, this is exactly the crap that i am talking about that fills peoples heads. i only watched it once and that was more than enough for me. :D

I don't know...unless you are 2 years old and have a brain of a sponge (sorry sponge bob (http://www.tvsquad.com/images/2005/11/spongebob.jpg)) then you should be able to have your brain filter out the "crap".

And if you are 2 years old (or have a sponge brain) then the Internet is a far worse place then the news. With all the conspiracy theories floating around about everything from bigfoot to anal prob aliens

oh did I mention family guy is not crap? But yeah the Internet has just as many biased/controlled sources of information as Fox news / msnbc and so on.

EDIT: but I agree , at least with the internet you have more choices of where to get your information from.

Exadon

03-09-2009, 10:33 AM

I have a friend who's big time into these adult cartoons. Went over to his house and watched three hours of this thing called "The Venture Bros".....I never really saw the attraction.:p

The Venture Brothers is not the same type of "Adult cartoon" as family guy in the least. Those of use who have seen both would know.

Family guy has clever humor that pokes fun at all religions/races/stereotypes/public media/ and so on from the perspective of an over weight under educated middle class American and his dysfunctional family

Venture brothers is a parity of Johnny Quest cartoons

1bad65

03-09-2009, 10:42 AM

It's so funny watching you completely embarrass yourself trying to defend that plagiarizing poseur.

And remember, all that lying he did. He did it for $$$$$$.

1bad65

03-09-2009, 10:43 AM

1bad65

03-09-2009, 10:47 AM

BoulderDawg

03-09-2009, 10:48 AM

IAnd remember, all that lying he did. He did it for $$$$$$.

Shows what you know about Ward.

To start with, According to you he's in good company, Obama, Clinton and Churchill.....all lying MFers!:D

Finally Ward is a very modest man who is not the least interested in money. If he had the kind of money you think he does most of it would be donated to deserving charities.

SimonM

03-09-2009, 10:54 AM

The offending editorial cartoon which depicts two police officers standing over a now dead and bloodied Travis. One of the officers states: “They’ll have to find someone else to write the next stimulus bill.”

Wow... that's REALLY racist.

BoulderDawg

03-09-2009, 10:55 AM

"An August 2006 poll conducted by FOX News/Opinion Dynamics showed 51 percent of Democrats did not want Bush to succeed. Thirty-four percent of independents also did not want Bush to succeed."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/03/09/flashback-poll-showed-democrats-wanted-bush-fail/

Where was all the liberal outrage then? :rolleyes:

Several things here: Notice they did not link the original study. Somehow I sincere doubt the question that was asked was: "Do you want the president to fail?':D

By the way, liberals don't do "outrage". Everyone I know was laughing and saying they hoped Limpy kept it up!

SimonM

03-09-2009, 11:04 AM

That doesn't make a lick of sense. Why would the CIA overthrow an American puppet they had put in office in the first place and install a fundamentalist Islamic cleric.

Here is what really happened:

The shah was going down. The majority opinion of the state department was that balkanizing the middle east would help fight the soviets. The americans assumed that a religious government in Iran would be unlikely to ally with godless communists.

So they cut off support to the Shah.

It wasn't that he was actively overthrown by US interests. They just stood aside and let him fall.

Then it turned out that the guys who overthrew the Shah really hated the USA and would most likely back the soviets. So the USA amped up support for Iraq. This gave Saddam Hussein (who really DOES have CIA ties) access to a massive amount of weaponry. Things went peechy until the impression throughout the middle east (particularly among Arab populations, remember Iran is primarily Persian) that the USA was propping up Israel and were thus enemies. This put Saddam in a position of either risking his rulership or cutting ties with the USA. So he cut ties.

And then... he invaded Kuwait in a shameless grab for more money (you know because he cut his ties to the USA)... and the rest is recent history.

Osama Bin Laden

I have a numbe of muslim friends. Many of them have some... issues with the USA. And every single one of them wishes OBL would just die already (if he hasn't...)

Well I guess we'll see...won't we? By the way you just accused Ward of all kinds of things without "sourcing" anything. Doesn't the standard apply to you?

1) This is not an academic article, it is a posting on a forum. Citation rules don't apply.

2) I derive no profit from my posting here.

3) I attributed all quoted material not in the public domain to the person who said it without malice or subterfuge.

Drake

03-09-2009, 11:12 AM

whoa then... so it must be true, it was on the news... :rolleyes:

i have chosen to remain without cable, satellite, or commercial television for nearly 15 years... the obvious reasons being that i like to think for my self and make up my own mind. :)

It WAS a video, not a story. It was definitely Bin Laden.

Drake

03-09-2009, 11:13 AM

Uki believes state-run internet sites and 3rd party conspiracy theory sites over news.. WOW!

SimonM

03-09-2009, 11:14 AM

Finally Ward is a very modest man who is not the least interested in money. If he had the kind of money you think he does most of it would be donated to deserving charities.

ROFL!

Have you SEEN the payscale for tenured professors?!?!

And then there are payments for journal publications....

And then there are book royalties...

Drake

03-09-2009, 11:23 AM

And the vid was released by al jazeera, and who knows where they got it. It's not like the US Army was there filming it.

BoulderDawg

03-09-2009, 11:45 AM

Oh Lord!!!!!:D

Check this out:

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2009/03/bachmann_obama_1.php

According to Rep Bachman, President Obama is now working to enact the programs of Ward Churchill........................If it was only true!:)

Drake

03-09-2009, 11:51 AM

Never trust a man who lies for a job, and then profits off of genocide. I mean Ward Churchill, though this can apply to many...

SimonM

03-09-2009, 11:54 AM

Do you mean Michelle Bachmann? Because if so why would anybody care? This is the same person who said:

"The liberals that are Jeremiah Wright and that are Bill Ayers they are over the top anti-American, and that's the question Americans have. Remember it was Michelle Obama who said she was only recently proud of her country. And so these are very anti-American views. That's not the way that most Americans feel about our country. Most Americans, Chris, are wild about America and they're very concerned to have a president that does not share those values. …I am very concerned that he [Barack Obama] may have anti-American views."

She is a paranoid religious nut. So file under nobody sane cares what she says and move on.

Drake

03-09-2009, 11:58 AM

I don't care about political affiliation when I think anti-American. I think about those who attack our soldiers, those who would undermine basic tenets of the Constitution. Those who would, if able, provide comfort and support to our enemies. They don't belong in the USA.

As for the black helicopter chasers... I'd say they are more bat-ass crazy than un-American...

SimonM

03-09-2009, 12:04 PM

Never trust a man who lies for a job, and then profits off of genocide. I mean Ward Churchill, though this can apply to many...

George W. Bush for one.

SimonM

03-09-2009, 12:14 PM

I don't care about political affiliation when I think anti-American. I think about those who attack our soldiers, those who would undermine basic tenets of the Constitution.

Would you consider advocating for ammendments within the constitutionally included ammendment procedure to be undermining basic tenents?

I ask because all constitutions are supposed to be organic and changing laws, not religious texts.

uki

03-09-2009, 12:37 PM

It was definitely Bin Laden.so you've met him personally? or do you simply believe what your superiours tell you because that is your job?

and for the record... i am not anti-american(not implying that you called me as such - just clairifying)... i love this country, i just hate the government. i would defend my fellow countrymen from any foreign soldiers who might end up patrolling our streets and enforcing our laws. :)

1bad65

03-09-2009, 12:48 PM

One thing you can say for certain about the poseur Ward Chuchill, he must make some really good Kool-Aid.

Drake

03-09-2009, 05:36 PM

Would you consider advocating for ammendments within the constitutionally included ammendment procedure to be undermining basic tenents?

I ask because all constitutions are supposed to be organic and changing laws, not religious texts.

That's why we have the amendment procedure in place. I think the amendment system is pretty solid, and there's only been one incident where it didn't work.

SimonM

03-09-2009, 05:37 PM

That being?

Drake

03-09-2009, 05:42 PM

so you've met him personally? or do you simply believe what your superiours tell you because that is your job?

and for the record... i am not anti-american(not implying that you called me as such - just clairifying)... i love this country, i just hate the government. i would defend my fellow countrymen from any foreign soldiers who might end up patrolling our streets and enforcing our laws. :)

Well... the people who delivered the tape to al jazeera were allegedly al qaeda, and it certainly did look like him. Even had that Zawahiri guy in it too. Unless they cloned Bin Laden and raised his clone to his age, then I'd say it's him. Our government went over it too, only more thoroughly, doing the whole voice match thingee, and they think it's him. I was convinced before they said it was authentic, which they eventually did.

As for hating the government... do you hate the entire government? A branch in particular? The way it's set up? Do you hate the process of signing legislature into law? Do you hate the electoral system? Do you hate people being elected over appointed?

And you don't have to worry about foreign soldiers patrolling our streets. We're already on that, though many would criticize us for doing what is necessary.

Drake

03-09-2009, 05:43 PM

That being?

Prohibition. Didn't work out.

BoulderDawg

03-09-2009, 06:09 PM

i would defend my fellow countrymen from any foreign soldiers who might end up patrolling our streets and enforcing our laws. :)

And you just get a blank stare for Neos for even just the suggestion that Iraqis have the same feelings about their country.

Americans simply think they run the world and do whatever they please.

When I went to France I heard a few horror stories about American tourist. One guy (A waiter in a restaurant) told me about this incident with this old guy who had one of those little American flags who was just being a total ass by continuing to shove the flag in people's faces who were sitting around him. According to this waiter they were afraid to do anything to the guy until finally one guy threatened to beat the S out of the old man.

Whenever I go abroad I end up spending about half my time apologizing for people such as this.

Hardwork108

03-09-2009, 06:39 PM

Here is what really happened:

The shah was going down. The majority opinion of the state department was that balkanizing the middle east would help fight the soviets. The americans assumed that a religious government in Iran would be unlikely to ally with godless communists.

Wrong!

It was all organised by the CIA and the British MI6. The BBC through its daily persian language broadcasts would inform the revolutionary Iranians of dates and places for demonstrations and strikes.

Western media overinflated alleged human rights violations by the monarchist government. The Shah was interviewed by David Frost who did his best to make him look bad and guilty. Yes the same David Frost that decades later did not flinch and brushed over Benazir Bhutos remark which claimed that Bin Laden had been murdered by a Paksistani military man.

During the turmoils a US official was sent to Teheran (Iran) to dissuade the Shah of using force against the demonstrators and advised him to leave the country. No doubt this was only for "humanatarian" reasons. Knowing how much the US leadership "cared" and "cares" about human life.:rolleyes:

The whole thing was planned from beginning to the very end.

So they cut off support to the Shah.
They had cut "support" a lot earlier.

It wasn't that he was actively overthrown by US interests. They just stood aside and let him fall.

He was ACTIVELY overthrown by US and British interest. Read the Anglo American oil cartles.

Furthermore his 25 year contract with the British Petroleum company had ended or was coming to an end. It seemed that the next contract would not be so favorable to the western oil giant, either!

Then it turned out that the guys who overthrew the Shah really hated the USA and would most likely back the soviets.
LOL! These people had claimed that they HATED the USA long before they came to power. And somehow the powerfull CIA, the NSA, British MI5 and the other European (ally) agencies missed this. Nobody saw or heard the death to America slogans nor the burning American flags. All this was going on before these people got to power.

Simon, get your facts right!!!!

So the USA amped up support for Iraq.

And Iran apparently because both sides were armed by the US and the by a lesser degree by the UK.

This gave Saddam Hussein (who really DOES have CIA ties) access to a massive amount of weaponry.

It apparently gave the Iranians who you think did not have CIA ties access to massive weaponary as well.

Things went peechy until the impression throughout the middle east (particularly among Arab populations, remember Iran is primarily Persian) that the USA was propping up Israel and were thus enemies. This put Saddam in a position of either risking his rulership or cutting ties with the USA. So he cut ties.

I believe that it was the US and the west that "cut ties" when they suddenly discovered Saddam to be a nasty individual who was "violating human rights". So they did a "shah of Iran" job on him and cut ties. However, their policy towards him was to plan a longer term overthrow. To make the maximum money/profits and all that.

And then... he invaded Kuwait in a shameless grab for more money (you know because he cut his ties to the USA)... and the rest is recent history.

Tell me something Simon. Do you watch many repeats of the A Team?

I have a numbe of muslim friends. Many of them have some... issues with the USA. And every single one of them wishes OBL would just die already (if he hasn't...)
Well apparently some people say that he did die already.

It is very disturbing that the Journalist who interviewed Benazir Bhuto (a very respected Pakistani politician) did not even flinch when she mentioned that Osama had been killed and even named the killer.

