OT: does obama bring change?

[BoulderDawg]

BD, one more parrotting of the term "Neo blog" and your back on ignore too. I thought you had grown up.

I believe ALMOST everyone brings something to a discussion. But when you refuse to source your arguments, then attack your opponents sources with THE EXACT SAME CHARGE over and over and over... it really becomes obvious your are dealing with someone who is simply a trained parrot.


What Neo Blog did you get that off of? :D

[1bad65]

What Neo Blog did you get that off of? :D

No skin off my nose. I'll just put you back on ignore.

I look at it this way, neither of us will convince the others they are wrong. But now those who are undecided can see which side is rational and backs up their arguments, and which side just name calls and repeats the same talking-point phrases over and over again.

[sanjuro_ronin]

No skin off my nose.

I look at it this way, neither of us will convince the others they are wrong.

Best post of the thread !
Wish more of us would realize that and just have a nice civilized discussion of viewpoints.

[BoulderDawg]

Interesting Politicail story:

GOP Sen Jim Bunning gave a news conference where he said Justice Bader-Ginzberg would be dead within a year.......:D

Although true not many people in their right mind would make a public statement like this. Bunning displays all the characteristics of advanced alzhemeirs. And guess what? The man is getting ready to run for reelection with the full blessing of the GOP!:p

[BoulderDawg]

I look at it this way, neither of us will convince the others they are wrong. But now those who are undecided can see which side is rational and backs up their arguments, and which side just name calls and repeats the same talking-point phrases over and over again.


Me? I don't chose sides and I have no interest in convincing anybody the validity of my argument.

[SharkyT]

Best post of the thread !
Wish more of us would realize that and just have a nice civilized discussion of viewpoints.

To be honest. I am just having fun. I forget some people are sensitive about politics. I am not. I am at the airport waiting for my flight. Knocking down drinks. I wish no harm and ill will toward any of these guys here. I think it time for some coffee and binaca

[1bad65]

Just for fun I thought I'd put up a "Best of" compilation of BD. ;)
Keep in mind, none of these quotes are listed more than once.

In any case I don't know about the rest of the people here but I'm not really interested in "Fill in the blank" radical neo blog source.

My guess is that another Neo blog has told you to do this.

By the way what Neo blog did you pull 5.4 trillion off of?

I think the important thing to remember here is in that long laundry list of projects (Pulled off of someone's Neo blog)......

Finally, I'm not interested in a link to an extremist Neo blog.

When I call him on it and ask which neo blog he made his assumptions from....

Maybe through a Neo blog?

What Neo Blog did you get that off of?

[bawang]

i liked beorge gush he was a very strong man like stalin i support his war of terror
i also like very much his chocolate wife condelessa rice
but my favorite hero is colon powell he should have benn predisent

[1bad65]

Well, he is bringing "Change":

Dow and S&P at '97 lows

Big losses send the two major gauges to levels not seen in nearly 12 years.

"The Dow and S&P 500 tumbled to levels not seen in nearly 12 years Monday, as investors continue to worry that the government's efforts to slow the recession won't be sufficient.

The Dow Jones industrial average (INDU) lost 250 points, or 3.4%, ending at the lowest point since May 7, 1997.

The S&P 500 (SPX) index lost 26 points, or 3.5%, ending at the lowest point since April 11, 1997."

http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/23/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm

1997?!?! Hey, that's before Bush was even in office! What a rocket start Obama is off to. :eek:

[1bad65]

I love this part of the story:

"The skepticism is back," Kiddoo said. "I think we need to hear some optimistic talk from our leaders and soon."

Good luck with that!

[uki]

*munches some granola and sips some tea*

this is more entertaining than the commericial television i don't have. :)

[Luk Hop]

just remember alot of judges and other elected officials are also pedophiles...

that magical freemasonry, esoteric knowledge number.

i am not a registered voter, i never have voted, and i never will... i don't believe in politics, i don't care about politics(meaning whose who) and i sure as heck don't lose sleep over what the dinks in washington are doing... but i am a voice for the people who have not yet found their own voice... i like to say and do things that others only wish they could say or do. power to the people.

i pay my taxes, i hardly ever file for a return, and the federal gov can kiss my white arse. :)

I also have never registered to vote. Never voted and don't plan on it.

mmmmmmmmmm granola.

[uki]

I also have never registered to vote. Never voted and don't plan on it.then you are another non-person who has no right to say anything about anything in this country. :p

mmmmmmmmmm granola.with goji berries.

[Luk Hop]

then you are another non-person who has no right to say anything about anything in this country. :p



I saw that. Made me chuckle. This country is becoming a country in which we are basically non-persons. Rights??? What rights?

[Drake]

Well, 1Bad, you can't blame Obama for the current state of affairs. This stuff started a LONG time ago. We're just finally starting to hit the "fun" part of the ride...

[BoulderDawg]

I also have never registered to vote. Never voted and don't plan on it.

I have registed (Wish I could un-register) but I haven't voted in over a decade. I won't vote until there is someone worth voting for.

[Exadon]

Well, he is bringing "Change":

Dow and S&P at '97 lows

Big losses send the two major gauges to levels not seen in nearly 12 years.
url]

1997?!?! Hey, that's before Bush was even in office! What a rocket start Obama is off to. :eek:

hahah you cant be seriously saying it is Obama's fault for the current state of the Dow.

you cant fix the countries economic problems in a few months. We both know if McCain was in office the current economic status would be just the same if not worse.

[uki]

Well, 1Bad, you can't blame Obama for the current state of affairs. This stuff started a LONG time ago. We're just finally starting to hit the "fun" part of the ride...ain't that the truth... even though obama is not the direct blame, his agenda has been the same one for thousands of years, just now it is being implemented on a global scale.

I saw that. Made me chuckle.it's nice to have a good laugh.

This country is becoming a country in which we are basically non-persons.we're just a number.
Rights??? What rights?the word you are looking for here is privilege... there not rights anymore, just privileges. :D


I have registed (Wish I could un-register) but I haven't voted in over a decade. I won't vote until there is someone worth voting for.oh my goodness... another non-person... how dare you criticize the policies of this country. i wonder if this mentality is contagious? if it is, the administration might treat it like a harmful disease and eradicate those who are infected. :)

[Luk Hop]

I have registed (Wish I could un-register) but I haven't voted in over a decade. I won't vote until there is someone worth voting for.

You non-person you.

[Luk Hop]

the word you are looking for here is privilege... there not rights anymore, just privileges. :D




You're right. Only privileges.

[Kansuke]

I have registed (Wish I could un-register) but I haven't voted in over a decade. I won't vote until there is someone worth voting for.



Great, another big mouth nobody. As disappointed as I am, I suppose it's for the best that numbskulls like you **** away your rights and responsibilities. Just more empty, meaningless background noise from the irrelevant.

[uki]

Great, another big mouth nobody.yeah really... quit posting already.

As disappointed as I am, I suppose it's for the best that numbskulls like you **** away your rights and responsibilities.nothing has been taken away from me.
Just more empty, meaningless background noise from the irrelevant.do you have anything useful to add to any thread? anything at all that could be remotely attributed as being intelligent? so far every post i have seen you type amounts to a few simple words in some form of a sentence structure, but usually by the end of it there is only immature name calling... so nothing you really say strikes any kind of relevant chord about anything... nothing, nada, ning... my 4 year old daughter can hold a better conversation than you have shown so far.

its people like you that are the problem with the world. you only believe what you are told, do what you are told, and think what you are told... a brainwashed automaton with no conscience of his own. whatever is the law you obey, whatever is defined as being illegal is illegal... and to prove it, you are in denial of this fact because you dish out judgement on people like me claiming we are the cattle, when it is truly people like you who are the livestock, branded and owned. you should take a long hard look in the mirror and get your priorities in order... instead of belittling people, you should be helping them, instead of criticizing, you should be educating, but it is clear that you lack the ability for anything but adding negativity on this forum.

[Kansuke]

yeah really... quit posting already.



You're big on quitting, aren't you?

[uki]

You're big on quitting, aren't you?more interesting perspectives from our friend kansuke... well done... i have been further stimulated by your mental prowess. :)

[Kansuke]

its people like you that are the problem with the world.



Too bad people like you don't have **** to say about it. Too bad people like you have no choice but to do what you are **** well told to do. Too **** bad.

[Exadon]

haha come on guys, we are all kung fu friends :O

I think this thread is done

[bawang]

obama is way cooler than boerge gush and he gets all the ladies
and hes black
BLACK PWOER
LONG LIVE MARTIN LUTHER KING AND HIS SON RODNEY KING

[BoulderDawg]

obama is way cooler than boerge gush and he gets all the ladies
and hes black

He's a complicated man and no one understands him but the congress

[sanjuro_ronin]

He's a complicated man and no one understands him but the congress

He's a bad Mother...

[uki]

Too bad people like you don't have **** to say about it. Too bad people like you have no choice but to do what you are **** well told to do. Too **** bad.hey bud... anger can kill you, check out this reuters article on a study done. just looking out for ya kiddo... :p

CHICAGO, Feb 23 (Reuters) - Anger and other strong emotions can trigger potentially deadly heart rhythms in certain vulnerable people, U.S. researchers said on Monday.

Previous studies have shown that earthquakes, war or even the loss of a World Cup Soccer match can increase rates of death from sudden cardiac arrest, in which the heart stops circulating blood.

"It's definitely been shown in all different ways that when you put a whole population under a stressor that sudden death will increase," said Dr. Rachel Lampert of Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut, whose study appears in the Journal of the American College of Cardiology.

"Our study starts to look at how does this really affect the electrical system of the heart," Lampert said.

full article... http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN23265425
He's a complicated man and no one understands him but the congressi wouldn't go that far... obama is more transparent that a plane of glass.
haha come on guys, we are all kung fu friends.welcome to the world of mature and disciplined martial arts of the master/sensei/sifu/student... please keep your arguments and responses as childish as possible so as to not upset the emotionally immature minds.

I think this thread is doneare you kidding? obama hasn't even been in office for a month and a half yet. :D

[David Jamieson]

You know what would be nice? If all the kungfu hillbillies dug themselves into their great brown horde shelters and just hid out from the world for the rest of their lives.

There they could happily vent their anger at the surface dwellers while they clean their firearms and read their bibles and teach their kids how to ufc pitbulls.

That would be so cool.

[uki]

You know what would be nice?that you stop posting lame attempts on making humour? :p

If all the kungfu hillbillies dug themselves into their great brown horde shelters and just hid out from the world for the rest of their lives.why that would be no fun at all... the world needs a changing and it won't happen by hiding out like so dumb, fearful schmuck.

There they could happily vent their anger at the surface dwellers while they clean their firearms and read their bibles and teach their kids how to ufc pitbulls.it's much more fun posting on a public forum board... and it's not nice to pick on UFC knuckleheads.

That would be so cool.followers need leaders dave... saddle up pardner. :)

hey looky folks... obama is a bigger hero than jesus or MLK... http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1440284,w-obama-jesus-christ-hero-harris-poll021909.article

wow. i am absolutely shocked... next he'll claim to save our souls from the fire and brimstone that he is tossing us into. :D

[Exadon]

are you kidding? obama hasn't even been in office for a month and a half yet. :D

yessss, that does not change the fact that the quality of this thread is poo poo :)

[1bad65]

Well, 1Bad, you can't blame Obama for the current state of affairs. This stuff started a LONG time ago. We're just finally starting to hit the "fun" part of the ride...

Two things:

One, the party he is in caused the mess. People like Barney Frank who gave Fannie and Freddie a free pass (while he was sleeping with a CEO from one of those companies), and Jimmy Carter who implemented the CRA.

Two, the DOW went into freefall the day after he was elected, and every fiscal policy he unveils or passes sends it tumbling faster. You do know that the DOW fell further the day after Obama was elected than it had EVER done the day after any other President was elected, right?

[Exadon]

Two things:

One, the party he is in caused the mess. People like Barney Frank who gave Fannie and Freddie a free pass (while he was sleeping with a CEO from one of those companies), and Jimmy Carter who implemented the CRA.


To blame only one party in this hell of a mess we are in...is to hold a blind eye to all of the problems your own party has created.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Two things:

One, the party he is in caused the mess. People like Barney Frank who gave Fannie and Freddie a free pass (while he was sleeping with a CEO from one of those companies), and Jimmy Carter who implemented the CRA.

Two, the DOW went into freefall the day after he was elected, and every fiscal policy he unveils or passes sends it tumbling faster. You do know that the DOW fell further the day after Obama was elected than it had EVER done the day after any other President was elected, right?

To echo EXadon, there is more then enough blame to go around.
I think we are all pass that issue.
As for the DOW, maybe they wanted more "no strings bailouts" for Wall Street, or maybe they were reacting to his very poor choice of words: " Things will get worse before they get better".
Either way, Wall street sucks the bag and since they put "all" their eggs into the "fuel" markets and that went down like a 2dollar crack *****, they can ***** all they want, F- them.

[1bad65]

Do I need to re-post the clip of the Republicans in Congress trying to get Fannie and Freddie to open their books before the housing crisis happened and being called racists by the Democrats?

Yes, during the 2000s the Republican majorities raised spending, I admit that. But that had NOTHING to do with the housing bubble that set off this current recession.

A question; If the Democrats (and their supporters) are blaming the Republicans over the last 8 years for causing this with spending increases, how is Obama raising spending much higher than they ever did going to fix this mess?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Do I need to re-post the clip of the Republicans in Congress trying to get Fannie and Freddie to open their books before the housing crisis happened and being called racists by the Democrats?

Yes, during the 2000s the Republican majorities raised spending, I admit that. But that had NOTHING to do with the housing bubble that set off this current recession.

A question; If the Democrats (and their supporters) are blaming the Republicans over the last 8 years for causing this with spending increases, how is Obama raising spending much higher than they ever did going to fix this mess?

I don't think that anyone is arguing that the Demos have their share of the blame.
Though I must admit I see lots of pointing out what Obama is doing is wrong and won't help and may make it worse, but no suggestions on what WILL WORK.

[1bad65]

Isn't Obama supposed to speak tonight?

2-to-1 says he tells us how bad it is and how it will get worse before it gets better. And he will call for more spending, more bailouts, and more government programs. He MAY call for tax increases, but he may have to wait on that until this spending spree inevitably fails to fix anything.

Just look at the news today. House Democrats want another $410 billion! Will it ever stop?

"The legislation, which includes an increase of roughly 8 percent over spending in the last fiscal year, is expected to clear the House later in the week."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/House-Democrats-propose-410B-apf-14450221.html

Are we in the Twilight Zone?!?! While average Americans cut back, save, and worry, the government wants to spend 8% more then last year!?!?!

[Exadon]

, but no suggestions on what WILL WORK.

Yup, it is much more easy to say "Demos are the ones to blame!" same with the other way around.

If John McCain was in office right now , you would see Demos posting "Look at the DOW, this is the lowest it has been!" and Reps Posting "He has been in office only a few months!"

I hate Party Vrs Party crap, Stop passing the blame,

[1bad65]

Though I must admit I see lots of pointing out what Obama is doing is wrong and won't help and may make it worse, but no suggestions on what WILL WORK.

I've said it over and over. What will work, is what HAS worked. Massive tax cuts. Consumers will have more money to spend, businesses will have more money to expand and create more jobs. It works EVERY TIME it's been tried, while government spending has NEVER pulled any economy out of a recession.

[1bad65]

Look at Obama's own words. He wants to give everyone a $500 rebate and couples $1000. He says that will help the economy. Why not give them $5000? Or $10,000? Why not a PERMANENT tax cut?

Those of you that work, would you rather your employer give you a 5% salary increase, or a one time bonus of $500?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I've said it over and over. What will work, is what HAS worked. Massive tax cuts. Consumers will have more money to spend, businesses will have more money to expand and create more jobs. It works EVERY TIME it's been tried, while government spending has NEVER pulled any economy out of a recession.

I tend to agree with you, BUT on the same token, tax cuts with an increase in NEEDED infrastructure work, would probably work even better, I recall McCain voicing that.
Of course, in places were revenue is at an all time low, not sure how tax cuts will help the government, if they are already running a massive dept just to stay afloat.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Look at Obama's own words. He wants to give everyone a $500 rebate and couples $1000. He says that will help the economy. Why not give them $5000? Or $10,000? Why not a PERMANENT tax cut?

Those of you that work, would you rather your employer give you a 5% salary increase, or a one time bonus of $500?

No Argument there.
Sad part is that the government is SO dependant on Income tax as their main source of income that whenever people start to cut back the government only feels it too late after the fact, and then its hard to fix.
Government tax should be based on sales revenue and such, not income tax.

[Drake]

For real, folks... AMERICANS are to blame for this current mess. From people taking out loans without bothering to educate themselves about what they're getting into. From unions getting employees such lucrative retirements that the company can't afford to pay them without going under. Loaners knowingly lending to risky clients. Corrupt businessmen and corrupt politicians. People using credit cards like they were free money. How about CEOs trying so hard to make themselves richer, and in the end going to jail whilst sinking their company? How about wealthy people investing in things they **** well know generate too high of a profit margin, and then cry foul when the scam falls apart?

Even on a global scale, you have insane corruption in China, with businesses being accused of poisoning their customers due to lax standards. You have the socialist Europe hitting their eventual slowdown due to a sluggish trade. The middle east is a mess, with governments being unable to rein in their extremists. Africa is basically killing itself.

EVERYBODY is to blame here.

[sanjuro_ronin]

For real, folks... AMERICANS are to blame for this current mess. From people taking out loans without bothering to educate themselves about what they're getting into. From unions getting employees such lucrative retirements that the company can't afford to pay them without going under. Loaners knowingly lending to risky clients. Corrupt businessmen and corrupt politicians. People using credit cards like they were free money. How about CEOs trying so hard to make themselves richer, and in the end going to jail whilst sinking their company? How about wealthy people investing in things they **** well know generate too high of a profit margin, and then cry foul when the scam falls apart?

Even on a global scale, you have insane corruption in China, with businesses being accused of poisoning their customers due to lax standards. You have the socialist Europe hitting their eventual slowdown due to a sluggish trade. The middle east is a mess, with governments being unable to rein in their extremists. Africa is basically killing itself.

EVERYBODY is to blame here.

We are the world.

[David Jamieson]

Deregulation began with Reagan in the US and Mulroney in Canada.

at the time, it seemed to work, what we see now is the ultimate result of that legislation.

blame is not important, not working against each other in order to solution the problem is important.

who gives a crap what was done, what is important is what there is now and how do we deal with it.

I think that the US can learn from Canada's example in regards to regulation of the Banking sector. If you haven't noticed, we are the ONLY G7 country that has not had a bank failure and we are the ONLY G7 country that has not had to provide a bailout for any of our chartered banks or our national bank.

recognize and learn and get your head out of the weeds of he said she said because if you stay their, you will drown in your own irrelevance as the rest fo us move forward with a solution.

whining about your president will do NOTHING. Blaming the inequities of teh past president will DO NOTHING, pointing out this minutia or that from presidencies been and gone is IRRELEVANT.

peace out and don't be a loser.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Bah !
I say this to you all !!

[BoulderDawg]

Bad and others are yellings: "Massive tax cuts, Massive taxs cuts".......Of course I'm no where near the expert Bad is on the economy but I thought that Bush gave us tax cuts.......and look at how well that worked.

Anyway, when all this mess started last year I predicted the market would bottom out at 7K.....looks like I might be wrong on this, It might even go to 6K......However I was a lot closer than most of the so-called financial experts who were advising their high end clients "Hang tight.......9K will be the floor". I was advising the guy I worked for to dump his JP Morgan portfolio......Last time I seen this guy his investment was worth 5 million. It use to be 6 mill.......I would love to hear what it is right now.:D

[BoulderDawg]

Deregulation began with Reagan in the US and Mulroney in Canada.

at the time, it seemed to work, what we see now is the ultimate result of that legislation.

There was deregulation long before Reagan. However he was the one that decided to make it into an art form......we are now paying for that. It took over 20 years but the chickens are finally coming come to roost.

One would have thought the conservatives would have learned something from the S&L crisis...but they didn't.:rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

tax cuts are a load of crap anyway. no one gets them.

If you aren't getting a tax cut on your paycheque or on your property payments, then you are NOT getting a tax cut.

giving corporations tax cuts doesn't ever equate to more money in the working mans' pocket.

there have been no drops in income tax and no drops in property tax.

tax cuts = lies and more lies with a dash of dam lies.

[Kansuke]

... the world needs a changing and it won't happen by hiding out like so dumb, fearful schmuck.





So of course you hide out like a dumb, fearful schmuck. Brilliant.

[1bad65]

I tend to agree with you, BUT on the same token, tax cuts with an increase in NEEDED infrastructure work, would probably work even better, I recall McCain voicing that.

You do realize the Obama 'stimulus' package spent a whopping 4% on infrastructure, right?

[1bad65]

tax cuts are a load of crap anyway. no one gets them.

Income tax cuts, which I believe are needed, are felt by EVERYONE paying income tax.

giving corporations tax cuts doesn't ever equate to more money in the working mans' pocket.

It results in more jobs, first of all. And once there are more jobs, employees have more options. So that results in employers raising wages to retain employess.

there have been no drops in income tax and no drops in property tax.

Bush cut the income tax, just not enough. Property taxes are done by counties, not the Federal government.

tax cuts = lies and more lies with a dash of dam lies.

No, they equal success. Reagan and JFK proved it.

[David Jamieson]

No, they equal success. Reagan and JFK proved it.

Reagan's trickle down economics and deregulation of the banking system in the US has led to where we are now. Epic fail if you ask me.

JFK has what to do with any of this?

[Drake]

Tax cuts would be felt if some of these "revolutionaries" actually paid their taxes to begin with...

[uki]

Tax cuts would be felt if some of these "revolutionaries" actually paid their taxes to begin with...you mean like most of those who represent the people in the government? the government should lead the people by example. :D

[David Jamieson]

you mean like most of those who represent the people in the government? the government should lead the people by example. :D

the government should be recognized AS the people.

Government and people should not be separate.
Government should be a mere extension in the administration of the will of the people.

by taking the stance of us vs them, you give up the reality that you must govern yourself first with all the integrity you expect to get from those you assign to do it.

[Hardwork108]

Don't blame me, I voted for Ron Paul.

I wish everyone had voted for him.;)

[David Jamieson]

I wish everyone had voted for him.;)

Why? He's an isolationist. No good would've have come with that guy at the helm.
He'd be a great governor, but a crappy crappy president.

the president of the USA has a lot of impact on the world.
When you put that seal on, you are putting on the free world robes man.
You are top dog in the free world and it's waaaaayyyy more than just the USA at that point.

don't believe it? then wtf are you doing spending tax money on foreign wars? why are you funding the IMF? why bother trading with other countries? and so on. :)

[uki]

the government should be recognized AS the people.the government is not the people.

Government and people should not be separate.but they are.

Government should be a mere extension in the administration of the will of the people.yet again... it is not.

by taking the stance of us vs them, you give up the reality that you must govern yourself first with all the integrity you expect to get from those you assign to do it.herein lies the difference between you and me... i don't need anyone else to govern myself or my actions, as i am quite capable of living and making decisions on my own. if integrity and morals were taught in society, there would be no need of a government...

[David Jamieson]

the government is not the people.
but they are.
yet again... it is not.
herein lies the difference between you and me... i don't need anyone else to govern myself or my actions, as i am quite capable of living and making decisions on my own. if integrity and morals were taught in society, there would be no need of a government...

The Governemnt IS the people. The people elect the government and give them power to take care of the daily business of the nation within which they reside. Unless of course you live in a dictatorship or as a slave, in which case you would be correct in your separation of the two.

As far as I know, you're American and therefor you elect your representatives and ergo, that person is sent to the seat of government to represent your will and the will of others just like you. In the end, you need to be represented because it is unlikely that you will build the roads and take out the trash and ensure that there are power stations etc etc without the collective group of people putting in for these things.

Integrity and Morals aren't taught in society? Really? What is being taught in churches and schools then? What are you teaching your kids?

You need to consider that you live in a democratic nation. You would not have the freedoms that you do if you did not live where you live. You work so hard against something that it would be a lot easier to work with in order to make the change you desire.

You are a lot like Sisyphus in that respect, except that additionally, you fail to understand just how lucky you are and just how easy you actually have it being where you are in the country you are in.

Meditate upon the executed who were killed for what they thought. :)

[1bad65]

Reagan's trickle down economics and deregulation of the banking system in the US has led to where we are now. Epic fail if you ask me.

JFK has what to do with any of this?

You're completely clueless aren't you? You guys blame Reagan for EVERYTHING.

JFK massively cut taxes to get out of a recession. He was successful in that.

Again, you can't blame the bankers only. At most, they are only half the problem. They may have offered retarded loans, but it took stupid people signing up for them to make the loans happen. You blame deregulation, but you can't regulate stupidity. You just have to let the banks who made those loans fail, and let the people who signed up for martgages they can't pay lose their homes. If we bail out everyone involved, they aren't going to learn a darn thing from their mistakes are they?

[1bad65]

Tax cuts would be felt if some of these "revolutionaries" actually paid their taxes to begin with...

If there aren't any tax cheats, how would Obama fill his Cabinet? ;)

[1bad65]

Meditate upon the executed who were killed for what they thought. :)

They were killed by the millions in 'workers paradises' like Cuba, USSR, North Korea, and China.

[Drake]

I pay my own salary with my taxes. How messed up is that??

[David Jamieson]

You're completely clueless aren't you? You guys blame Reagan for EVERYTHING.

JFK massively cut taxes to get out of a recession. He was successful in that.

Again, you can't blame the bankers only. At most, they are only half the problem. They may have offered retarded loans, but it took stupid people signing up for them to make the loans happen. You blame deregulation, but you can't regulate stupidity. You just have to let the banks who made those loans fail, and let the people who signed up for martgages they can't pay lose their homes. If we bail out everyone involved, they aren't going to learn a darn thing from their mistakes are they?

dude, reagan deregulated banks. why is that only "blaming". It's a fact and that fact led to the trouble we have today. Pretty much every piece of historical data that is being used today to track the current problems is traced to that point in time. NOt sure why you would think this is clueless, when it is fact.

secondly, recession by definition ain't that big a deal. JFK may have made a tax cut, so has just about every president who ever lived for all sorts of reasons. America wasn't hurting financially like it is today in JFK's day.

The banks and wall street brokers are to blame. here's why.

1) they practiced predatory lending by selling sub prime mortgages.

2) they packaged up those bad loans with other instruments of banking and investment and spread out the bad loans over a whole lot of other banks who greedily bought up all these "great" deals.

3) the bad deals finally came to light and some banks had over invested in those bad packages sold from wall street and US banks that they failed along with the businesses that sold them the failures.

here's an interesting thing for you. In Canada, we are only allowed to invest a small percentage into non Canadian equities or foreign equities altogether. That kind of regulation is what kept us financially healthy and the only place where we are hurting is where America has investments in us. so, because American car companies are failing, we are now looking at having to deal with that in our country.

In the long run, greed has weakened the financial markets and the investment industry. It will have to be put back onto regulation and there will be a lot of kicking and screaming about it. But, even children that kick and scream will get their bath anyway and have their ears cleaned and their bottoms washed.