It is more disturbing that the general "free" (what a laugh) press maintaned silence over this potential explosive revelation.

It is also funny that no one here has commented on this fact either....lol.

1)This is not an academic article, it is a posting on a forum.
No Sh¡t, Simon!

I guess that we will never know.

3) I attributed all quoted material not in the public domain to the person who said it without malice or subterfuge.
:confused:

Drake

03-09-2009, 06:46 PM

It would better if OBL was killed by muslims. I think that would do wonders in bolstering the muslim image. Cleaning their own house, that sort of thing. We did it with McVeigh.

Hardwork108

03-09-2009, 07:48 PM

It would better if OBL was killed by muslims.

If he was then it was a Muslim Pakistani military/intelligence agent that pulled the trigger. BTW, Pakistani intelligence has very close links with the CIA.

If Bin Laden has indeed been killed in the manner described by Benazir Bhuto then this would raise many questions. This may explain the silence of world leaders and their lap dog "free" press.

Drake

03-09-2009, 07:50 PM

btw, pakistani intelligence has very close links with the cia.

o rly? .......

uki

03-09-2009, 08:03 PM

And you just get a blank stare for Neos for even just the suggestion that Iraqis have the same feelings about their country.they are called insurgents. :D

Americans simply think they run the world and do whatever they please.the sad truth.

When I went to France I heard a few horror stories about American tourist. One guy (A waiter in a restaurant) told me about this incident with this old guy who had one of those little American flags who was just being a total ass by continuing to shove the flag in people's faces who were sitting around him. According to this waiter they were afraid to do anything to the guy until finally one guy threatened to beat the S out of the old man.

Whenever I go abroad I end up spending about half my time apologizing for people such as this.yeah i hear ya... i am almost ashamed when i have to show my passport in another country... i really am like "i was born there, it's not my fault." :p

but then again, it's the americans like us that might actually regain some credibility by showing the rest of the world that all americans are not as stupid as those in the television shows. :D

Drake

03-09-2009, 08:08 PM

Strange...I was welcomed with open arms in Nancy. In fact, Europeans are typically very fond of American soldiers. But what do I know? I've only travelled most of the EU.

Hardwork108

03-09-2009, 08:20 PM

Strange...I was welcomed with open arms in Nancy. In fact, Europeans are typically very fond of American soldiers. But what do I know? I've only travelled most of the EU.

Did you get a lot of women?:D

Hardwork108

03-09-2009, 08:20 PM

o rly? .......

Yes really.:p

BoulderDawg

03-09-2009, 08:35 PM

Did you get a lot of women?:D

Oh yes, in his extensive travels, his military "missions", his diplomatic work and his highly secret government work he has female "contacts" in every country.

You have to when you're as important as this guy.

Drake

03-09-2009, 08:40 PM

Did you get a lot of women?:D

I did during my first tour there. :D

I was married during my second visit, so no dice. :eek:

Hardwork108

03-09-2009, 09:01 PM

I did during my first tour there. :D

Good on you. :)

I was married during my second visit, so no dice. :eek:

So what stopped you? :D

Drake

03-09-2009, 09:15 PM

Good on you. :)

So what stopped you? :D

Some pretty explicit threats of harm if I were to wander... :eek:

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 01:13 AM

Maybe you Neos can answer a question for me:

I've just read an article about John McCain daughter, Meghan......In the article she blast Anne Coulter. Also it sounds like she hates her old man and is glad he lost......so much for "family Values" there I guess!:D

Anyway, my question is:

I also read where she was complaining that she can not get a date. Why is that? Here's a young woman who's rich and fairly attractive but nobody will touch her with a 10 foot poll!:D I don't hang around the kids of Neos that much but do they really F with their heads so much that nobody wants to be around them?

Probably craziness runs in the family. I recently read an article that talked about the fact that McCain's brother made a profanity laced call to 911 about a traffic jam....:D

Kansuke

03-10-2009, 01:20 AM

Didn't you previously post about how liberals like yourself don't hate anyone?

YOU ****ING HYPOCRITE!

SimonM

03-10-2009, 05:39 AM

Prohibition. Didn't work out.

This is true.

Now if only both our countries would learn from that and decriminalize pot...

sanjuro_ronin

03-10-2009, 06:19 AM

This is true.

Now if only both our countries would learn from that and decriminalize pot...

While I agree that prohibition didn't work, I am not sure we wanna apply that mode of thinking to everything that is currently illegal.
Certainly I can see the view point in regards to Weed, but where do you stop and how does the stopping?

1bad65

03-10-2009, 06:22 AM

This is true.

Now if only both our countries would learn from that and decriminalize pot...

It will be tough to do that. Once seizure laws were passed, it made drugs profitable for the government/law enforcement. People don't generally voluntarily give up sources of income.

1bad65

03-10-2009, 06:24 AM

If you're so ashamed of being an American, move overseas and renounce your citizenship. You're free to do that, ya know.

It's communist countries that kill people for trying to leave.

uki

03-10-2009, 08:01 AM

But what do I know? I've only travelled most of the EU.yeah me too, only i lived at street level and inter-reacted with the average person on the streets instead of those that soldiers would inter-react with on a daily basis... i spent 2 years living as a street juggler and from the street level i can tell you that most people are pretty sick of american foreign policy... people only like american soldiers there because at the time before the economic collapse, soldiers had dollars... thats it. of course this is a generalized blanket statement, but it is the rule of the majority... most people i met found america to be ridiculous... everything from the lazy-arsed housewives to the ability to sue someone millions of dollars because they can't use some common sense. i can't even imagine what the hostility would be like at the present time in this global economic crisis, which was perpetrated right here in the good ole u.s. of a. the american people have been hoodwinked for many years now and those in our government are guilty of treason for their traitorous policies that have dissected the country into a kazillion pieces such as selling port rights to middle eastern countries and to china... america is not free... you're only free to do what you're told. i am not singling out america as the only country guilty of the mess, i only speak of america because i live here... the UN is just as responsible for the current world situation as america and the other countries controlled by the big corporations, bankers, and lobbyists. people truly need to wake up and take a long hard look at what is going on in the world in order to get their priorities straightened out.

SimonM

03-10-2009, 08:27 AM

While I agree that prohibition didn't work, I am not sure we wanna apply that mode of thinking to everything that is currently illegal.
Certainly I can see the view point in regards to Weed, but where do you stop and how does the stopping?

Personally I would prefer addiction to be handled entirely as a medical issue. You'd take away a major revenue stream from organized crime, would significantly reduce prison population, would pump money into the medical sector (skilled jobs), could create a large tax revenue draw off of controlled substances, and would keep addicts in the workforce.

It's communist countries that kill people for trying to leave.

Not really...

The PRC - though not ACTUALLY, ideologically, communist - wears "communism" as a facade and they all but packed my wife's bags for her when she moved to Canada.

(PS: I removed you from ignore... it doesn't work anyway.)

1bad65

03-10-2009, 08:31 AM

Don't worry about how America is perceived overseas. After all, Obama is now the President. :rolleyes: Let's see how he handled the first official visit by the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom:

Barack Obama 'too tired' to give proper welcome to Gordon Brown

"British officials, meanwhile, admit that the White House and US State Department staff were utterly bemused by complaints that the Prime Minister should have been granted full-blown press conference and a formal dinner, as has been customary. They concede that Obama aides seemed unfamiliar with the expectations that surround a major visit by a British prime minister.

But they concede that the mood music of the event was at times strained. Mr Brown handed over carefully selected gifts, including a pen holder made from the wood of a warship that helped stamp out the slave trade - a sister ship of the vessel from which timbers were taken to build Mr Obama's Oval Office desk. Mr Obama's gift in return, a collection of Hollywood film DVDs that could have been bought from any high street store, looked like the kind of thing the White House might hand out to the visiting head of a minor African state.

The [State Department] official dismissed any notion of the special relationship, saying: "There's nothing special about Britain. You're just the same as the other 190 countries in the world. You shouldn't expect special treatment." The apparent lack of attention to detail by the Obama administration is indicative of what many believe to be Mr Obama's determination to do too much too quickly."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/4953523/Barack-Obama-too-tired-to-give-proper-welcome-to-Gordon-Brown.html

Wow, what a way to improve relations. :rolleyes:

1bad65

03-10-2009, 08:33 AM

Not really...

The Berlin Wall was built to keep people IN, not to keep people OUT.

(PS: I removed you from ignore... it doesn't work anyway.)

Thanks.

Hey, you did it just in time to see me give you props for your posts concerning the poseur Ward Churchill. ;)

SimonM

03-10-2009, 08:35 AM

Which official are you quoting. Where did they say that and when?

1bad65

03-10-2009, 08:39 AM

And don't worry, the economy is in good hands too:

"You know, I have more than enough to do without having to worry about the financial system." -Barack Obama

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/us/politics/08callback.html
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_030909/content/01125116.guest.html

SimonM

03-10-2009, 08:49 AM

Do you have a where and when for the quote which doesn't depend on known dirty-rotten-liar and raving nutjob Rush Limbaugh?

And an attribution for your previously unnamed state department official?

uki

03-10-2009, 09:05 AM

The Berlin Wall was built to keep people IN, not to keep people OUT.just like the smokescreen bull that the border fences with mexico and canada are to keep potential terroristsa and illegal immigrants out, when the real purpose is to keep americans in when martial law is declared after the complete economic collapse.

SimonM

03-10-2009, 09:30 AM

Border fences with Canada?

Fact check Uki.

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 09:40 AM

Barack Obama 'too tired' to give proper welcome to Gordon Brown

"British officials, meanwhile, admit that the White House and US State Department staff were utterly bemused by complaints that the Prime Minister should have been granted full-blown press conference and a formal dinner, as has been customary. They concede that Obama aides seemed unfamiliar with the expectations that surround a major visit by a British prime minister.

Mr Obama's gift in return, a collection of Hollywood film DVDs that could have been bought from any high street store, looked like the kind of thing the White House might hand out to the visiting head of a minor African state.

The way I see it if Brown doesn't like he can stay over there in the UK. The days of kissing ass to the Brits/Chinese and a select few are over.

And yes, there will be no difference in the way a small nation is treated. I can see your disgusting Neo philosophy now.....Let's feed those stupid Ns from Africa some fatback and greens, give them a few colored beads and a doo rag or two and they'll go home happy.

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 09:42 AM

The Berlin Wall was built to keep people IN, not to keep people OUT.

So? Last time I checked the Berlin wall was torn down about 18 years ago. Did they rebuild it?

uki

03-10-2009, 10:25 AM

Border fences with Canada?

Fact check Uki.
why certainly sir...

http://www.borderfenceproject.com/

http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/story.html?id=adb8fb97-ddce-4524-b571-4c1ccf6403b8&k=40788

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/07/30/armed-border.html

i realize there are no fences yet... but it only takes a few pebbles to start an avalanche... the new policy of american boaters to have all boats registered on waterways and the arming of canadian border guards is testamant to a wider agenda that will ultimately will result in an armed and dangerous border with canada... this in itself will amount to a "fence" that will deter people from crossing in attempts to evacuate the chaos coming to america when the food riots start... your country already has the go ahead to help the pentagon and american armed forces to help enforce martial law and quell social unrest...

http://www.northcom.mil/News/2008/021408.html

http://thesecretsofvancouver.com/wordpress/preparing-for-civil-unrest-in-the-usa/activists

http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=46574

http://thesigintreport.com/wordpress/archives/129

you gotta read between the lines and see thru the smokescreens... the ultimate goal is becoming self-evident. :)

SimonM

03-10-2009, 10:38 AM

Canadian border guards being armed... that's a hell of a lot different from a border fence.

The border between Canada and the USA remains the longest undefended border in the world.

The border guards having pistols and tazers does not constitute military defense of it. Anyone and their brother could still wander across the border in Manatoba or northern Ontario or a hundred other rural points and never so much as see a border guard.

Your article was from 2005. Despite the paranoic clamoring of DHS no border fence was ever built.

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 10:42 AM

This fence thing......The Neos won't admit it but the only reason for the fence is to keep the Mexicans out of the US. As mentioned , they sure don't have one in Canada and I think I read somewhere that 60% of the Canadian population lives within 50 miles of the American border. Something like that....a large number live close anyway.

The "We need to keep terrorist out" argument is laughable. Remind me how many miles of coast line we have. They can enter anywhere at any time.

1bad65

03-10-2009, 10:53 AM

Do you have a where and when for the quote which doesn't depend on known dirty-rotten-liar and raving nutjob Rush Limbaugh?

And an attribution for your previously unnamed state department official?