:)

[Drake]

"predatory lending" is a two way street. Nobody ever mentions "predatory borrowing".

[David Jamieson]

"predatory lending" is a two way street. Nobody ever mentions "predatory borrowing".

Ok. Human nature is not hard to point at here.

Drake, if you find 100 dollars in the street do you keep it or do you return it to teh police department to find it's owner?

or

If you had no job, but had a family and needed a place for them to stay and someone offered you a loan to purchase a house, would you take it or would you continue to sleep in your car or at a park or a rest station with your family?

or

There are hundreds of scenarios as to why people took the sub prime loans. There is no question that people fall for temptation. I could entrap just about anyone if I possessed what they desired.

had regulation been in place, people wouldn't have been presented with the temptation and ergo it is called a predatory practice of lending and not borrowing.

predatory borrowing is called theft. lol

[BoulderDawg]

Reagan's trickle down economics and deregulation of the banking system in the US has led to where we are now. Epic fail if you ask me.

It all started with the deregulation of the S&Ls. Reagan did not start it but man did he embrace it and expand upon the philosophy.

I just don't understand how the republicans can spent 12 billion a month in Iraq for years without batting an eye yet scream bloody murder when the democrats want to spend some of that money here in the states.

In any case, no matter what's done it's going to get bad. There will probably be double digit unemployment and many many more bankrupties across the country.

My solution would be to immediately create jobs through a government programs kind of like FDR did. The market? This is the hard part. Create a panel of the smartest economic minds available and give them a year to come up with a solution. My ideas would include massive regulation of all markets, banks and financial institutions.

As far as the auto industry goes: Let it go, it's beyond saving, maybe a Ford might survive (Maybe not) but the rest of them will go. Hopefully they will be replaced by 21st century companies with 21st century ideas.

[Exadon]

I just don't understand how the republicans can spent 12 billion a month in Iraq for years without batting an eye yet scream bloody murder when the democrats want to spend some of that money here in the states.

I agree 100%.

[1bad65]

"predatory lending" is a two way street. Nobody ever mentions "predatory borrowing".

Actually, only liberals fail to mention "predatory borrowing". ;)

From what I've seen, ARMs were offered so people could buy houses well outside their price ranges. They weren't needed if you bought a house you qualified for with a fixed-rate loan.

Trust me, I was looking at houses during the high point of the bubble. I was offerend an ARM (on houses well outside our range) and I declined. No one held a gun up to my head either.

[1bad65]

I agree 100%.

He forgot that Democrats like our current Secretary of State voted for it as well.

[1bad65]

Again I ask, when is Obama going to take on the 'rent to own' industry? He promised to end predatory lending, yet places like Aaron's and Rent-A-Center (who charge up to 200% APR) are flourishing under his economy.

[David Jamieson]

The first signs of weakness are acts of protectionism. lol

[1bad65]

Let's see how Obama voted on Iraq:

"Obama and Clinton have shared the same stance on all major Iraq votes since Obama entered the Senate. These include the approval of over $300 billion in no-strings-attached war funds.

Beyond spending, Clinton and Obama both voted to confirm key players in the pro-war arena: Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff and Director of National Intelligence John Negroponte, among others."

http://www.alternet.org/election08/74126/

So how is it all Bush and the Republicans doing?

[Exadon]

He forgot that Democrats like our current Secretary of State voted for it as well.

Regardless, the majority of republicans were for it. And haha you are so full of party bashing hate. Do you really think the republicans have all the answers?

I don’t think either left or right knows all the answers.

I am an independent myself. When bush was in office you still blame the democrats for the countries down fall. So what would have been the point of bringing McCain in?

I remember one argument republicans used was that Republicans went to change the White house…but it changed them instead (not sure of the exact wording). If that is the case then why/how would john McCain have been any different?

Do Democrats spend a lot? Yes, Do they have their own share of problems? Yes. Clearly republicans don’t have the answers either.

"Don’t blame me I voted for McCain" quote is shanagins(sp?). You wash your hands of any problems based on something that never will come to past…and no one knows if it would have made any difference.

Obama is our president now. You can either gripe on the Internet, or you can go try to make a difference.
Hehe so make your choice : )

Me personly , I hate 2 party system we have (sorry indapendents…I am registered as one…but our party is not much of a party at all). it just create egotistocal right/left side extremest who only believe their party is right.

[David Jamieson]

Dude...

lol.

at least there is this to go by: http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/

what was there before? what's that? Nothing? well golly.

[BoulderDawg]

Again I ask, when is Obama going to take on the 'rent to own' industry? He promised to end predatory lending, yet places like Aaron's and Rent-A-Center (who charge up to 200% APR) are flourishing under his economy.

One big difference here, you are renting the furniture, computer, whatever.....If you can't pay the monthly rent you simply say come and get it and that's that.

[BoulderDawg]

Regardless, the majority of republicans were for it. And haha you are so full of party bashing hate. Do you really think the republicans have all the answers?

What he doesn't understand is that I don't see a lot of difference in the two parties....That's the reason I don't vote.

This is just another example of Bad's "Two wrongs make a right" ideology. You simply can't complain about Neo policy in the past because a few democrats supported it to.

Truth is, we are in the here and now, I only saw three GOP votes out of what? 250 GOP congresspeople? That's fairly well defined.

[uki]

The first signs of weakness are acts of protectionism. perhaps the american economy would be stronger if companies stopped outsourcing manufacturing to reduce labor costs... basically all i see is the government protecting the assets of the lobbyists and big dogs of the corporate world, while the american people suffer the consequences of their greed. people should wake up to the lies and deciet that have been swindling money out of the public for hundreds of years now. the current administration is nothing but a continuation of the former ones... it's not about the people, its about power and money... if there truly were change in washington, we'd have fresh faces not seen there before, but no, we get the same old folks simply recycled to different positions over the years. the only change we can believe in is that of our diminishing paychecks, our rights(privileges), and our personal freedoms... there is no other change to be seen... nothing.

same sh!t, different a$$holes.

[1bad65]

Regardless, the majority of republicans were for it. And haha you are so full of party bashing hate. Do you really think the republicans have all the answers?

My point was that all you people blaming ONLY Bush and the Republicans are ignorant of the facts. So I just posted the facts for you guys. No need to blow a gasket.

I am an independent myself. When bush was in office you still blame the democrats for the countries down fall. So what would have been the point of bringing McCain in?

They were the party who voted to keep Fannie and Freddie's books locked. And the ones ones running Fannie were either Democrats (like Franklin Raines), or sleeping with Democrats (like Herb Moses).

Look at what Barney Frank (D-MA) said and did about Fannie and Freddie:

In September 2003, Frank, then the ranking Democrat on the Republican-led Financial Services Committee, opposed a Bush administration proposal for transferring oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac from Congress and the Department of Housing and Urban Development to a new agency that would be created within the Treasury Department. The proposal reflected the administration's belief that Congress "neither has the tools, nor the stature" for adequate oversight. Frank stated, "These two entities...are not facing any kind of financial crisis.... The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B 63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

"Don’t blame me I voted for McCain" quote is shanagins(sp?). You wash your hands of any problems based on something that never will come to past…and no one knows if it would have made any difference.

McCain voted against the 'stimulus' plan. Obama signed it into law. That's a pretty big difference.

Obama is our president now. You can either gripe on the Internet, or you can go try to make a difference.
Hehe so make your choice : )

What are you saying? Remember, some knucklehead on here said I might "do something" to keep Obama from becoming President. :rolleyes:

I actually put it up to show I wasn't ignorant enough to vote entirely on EMOTION rather than LOGIC, and to let people know when this 'stimulus' fails that I was at least smart enough to see it's failure coming.

[1bad65]

perhaps the american economy would be stronger if companies stopped outsourcing manufacturing to reduce labor costs....

They actually do it more to avoid paying our corporate taxes here. The US has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world.

Honest, you're one of the smarter and rational guys who seems to be a bit liberal. Look up info on corporate taxes and make up your own mind on that issue.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1471.html

[BoulderDawg]

I actually put it up to show I wasn't ignorant enough to vote entirely on EMOTION rather than LOGIC, and to let people know when this 'stimulus' fails that I was at least smart enough to see it's failure coming.

I would like to know what parameters are going to be used to determine that the stimulus bill has failed. This is not a football game. We can't point to a score.

The truth is these economic problems are so deep that any action taken by the government (no matter what it is) will have little effect for maybe 4-5 years.

It's shaping up to be just as I predicted. Obama will get blamed because the economy will not instantly improve after several months. I'm betting the American people will be smart enough to realize that and remember who got us into this mess in the first place.

My guess is it will pretty much be politics as usual for the GOP.....as a matter of fact, since Rush Limbaugh is now leading the party, they might even retrogress back to their religious roots.

[Drake]

I recall learning that the problem isn't outsourcing itself, but not having competitive, favorable tax rates. Some outsourcing helps optimize businesses, but a high tax rate will keep them overseas. I pointed out the growth of Ireland a while back. Astronomical growth, all due to low/no corporate taxes.

You can't MAKE a business not outsource. That is pure socialism, and highly ineffective. You can, however, make your location more attractive so that they come back.

However, the party that supports this is currently in a seemingly permanent state of stupid, unable to break free.

And my argument about lending has nothing to do with finding $100 on the ground (which I have, and managed to get back to its owner), but more about the person making sensible choices and living within their means.

[Exadon]

as was said above, you have no idea what obama's effect will be over a few months. To assume that the stimulus bill (or any other bill geared towards helping the ecnomy) has failed this soon...is just absurd.

Oh and no I was not blowing any kastkit :) I hardly ever get upset about forums over the interwebs. I try to make it clear that I don't.

I don't pretend to know anything or everything. I just know that one sided blame will get you no where in life

[1bad65]

I would like to know what parameters are going to be used to determine that the stimulus bill has failed. This is not a football game. We can't point to a score.

I plan to use facts and figures. Things like inflation rates, unemployment rates, the national debt, interest rates, etc. Real figures.

The truth is these economic problems are so deep that any action taken by the government (no matter what it is) will have little effect for maybe 4-5 years.

Using another football analogy; notice how Obama keeps moving the goalposts!

So you really think its a good idea to spend over $700 billion dollars on something that MIGHT work in 4-5 years? :eek:

[1bad65]

I recall learning that the problem isn't outsourcing itself, but not having competitive, favorable tax rates. Some outsourcing helps optimize businesses, but a high tax rate will keep them overseas. I pointed out the growth of Ireland a while back. Astronomical growth, all due to low/no corporate taxes.

You can't MAKE a business not outsource. That is pure socialism, and highly ineffective. You can, however, make your location more attractive so that they come back.

However, the party that supports this is currently in a seemingly permanent state of stupid, unable to break free.

And my argument about lending has nothing to do with finding $100 on the ground (which I have, and managed to get back to its owner), but more about the person making sensible choices and living within their means.

Excellent post.

You understand the concept and causes of outsourcing quite well. I work in high-tech, so I get to see it firsthand myself.

[1bad65]

The truth is these economic problems are so deep that any action taken by the government (no matter what it is) will have little effect for maybe 4-5 years.

Carter left us with worse problems than what we have now. Reagan came on board with inflation in double-digits, unemployment over 6%, and interest rates at 22.5%. He had the economy turned around in under a year.

FYI, the 22.5% interest rate was the highest in United States history.

[1bad65]

Bobby Jindal, who will give the Republican response to Obama's speech tonight, hit the nail on the head:

"Who among us would ask our children for a loan, so we could spend money we do not have, on things we do not need? That is precisely what the Democrats in Congress just did. It's irresponsible."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/24/sotn.jindal.speech/index.html

[David Jamieson]

dude, you are fizzucked in teh head. that much is obvious.

it was only a month or so ago that the reps with W and Paulson raided the coffers and doled out 850 billion usd in an unprecedented act of corporate welfare.

it was this same party that walked america into a recession after being handed a surplus at the onset.

it is these reps who put you in a war that costs you billions of dollars a month and now you just gotta look for an out because the reps that led you in never had an exit strategy to begin with.

why are you trying to put the weight of republican errors and republican cluster*ucks onto the Obama administration.

sister please. you are trying to create a noise to signal ratio. in the meantime, you republicans should really be getting together and deciding what a republican is and what a republican stands for, because apparently, you republicans don't know what exactly that is.

in the meantime, democrats are running the show. so sit back and let the guys do their job.

in 60 days or so, lets meet back here and compare the former republican presidents first 100 days with the current democratic presidents 100 days when they hit in a couple of months, and we'll see which party is doing a better job of running the country and which one has made the most headway in the world.

lol @ rwnj :p

[bawang]

i eat cats

[BoulderDawg]

I plan to use facts and figures. Things like inflation rates, unemployment rates, the national debt, interest rates, etc. Real figures.


This is a good example of Bad's conception of his ideology.

This response is neither liberal or conservative. But rather it's a response that I would expect to hear from a average 6th grader when asked what he was going to use to write a paper about the economy. It's a good post because it exposes Bad's thought processes when there is no pat answer that he can get from his favorite Neo blog.

I call it trailer park wisdom. In other words you just plow straight ahead with the most general BS that you know and hope no one doesn't call you on it.:D

[BoulderDawg]

It appears that the GOP have their version of the next big thing. His name is Boddy Jindal.

Can't wait to see this guy, who is Indian, trying to raise money within the GOP....especially in the south! :-) However I will say he has a good head on his shoulders and if asked the question to quantify parameters would have given a detailed answer!:cool:

[1bad65]

This response is neither liberal or conservative. But rather it's a response that I would expect to hear from a average 6th grader when asked what he was going to use to write a paper about the economy. It's a good post because it exposes Bad's thought processes when there is no pat answer that he can get from his favorite Neo blog.