I mentioned Rush because he posted it AND he played the Obama quote about the economy.

As for the State Department official, you either believe The Telegraph UK or you don't. I highly doubt a newspaper would just make up quotes.

1bad65

03-10-2009, 10:54 AM

And yes, there will be no difference in the way a small nation is treated. I can see your disgusting Neo philosophy now.....Let's feed those stupid Ns from Africa some fatback and greens, give them a few colored beads and a doo rag or two and they'll go home happy.

No space cadet, I quoted a BRITISH paper word-for-word and sourced it.

Is The Telegraph UK a "Neo blog" now? :rolleyes:

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 10:55 AM

i realize there are no fences yet... but it only takes a few pebbles to start an avalanche... the new policy of american boaters to have all boats registered on waterways and the arming of canadian border guards is testamant to a wider agenda that will ultimately will result in an armed and dangerous border with canada... this in itself will amount to a "fence" that will deter people from crossing in attempts to evacuate the chaos coming to america when the food riots start... your country already has the go ahead to help the pentagon and american armed forces to help enforce martial law and quell social unrest...

You know, I'm not quite ready yet to believe that we have a future of a Mad Max America with several hundred different governments and people are fighting for food.

That said I don't totally discount it either. My best friend's brother is a US congressman. My friend was telling me a few months ago that his brother said privately that it might be a good idea to start warehousing maybe a 6 month to a year supply of food. Now this is coming from a United States congressman.

SimonM

03-10-2009, 10:55 AM

Threats of a security fence were a usual (transparent) bluster of the executive branch and their DHS thugs to try and get Canada to play into their "fortress america" joint security initiative.

The liberals always said "no".
The conservatives usually did because not saying "no" would have resulted in them being turfed quick. We Canadians are touchy over sovereignty issues.

We all know you Americans could never AFFORD the fence so we are not concerned.

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 10:57 AM

boulderdawg,

are your serious?

you have some serious issues.

nice racist words.

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 11:02 AM

boulderdawg,

you have some serious issues.

Really? :D

I'm not the one here who implies that he's the baddest man on the planet and will take everyone out if they just come though his "open door".:eek:

SimonM

03-10-2009, 11:02 AM

I mentioned Rush because he posted it AND he played the Obama quote about the economy.

As for the State Department official, you either believe The Telegraph UK or you don't. I highly doubt a newspaper would just make up quotes.

I tend not to trust any source without at least having confirmation of it from two reputable independent sources.

Of which Limbaugh does not qualify.

I am extremely dubious of a random quote from an unnamed "official" in the state department.

As for the Daily Telegraph...

They are just about the most conservative newspaper in the mainstream of the UK.

And the UK mainstream produced Margaret Thatcher... who was psychotically conservative... so I would take what I read from that paper with more than a small grain of salt.

I barely trust what Sun Media here in Canada publishes and they aren't as right wing as that lot.

Do you guys have media awareness as a subject in high school? You should.

uki

03-10-2009, 11:03 AM

:oMy friend was telling me a few months ago that his brother said privately that it might be a good idea to start warehousing maybe a 6 month to a year supply of food. Now this is coming from a United States congressman.i have a have an aquaintance who's line of work is in the intelligence community and he has said simply to stock up. period.

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 11:06 AM

Really? :D

I'm not the one here who implies that he's the baddest man on the planet and will take everyone out if they just come though his "open door".:eek:

Uki,

I do not throw out racist words like BD just did in his last post.

He made mention of "feeding the Ns in africa."

Not cool.

Not cool at all to be using those terms.

Im hoping you are just being a jack a s s and not trying to say that using such language is acceptable.

1bad65

03-10-2009, 11:06 AM

I am extremely dubious of a random quote from an unnamed "official" in the state department.

Honestly, there is nothing unusual about that.

Come on Simon. Even Obama's own people admit they handled it poorly.

sanjuro_ronin

03-10-2009, 11:07 AM

:oi have a have an aquaintance who's line of work is in the intelligence community and he has said simply to stock up. period.

That's just good advice at any point of a economic turnaround, be ita good one or a bad one.

1bad65

03-10-2009, 11:08 AM

You may not like Dale's attitude, but he's 100% correct that you spew racism.

And you do know, he's not nearly the only one.

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 11:17 AM

Uki,

I do not throw out racist words like BD just did in his last post.

He made mention of "feeding the Ns in africa."

Not cool.

Not cool at all to be using those terms.

Im hoping you are just being a jack a s s and not trying to say that using such language is acceptable.

You need to learn how to read. First of all Uki did not write that.

Maybe you neos should also learn there is a little more to racism than using the N word. Also it's funny that you didn't have any problem with the word until black people started using it themselves then you guys just went nuts.

I'm laughing at what you deem acceptable and unacceptable. For you it is acceptable to come on this board and invite anyone who doesn't like your opinion to "cross hands" with you.

As far as I'm concerned telling the truth about racism in America is acceptable. And violence against other is waay unacceptable.

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 11:20 AM

You need to learn how to read. First of all Uki did not write that.

Maybe you neos should also learn there is a little more to racism than using the N word. Also it's funny that you didn't have any problem with the word until black people started using it themselves then you guys just went nuts.

I'm laughing at what you deem acceptable and unacceptable. For you it is acceptable to come on this board and invite anyone who doesn't like your opinion to "cross hands" with you.

As far as I'm concerned telling the truth about racism in America is acceptable. And violence against other is waay unacceptable.

Actually you mentioned those words in one of your posts, you racist pig.

I have always had a problem with the N word. You want to call someone a Negro has similar connotations as well.

Seems you are nothing more than racist trash.

Sad, very sad.

SimonM

03-10-2009, 11:21 AM

Is The Telegraph UK a "Neo blog" now? :rolleyes:

No but it's essentially the official media presence of the conservative party of the UK...

Just as the Guardian is virtually the official media presence of the Labour party.

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 11:25 AM

You may not like Dale's attitude, but he's 100% correct that you spew racism.

And you do know, he's not nearly the only one.

I didn't quote an article that suggested an small African nation be treated differently that a powerful white country. But in your eyes I guess for me to question why one group should be treated differently is tantamount to racism in your neo world.:D

Anyway if the Neos are so much into civil and equal rights then how come less than 5% of blacks in America identify with them? Conservatives are religious, so are a lot of black people. Looks like if you guys are so in tune to the issues facing black America you would do a lot better in the polls.

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 11:32 AM

1bad65

03-10-2009, 11:39 AM

I didn't quote an article that suggested an small African nation be treated differently that a powerful white country.

Idiot, I quoted a major UK paper. It's not like I quoted some hate-groups pamphlets. :rolleyes:

You may not like what THEY had to say, but THEY said it. And I quoted THEM.

1bad65

03-10-2009, 11:41 AM

No but it's essentially the official media presence of the conservative party of the UK...

Just as the Guardian is virtually the official media presence of the Labour party.

You're a rational guy.

So, let's be honest here. Are you saying or suggesting The Telegraph just made up the quote?

FYI, even the Obama Administration has not suggested that. Nor have they denied a State Department official said it.

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 11:42 AM

Funny that you and others who hide on the internet are all up in arms about my attitude.

Being that anyone can find me, come talk with me, call me on my phone, come visit where I teach, I find it rather offensive that you and the other cowards here and other places make offhand as well as some seriously messed up comments yet refuse to stand up and be known.

But then you would be looking over your shoulder more than you could stand wouldn't you?

You are a sad, sad little coward.

Sure man whatever.:D I should come 2500 miles just to see you.....of course I'm a coward for not doing so!:D

Here's a situation for you to ponder: Let's say a small group of friends of 4-5 brothers come to join your school. They're out on the floor having a great time and becoming relaxed when one of guys says to another one of his friends "Nigga you can't do that kick"....You overhear that.

I'm just interested in what you do next.......

1bad65

03-10-2009, 11:42 AM

Being that anyone can find me, come talk with me, call me on my phone, come visit where I teach, I find it rather offensive that you and the other cowards here and other places make offhand as well as some seriously messed up comments yet refuse to stand up and be known.

He's too busy trying to buddy-up to poseurs like Ward Churchill to come see you. ;)

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 11:44 AM

Idiot, I quoted a major UK paper. It's not like I quoted some hate-groups pamphlets. :rolleyes:

You may not like what THEY had to say, but THEY said it. And I quoted THEM.

I could care less if the Queen said it. "They" said it and "YOU" spread it.

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 11:45 AM

Sure man whatever.:D I should come 2500 miles just to see you.....of course I'm a coward for not doing so!:D

Here's a situation for you to ponder: Let's say a small group of friends of 4-5 brothers come to join your school. They're out on the floor having a great time and becoming relaxed when one of guys says to another one of his friends "Nigga you can't do that kick"....You overhear that.

I'm just interested in what you do next.......

You are a coward for all this brave talk, yet you and other cowards hide.

You talk big, and show nothing, hence you are nothing.

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 11:49 AM

You are a coward for all this brave talk, yet you and other cowards hide.

You talk big, and show nothing, hence you are nothing.

It does not surprise me you won't tell me what you would do to a student using the N word in your school. Should not you be properly outraged and kick the entire group out?

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 11:54 AM

It does not surprise me you won't tell me what you would do to a student using the N word in your school. Should not you be properly outraged and kick the entire group out?

Why would I kick out a person for using a racial epithet that is used in their community?

That is not a racist comment but more reclaiming something that has been exploited by others.

If they were not Black or have any of that ethnic group I would ask them to not use that word. If they told me to "shove it." they would be removed from my class.

Add to this my students would know that this is not acceptable in class.

again big words from someone who hides.

golden arhat

03-10-2009, 11:55 AM

No space cadet, I quoted a BRITISH paper word-for-word and sourced it.

Is The Telegraph UK a "Neo blog" now? :rolleyes:

you may not know it but the telegraph is an openly conservative publication. good or bad.

Drake

03-10-2009, 11:59 AM

golden arhat

03-10-2009, 12:00 PM

No but it's essentially the official media presence of the conservative party of the UK...

Just as the Guardian is virtually the official media presence of the Labour party.

actually the conservative and labour party are virtually the same thing here.

the guardian is privately owned and has alot of (but not exclusively) left wing views and doesnt back any party

sorry but i have to defend the guardian (should it be defending me?) for just being an excellent paper which is'nt owned by anyone and tries its best to tell the truth as much as humanely possible.

my dad is about the most conservative person in THE WORLD and he reads the guardian.

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 12:02 PM

I lived on the economy in Germany, not on post. I also did several exercises with our German partner unit. Believe me... I stayed away from Army stuff as much as I could after duty hours. You can only handle so much of that stuff.

And I am SO calling Dale tonight after work! :D

Im in class until 9 PM eastern time. Im working towards my Masters in Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine.

look forward to it brother.

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 12:04 PM

Why would I kick out a person for using a racial epithet that is used in their community?

That is not a racist comment but more reclaiming something that has been exploited by others.

If they were not Black or have any of that ethnic group I would ask them to not use that word. If they told me to "shove it." they would be removed from my class.

Add to this my students would know that this is not acceptable in class.

So it's okay for some to use the word but not others? I thought you always had a problem with the N word. It should not matter who said it. Are you changing your argument?

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 12:08 PM

BD,

You seem to be unable to understand where most of us are coming from. Sorry that you cannot fathom people not wanting to use terms that are unacceptable due to the history of the word.

Black people want to use the term to reclaim it, so be it.

Women who want to use the c word to describe their nether regions. so be it.

its racist to use a term that does not apply to you and your race. it is rather simple.

Are you a caucasian BD, if you are your dropping of the N reference in the post I referenced is uncool, and racist.

SimonM

03-10-2009, 12:12 PM

You're a rational guy.

So, let's be honest here. Are you saying or suggesting The Telegraph just made up the quote?

FYI, even the Obama Administration has not suggested that. Nor have they denied a State Department official said it.

No, I'm saying that before I would trust them I would need to A) know that their source was legitimate and B) know the context of the quote provided to determine if the use of it was, in fact, something legitimate.

As you are the first I have heard mentioning this diplomatic SNAFU I am telling you that citing the most conservative mainstream newspaper in a conservative country is strongly biassed... rougly equivalent to if I were to... I don't know... cite Xinhua.

uki

03-10-2009, 12:34 PM

1bad65

03-10-2009, 12:47 PM

I could care less if the Queen said it. "They" said it and "YOU" spread it.

So, by your 'logic', anyone who quotes any Nazi is a Nazi. Right? So there sure must be a ton of historians, professors, students, etc who are Nazis. :rolleyes:

1bad65

03-10-2009, 12:49 PM

BD,

You seem to be unable to understand where most of us are coming from.

That's par for the course. He really does live in a world all his own.

1bad65

03-10-2009, 12:51 PM

No, I'm saying that before I would trust them I would need to A) know that their source was legitimate and B) know the context of the quote provided that the source was, in fact, legitimate.

As you are the first I have heard mentioning this diplomatic SNAFU I am telling you that citing the most conservative mainstream newspaper in a conservative country is a strongly biassed... rougly equivalent to if I were to... I don't know... cite Xinhua.

I did link to the entire article.

Whenever I use parts of an article, I ALWAYS link to the entire article. After all, I'm not BD. ;)

SimonM

03-10-2009, 12:53 PM

My issue was with the context of the quote in it's original environment. IE: what was said before and after the quote and with the source of the quote.

Linking the article doesn't solve that problem... particularly the first.

Here, let me explain in greater detail:

Sources close to the White House say
Who?

But Washington figures with access to Mr Obama's inner circle

Who??

Allies of Mr Obama

WHO???

A well-connected Washington figure, who is close to members of Mr Obama's inner circle, expressed concern that Mr Obama had failed so far to "even fake an interest in foreign policy".

WHO?!?

The American source said

Who the heck is this source? Rahm Emanuel? John McCain? The ghost of JFK?

Mr Obama rang Mr Brown as he flew home, in what many suspected was an attempt to make amends.

Who the fvck are many?!?!?

The editorial staff of the Telegraph, that's who but we digress...

The real views of many in Obama administration were laid bare by a State Department official involved in planning the Brown visit

Which state department official. What was his name, what office did he hold, was he appointed by Obama? Did he predate Obama?

The real views of many in Obama administration {sic} were laid bare by a State Department official involved in planning the Brown visit

Who are "many in the Obama administration"?

The Sunday Telegraph understands that one of Mr Obama's most prominent African American backers, whose endorsement he spent two years cultivating, has told friends that he detects a weakness in Mr Obama's character.

Oh, they understand do they? And how do they understand that? Which backer? Why? If the backer exists and if the backer DOES "detect a weakness" what is the nature of the weakness? Does it have anything to do with Brown's visit?

"The one real serious flaw I see in Barack Obama is that he thinks he can manage all this," the well-known figure told a Washington official, who spoke to this newspaper. "He's underestimating the flood of things that will hit his desk."

Annonymously quoting an annonymous quote... there's quality* journalism.

*Poor quality to be specific.

A Democratic strategist, who is friends with several senior White House aides,

Again who is this?

How many different "sources" have the Telegraph used? Do we have reason to trust any of them? So far the only NAMED people are Gordon Brown and Barack Obama, both of whom have apparently remained silent on the issue.

He said that on several occasions the president has had to hurry back from eating dinner with his family in the residence and then tucking his daughters in to bed, to conduct urgent government business. Matters are not helped by the pledge to give up smoking.

Ok... changing my tune a little. Still don't know who this guy is but now I have to ask:

So what?

Like I said: media awareness is important.

It's not necessary that the newspaper print a technical "mistruth" in order to lie.

They could have got this all from the state department janitor who was hired during the bush administration because he is the great grandson of a GOP contributor and who believes he's friendly with the junior assistant to the junior assistant to the undersecretary in charge of Latvian relations...

As long as they quoted what he told them they wouldn't actually be "lying".

But they wouldn't be telling the truth either.

This is why multiple, independent, sources are crucial.

Oh... and I have to change my statement. Having read the whole article I have to say this: Xinhua reports are better than that. At least they NAME the mouthpieces they quote.

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 01:06 PM

personally i think people who cry out racism (people of any color) are the ones who entice it, wether consciously or not... i don't see racism, i simply see people tossing labels around that instigate strife... for every finger you point, there are three others pointing back at you. calling people names is stooping to a lower level of being... we are all guilty of calling people names, be it d0rk or a racist, yet both amount to the same thing... ignorance... it is something that must be worked on by all people. elevating oneself above simply calling people names should be high on everyones priority lists... even you dale dugas, calling people cowards and mouthboxers at whim and nearly in every conversation you involve yourself in is childish and only perpetrates more strife... true martial artists are supposed to be keeping the peace and teaching others thru their actions, but what would i know... i am just a cowardly mouth-boxing jack a s s... :rolleyes:

so rather than call out BD for using racist terms in one of his posts, you bring my name up.

I called him on it. Do you agree with what he posted or not?

As everyone should call people on the things they do and say when its not right.

call me a name caller. but if the shoe fits wear it. call me a tough guy, at least I call people out on the things they do/post/say.

BD is showing himself to be nothing more than an ignorant person who has knee jerk reactions to varied things in life.

I have reactions to unknown martial artists who claim much but can show or do very little.

Exadon

03-10-2009, 01:09 PM

personally i think people who cry out racism ... we are all guilty of calling people names, be it d0rk or a racist, yet both amount to the same thing... ignorance...

err no. saying things like:
Let's feed those stupid Ns from Africa
is racism.

... calling it racism labels it for what it is. Judging a race from one country as "stupid Ns" is pure racism.

Yeah we are all quilty of callnig people names. Not ignorantly judge a whole race

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 01:13 PM

Another person who can think for themselves.

Bravo, brother.

Drake

03-10-2009, 01:16 PM

Another person who can think for themselves.

Bravo, brother.

Answering machine, man...

uki

03-10-2009, 01:19 PM

Do you agree with what he posted or not?i do not agree with name calling period if it is used to create strife... yet i do realize that the n-word is used regularily by alot of people of many skin colors... personally i think it is a bit ridiculous to get offended by someone who uses it... but each to their own... i simply used you as an example because you like to call people names alot and they sure don't rub off as being in a joking manner.

SimonM

03-10-2009, 01:20 PM

Did a major edit to my last post... several people posted while I did so. For my critique of the newspaper article we are discussing please look at my last post.

Drake

03-10-2009, 01:23 PM

i do not agree with name calling period if it is used to create strife... yet i do realize that the n-word is used regularily by alot of people of many skin colors... personally i think it is a bit ridiculous to get offended by someone who uses it... but each to their own... i simply used you as an example because you like to call people names alot and they sure don't rub off as being in a joking manner.

It's an offensive word. I don't know where you come from, but in my world, using it within earshot of me will get you 50 pushups, if not worse. The Army isn't tolerant of racist terms, and it's a surefire career-ender if you are using them. In my world, you judge a person by their performance, and don't see them as anything except soldiers.

Fact is, BD is very VERY confused, and to make it worse, refuses to accept this. He justifies racist terms, which HOPEFULLY gets the guy banned, supports proven cheats and frauds, and is ridiculously fanatical in a cause which seems to shift every 5 seconds.

I've had him on ignore for several days now, but from what I've seen from people quoting him, he's gone from bad to worse.

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 01:42 PM

Drake,

Sorry about that. I was in class. Nice to talk with you. Always great to speak with a real person.

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 01:49 PM

err no. saying things like:

Originally Posted by BoulderDawg:
Let's feed those stupid Ns from Africa

is racism.

... calling it racism labels it for what it is. Judging a race from one country as "stupid Ns" is pure racism.

Yeah we are all quilty of callnig people names. Not ignorantly judge a whole race

Quoting out of context.......fabulous!:D I'm waitng to hear what was racist about the post I made.....Anybody?

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 01:50 PM

that you cannot even man up about what you wrote is sad, lame and pathetic.

You made an obvious racist snipe. Let's feed those stupid Ns from Africa

do you not remember it?

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 01:54 PM

The way I see it if Brown doesn't like he can stay over there in the UK. The days of kissing ass to the Brits/Chinese and a select few are over.

And yes, there will be no difference in the way a small nation is treated. I can see your disgusting Neo philosophy now.....Let's feed those stupid Ns from Africa some fatback and greens, give them a few colored beads and a doo rag or two and they'll go home happy.

This is you using the words "feed those stupid Ns from Africa." these were words you chose thinking you could put them in others mouths with the whole I can see you saying this routine.

But you said this and no one else on this thread did.

that speaks volumes as to what you hold in your heart.

Sad, lame little boy.

Drake

03-10-2009, 01:56 PM

Drake,

Sorry about that. I was in class. Nice to talk with you. Always great to speak with a real person.

Likewise, man. Good luck in class!

Exadon

03-10-2009, 01:58 PM

Quoting out of context.......fabulous!:D I'm waitng to hear what was racist about the post I made.....Anybody?

Read my post carefully. I said that line is racist. As said above weather you were saying it from your mouth or acting as if that is what others would say, does not change the fact that the quoted text is a raciest remark.

And is not called for.

You could have worded it in a much better and left that part out

SimonM

03-10-2009, 02:01 PM

Accusations of racism, counter accusations of racism, racist references, etc. aside could somebody please address my reasonable and rational critique of the article we are presently discussing? I know it's not as much fun as mudslinging (goodness knows I've done my fair share in the past) but I do think I raised a valid point and I would rather it's not lost in a 10 page flame-war.

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 02:04 PM

This is you using the words "feed those stupid Ns from Africa." these were words you chose thinking you could put them in others mouths with the whole I can see you saying this routine.

But you said this and no one else on this thread did.

that speaks volumes as to what you hold in your heart.

To each his own interpetation I guess.:D However if you want to play the "lets take words out of context game" then we could really twist a lot of posts around here.

However If you want to talk about "hate" I can show posts on this board where you openly invite people you don't like to come and fight you. The difference being is that I don't have to twist the meaning on your posts to derive that.

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 02:09 PM

"Punk RC car drivers pushing their boundaries "

Do you remember this post? Since when are all radio controlled car drivers punks? You wrote this...You tell me?

uki

03-10-2009, 02:13 PM

Always great to speak with a real person.so i wonder if drake is his REAL name... aren't people who do not post their REAL names cowards? :rolleyes:

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 02:15 PM

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 02:16 PM

"Punk RC car drivers pushing their boundaries "

Do you remember this post? Since when are all radio controlled car drivers punks? You wrote this...You tell me?

you talking to me?

I never said that. You need to use the quote function and show who actually wrote that. Keeps people honest.

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 02:18 PM

so i wonder if drake is his REAL name... aren't people who do not post their REAL names cowards? :rolleyes:

no I said people who hide and do not reveal themselves to anyone are cowards.

Drake called me and we introduced ourselves.

Thats cool.

Hiding and raging on about things yet not stepping up to the big boys table is cowardly.

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 02:19 PM

so i wonder if drake is his REAL name... aren't people who do not post their REAL names cowards? :rolleyes:

Oh yeah, anyone who doesn't supply their name, address, phone #, SS # and birthdate are nothing but cowards and mouthboxers!:D

1bad65

03-10-2009, 02:28 PM

Fact is, BD is very VERY confused, and to make it worse, refuses to accept this. He justifies racist terms, which HOPEFULLY gets the guy banned, supports proven cheats and frauds, and is ridiculously fanatical in a cause which seems to shift every 5 seconds.

I've had him on ignore for several days now, but from what I've seen from people quoting him, he's gone from bad to worse.

So true.

And more and more people are seeing it. He's his own worst enemy.

1bad65

03-10-2009, 02:32 PM

that you cannot even man up about what you wrote is sad, lame and pathetic.

Dude, he was shown WORD FOR WORD how his poseur hero plagiarized someone else's work. And he still didn't get it.

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 02:32 PM

I do not hate anyone.

I dislike cowards who talk out their behinds and do not show themselves to be real. People like yourself who post all this drivel.

Why waste the bandwith?

Why even post half the poop that they do?

So they can titter like little girls when real teachers react to the obvious lies and poop being touted as truth and reality.

I invite all to come test my hand as a method of progress. I do this here and on all the other forums I am on. I have had some people come visit, and it has been educational for all.

That you see it as something else points to your low level of martial arts training and knowledge. This really is your own fault and nothing to do with your inability to understand how old school martial arts act.

I am not out to hurt people. Though if you try and hurt me, I being the mirror will act in a similar manner.

I have p e a c o c k feathers on my Sun Toi and show them proudly. I answer all and reject none.

I am a martial artist and not a martial talkist like so many these days who would rather talk then train or cross hands to gain better physical understanding of their arts and themselves.

For someone who accuses others of being a "Mouthboxer" you sure seem to do a lot of running at the mouth yourself.:eek:

By the way you can believe alll this happy crappy about yourself that you please. You think you are some sort of wise sage from ancient times who is living in the modern world who is so much above everyone else. I have news for you: You're no better than the drunks down at the local bar who like to fight on the weekends. Martial "Arts"....You don't know the meaning of the word.