If things like unemployment rates, inflation rates, the national debt, and interest rates are not accurate ways to measure an economy; how would YOU propose we measure it? :confused:

Are you trolling? I'm being 100% serious here.

[1bad65]

Can't wait to see this guy, who is Indian, trying to raise money within the GOP....especially in the south! :-)

You do realize the guy won the election for Governor in the state of Louisiana, right? The last time I checked Louisiana was a Southern state.

[1bad65]

it was only a month or so ago that the reps with W and Paulson raided the coffers and doled out 850 billion usd in an unprecedented act of corporate welfare.

And Obama voted for that too.

it was this same party that walked america into a recession after being handed a surplus at the onset.

That is completely untrue, and you know it. It was BOTH parties who did it.

it is these reps who put you in a war that costs you billions of dollars a month and now you just gotta look for an out because the reps that led you in never had an exit strategy to begin with.

Again, his Secretary of State voted for the war too. And OBAMA HIMSELF voted to fund it with no strings attached.

why are you trying to put the weight of republican errors and republican cluster*ucks onto the Obama administration.

The last I checked Obama signed the last bailout. And now he wants to bail out morons who bought houses they couldn't afford. And you watch, he will give GM billions more very shortly.

[Drake]

The GOP supports him, because he isn't bat-ass crazy, and he actually reflects republican values. I still think they shouldn't trash talk the other party and focus instead on what they offer.

Hopefully next election will be a good fight and not this rout we saw last time.

[MightyB]

I liked everything he had to say last night. If he can get the support to follow through on the commitments he outlined, it will be awesome! Basically he's working at reforming 8 years worth of bad legislation.

[David Jamieson]

The GOP supports him, because he isn't bat-ass crazy, and he actually reflects republican values. I still think they shouldn't trash talk the other party and focus instead on what they offer.

Hopefully next election will be a good fight and not this rout we saw last time.

there's still too many grubby rovian maladroits in the works.

once they can wheedle those idiots out from the party, they will have a better standing.

right now there is too much voice given to religious nuts, gun nuts, pseudo fascists and warhawks and not enough voice given to centrists and moderates within the GOP who are the real GOP and the base of it.

If the GOP can get rid of the mudslingers and powerhouse whiners, they will be two steps ahead instead of 4 steps behind.

[sean_stonehart]

It appears that the GOP have their version of the next big thing. His name is Boddy Jindal.

Actually... it's Bobby... http://www.bobbyjindal.com/

And he's not the "GOP's version of the next big thing". He's a young state governor of a Southern state who has a good head on his shoulders that has more political experience than the Obamassiah... look at his years of service. If he were to get the GOP nomination in '12, he'd be more qualified than the current one at the same point in time.


Can't wait to see this guy, who is Indian, trying to raise money within the GOP....especially in the south! :-)

As it's already been pointed out, he's the governor of Louisiana. He even has a Louisiana accent.

[David Jamieson]

From Jindals own site:

JINDAL: Look, our Republican Party got fired with cause these last two election cycles. We became the party that defended spending, corruption that we never should have tolerated, and we stopped offering relevant solutions to the problems that Americans care about. I think now is the time, it's a great opportunity for Republican governors and other leaders to offer conservative-based solutions to the problems. For example, whether it's the mortgage crisis, how we can help people keep their homes; whether it's the banking crisis, we won't have time to talk about, you know, mark to market and some of the other reforms that could be done; whether it's the stimulus package, the Republican Party has gotta offer conservative alternative solutions. I think our obligation is to work with the president every chance we can, to be bipartisan, we've done that in Louisiana, we've cut taxes six times, reformed ethics. We need to work with the president every chance we can, but on principle, when we disagree with him, we should be unafraid to stand up on principle and to point out our alternative solutions.

now's the time?

you just had 8 years to do something. How is NOW the time? yeesh. lol etc.

[1bad65]

right now there is too much voice given to religious nuts, gun nuts, pseudo fascists and warhawks and not enough voice given to centrists and moderates within the GOP who are the real GOP and the base of it.

Well first off, those 'religious nuts' and 'gun nuts' just want to keep their rights given them under the Constitution. If they are 'warhawks', then so are Obama and Hillary. And last time I checked, fascists were against gun and religious rights. Learn history.

[1bad65]

I liked everything he had to say last night. If he can get the support to follow through on the commitments he outlined, it will be awesome! Basically he's working at reforming 8 years worth of bad legislation.

If you're referring to Obama, his speech was pretty much half-truths and outright lies.

OBAMA: "We have known for decades that our survival depends on finding new sources of energy. Yet we import more oil today than ever before."

THE FACTS: Oil imports peaked in 2005 at just over 5 billion barrels, and have been declining slightly since. The figure in 2007 was 4.9 billion barrels, or about 58 percent of total consumption. The nation is on pace this year to import 4.7 billion barrels, and government projections are for imports to hold steady or decrease a bit over the next two decades.

OBAMA: "Regulations were gutted for the sake of a quick profit at the expense of a healthy market. People bought homes they knew they couldn't afford from banks and lenders who pushed those bad loans anyway. And all the while, critical debates and difficult decisions were put off for some other time on some other day."

THE FACTS: This may be so, but it isn't only Republicans who pushed for deregulation of the financial industries. The Clinton administration championed an easing of banking regulations, including legislation that ended the barrier between regular banks and Wall Street banks. That led to a deregulation that kept regular banks under tight federal regulation but extended lax regulation of Wall Street banks. Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, later an economic adviser to candidate Obama, was in the forefront in pushing for this deregulation.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/02/24/fact-check-president-glosses-complex-realities/

[1bad65]

Actually... it's Bobby... http://www.bobbyjindal.com/

And he's not the "GOP's version of the next big thing". He's a young state governor of a Southern state who has a good head on his shoulders that has more political experience than the Obamassiah... look at his years of service. If he were to get the GOP nomination in '12, he'd be more qualified than the current one at the same point in time.

As it's already been pointed out, he's the governor of Louisiana. He even has a Louisiana accent.

Excellent first post on the topic.

[1bad65]

From Jindals own site:

now's the time?

you just had 8 years to do something. How is NOW the time? yeesh. lol etc.

Mr Jindal was in Congress at that time? :confused:

[sanjuro_ronin]

If you're referring to Obama, his speech was pretty much half-truths and outright lies.

OBAMA: "We have known for decades that our survival depends on finding new sources of energy. Yet we import more oil today than ever before."

THE FACTS: Oil imports peaked in 2005 at just over 5 billion barrels, and have been declining slightly since. The figure in 2007 was 4.9 billion barrels, or about 58 percent of total consumption. The nation is on pace this year to import 4.7 billion barrels, and government projections are for imports to hold steady or decrease a bit over the next two decades.

OBAMA: "Regulations were gutted for the sake of a quick profit at the expense of a healthy market. People bought homes they knew they couldn't afford from banks and lenders who pushed those bad loans anyway. And all the while, critical debates and difficult decisions were put off for some other time on some other day."

THE FACTS: This may be so, but it isn't only Republicans who pushed for deregulation of the financial industries. The Clinton administration championed an easing of banking regulations, including legislation that ended the barrier between regular banks and Wall Street banks. That led to a deregulation that kept regular banks under tight federal regulation but extended lax regulation of Wall Street banks. Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, later an economic adviser to candidate Obama, was in the forefront in pushing for this deregulation.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/02/24/fact-check-president-glosses-complex-realities/

That's what happens when Democrats try to act like Republicans and vice-versa.

[Exadon]

If you're referring to Obama, his speech was pretty much half-truths and outright lies.

...

OBAMA: "Regulations were gutted for the sake of a quick profit at the expense of a healthy market. People bought homes they knew they couldn't afford from banks and lenders who pushed those bad loans anyway. And all the while, critical debates and difficult decisions were put off for some other time on some other day."

THE FACTS: This may be so, but it isn't only Republicans who pushed for deregulation of the financial industries.


I may have missed something...but where did Obama say it was "only the Republicans" who pushed for deregulation?

[MightyB]

http://www.recovery.gov/

[1bad65]

I may have missed something...but where did Obama say it was "only the Republicans" who pushed for deregulation?

It was his economic advisor who deregulated too!

How can he bash deregulation, when HE chose an economic advisor who was all for it?

And all during the election he used the word 'deregulation' and blamed ONLY Bush and the Republicans. He never blamed both parties.

[1bad65]

Also, how do explain him LYING about oil imports?

[1bad65]

That's what happens when Democrats try to act like Republicans and vice-versa.

True.

However Obama is not trying to ACT like a Republican. He is TALKING like one, but passing and advocating Socialist legislation.

[Exadon]

It was his economic advisor who deregulated too!

How can he bash deregulation, when HE chose an economic advisor who was all for it?

And all during the election he used the word 'deregulation' and blamed ONLY Bush and the Republicans. He never blamed both parties.

That is not the point, you did not answer the question. You stated that his speech was filled with lies and 1/2 truths. He said something that you admitted was true...yet made it sound as if during his speech he blamed only one side.

Also…(since you bring up the election )I am pretty sure during many parts of his election he said "There is plenty of blame to go around".

I rather not get into the pre election nonsense though, we could go back and forth about things said in pre election by both sides.

I asked a simple question of where during his speech did he blame only bush and republicans. From your quote above…you can clearly see he did not. This is something you pulled out of thin air and twisted it…so you could make it seem as if Obama lied or gave a ½ truth.

[MightyB]

True.

However Obama is not trying to ACT like a Republican. He is TALKING like one, but passing and advocating Socialist legislation.

Face it- people hated what happened. Both parties were at fault. We need change- however much I like McCain, he wouldn't have been as effective as an agent for change as Obama. It's time we sit back, evaluate, demand action, and move on.

The Repubs had a chance- they blew it- badly- and destroyed a nation in a very obvious stance that favored corporate greed over it's citizens. They may never be able to recover from the Chaney/Bush presidency... (so much so that I'm ashamed to admit I voted for him. Read the Economist and see what his presidency cost us).

[Exadon]

Also, how do explain him LYING about oil imports?


OBAMA: "We have known for decades that our survival depends on finding new sources of energy. Yet we import more oil today than ever before."

THE FACTS: Oil imports peaked in 2005 at just over 5 billion barrels, and have been declining slightly since. The figure in 2007 was 4.9 billion barrels, or about 58 percent of total consumption. The nation is on pace this year to import 4.7 billion barrels, and government projections are for imports to hold steady or decrease a bit over the next two decades.


All I have to say to that is big deal? He got his facts wrong? Maybe he meant to say that demand is higher than ever but due to the world production slowing down...fewer imports are being made...and thus prices have been driven up?

Who knows. This is something that I don't see as a big deal at all. Either way he wants us to move in a direction less dependent on oil. How is that bad?

"Oops sorry guys … looks like we can depend on oil now … because in 2005 we imported more oil than now"

If you want to mark that as a ½ truth or even a "lie" I am fine with that. If he wants to lie all day long about how bad we depend on oil and the outcome is making us cleaning up our act? So be it.

[uki]

Honest, you're one of the smarter and rational guys who seems to be a bit liberal. geez thanks!! you're not so bad either for someone listed as being in texas. :)

[uki]

whoa now, more change mind you...
LONDON (Reuters) - Abuse of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay has worsened sharply since President Barack Obama took office as prison guards "get their kicks in" before the camp is closed, according to a lawyer who represents detainees.

Abuses began to pick up in December after Obama was elected, human rights lawyer Ahmed Ghappour told Reuters. He cited beatings, the dislocation of limbs, spraying of pepper spray into closed cells, applying pepper spray to toilet paper and over-forcefeeding detainees who are on hunger strike.

The Pentagon said on Monday that it had received renewed reports of prisoner abuse during a recent review of conditions at Guantanamo, but had concluded that all prisoners were being kept in accordance with the Geneva Conventions.

"According to my clients, there has been a ramping up in abuse since President Obama was inaugurated," said Ghappour, a British-American lawyer with Reprieve, a legal charity that represents 31 detainees at Guantanamo.

"If one was to use one's imagination, (one) could say that these traumatized, and for lack of a better word barbaric, guards were just basically trying to get their kicks in right now for fear that they won't be able to later," he said.

"Certainly in my experience there have been many, many more reported incidents of abuse since the inauguration," added Ghappour, who has visited Guantanamo six times since late September and based his comments on his own observations and conversations with both prisoners and guards.


full article... http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE51O3TB20090225?sp=true

change truly is in the air folks.

[Exadon]

whoa now, more change mind you...

full article... http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE51O3TB20090225?sp=true

change truly is in the air folks.

Sad to see it happen, and it clearly is not Obama's fault. Unless ofcourse you want him to keep Guantanamo Bay open...so the prision gaurds will stick to their normal coruption...instead of trying to get MORE kicks in before they close?

Edit: Not that I am saying you were relating this to being obama’s fault, but just making sure : )

[David Jamieson]

let's not forget that the observations are coming from ONE lawyer who is representing his clients who are prisoners at the base until they are dispersed.

Take it with a grain of salt in other words. It's likely, the same lawyer will cite that article as having some cred when it comes time to have his client tried.

[BoulderDawg]

If things like unemployment rates, inflation rates, the national debt, and interest rates are not accurate ways to measure an economy; how would YOU propose we measure it? :confused:

Are you trolling? I'm being 100% serious here.

Do you not know the difference between a variable and a parameter? Obviously not.

I asked for parameters but you replied with a list of variables. The post went totally over your head.

Variables are factors used in the determination: inflation, interest rates, etc. Parameters are limits and boundaries of your "Facts and figures". How are you going to measure these things to determine failure?

Everyone else on this board understood that but you Bad. I should not have to explain middle school statistics to adults here.