Finally, coward seems to be your favorite word. Personally, and I don't think I'm alone here, I think it's a cowardly act to challenge someone to fight you who is thousands of miles away. Of course I'm just another "Mouthboxer" so what do I know!:p

1bad65

03-10-2009, 02:37 PM

Better grab your wallet, and your ankles:

Pelosi: Congress Needs to 'Keep the Door Open' to Second Stimulus Package

"House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Tuesday that Congress needs to "keep the door open" to a second stimulus package -- raising the question of how much the government could eventually spend on top of the $787 billion already allocated to rescue the country from dire economic straits.

The Obama administration has not ruled out a second stimulus package -- should the current bill prove insufficient -- but it has not indicated a second bill is currently in the making either."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/10/pelosi-congress-needs-door-open-second-stimulus-package/

How much is enough?

Drake

03-10-2009, 02:41 PM

so i wonder if drake is his REAL name... aren't people who do not post their REAL names cowards? :rolleyes:

I did post my real name this board already. You can go dig it up.

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 02:51 PM

So, by your 'logic', anyone who quotes any Nazi is a Nazi. Right? So there sure must be a ton of historians, professors, students, etc who are Nazis. :rolleyes:

Well Bad the truth is:

You quoted a article that suggested that UK should be treated better than some small African country. You agreed with the article and posted it to back up your own opinion.

****************

Using your Nazi analogy:

Using a NeoNazi article to back up an argument that the holocaust never happened is a lot different than using the same article as a frame of reference to argue against it.

*****************

The problem wasn't where the article came from but the fact that you agreed with the disgusting information that it contained.

SimonM

03-10-2009, 02:52 PM

Care to respond 1bad65? My post was mainly aimed at you since it was a critique of an article you posted.

1bad65

03-10-2009, 02:55 PM

You quoted a article that suggested that UK should be treated better than some small African country. You agreed with the article and posted it to back up your own opinion.

The problem wasn't where the article came from but the fact that you agreed with the disgusting information that it contained.

Where did I say I agreed with them?

1bad65

03-10-2009, 02:56 PM

Care to respond 1bad65? My post was mainly aimed at you since it was a critique of an article you posted.

Not to be a jerk, but can you repeat the question(s) please?

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 03:01 PM

Where did I say I agreed with them?

So you're in the habits of posting articles that you don't agree with without mentioning the fact that you totally disagree with the article?

Your reaction to that was:

"What a way to improve relations" with a little rolling eyes icon at the end........

I'll take that as an endorsement.

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 03:14 PM

pedophilia is ok

Wow! I just found this quote by Bad. This is his actually quote and the words that he used!!!!!!! Simply amazing!

Baqualin

03-10-2009, 03:20 PM

Wow! I just found this quote by Bad. This is his actually quote and the words that he used!!!!!!! Simply amazing!

Wow BD's turned into another Lunghushan & MKRii

I thought you were more intelligence than these childest games you play:confused:

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 03:27 PM

Wow BD's turned into another Lunghushan & MKRii

I thought you were more intelligence than these childest games you play:confused:

Oh, I'm all for playing fair and trying to understand somebody's point of view through their post. However it seems that on this thread we have gotten to a point of taking a few words out of context and using them as we please.....so you know what they say...something about "what's good for the goose".......:D

SimonM

03-10-2009, 03:33 PM

Not to be a jerk, but can you repeat the question(s) please?

Sure, you can find it right here. As I said before it was more of a critique than a question per-say. There were plenty of rhetorical questions but I don't expect you to answer those as much as a response to my assertation that the article was of generally poor journalistic quality, based on innuendo and veiled references to annonymous "sources". I also reiterated my enquiry vis media literacy education in USA secondary schools. (https://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=922137&postcount=1106)

1bad65

03-10-2009, 03:48 PM

So you're in the habits of posting articles that you don't agree with without mentioning the fact that you totally disagree with the article?

Your reaction to that was:

"What a way to improve relations" with a little rolling eyes icon at the end........

I'll take that as an endorsement.

Then you're wrong. And you're an idiot.

The crux of the article was how the Brits felt slighted, thus I sourced an article saying so. You're the one who turned it into a discussion on racism.

FYI, that paper is the biggest in the UK. I'm fairly certain they are quoted alot.

1bad65

03-10-2009, 03:51 PM

Wow! I just found this quote by Bad. This is his actually quote and the words that he used!!!!!!! Simply amazing!

So now you don't even use the full sentence your opponents post?

Please stop acting like a child. Even though your friends like to still pretend to be Indians, try acting like an adult.

1bad65

03-10-2009, 03:57 PM

Simon, that link did not work. I'll answer what I think you want me to reply to.

I don't think The Daily Telegraph would just make up quotes and attribute them to non-existant, unnamed officials. They are the largest paper in the UK!

And the Obama Administration has not denied it. Keep in mind, Obama's Press Secretary has mentioned Rush Limbaugh, Jim Cramer, and Rick Santelli by name in daily press briefings in order to refute them. It's a stretch to assume he would just give the largest paper in the UK a pass if they just make up quotes.

1bad65

03-10-2009, 03:59 PM

And you can hear Obama, in his own words, stammer on to the press when the TelePrompter is off.

"Uh, you know, I -- I -- I have more than enough to do, uh, without having to worry about the financial system. Uh, and the fact that, uh, we've had to take these extraordinary measures, uh, and intervene, uh, is, uhh, not an indication of my ideological preferences --"

Audio clip:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/us/politics/08callback.html?_r=2&ref=politics

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 04:08 PM

Bush/Cheney going to the hoose gow? I doubt it but one never knows. If the public demand becomes so great it might force Obama to name a special prosecutor to look into the matter. I think the key here is Karl Rove. If they can get him to tell the truth then it's all over.

Personally I would give Rove immunity and say "Talk and tell the truth or go to jail". If Rove knew his own ass was on the line he would give up Bush and Cheney in a heartbeat.

I might also work some sort of deal with Scooter Libby; "You tell us the truth and we'll talk about that presidential pardon.

To be honest if they were found guilty in this country I would not put them in jail. I would send them to Geneva for an international war crimes trial.

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 04:10 PM

For someone who accuses others of being a "Mouthboxer" you sure seem to do a lot of running at the mouth yourself.:eek:

By the way you can believe alll this happy crappy about yourself that you please. You think you are some sort of wise sage from ancient times who is living in the modern world who is so much above everyone else. I have news for you: You're no better than the drunks down at the local bar who like to fight on the weekends. Martial "Arts"....You don't know the meaning of the word.

Actually I understand more of martial arts than you. You do nothing but talk, and make all sorts of noise, but back up nothing.

Finally, coward seems to be your favorite word. Personally, and I don't think I'm alone here, I think it's a cowardly act to challenge someone to fight you who is thousands of miles away. Of course I'm just another "Mouthboxer" so what do I know!:p

I am not challenging anyone. I invite all to back up their claims to having any sort of skill. Again you seem to ignore the fact that martial arts are about fighting. Fighting arts, and not debating or talking arts.

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 04:56 PM

I want to take this opportunity to think Bill O'Reilly for his comments on his show:

"Now, Ayers is not as flat-out crazy as Churchill, but he does sympathize with him."

However I'm sure Bill would disagree with that. He would say he IS as crazy as Ward!

and

"Now, I know you're thinking who gives a fig what these guys(Ward and Bill) think, and that is a valid point. Outside of radical precincts like Boulder, these two are simply clowns on parade. But in Washington, there are powerful people trying to rewrite history on the terror war as well."

It's nice to hear Boulder getting some positive recognition for a change! Our next big event is the "4/20 Smoke Out". On April 20th at least 10,000 people will gather in Boulder for peace, good times, radical thought and...oh yeah to smoke weed!:D O'Reilly welcomed if he would like to come!

Drake

03-10-2009, 05:33 PM

Even on ignore, I am still exposed to BD's lunacy.

BD, has it occurred to you yet that you are basically attacking everyone here, and everyone here is telling you that something is dreadfully wrong with you?

And the 1Bad pedophilia quote was very unprofessional and very VERY childish. Grow up.

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 05:51 PM

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 06:00 PM

He is a toasty brain cell killing hippie chick.

Didn't you forget "Unprofessional" "Childish" and the fact there is something dreadfully wrong with me!:D

Us "toasty brain killing hippie chick" would have it any other way. By the way I bet you wold die of a heart attack if you knew what probably half of your students do after class!:eek:

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 06:26 PM

Update on the Churchill trail:

So far so good: David Lane(Ward's Attorney) stacked all of the academic works of Ward in one pile. They reach a height of almost 8 feet!!!! Personally I would find it simply amazing that anyone could write that much material and only have 6-8 problems. The point being is I could find the same problems in anyone's work if given several years to comb through it and look for such things.

Also his lawyer did what I would have done: He made a comparison to John Scopes. That's exactly what I would have done on the first day!

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 06:49 PM

BD, has it occurred to you yet that you are basically attacking everyone here, and everyone here is telling you that something is dreadfully wrong with you?

Well to be honest, here's what I see:

Most people are here to debate their point of views and have a good time. Probably the only ones that really get angry about that are you and Dale.

However you're the only person here on this board to seriously suggest that me (or any other poster for that matter) has some sort of deep seated mental problems because of the views that I express.

No matter though, I've heard it all before, Ho-mo commie, N lover, commie racist....you name it, I've been called it all before!:D

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 07:46 PM

Well to be honest, here's what I see:

Most people are here to debate their point of views and have a good time. Probably the only ones that really get angry about that are you and Dale.

However you're the only person here on this board to seriously suggest that me (or any other poster for that matter) has some sort of deep seated mental problems because of the views that I express.

No matter though, I've heard it all before, Ho-mo commie, N lover, commie racist....you name it, I've been called it all before!:D

you are just another no name drugged up fool who makes other Americans look bad.

Good luck with life, you are going to need it.

Dale Dugas

03-10-2009, 07:50 PM

Didn't you forget "Unprofessional" "Childish" and the fact there is something dreadfully wrong with me!:D

Us "toasty brain killing hippie chick" would have it any other way. By the way I bet you wold die of a heart attack if you knew what probably half of your students do after class!:eek:

To be honest you are going to be the one having the heart attack with your arteries full of plaque and other tars and resins from smoking drugs.

You really need a wakeup call son.

Good luck with life, you are going to need it.

SimonM

03-10-2009, 07:57 PM

And the Obama Administration has not denied it. Keep in mind, Obama's Press Secretary has mentioned Rush Limbaugh, Jim Cramer, and Rick Santelli by name in daily press briefings in order to refute them. It's a stretch to assume he would just give the largest paper in the UK a pass if they just make up quotes.

Why would they bother though? How many Americans actually read the Daily Telegraph?

You guys, as a country, don't even read your own newspapers, let alone ones from the UK.

And another thing...

"They didn't refute it so..." is a straw dog.

It's the same argument that somebody made a while ago when they said "Prince Charles didn't sue Icke so Icke must be onto something" and then again with "Clinton didn't sue the people who accused him of murder, he must have done it". It's completely illogical - guilt by lack of response?

What ever happened to turn the other cheek?

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 08:09 PM

To be honest you are going to be the one having the heart attack with your arteries full of plaque and other tars and resins from smoking drugs.

You really need a wakeup call son.

Good luck with life, you are going to need it.

No need to actually smoke anymore. There is a thing now called a vaporizer. I know you don't know what that is. I would advise asking some of your students...if any are willing to talk to you.

Man you are so blind......If only you knew about some of your students.

By the way "son"...I'm guessing I'm older than you! Life been pretty good so far! It could always get better but what the hell!:D

Hardwork108

03-10-2009, 08:55 PM

Sheesh!

I am away a day and I come back and see that as always Dale Dugas is trying to make new friends.

By the way Dale if I were you I would close that "always" open door of yours, once in a while. I mean don't you worry about catching a cold with all that draft coming in (and going out)?:p

Drake

03-10-2009, 08:56 PM

Does KFM have a policy about banning racist drug addicts?

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 09:17 PM

By the way Dale if I were you I would close that "always" open door of yours, once in a while. I mean don't you worry about catching a cold with all that draft coming in (and going out)?:p

Wouldn't he just beat the living hell out of any cold germs that came through that door?

I'm just wondering if Dale ever leaves. I'm mean the door is always open. Could anybody just walk in at any time? Also do you have to knock or maybe even bow before you walk through the door? Also do they prop the door open with a rock or something?:confused:

Siu Lum Fighter

03-10-2009, 10:45 PM

BoulderDawg

03-10-2009, 11:15 PM

LOL!! It's funny how everyone keeps thinkin' your a racist Dawg. I mean..once again they're taking the word and you saying it completely out of context! That's how FOX operates. It's a blender of slander and words that so-called liberals said out of context.

While the so-called liberal media can have as many hard, solid facts as they want, and they'll still be slandered and everything they say will be taken out of context! I feel like I'm going around in circles here:rolleyes:

Knee jerk neo reaction I've heard a hundred times before. Usually when they can't think of any argument to counter the point you have made. Believe it or not, I've actually been called a N loving racist....I'm still trying to figure that one out!:p

I have good company. Every liberal I know of has been accused of racism......usually when they are trying to make the good fight for civil rights!

1bad65

03-11-2009, 03:29 AM

However you're the only person here on this board to seriously suggest that me (or any other poster for that matter) has some sort of deep seated mental problems because of the views that I express.

Add me to that list.

No matter though, I've heard it all before, Ho-mo commie, N lover, commie racist....you name it, I've been called it all before!:D

You just can't help it, can you?

1bad65

03-11-2009, 03:30 AM

Simon, you're really embarrassing yourself. You're above that.

sanjuro_ronin

03-11-2009, 05:36 AM

BoulderDawg, you are certainly entitiled to express yourself in which ever way you see fit and to use whatever terms and words you deem appropriate.
That said, the fact that this forum doesn't allow you to spell out certain words should kind of give you a hint that perhaps those words are viewed as "unacceptable" and "inappropriate".
I am sure you can think of other words to use.

Baqualin

03-11-2009, 06:07 AM

SimonM

03-11-2009, 08:33 AM

Simon, you're really embarrassing yourself. You're above that.

Above what precisely?

Pointing out erroneous logic or questioning the relevance of a British newspaper to the American electorate?

1bad65

03-11-2009, 09:05 AM

1bad65

03-11-2009, 09:10 AM

Well the communist Chinese have figured out how to jump start private sectors:

Chinese car sales up by a quarter

"The month's sales totalled 827,000 vehicles, a 25% increase on the same month last year and a 12% increase on the number sold in January.

China slashed sales tax on small-engined passenger cars to try and boost sales of fuel efficient vehicles."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7937345.stm

Sadly, our socialist President still hasn't figured this concept out. Less see how well his tax INCREASES do. :rolleyes:

sanjuro_ronin

03-11-2009, 09:37 AM

GLW

03-11-2009, 09:45 AM

So, by that logic, slashing a sales tax or any other tax on the folks who are :

(1) barely making it (and not doing any spending they don't have to)
(2) in fear of losing their job (and so not doing any spending they don't have to)
(3) unemployed with new layoffs (and so not doing any spending they don't have to)
(4) a business owner whose banks are insolvent and receiving TARP funds but NOT making lines of credit available (and so not doing any spending they don't have to)

Are all going to rush out and buy something due to this tax break.

Or, if there are more tax cuts, all of these people are going to spend the money they don't have on new things instead of paying for essentials or paying down their debt...

The tax cut mantra is old...and did not work...try something new...

1bad65

03-11-2009, 09:54 AM

The average Chinese makes alot less than the average American. And it worked over there. It would work over here, actually exponentially better.

It's not rocket science; when prices go down, people buy more.

As for tax cuts not working, go learn history. It works EVERY time. Raising them fails, just look at Carter and Hoover.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 09:57 AM

Chinese is as communist as as the hills on granny's chest and twice as dusty.
I am more surprised that anyone still refers to them as such.

Because they are.

They still practice collectivism. Most industries are still nationalized. The government mandates family size. There are still political prisoners. And there are not free elections.

Hell, the leader of their country is a member of the Communist Party. After all, you can't hold any office if you are not a member of that party.

Drake

03-11-2009, 10:04 AM

Because they are.

They still practice collectivism. Most industries are still nationalized. The government mandates family size. There are still political prisoners. And there are not free elections.

Hell, the leader of their country is a member of the Communist Party. After all, you can't hold any office if you are not a member of that party.

Communist, yes. Socialist? Not so much...

The argument I heard many moons ago was that rigid political control was necessary to guide the nation. The USA doesn't have the same demographiucs as China, nor does it have the same social system, so I'll refrain from making any judgment calls on them. But if the Chinese are by and large ok with the way they are living, then who am I to say anything?

SimonM

03-11-2009, 10:05 AM

Simon, it's real simple. You either believe the largest paper in the UK is on the level, or you believe they just make things/quotes up.

I hardly think the largest UK paper is as stupid and dishonest as the poseur Ward Churchill. ;)

They quoted an annonymous source telling them something that he/she had heard from a second annonymous source.

It's bad journalism.

The only named individuals in the article were Gordon Brown and Barack Obama and yet despite half of the article being quotes not a single quote was attributed to either of the named individuals.

It's bad journalism.

Communist, yes. Socialist? Not so much...

The argument I heard many moons ago was that rigid political control was necessary to guide the nation. The USA doesn't have the same demographiucs as China, nor does it have the same social system, so I'll refrain from making any judgment calls on them. But if the Chinese are by and large ok with the way they are living, then who am I to say anything?

China is ready for democratic elections. It has been since the 1980s.

And China is NOT communist NOR is it socialist.

China is a CAPITALIST TOTALITARIAN state.

BoulderDawg

03-11-2009, 10:08 AM

The average Chinese makes alot less than the average American. And it worked over there. It would work over here, actually exponentially better.

Since the Chinese have it so good over there why don't you move. I'm sure you would love China.

Drake

03-11-2009, 10:08 AM

Dude, they are SO communist.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 10:09 AM

But if the Chinese are by and large ok with the way they are living, then who am I to say anything?

But you gotta consider that the ones who were not ok with the way things are are either in political prisons or have been executed.

Remember, the government over there controls the press, so you're not going to see any criticism of the government.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 10:10 AM

Since the Chinese have it so good over there why don't you move. I'm sure you would love China.

You're an idiot. Read my other posts.

People like me end up in front of firing squads over there.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 10:12 AM

BoulderDawg

03-11-2009, 10:13 AM

Drake

03-11-2009, 10:16 AM

But you gotta consider that the ones who were not ok with the way things are are either in political prisons or have been executed.

Remember, the government over there controls the press, so you're not going to see any criticism of the government.

I believe they'll eventually become democratic, but that'll be when they are ready and on their terms.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 10:16 AM

Not only do you not understand economics but you also do not understand protocol. Other than extreme rare occasions it would not be proper for the White House to talk about foreign press.

But giving a visiting Prime Minister a few DVDs on his first official visit is good protocol???

SimonM

03-11-2009, 10:16 AM

Because they are.

They still practice collectivism. Most industries are still nationalized.

No they don't.
No they aren't.

Trust me on this one. I've been inside Chinese factories and spoken to workers and owners of said industries.

Hell I have inlaws who used to work in some of the worst of the factories.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 10:17 AM

I believe they'll eventually become democratic, but that'll be when they are ready and on their terms.

I hope so. No one should have to live under a totalitarian government.

SimonM

03-11-2009, 10:18 AM

Simon, it may well be bad journalism. That's not the issue. The question is are you saying they just made up the quote?

Being unprofessional is one thing, completely making up quotes and printing them as fact is quite another.

Actually I think that the quotes are, for the most part, irrelevant.

As for that particular quote I questioned the serious issue of who actually said that.

The way it was attributed the person who said it could have just as easily been Hillary Clinton, John McCain, or the whitehouse janitor.

BoulderDawg

03-11-2009, 10:19 AM

You're an idiot. Read my other posts.

People like me end up in front of firing squads over there.

In China you would be a citizen leader.

In China people like you are praised by the government because they suck up to the politicians to live a better life. If you were a Chinese citizens you would fall right in line with what the government tells you.....just like you do here.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 10:21 AM

No they don't.
No they aren't.

Trust me on this one. I've been inside Chinese factories and spoken to workers and owners of said industries.

LMAO.

When a society has secret police, political prisons, and firing squads, citizens don't generally complain about the government. Especially to strangers. Not to be a jerk, but I thought that was common sense.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 10:24 AM

In China you would be a citizen leader.

In China people like you are praised by the government because they suck up to the politicians to live a better life. If you were a Chinese citizens you would fall right in line with what the government tells you.....just like you do here.

Are you retarded?!?!

Yeah, I'm really on board with the Obama Administration. Have you missed me calling him a liar about 857 times? Are you really this incapable of reading comprehension?

You're very close to being put on ignore again.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 10:25 AM

Actually I think that the quotes are, for the most part, irrelevant.

Again, that is not my question. My question is; do you think they just made up the quote?

Drake

03-11-2009, 10:25 AM

I hope so. No one should have to live under a totalitarian government.

It's like the USSR. It's a waiting game. And if the communists are good to the people, and ease them into this, they could even still hold power by elections.

SimonM

03-11-2009, 10:26 AM

Actually people like 1bad65 in China post angry rhetoric on blogs and are generally ignored.

And returning to what I've been going on about:

The real views of many in Obama administration were laid bare by a State Department official involved in planning the Brown visit

"The real views of many" who is many?
"in Obama administration" first: bad grammar, second: still doesn't clarify whose views are being discussed.
"were laid bare by a State Department official" who?
"involved in planning the Brown visit" still doesn't answer who. Clearly this individual is either important (and thus possibly eligible to express views of the administration) in which case it's poor reporting to exclude their name or they are a 'source' that the Telegraph wishes to protect in which case they are likely spewing the precise rhetoric the Telegraph wants it's readers to believe.

I don't dispute that somebody somewhere may have said this prior to the Telegraph printing it. However there are serious issues over the representation of this unnamed state department official.

You can find a brief deconstruction of the errors with the article here (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=922137&postcount=1106) and I triple checked the link to make sure it works properly 1bad. Please keep in mind this is a brief treatment. I could go into much greater detail about the problems in the rhetoric used and touch on the message the Telegraph wishes to convey. It's a little bit obfuscated but clear to anybody with a shred of media awareness and even a passing understanding of contemporary European politics.

I could go into detail but since you have so far refused to even address my comments on this gloss I won't. You just won't read it anyway.

Oh, and Drake, if you think there is any simmiarity between China now and the USSR in 1989 you are sorely mistaken.

BoulderDawg

03-11-2009, 10:26 AM

But giving a visiting Prime Minister a few DVDs on his first official visit is good protocol???

Well, I want to know where you are going with this. You've left at least two dozen posts on it. Most liberals could really care less about state dinners, fancy gifts and kissing ass. However all that seems really important to the Neos.

However, if you think somehow the American public is outraged about this I would once again suggest you print up a bunch of flyersand pass them out on a street corner somewhere.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 10:31 AM

Actually people like 1bad65 in China post angry rhetoric on blogs and are generally ignored.

I'm guessing there aren't too many posts, as the government over there controls what sites the citizens can access. And you can face prison or death for logging onto 'unauthorized' sites.

As to the PM's visit, do we now agree a State Department official said it, and that paper commented on it. I'm not saying it's official policy or anything, but I do believe 100% it was said.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 10:33 AM

However, if you think somehow the American public is outraged about this....

I never said that.

It does appear that certain Britons aren't too happy about it though. ;)

SimonM

03-11-2009, 10:36 AM

LMAO.

When a society has secret police, political prisons, and firing squads, citizens don't generally complain about the government. Especially to strangers. Not to be a jerk, but I thought that was common sense.

Actually I heard plenty of complaining.

However there was no evidence of widespread state-owned industry or of collectivism.

When I was there the bank of China, one of the largest state owned businesses in the country, was being put up for trading on the stock market.

The state still controls the oil industry... but a lot of the mines now are privately owned. So resource management is now a piecemeal collection of state and private players.

And COLLECTIVISM?!?!? It's not 1970 in China any more. The collectives are gone.

SimonM

03-11-2009, 10:37 AM

I'm guessing there aren't too many posts, as the government over there controls what sites the citizens can access. And you can face prison or death for logging onto 'unauthorized' sites.

You can keep on guessing. I've actuall read some.

I challenge you to find ONE verifiable case of somebody being executed for "logging onto unauthorized sites'.

People in China get executed for: Murder, rape, kidnapping, terrorism, sometimes drug dealing and in some very rare cases massive corruption while holding a government office.

BoulderDawg

03-11-2009, 11:05 AM

You can keep on guessing. I've actuall read some.

I challenge you to find ONE verifiable case of somebody being executed for "logging onto unauthorized sites'.

People in China get executed for: Murder, rape, kidnapping, terrorism, sometimes drug dealing and in some very rare cases massive corruption while holding a government office.

Bad's an expert on China. You didn't know? He's never been there but he knows all about it.