[BoulderDawg]

You do realize the guy won the election for Governor in the state of Louisiana, right? The last time I checked Louisiana was a Southern state.


I guess we'll see about that. The Neos down there talk a big game but when it comes down to actually voting..........As Rice would have found out had she ran.

People in states likes Georgia, Alabama and South Carolina would never support this guy.

[sean_stonehart]

People in states likes Georgia, Alabama and South Carolina would never support this guy.


Really? You know how we vote?? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Let me put it this way... there is a State Senator that received more votes for his Senate seat than Obama did for President... and he ended up being in a run off!

[mawali]

Regardless of what I think, the following is true, whether I want to believe it or not:
1, This period was created by the previous administration and it is followjng a natural cyle, i,e, the market will correct itself on its own. Policies can only assist.
2, Obama inherited the crap and it is his job as President to fix it, or at least try!
If the American people are expecting a signature on a piece of legislation to magically change the economic crisis, they have took in too much Bush juice, It aint going to happen!
3, McCain wanted time off to package, along with his Republican allies a similar Stimulus Plan.
4. Wasn't Bush attempting to do a similar deal?

[BoulderDawg]

Really? You know how we vote?? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Probably a lot better than you do.

[1bad65]

Do you not know the difference between a variable and a parameter? Obviously not.

I asked for parameters but you replied with a list of variables. The post went totally over your head.

Variables are factors used in the determination: inflation, interest rates, etc. Parameters are limits and boundaries of your "Facts and figures". How are you going to measure these things to determine failure?

Everyone else on this board understood that but you Bad. I should not have to explain middle school statistics to adults here.

Again I ask, what do YOU say we use to judge Obama's success or failure in relation to the economy?

FYI, I had planned on taking the things I had mentioned and using figures from Jan 2009 for Bush and the month Obama leaves office (Jan 2013 or Jan 2017) for his.

[1bad65]

I guess we'll see about that. The Neos down there talk a big game but when it comes down to actually voting..........As Rice would have found out had she ran.

People in states likes Georgia, Alabama and South Carolina would never support this guy.

You sure do harp on race alot for a guy who calls others racist.

[1bad65]

http://www.recovery.gov/

You know more than our Vice President!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJnJKE8kkmM

Reporter: By the way, do you know the website?

Biden: You know I'm embarrassed. Do you know the website number? Uh, uh I should have it in front of me and I don't. I'm, I'm, I'm actually embarrassed.

And you guys made fun of McCain!

[1bad65]

Hey guys, what's the website number here? :D

[sean_stonehart]

Probably a lot better than you do.

Yeah ... I'm thinking no to that sweetcakes .... :rolleyes:

[BoulderDawg]

Yeah ... I'm thinking no to that sweetcakes .... :rolleyes:


I was involved activily in Georgia politics for over a decade. I knew people from both parties and worked for both parties.

While in college my friend Ralph Reed got me involved in his CR group (Something I regret but I was young and stupid) and I was active in the CRs for three years....thank God I graduated before Ralph got out of control and disgraced the CR. I also played Ice Hockey with Neil Bootz, who I still consider an arrogance A hole but he did know all about the GOP in Georgia and did not mind sharing his true views in private.

So yeah, I have a very good insite into the mind of the conservative voter in the south.

How about your qualifications, honeybuns?

[1bad65]

I also played Ice Hockey with Neil Bootz,...

Who is Neil Bootz?

[sean_stonehart]

I was involved activily in Georgia politics for over a decade. I knew people from both parties and worked for both parties.

While in college my friend Ralph Reed got me involved in his CR group (Something I regret but I was young and stupid) and I was active in the CRs for three years....thank God I graduated before Ralph got out of control and disgraced the CR. I also played Ice Hockey with Neil Bootz, who I still consider an arrogance A hole but he did know all about the GOP in Georgia and did not mind sharing his true views in private.

So yeah, I have a very good insite into the mind of the conservative voter in the south.

How about your qualifications, honeybuns?

Simple I live & participate in politics here. I cast my vote with other Georgians. Do you?

[Drake]

I can't openly support any political group. My allegiance lies with the President, regardless of who he is. Makes me seem flip-floppy at times, but I honestly believe our Presidents have our best interests at heart when they make their decisions. I'll just go as far as to say that they can and do make mistakes. They are human beings, not robots. Unless you are one of dem conspiracy theorists. Then maybe the Pres really IS a robot installed by the illuminati and NWO in order to enslave us all.

You know we are working on a ridiculously powerful central computer system for all ops now, right? All they have to do is name it Skynet and I'm moving into the bomb shelter with the rest of the nutjobs.

[uki]

I can't openly support any political group. My allegiance lies with the President, regardless of who he is.yet it is your sworn oath of duty to uphold the constitution... not the president... if a president begins to trump the constitution, it is your duty to defy him no matter what the consequences are. where is obamas credibility on being a natural born citizen? have you looked into it? if he turns out to be a fraud and an impostor, you will have failed your duty of upholding the constitution... it is your duty to ensure that the president is defined by the parameters set forth in the constitution, if he is not, it is your duty to disobey him. :)

[David Jamieson]

yet it is your sworn oath of duty to uphold the constitution... not the president... if a president begins to trump the constitution, it is your duty to defy him no matter what the consequences are. where is obamas credibility on being a natural born citizen? have you looked into it? if he turns out to be a fraud and an impostor, you will have failed your duty of upholding the constitution... it is your duty to ensure that the president is defined by the parameters set forth in the constitution, if he is not, it is your duty to disobey him. :)

lol, dude, let it go, that was resolved, everyone has moved on.

[uki]

lol, dude, let it go, that was resolved, everyone has moved on.just because it appears to be resolved and has moved on doesn't mean that the truth has not been suppressed...

[Drake]

He has to hold a security clearance, which would be impossible if the allegations were true. If he passed CCF for his TS/SCI, then he's good by me.

[SimonM]

Although I've seen enough evidence that Obama meets the constitutional requirement for your presidency and although I personally like the guy (who seems to have his heart in basically the right place even if he is f@cked in the head over Afghanistan) I gotta say Drake that Uki has a point.

Shudder....

Uki...

has...

a...

valid...

point....

It must be the apocalypse.

Anyway the point is this: throwing blind alegiance behind a man just because of the desk he sits behind is a dangerous thing to do.

Way too many people did that in the 1930s in Germany man.

[BoulderDawg]

Simple I live & participate in politics here. I cast my vote with other Georgians. Do you?

How do you participate in politics other than voting?

Simply living there and casting a vote shows nothing. As a matter of fact it makes you less of a unbiased observer.

However I've told you my opinion of how southern voters would react to Jindel....Now you give me yours.

[BoulderDawg]

I just really have to laugh about Jindal:

>>>>Many conservatives say Jindal appeared at best off-balance and at worst downright amateur in his national debut.<<<<

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/25/jindal.reaction/index.html

:D:D:D

Of course when your ideas and philosophy are totally off the wall it's hard to come across as a professional!

[David Jamieson]

Although I've seen enough evidence that Obama meets the constitutional requirement for your presidency and although I personally like the guy (who seems to have his heart in basically the right place even if he is f@cked in the head over Afghanistan) I gotta say Drake that Uki has a point.

Shudder....

Uki...

has...

a...

valid...

point....

It must be the apocalypse.

Anyway the point is this: throwing blind alegiance behind a man just because of the desk he sits behind is a dangerous thing to do.

Way too many people did that in the 1930s in Germany man.

Every military man and women since 1776 has done it.
He is the Commander in Chief and that is what it is.

If you guys want to talk about militias, well that's different, but the US mil is under the president's control.

[SimonM]

Well I think we can agree, David, that I would be entirely unsuited to the military.

[BoulderDawg]

But of course being the Commander in Chief does not give the President absolute power. Let's say the President just all of a sudden said "Let's go attack Canada".......I seriously doubt we would be heading up there. Like any military officer he could be relieved from duty if deemed mentally unstable......Too bad no one stopped Bush.

[1bad65]

Simply living there and casting a vote shows nothing. As a matter of fact it makes you less of a unbiased observer.

And you wonder why people don't take you seriously.

However I've told you my opinion of how southern voters would react to Jindel....Now you give me yours.

What part of "He has won a statewide race in a Southern state" do you not grasp?

[1bad65]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/25/jindal.reaction/index.html

Hey, you're using a Neo blog as a source. That site doesn't count. Try again. :D

[1bad65]

Like any military officer he could be relieved from duty if deemed mentally unstable

Only the Senate can remove him from office. Read the Constitution.

......Too bad no one stopped Bush.

Senators like Obama and Clinton were too busy voting WITH him to stop him. ;)

[Drake]

I can't remove the pres from office. Jeebus crikey...educate yourself.

And unless the order is illegal, I have to follow it blindly, and even support it as though it were my idea. Teamwork and cooperation are vital to success, not running off on your own trying to be a one-man superhero. You will fail that way. I know if I were CinC or a BN/BDE commander, I'd like the support from my suboordinates. That, or I'd just bring down the almighty thumb on them. I expect my soldiers to follow me without question, unless I give an illegal order. Debate gets people killed in my line of work.

[David Jamieson]

Well I think we can agree, David, that I would be entirely unsuited to the military.

It is very rare and very few enter into service at a later age.
there's a reason for that. ;)

(by later age, I mean over 35, by that time you're jaded AND tainted :p )

[GLW]

He did not specify WHO would relieve him of command. Only that the President can be relieved of command like any other commander in the US military structure.

In regards to military personnel, the oath that a soldier takes is :

"I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God"

The support and defense of the Constitution of the United States, as you can see, has no caveats or exemptions.

However, the part of the oath to obey the President and then the military’s chain of command includes the qualifier that the soldier and those giving the orders must comply with the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

This was of consequence in such things as the prosecution of the Nuremburg trials, the actions of people such as Lt. Calley, Oliver North, and those involved in Abu Ghraib.

It is not a coincidence that the allegiance to the Constitution comes first and without preconditions.

[Drake]

He did not specify WHO would relieve him of command. Only that the President can be relieved of command like any other commander in the US military structure.

In regards to military personnel, the oath that a soldier takes is :

"I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God"

The support and defense of the Constitution of the United States, as you can see, has no caveats or exemptions.

However, the part of the oath to obey the President and then the military’s chain of command includes the qualifier that the soldier and those giving the orders must comply with the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

This was of consequence in such things as the prosecution of the Nuremburg trials, the actions of people such as Lt. Calley, Oliver North, and those involved in Abu Ghraib.

It is not a coincidence that the allegiance to the Constitution comes first and without preconditions.

The officer oath is different...

[BoulderDawg]

Just for argument sake, what if the President totally went insane, started foaming at the mouth and started yelling that the VP was an alien from outer space and you need to shoot him.

There has to be some sort of military structure in place that would allow a doctor to relieve him of command....would there not?

[Luk Hop]

Only the Senate can remove him from office. )


I assume that these articles have been seen, but maybe not:

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/us_world/US-Soldier-Calls-Obama-an-Impostor.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=89941

Overthrow the government. Maybe even a military coup. After all, the U.S. is now being viewed by some as acting like a banana republic.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5780720.ece

[Drake]

You really need to get to know how your government works, because that is a question a 5th grader might ask.

[uki]

You really need to get to know how your government works.you mean it works?? all that can be seen at this point in time is how it doesn't work.

[1bad65]

You really need to get to know how your government works, because that is a question a 5th grader might ask.

You must have forgotten who you are dealing with. :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

you mean it works?? all that can be seen at this point in time is how it doesn't work.

Don't worry, according to Obama, government will fix just about everything.

[GLW]

And your point is?

There are at least 4 versions of oaths here :

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same...

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; ...

I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; ...

I, [name], do solemly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State (Commonwealth, District, Territory) of ___ against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same...

And all of them place the support and defense of the Constitution as the first priority without any disclaimers or exemptions.

So, if any order is given to a member of the military by a superior that violates the support and defense of the Constitution, technically, that member of the military is supposed to disobey or refuse the order.

Now, in the rare instances that this has happened, the US has been very haphazard in walking the walk as it were in regards to recognizing said soldier's obligation to the first part of his/her oath.

But bottom line, the allegiance is first to the US Constitution.

[Drake]

Has it occurred to you that maybe, just maybe I know a bit more about this than you?

[uki]

Don't worry, according to Obama, government will fix just about everything.i even heard he's gonna save us from global warming.


But bottom line, the allegiance is first to the US Constitution.amen brother... my patriot act is the bill of rights.

[BoulderDawg]

Has it occurred to you that maybe, just maybe I know a bit more about this than you?

I haven't seen any post on this board that suggest that you know more than anybody else here. I have seen smug references (such as the one above) that suggest your opinion is the end all, be all on any subject.

[GLW]

I am simply giving you the semantics of the oath you had to take.

If you wish to "interpret" what it meant...then please fill everyone in on how you interpreted your oath. Then also include what the US government thinks of YOUR interpretation as well as what the explicit branch of military you serve in thinks of it as well. You may also want to run it by some legal scholars.

It is not uncommon for people to take oaths and not understand at all what they are saying. It happens all the time in courts across the US. It DEFINITELY happens every day in pretty much every marriage ceremony - civil or religious.

But the point here is that pretty much from the inception of the US - at least as far back as the Constitution goes, the Constitution has been considered the thing that defines the US. (and of this, the Bill of Rights is right up on top)

Maybe, just maybe, if people would remember that little piece of trivia, we would have REAL discussion of acts of conscience and of people doing their best to actually support and defend the Constitution instead of "following orders" or worse yet, either using the Constitution as a smokescreen for their own anti-Constitutional agendas (both sides of the aisles here) or even worse still, taking the attitude that the Constitution does not matter.