Anyway it's my understanding they block certain sites from the internet there. Of course they can't block them all so I guess they would prefer you don't visit certain sites.

I find the Neo's view (such as the one Bad has) as disgusting. They talk about those dirty commies, so on and so forth but have no problem in exploiting workers in the country. They support buying goods from a country that has no legal protection for their workers; A country that allows workers to be paid next to nothing and work 14 hour days.

In fact Bad and his ilk admire China because they know how to treat their workers.

SimonM

03-11-2009, 11:07 AM

Bad's an expert on China. You didn't know? He's never been there but he knows all about it.

Anyway it's my understanding they block certain sites from the internet there. Of course they can't block them all so I guess they would prefer you don't visit certain sites.

They do.

But the blocks are easily circumnavigated. And are regularly.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 12:43 PM

I find the Neo's view (such as the one Bad has) as disgusting. They talk about those dirty commies, so on and so forth but have no problem in exploiting workers in the country.

To me, taking about 40% of someone's earnings is exploitation. I'm against that, fyi.

In fact Bad and his ilk admire China because they know how to treat their workers.

Never tell someone how or what they think. It makes you look stupid, or in your case, more stupid than you already are.

How the Chinese government treats its workers (and citizens) is an abomination.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 12:44 PM

They do.

But the blocks are easily circumnavigated. And are regularly.

But can we agree that no government should censor what the people can read?

sanjuro_ronin

03-11-2009, 12:54 PM

1bad65

03-11-2009, 12:56 PM

I challenge you to find ONE verifiable case of somebody being executed for "logging onto unauthorized sites'.

Amnesty International says that two have "died in custody":

China: Internet users at risk of arbitrary detention, torture and even execution

"In report launched today ("People's Republic of China: State Control of the Internet in China" - ASA 17/007/2002), Amnesty International records the cases of at least 33 people who have been detained or imprisoned for offences related to their use of the Internet. They range from political activists and writers to members of unofficial organizations, including the Falun Gong spiritual movement.

Two of those detained for Internet-related offences have died in custody, apparently as a result of torture or ill-treatment at the hands of the police. Both are members of the Falun Gong spiritual movement, which was banned as a "heretical organization" in July 1999.

In extreme cases, individuals who publish information on the Internet which is considered to be a "state secret" could even be sentenced to death."

http://www.hrea.org/lists/huridocs-tech/markup/msg00893.html

1bad65

03-11-2009, 12:57 PM

Actually, sometimes you can't get them to shut up about it.

And I'd bet if you returned in a few months to speak to them again, they would have 'disappeared'.

SimonM

03-11-2009, 01:00 PM

But can we agree that no government should censor what the people can read?

Actually I support the idea that all rights should be limited by what is reasonable. For instance I have no problem with censoring hate literature, kiddie porn, etc.

That said I will allow that the blocking of websites by the Chinese government may not meet the reasonability test as I would frame it.

Doesn't change the fact that people are not killed for surfing the web in China blocks or no.

Two of those detained for Internet-related offences have died in custody, apparently as a result of torture or ill-treatment at the hands of the police. Both are members of the Falun Gong spiritual movement, which was banned as a "heretical organization" in July 1999.

The falun gong are filthy stinking liars who exploit western credulity. I don't have an ounce of sympathy for their invented plight.

And even if there are FG members detained for "internet related crimes" it wouldn't be for reading a webpage.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 01:05 PM

Doesn't change the fact that people are not killed for surfing the web in China blocks or no.

And even if there are FG members detained for "internet related crimes" it wouldn't be for reading a webpage.

Amnesty International does not agree with you.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 01:06 PM

The falun gong are filthy stinking liars who exploit western credulity. I don't have an ounce of sympathy for their invented plight.

Please tell me you aren't saying that means the Chinese government should be free to just lock them up and torture them? :eek:

sanjuro_ronin

03-11-2009, 01:07 PM

And I'd bet if you returned in a few months to speak to them again, they would have 'disappeared'.

One hopes ;)

I am still in communication with a couple of the guys I met over there when I was there for the Olympics, still as big mouth as ever, LOL !
Things have changed quite a bit, though much more is still needed.

sanjuro_ronin

03-11-2009, 01:07 PM

Please tell me you aren't saying that means the Chinese government should be free to just lock them up and torture them? :eek:

Only in Gitmo !
;)

SimonM

03-11-2009, 01:20 PM

Please tell me you aren't saying that means the Chinese government should be free to just lock them up and torture them? :eek:

Torture no.

I will never support torture.

However the Falun Gong regularly invents attrocities that never happened then gets that MOONIE newspaper the epoch times to print them as if they were facts. They stage protests in the USA claiming that the attrocities are true and NGOs like Amnesty, sadly, don't bother independently investigation.

Amnesty isn't in the business of sceptically investigating allegations of abuse / torture / etc.

A lot of Falun Gong members have, however, broken the law of the land and with what I know of the connection between creepy cults and major rebellions I can understand why the CCP, which is - after all - a totalitarian ruling party would be paranoid of a wierd creepy cult with an actively anti-state agenda.

BoulderDawg

03-11-2009, 02:36 PM

Two of those detained for Internet-related offences have died in custody, apparently as a result of torture or ill-treatment at the hands of the police. Both are members of the Falun Gong spiritual movement, which was banned as a "heretical organization" in July 1999.

You should learn how to read. The question was give an example of execution for using the internet. I see no evidence these people were executed. In fact the above shows they weren't executed at all. Also, taken from the above, "Abusing the internet" was not their primary crime.

Maybe you should not try to make A = B.

BoulderDawg

03-11-2009, 02:41 PM

Torture no.

I will never support torture.

However the Falun Gong regularly invents attrocities that never happened then gets that MOONIE newspaper the epoch times to print them as if they were facts. They stage protests in the USA claiming that the attrocities are true and NGOs like Amnesty, sadly, don't bother independently investigation.

Amnesty isn't in the business of sceptically investigating allegations of abuse / torture / etc.

A lot of Falun Gong members have, however, broken the law of the land and with what I know of the connection between creepy cults and major rebellions I can understand why the CCP, which is - after all - a totalitarian ruling party would be paranoid of a wierd creepy cult with an actively anti-state agenda.

Sounds like you have the party line down. Now I can understand why you want to put a cap on Ward's freedom of speech.

Personally, I know little about this group. I do know they should have the freedom of speech to express their views no matter what they may be.

uki

03-11-2009, 02:41 PM

i was going to post this in the other thread of mine, but i thought it needed to be a stand alone for all to see... apparently in this video from msnbc, obama does not intend to leave iraq, only re-define the role of troops that will be stationed there... knock yourself out with this one - take it as you will, but it is definitely worth the watch... i personally believe they intend to ship out as many american soldiers as they can in order to keep them off american soil when martial law is declared to justify the use of foreign troops to enforce it... american troops would be hesitant and reluctant to fire upon american citizens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TovrzDZlqIM

change is truly in the air... :rolleyes:

SimonM

03-11-2009, 02:53 PM

I don't care what Ward Churchill - private citizen - says. Hell, I don't disagree with all of what he says.

I am opposed to a plagiarist and a shamless committer of academic fraud having tenure at a university.

This has nothing in the slightest to do with my perspective on creepy cults like Falun Gong and the Moonies... opinions that have more to do with my relatively hard-lined atheism than with my political stance.

Even relatively harmelss (on the micro-level) religions like Islam and Christianity are, in my eyes, highly suspect.

Religions that are rather pointedly not harmless, particularly ones led by a charismatic con-man like li hongzhi or sun myung moon, particularly cults led by charismatic con-men that include racist dogma in their "teachings", particularly cults that are actively working to undermine a secular state (even though it is one that is distasteful at times) and most particularly cults that do all of the above and then lie to exploit popular discontent with said secular state....

Those I have a problem with.

And the falun gong is a harmful cult (they actively teach their adherents that medicine is bad except for falun gong approved qigong) led by a charismatic con-man who teaches racist teachings, which has actively engaged in undermining a secular state and which lies to exploit popular discontent with said state.

And I usually keep stumph on these psychos but 1bad65 brought them up!

As for freedom of speech: I believe that all rights should be proscribed by the limits of reasonability. This is because a point of ethical philosophy I adhere to is that there is no such thing as absolute freedom possible within a social group without the limitation of the freedom of other members of the social group. Therefore I believe that limiting freedom in such a manner as to maintain the most equitable balance of freedom is good and right.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 02:58 PM

I am opposed to a plagiarist and a shamless committer of academic fraud having tenure at a university.

This is the part that BD just cannot fathom.

For God's sake, the poseur gave several different stories on his made-up ancestry. They can't ALL be true, yet BD won't admit the guy is a liar. :rolleyes:

Luk Hop

03-11-2009, 03:08 PM

change is truly in the air... :rolleyes:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/ - This video has been on http://www.barackobama.com/index.php for a long time.

People only hear what they want to hear.

Change?

BoulderDawg

03-11-2009, 03:12 PM

I am opposed to a plagiarist and a shamless committer of academic fraud having tenure at a university.

Yeah well that's what this trial is all about. And what if Ward wins? What do you plan to do? Boycott the University!:D

Anyway I sure didn't see any footnotes on your statements about Falun Gong (Whatever it is). You made some serious charges against that group. You should back that up.

SimonM

03-11-2009, 03:22 PM

BoulderDawg

03-11-2009, 03:26 PM

The truth is, Ward has written dozens and dozens of books and papers. As David Lane showed in court that stack up to about 8 feet high. Yet with two years where they combed through every sentence the man ever wrote they come up with 6-8 highly debatable cases of "Academic misrepresentation".

The questions I'm sure the jury will ask:

Why would Ward writes dozens and dozens of publications with thousands of footnotes but yet conspire to leave out these half dozen or so?

If everyone in the academic world was subjected to having their work scrutinized in such a manner would not they find similar "Misrepresentations"?

Also, just exactly how many tentured proffessors in the last (let say) 50 years have been fired for the things they are accusing Ward of?

This case is looking stronger everyday. I still believe it will have to go to appeal before we win it but who knows the jury is young so maybe they'll approach it with an open mind.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 03:36 PM

Anyway I sure didn't see any footnotes on your statements about Falun Gong (Whatever it is). You made some serious charges against that group. You should back that up.

That's the pot calling the kettle black.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 03:37 PM

Bolderdawg please don't make me repeat everything I say to you twice. It makes me irritable and I am trying REALLY hard to be polite and constructive in my discussion with everyone.

If you only have to repeat it twice, you got lucky. ;)

BoulderDawg

03-11-2009, 03:39 PM

As I said previously:

Comments on an internet forum are not academic writings. They are conversation. Usually rather trite conversation. As such academic standards don't apply.

I derive no benefit from my words on the forum and so intellectual property issues are non-issues.

In other words I don't need footnotes here.

However Ward Churchill does when he writes an essay.

As would I if I were writing an essay.

Bolderdawg please don't make me repeat everything I say to you twice. It makes me irritable and I am trying REALLY hard to be polite and constructive in my discussion with everyone.

YOu know I really wonder about you being a leftist. You start by supporting the firing of a professor for exercising his right to free speech. Then you openly support a government(China) that is one of the world's largest offended of human rights violations and certainly NOT a defender of free speech.

Those certainly are not the views of any of my friends. That's part of the philosophy that we fight against.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 03:40 PM

1bad65

03-11-2009, 03:43 PM

YOu know I really wonder about you being a leftist. You start by supporting the firing of a professor for exercising his right to free speech.

Dude, take off your tinfoil hat so maybe this will penetrate:

It is NOT a right to be able to lie, plagiarize, and steal and not face repecussions at your job.

I'm an American. If I bad-mouth my boss, I cannot be charged with a criminal offense. However, my employer is well within their rights to fire me.

Do you get it yet? :rolleyes:

SimonM

03-11-2009, 03:44 PM

I am a socialist. That does not necessarily imply that just because my political philosophy and yours are on the left that we will agree on all issues. A lot of anarchists claim to be on the left and I have almost no common ground beyond opposition to war with anarchists.

1bad65

03-11-2009, 03:46 PM

uki

03-11-2009, 03:49 PM

a funnier take on the whole situation. :p

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=220241&title=Mess-O'Potamia---The-Iraq-War-Is-Over

i would like to say i feel for those who bought obamas lies, but i really don't. :D

BoulderDawg

03-11-2009, 03:53 PM

And it's not "highly debatable". Drake posted the writings in question. It was almost word-for-word plagiarism.

Add to that, he LIED about his ancestry to get tenure reserved for those with the ACTUAL ancestry he LIED about.