[BoulderDawg]

My Oath:

I [state your name] declare no loyality and vow no defense or protection to any political document or group of superiors. I will bear true faith and allegiance to the betterment of all human kind.

[uki]

have seen smug references (such as the one above) that suggest your opinion is the end all, be all on any subject.must be an officer thang. :D

I am simply giving you the semantics of the oath you had to take.

If you wish to "interpret" what it meant...then please fill everyone in on how you interpreted your oath. Then also include what the US government thinks of YOUR interpretation as well as what the explicit branch of military you serve in thinks of it as well. You may also want to run it by some legal scholars.

It is not uncommon for people to take oaths and not understand at all what they are saying. It happens all the time in courts across the US. It DEFINITELY happens every day in pretty much every marriage ceremony - civil or religious.

But the point here is that pretty much from the inception of the US - at least as far back as the Constitution goes, the Constitution has been considered the thing that defines the US. (and of this, the Bill of Rights is right up on top)

Maybe, just maybe, if people would remember that little piece of trivia, we would have REAL discussion of acts of conscience and of people doing their best to actually support and defend the Constitution instead of "following orders" or worse yet, either using the Constitution as a smokescreen for their own anti-Constitutional agendas (both sides of the aisles here) or even worse still, taking the attitude that the Constitution does not matter.a most excellent post sir.

[1bad65]

Has it occurred to you that maybe, just maybe I know a bit more about this than you?

I haven't seen any post on this board that suggest that you know more than anybody else here. I have seen smug references (such as the one above) that suggest your opinion is the end all, be all on any subject.

Apparently not. :rolleyes:

[sean_stonehart]

How do you participate in politics other than voting?


Well considering I liked smoking pot as a teenager & inhaled alot, had lots of sex with lots of women & don't have an Ivy league education, I do what I can. I vote. I keep my voice heard by my representatives.


Simply living there and casting a vote shows nothing. As a matter of fact it makes you less of a unbiased observer.

No of course living here (instead of across the country) and voting here (instead of across the country), talking with people in my district & precincts (instead of across the country) shows nothing. It doesn't show that I'm in the middle of my political business as best I make them. It shows than I'm less than an unbiased observer. I'm an informed, active member of my community. Of course you living across the country from me who happened to go to college with a politico in the area shows you know everything. I'm so sorry to think I might have an idea about how we vote here based on experience & ground level knowledge as opposed to you across country...:rolleyes:



However I've told you my opinion of how southern voters would react to Jindel....Now you give me yours.

My opinion? Doesn't matter this far out. Whoever puts forth the best info, best showing, appears to work for the interests at the time when voting is occuring... they get the vote. Here in Ga... if Jindal gets the message across, Jindal gets it. If he doesn't, he doesn't.

So why do you enlighted being of Poltical Know-it-all of the South... tell me how I'll vote...

[sean_stonehart]

And you wonder why people don't take you seriously.

Well he'll be in charge of us at our welfare lines & food lines... he's backing the right team & letting it be known... ;)



What part of "He has won a statewide race in a Southern state" do you not grasp?

Any of it... at all...

[BoulderDawg]

So why do you enlighted being of Poltical Know-it-all of the South... tell me how I'll vote...

You will come out in public talking about what a smart man Jindal is....How you really like him and would like to hear more about him. However you also like (Fill in the blank white candidate) and that, at this time, he's represents your views a little better. In private it will be a bit different. There will be a lot of the same things your heard about Obama, He grew up in a different culture, has a different religion and just isn't like us. Message does not matter.

Tell me, Mr. "I'm active in my community", just exactly how many conservative minority elected public officials do you have in your county? How many are there across the state of Georgia?

[BoulderDawg]

By the way, one final comment about Jindal

I did not see the speech he gave but I understand it was really bad. There was one point he made that I just couldn't believe....

Jindal was complaining about federal money for the early detection of active volcanos.....So Mr. Jindal, the people in the Northwest should not be warned in Mt St Helens or Mt Rainier is about to blow it's top????? Maybe they should also reduce the amount of money used to warn people about hurricanes.

[uki]

Maybe they should also reduce the amount of money used to warn people about hurricanes.well the current economic situation is forcing major newspapers to file for bankruptcy, which would infact lesson the ability of warning the people of the coming fascist dictatorship soon to sweep across the country, aswell as all the other events which will lead to the inevitable social breakdown of our society that will usher in a new era of martial law. :)

[Wildwoo]

What does any of this have to do with Kung Fu?

For all you animal lovers (http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q69/lokhopkuen/Kuniyoshi1829ComicCheckingOutTheDog.jpg) :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

You will come out in public talking about what a smart man Jindal is....How you really like him and would like to hear more about him. However you also like (Fill in the blank white candidate) and that, at this time, he's represents your views a little better. In private it will be a bit different. There will be a lot of the same things your heard about Obama, He grew up in a different culture, has a different religion and just isn't like us. Message does not matter.

As you can see, rational debate with him is pointless. He truly lives in a world all his own.

[1bad65]

well the current economic situation is forcing major newspapers to file for bankruptcy, which would infact lesson the ability of warning the people of the coming fascist dictatorship soon to sweep across the country, aswell as all the other events which will lead to the inevitable social breakdown of our society that will usher in a new era of martial law. :)

Considering most of the press is liberal, there is a good chance Obama will bail them out too.

[uki]

Considering most of the press is liberal, there is a good chance Obama will bail them out too.of course, yet something tells me that one of the effects from that bailout(if it were to come) would be some genuine arse-kissing and presentation of even greater biased news stories which would reflect the whims and dictations of those in charge.

What does any of this have to do with Kung Fu?well einstein, in case you didn't notice the OT(which implies the thread is OFF TOPIC), perhaps the fact that it will affect all people, including people who practice kung fu, would enlighten you as to why it was posted... therefore it does have something to do with kung fu if you invest enough time and energy into percieving the answer to your own question before you ask it. :)

[BoulderDawg]

well the current economic situation is forcing major newspapers to file for bankruptcy, which would infact lesson the ability of warning the people of the coming fascist dictatorship soon to sweep across the country, aswell as all the other events which will lead to the inevitable social breakdown of our society that will usher in a new era of martial law. :)

You know it's kinda like "Who cares". I haven't subscribed to a physical newspaper in over 10 years and I can't remember the last time I bought one. If I want to get the news in paper form I'll just pick up the Colorado Daily it's free and fairly unbaised.

It's kinda like my land telephone line at home......Why do I pay $30 a month for it? I haven't a clue. I haven't really used that phone in months.

Times they are a'changing

[Wildwoo]

of course, yet something tells me that one of the effects from that bailout(if it were to come) would be some genuine arse-kissing and presentation of even greater biased news stories which would reflect the whims and dictations of those in charge.

well einstein, in case you didn't notice the OT(which implies the thread is OFF TOPIC), perhaps the fact that it will affect all people, including people who practice kung fu, would enlighten you as to why it was posted... therefore it does have something to do with kung fu if you invest enough time and energy into percieving the answer to your own question before you ask it. :)

Well thanks.

Good thing your OT discussion will effect everything as well.

tard

[mawali]

By the way, one final comment about Jindal

I did not see the speech he gave but I understand it was really bad. There was one point he made that I just couldn't believe....

Jindal was complaining about federal money for the early detection of active volcanos.....So Mr. Jindal, the people in the Northwest should not be warned in Mt St Helens or Mt Rainier is about to blow it's top????? Maybe they should also reduce the amount of money used to warn people about hurricanes.

I like Jindial. He is smart, an intellectual but he cannot be like the other politicians.
He does not have the "pittbull politicians attitude of screwing the public" and he deserves far more than what he is getting BUT sadly, he is playing the game I know he cannot win.

If he moves out of character, he can do the best for New Orleans. What I mean is that he is playing according to the script of the nice immigrant who speaks softly and doesn't want to offend and that is the MAIN PROBLEM. If his Republican buddies can insult McCain and his adopted daughter as they did some years ago then Jindial on the national scene will become a useless propaganda tool for his party. Better he break the mold and deal his personal strategy so he shines above the rest of his handlers!

[David Jamieson]

I like Jindial. He is smart, an intellectual but he cannot be like the other politicians.
He does not have the "pittbull politicians attitude of screwing the public" and he deserves far more than what he is getting BUT sadly, he is playing the game I know he cannot win.

If he moves out of character, he can do the best for New Orleans. What I mean is that he is playing according to the script of the nice immigrant who speaks softly and doesn't want to offend and that is the MAIN PROBLEM. If his Republican buddies can insult McCain and his adopted daughter as they did some years ago then Jindial on the national scene will become a useless propaganda tool for his party. Better he break the mold and deal his personal strategy so he shines above the rest of his handlers!

The republicans need to clean house anyway.

[1bad65]

The republicans need to clean house anyway.

They have been, to an extent. They have a new national chairman, they gave Jindal a national stage, and they introduced Palin recently. No sure on the new chairman, but Palin and Jindal are both very young, which is a change from the 'average' Republican politician.

[1bad65]

How do you guys who have been hammering Bush and the Republicans over war spending feel about this?

Obama seeks $200 billion for war spending

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Barack Obama will ask Congress for more than $200 billion to fund U.S. war efforts for the next year and a half, according to defense officials.

The request will be for $75.5 billion for the rest of the 2009 fiscal year to cover the cost of sending more troops to Afghanistan this year and additional $130 billion for 2010, according to the sources.

War spending for 2010 will be part of the president's overall defense funding request, which is expected to be announced Thursday.

The money will be in addition to $534 billion for the U.S. Defense Department's other expenditures, which the president is expected to request from Congress.

Congress gave the Pentagon $65.9 billion for the first half of fiscal 2009.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/26/war.spending/index.html

[uki]

Well thanks.you're quite welcome.

Good thing your OT discussion will effect everything as well. only if people let it.

tardi can see you are yet another one of the forums greatly disciplined and emotionally mature posters, i would not be suprised if you are also a master/sifu/sensei/student. :rolleyes:

back on topic a bit... i finally saw who the heck this jindal guy was... he does raises some good points about spending money on volcano warning systems to alert people and towns that live near an apparently active volcano... it should be one of those "LIVE HERE AT YOUR OWN RISK" kind of places, much like beach towns prone to tsunami's(hurricanes), other places in earthquake prone areas, or in tornado alley. you'd think mankind would smarten up after the ages come and go, but this does not seem to be happening. it doesn't make sense to dish out money to people when you can simply say... "duh". :)

[1bad65]

i finally saw who the heck this jindal guy was... is it just me or is he a bit goofy looking? i was a little suprised a man of a few shades darker actually made into the georgia political arena,...

Mr Jindal is the Governor of Louisiana.

[uki]

Mr Jindal is the Governor of Louisiana.my bad... too many articles in one morning boggles the mind. :p

more change is on the way folks...

more erosion of american sovereignty and rights? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/02/25/boxer-seeks-ratify-treaty-erode-rights/

a new assault weapons ban? http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=6960824&page=1 why is it okay for the police to have assault weapons and not the people? sounds like another encroaching dictatorship to disarm the public...

obviouly the lawmaker-lobbyist connections are not an important issue... http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/02/25/house-kills-effort-investigate-lobbyist-lawmaker-ties/

oops... missing nuclear materials, no biggie... http://gsn.nti.org/siteservices/print_friendly.php?ID=nw_20090224_7895

too much partying maybe?? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/27/business/27auto.html?_r=1

america is being dismantled right before our very eyes and right out from under our noses...

[David Jamieson]

america is being dismantled right before our very eyes and right out from under our noses...

America has been in a constant state of flux since it's inception.

what america is being dissassembled? Which america is it taht you are refering to?

1776 america that had slaves

1863 america that was in the midst of a civil war?

1935 america that endured the great depression?

1953 america that introduced superhighways and huge infrastructure?

1980 america that became a stock market giant through deregulation?

2002 america that became aware that it's foreign policies were really ticking people off around the world?

which america is it that is being taken apart before your very eyes and under your very noses?

which one? there is only one america, how would you like it served up to you? do you think your wants and needs supersede those of everyone else? because that's just un-american.

[Exadon]

which america is it that is being taken apart before your very eyes and under your very noses?



It seems only the America under Obama...everything else pre Obama was fine!

[SimonM]

America has been in a constant state of flux since it's inception.

what america is being dissassembled? Which america is it taht you are refering to?

1776 america that had slaves

1863 america that was in the midst of a civil war?

1935 america that endured the great depression?

1953 america that introduced superhighways and huge infrastructure?

1980 america that became a stock market giant through deregulation?

2002 america that became aware that it's foreign policies were really ticking people off around the world?

which america is it that is being taken apart before your very eyes and under your very noses?

which one? there is only one america, how would you like it served up to you? do you think your wants and needs supersede those of everyone else? because that's just un-american.

Well clearly it is the America that the illuminati want to de-unify in order to make way for the "world government"...

Or possibly it's the America that has a capital "founded with occult significance by masons".

Perhaps it's the anarchic America that has never existed other than in the pulp fiction of cowboys, hard-boiled detectives and star captains of the future.

[BoulderDawg]

It seems only the America under Obama...everything else pre Obama was fine!

No doubt. Before Obama everything in the United States was either right or in the process of being put right.......Now it looks like the country will be destroyed in a year...maybe two!:D

[uki]

Now it looks like the country will be destroyed in a year...maybe two!you're quite the optimist. :D

[David Jamieson]

uki-

you need to understand that more is occuring due to indifference and negligence as opposed to by the whims of a secret cabal.

the events of the day are often so organic in nature there is often no telling what will or will not happen. that's why theu have interpretors, pundits, forecasters etc etc etc.

People who sell real estate will say that now is the time to buy no matter what time it is.

There are people who sell stock that say taht now is the time to buy no matter what time it is.

There are politicians who will tell you that they will make change because that is what you want to hear according to all the surveys that have been fed to you.