I never saw any of that. What I saw was a 120 plus page report that 90% was later discredited and will not be used in this trail. Also, that include the disputed charge that he copied and pasted on this thread.

If you want to debate the points that will be made in this trail then find out what they are and will go over them one at a time. Otherwise continued with the "I hate Ward" routine!:D

By the way what are you going to say if Ward wins this case?

SimonM

03-11-2009, 03:55 PM

And that is not an action that an advocate for affirmative action (which I am) can support in good faith. It provides fodder for those who would do away with it.

Bolderdawg I am not a knee-jerk sort of person. I deliberate on my opinions and base them on the virtues of equality, compassion and reason. That is why I'm a socialist in the first place, it is not because of an ideological attachment to a specific camp.

In the case of Ward Churchill I don't see a person who has operated in a manner that could be characterized as "good" or "right" on the basis of equality due to his abuse of affirmative action to achieve a position that would have rightfully gone to an aboriginal person.

As such I counter that any leftist who is clear-thinking would challenge Churchill on his actions regardless of his words.

BoulderDawg

03-11-2009, 04:04 PM

And that is not an action that an advocate for affirmative action (which I am) can support in good faith. It provides fodder for those who would do away with it.

Well you can call yourself what ever you like. But with your views, especially your support of the Chinese government and their human rights record, you would not really be welcomed in the groups I associate with.

Kansuke

03-11-2009, 04:06 PM

LOL @ at group YOU would associate with (or would associate with YOU).

SimonM

03-11-2009, 04:11 PM

Well you can call yourself what ever you like. But with your views, especially your support of the Chinese government and their human rights record, you would not really be welcomed in the groups I associate with.

Actually I don't support human rights abuses anywhere.

However I don't think China's actual record to be that much worse than that of the USA.

And I don't support liars who draw attention away from real problems with their lies.

If you read my posts that I wrote today about China you will find that when there are documented cases of abuse (such as the drugging of protesters and the placement of them in psychiatric institutions) I am strongly against them.

Then again I don't see things in black and white all the time.

Lucas

03-11-2009, 04:16 PM

i mostly see things in colors of red. bloody crimson red!

:mad::mad:

:p;)

BoulderDawg

03-11-2009, 04:35 PM

Actually I don't support human rights abuses anywhere.

However I don't think China's actual record to be that much worse than that of the USA.

And I don't support liars who draw attention away from real problems with their lies.

If you read my posts that I wrote today about China you will find that when there are documented cases of abuse (such as the drugging of protesters and the placement of them in psychiatric institutions) I am strongly against them.

Then again I don't see things in black and white all the time.

Sure you see things in black and white. As a matter of fact if I a member of the Chinese government I would have someone come on here and leave the exact same message that you have left.

You come on this board:

"China is communist in name only"

Exactly was most Americans want to hear.

"XYZ group that is at odds with the governement are a bunch of violent crazy nuts"

Justifying the human rights violations.

"China's human right's violations are no worse than America's"

"I am against human rights violations"

of course, who is. This is just the kind of propaganga they want Americans to hear. A hard line message would be soundly rebuffed by everyone but a easy going "Human rights violations are bad but China's a great place, no worse than America" argument is exactly what they want to put forward.

You're the perfect spokeman!

bawang

03-11-2009, 04:44 PM

lets pull out right now and let mu a ha din swarm into country and plan vengeance very good idea

Luk Hop

03-11-2009, 04:47 PM

i would like to say i feel for those who bought obamas lies, but i really don't. :D

I don't. Lets hope that people are beginning to wake up: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29493093/. One can only hope.

........Asked if the United States was winning in Afghanistan, a war he effectively adopted as his own last month by ordering an additional 17,000 troops sent there, Mr. Obama replied flatly, “No.” http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/us/politics/08obama.html :confused: Obama's lost war. When will the media begin the nightly new body count? I don't have a tv and haven't owned one since '95, but I am sure that the news isn't reporting this as they did ad naseum during the prior administration.

Russian advice: More troops won't help in Afghanistan. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/63581.html

The U.S. will have troops in Iraq and probably Afghanistan for years to come. Change we can believe in.

Is there anyone in Obama's administration that is a student of History? Apparently not. :(

Trickle up poverty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmFpCjH20Cc
I am probably going to catch hell for this one.:D

1bad65

03-11-2009, 05:03 PM

LOL @ at group YOU would associate with (or would associate with YOU).

Apparently groups that like to pretend to be Indians. :D

1bad65

03-11-2009, 05:08 PM

Lets see that poseur's plagiarism again, courtesy of Drake:

SPECIFIC EXAMPLES from the report.

The original pamphlet (“The Water Plot”), which is unpaginated
In Northwestern Ontario a water diversion scheme far larger than the James Bay Project has been planned and awaits only the right climate of public opinion to be put into operation.
Should Canada’s waters be diverted southward to supply the growing demand for clean, fresh water in the United States? According to those who propose such schemes, Canada would earn a great deal of foreign exchange thereby and would benefit greatly from the employment created by the construction of the required dams, dykes, canals, tunnels and pumping stations. So far, so good; but once these works are built, what then? This pamphlet attempts to answer this question as far as possible in terms of specific events that have already happened and to demonstrate that, not only are the benefits of such schemes vastly over-rated, but what little real benefit could be derived from them will be greatly outweighed by the costs of their adverse consequences.
Dam the Dams Campaign and the Institute for Natural Progress, “The Water
Plot: Hydrological Rape in Northern Canada,” in Critical Issues in Native North America, Vol. I, ed. Ward Churchill (Copenhagen: International Work
Group on Indigenous Affairs, Doc. 68, 1989), p. 137
In northern Canada, a water diversion scheme far larger than the James Bay Project has been planned and awaits only the right climate of public opinion to be put in operation. Should Canada’s hydroelectricity and clean, fresh waters be diverted southward to supply the growing demand of the United States? According to those who propose such ideas, Canada would earn a great deal of foreign exchange thereby, and would benefit considerably from the employment created by construction of the required dams, ****s, canals, tunnels and pumping stations. So far, so good, but what happens once these works are built? This paper attempts to answer the question as far as possible in terms of
210 One footnote is here omitted from each of the later works except for the Z Magazine piece, which had none. None of the notes refers to the Dam the Dams pamphlet.
85
specific events which have already occurred, and to demonstrate that what little benefit might actually accrue to the inhabitants of the Canadian north will be vastly outweighed by the costs of the adverse human and environmental consequences.
Ward Churchill, “The Water Plot,” Z Magazine, April 1993, p. 88
In northern Canada, a water diversion scheme far larger than the combined James Bay Projects (see Winona LaDuke, Z June 1990) has been planned and awaits the right climate of public opinion to be put in operation. Should Canada’s hydroelectricity and clean, fresh waters be diverted southward to supply the growing demand of the United States? According to those who propose such ideas, Canada would earn a great deal of foreign exchange, and would benefit considerably from the employment created by construction of the required dams, ****s, canals, tunnels, and pumping stations. So far, so good, but what happens once these works are built?
Ward Churchill, “The Water Plot: Hydrological Rape in Northern Canada,” in his Struggle for the Land: Indigenous Resistance to Genocide, Ecocide, and Expropriation in Contemporary North America (Monroe, ME: Common Courage Press, 1993), p. 329
In northern Canada, a water diversion scheme far larger than anything yet undertaken in the United States has been planned, piloted, and awaits only the right climate of public opinion to become a reality. By diverting Canada’s hydroelectricity and clean, fresh waters to support the growing demand of the lower 48 U.S. states, the plan’s proponents argue, Canada would earn a great deal of foreign exchange, and profit considerably from the employment created by construction of the required dams, ****s, canals, tunnels and pumping stations. But while proponents say little about the future once these works are built, the marginal benefits that might actually accrue to Canadians will be vastly outweighed by the costs of adverse economic, human and environmental consequences.
Ward Churchill, “The Water Plot: Hydrological Rape in Northern Canada,” in his Struggle for the Land: Indigenous Resistance to Genocide, Ecocide, and Expropriation in Contemporary North America (revd. edit., San Francisco: City Lights Books, 2002), p. 292
In northern Canada, a water diversion scheme far larger than anything yet undertaken in the United States has been planned, piloted and awaits only the right climate of public opinion. The idea is to divert Canada’s hydroelectricity and clean, fresh waters to support the growing demand of the lower forty-eight U.S. states. According to proponents of the plan, Canada would earn a great deal of foreign exchange, and would profit considerably from the employment created by construction of the required dams, ****s, canals, tunnels and pumping stations. Little is said about what will happen once these works are built. As will be seen, what little benefit might actually accrue to the citizens of Canada will be
86
vastly outweighed by the costs of adverse economic, human and environmental consequences.
There are many similar examples. There are also many passages in the later works that do not appear in the pamphlet, and are apparently original—indeed, by its last appearance in 2002, the essay had grown to several times the size of the pamphlet. Nevertheless, the repeated occasions of near-verbatim repetition constitute the clearest and most undeniable evidence of plagiarism.

Look how it's almost word-for-word!

BoulderDawg

03-11-2009, 05:12 PM

Hey Bad, tell us again when "The Water Plot" is going to be used in the trial?:D

BoulderDawg

03-11-2009, 05:26 PM

I was told months ago that "Water Plot" was weak (to say the least) and would not used in this trial. I would be interested in finding out where you got your information that it is going to be used.

I'm sure David Lane would also be interested in where you got that info.:D

Drake

03-11-2009, 05:26 PM

I take back what I said. DNA samples wouldn't even be enough. Anyway, Churchill is kicked out, and is now pleading to get back in. Yeah, great approach... "Hey, look at ALL I wrote, so much, and I only committed academic fraud a few times!". What's the ratio? One plagiarized work per 6? Last I checked, academic fraud is a one-strike crime. Doesn't matter, though, because that's just the tip of the iceberg on what he was F&*^ING FIRED over...

1bad65

03-11-2009, 05:35 PM

I take back what I said. DNA samples wouldn't even be enough.

True, true.

And when the poseur loses his appeal, he can blame the jury. Or the judge. Or his attorney. Anyone but the plagiarist poseur himself.

Drake

03-11-2009, 06:00 PM

Seriously...who in their right mind actually believed we'd have a full withdrawl? I knew that wasn't possible the first time I heard it. The Iraqi gov't is trying to make itself appear that it doesn't want us there, yet they still do. Dealing with tribes and religious sects is a very complicated matter, and a lot of times their approach may seem contradictory.

I just don't think the Pres should have made such an outlandish promise.

BoulderDawg

03-11-2009, 06:03 PM

Neo Dating Service

Hey for any of you Neos out there looking for a woman you now have several choices.

As I mentioned before John McCain daughter Meegan is available......She's hot and ready for all of you "Progressive conservatives"!:D

Also, Bristol Palin...the queen of family values herself is now available....There ya go guys....not only can you have a girl with lots, lots, lots of experience but also one that fully believes in good old family values with a ready made family to boot.....life doesn't get any better!:p

Drake

03-11-2009, 06:07 PM

True, true.

And when the poseur loses his appeal, he can blame the jury. Or the judge. Or his attorney. Anyone but the plagiarist poseur himself.

BD doesn't get it. It's not about what he said about 9/11 (as screwed up in the head as he is) or his political affiliation. He REALLY DID PLAGIARIZE. The university has to protect their professors, no matter how liberal they may be, because they have to promote freedom of speech (I wonder who lets THAT happen?).

You hear a LOT of crazy anti-gov't/anti-establishment rhetoric coming from colleges. Isn't grounds to fire them. Academic fraud is.

SimonM

03-12-2009, 08:33 AM

Sure you see things in black and white. As a matter of fact if I a member of the Chinese government I would have someone come on here and leave the exact same message that you have left.

You come on this board:

"China is communist in name only"

Exactly was most Americans want to hear.

Coming from me this is a criticism, not a complement.

"XYZ group that is at odds with the governement are a bunch of violent crazy nuts"

In the case of Falun Gong it's true.

"China's human right's violations are no worse than America's"

"I am against human rights violations"

of course, who is. This is just the kind of propaganga they want Americans to hear. A hard line message would be soundly rebuffed by everyone but a easy going "Human rights violations are bad but China's a great place, no worse than America" argument is exactly what they want to put forward.

You're the perfect spokeman!

For whom pray tell?

I suppose next you will try to imply that my open and public support for real socialist Hugo Chavez is somehow part of a great conservative ruse.

Tell me did you bother reading the article by Slavoj Zizek (another real marxist) that I posted on China a while back? The one that I said summed up my thoughts on the specific topic nearly perfectly? No. You just assumed because I'm not a Ward Churchill fanboy I must be "the enemy". Ayah.