If there are any cabals, they are likely discussing their next bake sale success or how to cover their own collective asses.

Police defending taser use, oil men defending tar sands and so on, even you tin foil hat wearers are all about you own agendas.

self interest should be added to indifference and negligence as far as the items that need to be looked at as problematic.

be careful what you wish for, you just might get it!

[SimonM]

Humans are as bad as the fictional vampires stopping to count grains of scattered rice sometimes. We see a system too large, too chaotic, and we want to bring structure to it.

Some do so by trying to break the system into manageable pieces and then attempt to apply reason to the pieces to determine if we can find the underlying structure of that part of the system.

Others attempt to address the system wholistically and frequently ignore vast inaccuracies between their wholistic theory and the actual mechanics of the small components of the system.

Still others are just bugfvck nuts.

[1bad65]

The scary thing is how quickly Obama is growing the size of government and giving the Executive branch more powers. That's scary. Even Robert Byrd, the long-serving liberal Democrat Senator, came out yesterday and said the power grabs by Obama are worrysome to him.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/19303.html

[uki]

uki-

you need to understand that more is occuring due to indifference and negligence as opposed to by the whims of a secret cabal.

the events of the day are often so organic in nature there is often no telling what will or will not happen. that's why theu have interpretors, pundits, forecasters etc etc etc.

People who sell real estate will say that now is the time to buy no matter what time it is.

There are people who sell stock that say taht now is the time to buy no matter what time it is.

There are politicians who will tell you that they will make change because that is what you want to hear according to all the surveys that have been fed to you.

If there are any cabals, they are likely discussing their next bake sale success or how to cover their own collective asses.

Police defending taser use, oil men defending tar sands and so on, even you tin foil hat wearers are all about you own agendas.

self interest should be added to indifference and negligence as far as the items that need to be looked at as problematic.

be careful what you wish for, you just might get it!no offense man, but you are about the most dimwitted, unintellectualized person i have ever seen grace any forum board anywhere... whatever spark of light you have is completely obscured by the darkness and doubts of your mind. :)

[BoulderDawg]

The scary thing is how quickly Obama is growing the size of government and giving the Executive branch more powers. That's scary. Even Robert Byrd, the long-serving liberal Democrat Senator, came out yesterday and said the power grabs by Obama are worrysome to him.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/19303.html


Yep! I'm really scared.......:D Maybe you should start a blog to warn everyone.

By the way, Bad You said that Obama was going to "Redistribute" the wealth. I keep asking and asking and you never tell me where I can go to pick up my check from the government.

[uki]

By the way, Bad You said that Obama was going to "Redistribute" the wealth. I keep asking and asking and you never tell me where I can go to pick up my check for the government.the wealth is only being redistributed among the wealthy.

[SimonM]

doubts of your mind. :)

Doubt can be a good thing as certainty does not equate to correctness.

[uki]

Doubt can be a good thing as certainty does not equate to correctness.true... but you must remember to moderate all things... all i see from that guy is complete doubt on just about everything that threatens his illusional security bubble.

[BoulderDawg]

Doubts are just human nature and cannot be changed...regrets and screw ups are another thing. Although Bush knew he had failed miserable he could never admit failure and take steps to try to correct his messes.


Had Bush just of said things from time to time like "This just isn't working, let's try something else" We might not be in the mess that we are currently in. I think the biggest thing was that Bush felt he was God's representative on earth and God spoke through him...of course God is never wrong!:D

[David Jamieson]

no offense man, but you are about the most dimwitted, unintellectualized person i have ever seen grace any forum board anywhere... whatever spark of light you have is completely obscured by the darkness and doubts of your mind. :)

your view is of course your own. :)

And furthermore, you are entitled to it! And frankly, you may keep it!
lol

dimwitted and unintellectualized (which isn't even a word by the way) would conform more with someone who believe that men are incapable of achieving great things and instead decide that it must be aliens who did it for us.

dimwitted is what people who look for fantastic answers to simple problems are.

dimwitted is akin to "crazy" because it amounts to doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

I don't expect you to change from further chastisement or admonishment for your foolishness and ridiculous postures on subjects that are not actually worth pursuing.

It's interesting to watch up close your particular brand of nonsense though. You're like the mini-rense of kfm.

no kungfu, ever, just blathering on and on about mystical mumbo jumbo and how dangerous the government is and so on and so forth.

bemusing! carry on! I love to point at your posts as an example for some of my acquaintances and we've had a few laughs at your expense, so it's only fair that you, your bush and your pile of bricks should have a laugh at mine. :)

[uki]

your view is of course your own.wow. you are a smart one i tell ya...

And furthermore, you are entitled to it! And frankly, you may keep it!i know i am entitled it and i like to share. perhaps the other folks here like it when i share my views... it doesn't matter if you do or not.

unintellectualized (which isn't even a word by the way)i like making my own words up... it's how language and communication evolves with the people.

dimwitted is what people who look for fantastic answers to simple problems are.actually it is a mentally slow person lacking wit... aka... stupid. :)

dimwitted is akin to "crazy" because it amounts to doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.don't you read the dictionary?

I don't expect you to change from further chastisement or admonishment for your foolishness and ridiculous postures on subjects that are not actually worth pursuing.amen brother.

It's interesting to watch up close your particular brand of nonsense though. i am sure you're not the only one.

You're like the mini-rense of kfm.sorry, but i don't read from rense.

no kungfu, ever, just blathering on and on about mystical mumbo jumbo and how dangerous the government is and so on and so forth.i come here to inter-react with other martial artists... of course i could lower myself to the level of pointless bickering over whose kicking technique is better, which training method is the best, or who can hold the horse stance the longest, but to me that is hardly worth the time or energy.

bemusing! carry on! I love to point at your posts as an example for some of my acquaintances and we've had a few laughs at your expense, so it's only fair that you, your bush and your pile of bricks should have a laugh at mine.single-handedly the best thing i have ever seen you post. :p

[1bad65]

By the way, Bad You said that Obama was going to "Redistribute" the wealth. I keep asking and asking and you never tell me where I can go to pick up my check from the government.

You're an idiot. Where did I say he was gonna do it by giving morons like you checks?

Like I said last time, ask Obama. HE SAID IT, not me. Log on to recovery.gov and ask. ;)

[1bad65]

Wouldn't dimwitted apply to someone who said the US puts people in prison for being poor?

[1bad65]

I looked it up for you. And it looks like you don't even have to pick the check up, they are gonna send it to you. ;)

"Barack Obama says he will give 95 percent of all American workers a tax cut but does not mention that his plan would send checks to tens of millions of tax filers who pay no personal income taxes - payments that critics say look "suspiciously like welfare."

Mr. Obama's campaign promise, which he has repeated in his speeches and in the presidential debates, stems from his "Making Work Pay" tax cut that will give a $500 refundable tax credit to every worker or $1,000 to each working couple. But because this provision in his economic-recovery plan is "refundable," a large number of middle- to lower-income workers who have no income-tax liability after taking tax credits and deductions the that Internal Revenue Service allows, will be given the equivalent of the tax cut in the form of direct payments from the U.S. Treasury - funded by higher-income taxpayers."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/13/obama-tax-cut-refunds-those-who-dont-pay/

[David Jamieson]

Wouldn't dimwitted apply to someone who said the US puts people in prison for being poor?

No, dimwitted would be misquoting something out of context and incorrectly in content as well. :)

[David Jamieson]

The scary thing is how quickly Obama is growing the size of government and giving the Executive branch more powers. That's scary. Even Robert Byrd, the long-serving liberal Democrat Senator, came out yesterday and said the power grabs by Obama are worrysome to him.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/19303.html

you are such a frickin retard.

lol

[SimonM]

Even former "exalted cyclops" of his local chapter of the Klu Klux Klan has a problem with the non-white president. Gee who could have seen that coming.

Robert Byrd said (in his youth) "I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side... Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds."

He claims to have seen the error of his ways.

But... the fact is... 1bad65 chose possibly the most-likely-to-be-racist senator in the Democrats and then said even he has a problem with obama.

Please David stop quoting that drivel! I don't want to have to bother with it.

[uki]

obama's budget spends an estimated $11,833 for every american...

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama forecast the biggest U.S. deficit since World War Two in a budget on Thursday that urges a costly overhaul of the healthcare system and would spend billions to arrest the economy's freefall.

An eye-popping $1.75 trillion deficit for the 2009 fiscal year underlined the heavy blow the deep recession has dealt to the country's finances as Obama unveiled his first budget. That is the highest ever in dollar terms, and amounts to a 12.3 percent share of the economy -- the largest since 1945. In 2010, the deficit would dip to a still-huge $1.17 trillion, Obama predicted.

With that backdrop, his budget represents a gamble that Americans are ready for the sort of change they embraced by electing him in November -- a shift of wealth through higher taxes on the rich to pay for more government attention to healthcare, education, climate change and social programs.



complete article... http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSTRE51O6JA20090226?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&rpc=23&sp=true

[Luk Hop]

Byrd endorses Obama

By Sam Youngman
Posted: 05/19/08 01:26 PM [ET]
Sen. Robert Byrd (D-W.Va.) announced Monday that he is supporting Democratic front-runner Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.) even though his state voted overwhelming in favor of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) last week.....

Calling Obama a “noble-hearted patriot and humble Christian,” Byrd cited his and Obama’s shared opposition to the Iraq war as one reason for his endorsement, and he said he waited to endorse after the West Virginia primary on purpose......

http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/byrd-endorses-obama-2008-05-19.html

:confused:

[BoulderDawg]

I don't really concern myself with things that happened 50-60 years ago. I'm more concerned with things that are happening right now. I've just read an article about the guy who is running a KKK/Skinhead style website. Anyway on the day after Obama was sworn in his site crashed because so many people were trying to sign up and since then he's been doing a brisk business.

Somehow I just have a feeling that the people who, all of a sudden, have created this new increase in hate group membership across the country did not vote for many liberal causes in the last election.

[uki]

skinheads and other forms of racist basturds can drop dead for all i care. :)

[1bad65]

You liberals never had a problem with Byrd when he was critical of Bush. :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

obama's budget spends an estimated $11,833 for every american...

And we don't even have to pay it back. Our children and grandchildren do.

[1bad65]

No, dimwitted would be misquoting something out of context and incorrectly in content as well. :)

Your words, not mine:

you also put them in jail for being in debt, being homeless and angry, for not supervising their teenagers, for looking too arabic etc etc.

[David Jamieson]

Your words, not mine:

as you can clearly friggin read, you freaking retard, that those are NOT th words.

what the **** is wrong with you anyway? do you come from a long line of retards? Is your whole family retarded like you?

sweet jebus.

Hey, I know, what say you do this retard, go back into that thread, then pull up the article I posted to give that context.
\
you, your mom, your dad and your pets are retarded.

f'ing tard.

[1bad65]

as you can clearly friggin read, you freaking retard, that those are NOT th words.

what the **** is wrong with you anyway? do you come from a long line of retards? Is your whole family retarded like you?

sweet jebus.

Hey, I know, what say you do this retard, go back into that thread, then pull up the article I posted to give that context.
\
you, your mom, your dad and your pets are retarded.

f'ing tard.

Wow; such a rational, on-topic reply. :rolleyes:

The article you posted to back up your argument was a guy who failed to pay $1 MILLION in taxes, hardly a poor person in debt. I can post it, but do you really want me to?

[1bad65]

as you can clearly friggin read, you freaking retard, that those are NOT th words.

So those were not your words?

Are you saying you didn't post that quote?

Did I just make it up?

[uki]

as you can clearly friggin read, you freaking retard, that those are NOT th words.

what the **** is wrong with you anyway? do you come from a long line of retards? Is your whole family retarded like you?

sweet jebus.

Hey, I know, what say you do this retard, go back into that thread, then pull up the article I posted to give that context.
\
you, your mom, your dad and your pets are retarded.

f'ing tard.it's nice to see you sink to the level of childish name calling... kudos... you truly are an enlightened soul and a disciplined martial artist. your true colors become more evident after each lame post you make. my 4 year old has more mental maturity than you do.

please do carry on. :)

[BoulderDawg]

You liberals never had a problem with Byrd when he was critical of Bush. :rolleyes:

Who said anything about Sen Byrd other than you? I don't see any other post that even mention his name.

As I said what happened 50-60 years is another time and place. I have no problem with the man. He's worked for racial equality and civil rights for the last 40 years.

I'm more concerned with the here and now and all of the Neos signing up for the new version of the KKK.

[BoulderDawg]

The war in Iraq: Well, of course, he's better than the alternative but Obama really screws the pooch when it comes to Iraq.

He want's to take 19 months to get those troops out? :confused: F that, If I was President they would be out in 19 days.

Also, he wants to leave 50K troops there??????? simply disgraceful.

It's time we got out of the middle east and let them run their own affairs. This includes Afganistan. It's simply time to get out of there.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The war in Iraq: Well, of course, he's better than the alternative but Obama really screws the pooch when it comes to Iraq.

He want's to take 19 months to get those troops out? :confused: F that, If I was President they would be out in 19 days.

Also, he wants to leave 50K troops there??????? simply disgraceful.

It's time we got out of the middle east and let them run their own affairs. This includes Afganistan. It's simply time to get out of there.

Do you know how long it takes to move and reasign those many troops?
19 months is a tad optimistic to be truthful.

[BoulderDawg]

Do you know how long it takes to move and reasign those many troops?
19 months is a tad optimistic to be truthful.

I know what the conservative war machine wants you to believe. Truthfully all they have to do is say stop what you are doing, go to your barrack/tent/where ever you sleep, grab a duffel and you are outta here. They could easily transport 20-30k troops a day out of Iraq.

They didn't seem to have much trouble getting out of Vietnam in 1974.

[Reality_Check]

I looked it up for you. And it looks like you don't even have to pick the check up, they are gonna send it to you. ;)

"Barack Obama says he will give 95 percent of all American workers a tax cut but does not mention that his plan would send checks to tens of millions of tax filers who pay no personal income taxes - payments that critics say look "suspiciously like welfare."

Mr. Obama's campaign promise, which he has repeated in his speeches and in the presidential debates, stems from his "Making Work Pay" tax cut that will give a $500 refundable tax credit to every worker or $1,000 to each working couple. But because this provision in his economic-recovery plan is "refundable," a large number of middle- to lower-income workers who have no income-tax liability after taking tax credits and deductions the that Internal Revenue Service allows, will be given the equivalent of the tax cut in the form of direct payments from the U.S. Treasury - funded by higher-income taxpayers."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/13/obama-tax-cut-refunds-those-who-dont-pay/

As much as I tried to stay away...

Your article says nothing about payroll taxes, which make up the majority of the middle class tax burden. It's also dated October 13, 2008

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=882634&postcount=794



I'm referring to income taxes. They are BY FAR the largest percentage of taxes the middle class pays.

Actually, no (page 19, Chart 5)....

http://www.kc.frb.org/PUBLICAT/ECONREV/PDF/4q06davig.pdf

From my link: "Since payroll taxes are paid only up to a certain amount of income, payroll taxes comprise a larger share of the tax liability for low- and middle-income households versus high-income households. Mitrusi and Poterba (2000) estimated that payroll taxes were higher than federal income taxes for 44 percent of all U.S. households in 1979, and that percentage increased to 67 percent in 1999."

Have you looked at the actual stimulus bill?

Enjoy (tax package): http://www.rules.house.gov/111/LegText/hr1_legtext_cr.pdf

Here is a summary of the tax plan for individuals: http://projects.nytimes.com/44th_president/stimulus/tax-cuts-for-individuals

Please see this article regarding the "Making Work Pay" credit: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/02/23/BU071634SD.DTL&type=business

I see nothing about mailing checks out.

[Wildwoo]

you're quite welcome.
only if people let it.
i can see you are yet another one of the forums greatly disciplined and emotionally mature posters, i would not be suprised if you are also a master/sifu/sensei/student. :rolleyes:

back on topic a bit... i finally saw who the heck this jindal guy was... he does raises some good points about spending money on volcano warning systems to alert people and towns that live near an apparently active volcano... it should be one of those "LIVE HERE AT YOUR OWN RISK" kind of places, much like beach towns prone to tsunami's(hurricanes), other places in earthquake prone areas, or in tornado alley. you'd think mankind would smarten up after the ages come and go, but this does not seem to be happening. it doesn't make sense to dish out money to people when you can simply say... "duh". :)

You started with the einstein remark you sarcastic little donkey dropping & I did not even address or quote you so let me say this so you'll loose the need to speculate on what type of person I am when I say phuq Uki.:p Are we clear now Mr. MF?:rolleyes: I know I'm clever so please save your applause for your up and coming lame azzed rebuttal.
This is a kung fu forum no matter how OT this thread might be, you might get off of your fat lazy azz and practice some fu once in a while instead of running off at the keyboard about the inner workings of a government that you a.) really know nothing about.

(none of us do especially those of you that think you do! That it why it is called GOVERNMENT) &

b.) have absolutely no control over no matter the illusion of voter's power. The same gang is running the show as it ever was it just has a different face. Many may like it and many will not, but behind the scenes the same gears get turned by the same mechanism as the last time around no matter the new paint job on the old facade. Plus you buy what your're told, speak how you're told and just plain do what you're told. The advent of Television /mass media/ internet destroyed the electoral process and along with that free thinking. All you sheep should give a collective Baaaaaaaaaaaa!! IMHO People who dwell on politics are just whiners so whine on you crazy diamonds.

As you were:D

phuq Uki.

[BoulderDawg]

I see nothing about mailing checks out.

What? Bad lied.......Par for the course!:D

[Lokhopkuen]

You started with the einstein remark you sarcastic little donkey dropping & I did not even address or quote you so let me say this so you'll loose the need to speculate on what type of person I am when I say phuq Uki.:p Are we clear now Mr. MF?:rolleyes: I know I'm clever so please save your applause for your up and coming lame azzed rebuttal.
This is a kung fu forum no matter how OT this thread might be, you might get off of your fat lazy azz and practice some fu once in a while instead of running off at the keyboard about the inner workings of a government that you a.) really know nothing about.

(none of us do especially those of you that think you do! That it why it is called GOVERNMENT) &

b.) have absolutely no control over no matter the illusion of voter's power. The same gang is running the show as it ever was it just has a different face. Many may like it and many will not, but behind the scenes the same gears get turned by the same mechanism as the last time around no matter the new paint job on the old facade. Plus you buy what your're told, speak how you're told and just plain do what you're told. The advent of Television /mass media/ internet destroyed the electoral process and along with that free thinking. All you sheep should give a collective Baaaaaaaaaaaa!! IMHO People who dwell on politics are just whiners so whine on you crazy diamonds.

As you were:D

phuq Uki.

U've no class but then again the apple never falls far from tree...

[uki]

You started with the einstein remark you sarcastic little donkey dropping & I did not even address or quote you so let me say this so you'll loose the need to speculate on what type of person I am when I say phuq Uki. Are we clear now Mr. MF?not really. i could give a rats arse as to what type of person you are or aren't, because so far you are most like the other immature and emotionally defunct posters on the boards... lacking style or wit. :)

I know I'm clever so please save your applause for your up and coming lame azzed rebuttal.there's no flattery like self-flattery.

This is a kung fu forum no matter how OT this thread might be, you might get off of your fat lazy azz and practice some fu once in a while instead of running off at the keyboard about the inner workings of a government that youi'm laid off for the winter so i have ample time to post here until spring... as for kung fu, i believe i am doing just fine exerting my time and energy toying with the likes of people such as you.

a.) really know nothing about.speak for yourself.

(none of us do especially those of you that think you do! That it why it is called GOVERNMENT)deep man... deep. :rolleyes:

b.) have absolutely no control over no matter the illusion of voter's power.ok i'll agree with you here... voting is an illusion.

The same gang is running the show as it ever was it just has a different face. Many may like it and many will not, but behind the scenes the same gears get turned by the same mechanism as the last time around no matter the new paint job on the old facade. Plus you buy what your're told, speak how you're told and just plain do what you're told. The advent of Television /mass media/ internet destroyed the electoral process and along with that free thinking.nice. if only more people would see it this way.

All you sheep should give a collective Baaaaaaaaaaaa!! IMHO People who dwell on politics are just whiners so whine on you crazy diamonds.but politics is such a given when it comes to getting people all worked up... isn't it? :D

As you were.yes sir. roger roger.

phuq Uki.yo G homie, this ain't compton ave. :p
U've no class but then again the apple never falls far from tree...honestly i think it got stuck in the branches and is fermenting as we post. :D

[Lokhopkuen]

not really. i could give a rats arse as to what type of person you are or aren't, because so far you are most like the other immature and emotionally defunct posters on the boards... lacking style or wit. :)
there's no flattery like self-flattery.
i'm laid off for the winter so i have ample time to post here until spring... as for kung fu, i believe i am doing just fine exerting my time and energy toying with the likes of people such as you.
speak for yourself.
deep man... deep. :rolleyes:
ok i'll agree with you here... voting is an illusion.
nice. if only more people would see it this way.
but politics is such a given when it comes to getting people all worked up... isn't it? :D
yes sir. roger roger.

yo G homie, this ain't compton ave. :p
honestly i think it got stuck in the branches and is fermenting as we post. :D

I don't think he was properly weened. I'll Phuq him up for you for a nominal fee:cool:

[Wildwoo]

not really. i could give a rats arse as to what type of person you are or aren't, because so far you are most like the other immature and emotionally defunct posters on the boards... lacking style or wit. :)
there's no flattery like self-flattery.
i'm laid off for the winter so i have ample time to post here until spring... as for kung fu, i believe i am doing just fine exerting my time and energy toying with the likes of people such as you.
speak for yourself.
deep man... deep. :rolleyes:
ok i'll agree with you here... voting is an illusion.
nice. if only more people would see it this way.
but politics is such a given when it comes to getting people all worked up... isn't it? :D
yes sir. roger roger.

yo G homie, this ain't compton ave. :p
honestly i think it got stuck in the branches and is fermenting as we post. :D

Look who's talking about maturity?

[uki]

I don't think he was properly weened.i wonder if he was even breast fed?
I'll Phuq him up for you for a nominal fee.nah... i'm having much more fun lumping him up on the forums. we don't want to completely break him. :D

[uki]

Look who's talking about maturity?are you asking yourself a question?

[Lokhopkuen]

You can tell how much i pay attention to politics i didn't even know we were in recession until I noticed all my students were missing.:confused:

I began to check the news only because I thought there was a giant Ogre about eating random peoples.

I Can't even afford to go grocery shopping these days!!

I've got my eye on a couple of fat peoples here in the hood, a neighbor's Bull Mastiff (barks a lot, got my attention) and a Saint Bernard I've seen walked down the block (trying to find where he is warehoused he he he!) all as potential protein sources in a pinch since I'm so broke!!
:eek::eek::eek:

[1bad65]

Who said anything about Sen Byrd other than you? I don't see any other post that even mention his name.

Robert Byrd said (in his youth) "I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side... Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds."


I see nothing about mailing checks out.

"Barack Obama says he will give 95 percent of all American workers a tax cut but does not mention that his plan would send checks to tens of millions of tax filers who pay no personal income taxes - payments that critics say look "suspiciously like welfare."

And from the article I linked to:

"What he's really talking about doing is mailing a check, and to me, that looks more like a welfare program than the kind of real tax relief that would encourage work, savings and investments," Mr. Kerpen said.

[1bad65]

Your article says nothing about payroll taxes, which make up the majority of the middle class tax burden. It's also dated October 13, 2008

Reading comprehension is your friend.

He asked when Obama was going to 'spread the wealth around', and when he could pick up his check. The article I linked to answered both of his questions.

[1bad65]

I know what the conservative war machine wants you to believe. Truthfully all they have to do is say stop what you are doing, go to your barrack/tent/where ever you sleep, grab a duffel and you are outta here. They could easily transport 20-30k troops a day out of Iraq.

You guys with military service have no idea how the military works. Of course a guy in Boulder, Colorado who has never even served knows more about how the military functions than you guys do. :rolleyes:

[uki]

this might be just the change we are looking for... so far it seems to be the only good change brought about by this person playing president. :D

obama orders the fed's to stop medical marijuana raids... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29433708/

[Luk Hop]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29433708/

“What the president said during the campaign ... will be consistent with what we will be doing here in law enforcement,” he said. “What (Obama) said during the campaign ... is now American policy.”

[uki]

i wanna say that you owe me a beer here luk hop... :p

[1bad65]

this might be just the change we are looking for... so far it seems to be the only good change brought about by this person playing president. :D

obama orders the fed's to stop medical marijuana raids... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29433708/

I agree with Obama on this one.

[uki]

I agree with Obama on this one.most honest people would. marijuana is not harmful for you in moderation, wether to relieve pain or for recreational purposes...

[Luk Hop]

i wanna say that you owe me a beer here luk hop... :p


;) .

[Luk Hop]

I agree with Obama on this one.

Does this mean that your blood is beginning to run a little blue?:D

[1bad65]

Does this mean that your blood is beginning to run a little blue?:D

Not hardly. ;)

I'm more of a Libertarian/Constitutionalist.

[Drake]

You guys with military service have no idea how the military works. Of course a guy in Boulder, Colorado who has never even served knows more about how the military functions than you guys do. :rolleyes:

Yeah, he's pretty clueless. Some of my logistician peers would be laughing their asses off at that one. Even when we are back, it still takes MONTHS to get everything staight, not to mention the nightmare of getting everything through customs, packing, blocking/bracing, load plans, AIR load plans (ever try to balance a tank on a plane? One wrong click and you get instant nosedive.), movement to tent city after tent city, outprocssing in Kuwait, inprocessing back at home station, inventories.

I haven't even gotten to the actual handoff of facilities. That's a nightmare too.

This ranks up there with that one guy trying to tell me how my oath works.

[Drake]

And honestly, 1Bad, some of these guys could tell me something completely true, and I'd STILL have trouble believing them, because their credibility is so shot.

[1bad65]

And honestly, 1Bad, some of these guys could tell me something completely true, and I'd STILL have trouble believing them, because their credibility is so shot.

When they tell you the sky is blue, you have to look up to make sure. ;)

[uki]

When they tell you the sky is blue, you have to look up to make sure.and then one can still argue over which shade of blue it is.

[Reality_Check]

And from the article I linked to:

"What he's really talking about doing is mailing a check, and to me, that looks more like a welfare program than the kind of real tax relief that would encourage work, savings and investments," Mr. Kerpen said.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

He asked when Obama was going to 'spread the wealth around', and when he could pick up his check. The article I linked to answered both of his questions.

As I noted in my post, your article was from October 13, 2008. 4 and a half months ago; before President Obama was elected, and well before the stimulus bill was written.

I would like to know where in the stimulus bill it says that President Obama's administration will do what that article claimed it would do. If it doesn't, then your 4 1/2 month old hypothetical article doesn't mean anything. Nor would it answer BoulderDawg's question; since reality would trump a 4 1/2 month old hypothetical.

[BoulderDawg]

Reading comprehension is your friend.

He asked when Obama was going to 'spread the wealth around', and when he could pick up his check. The article I linked to answered both of his questions.

How could any article that was written even before the election tell me about policy? It still doesn't tell me where to go to get my check and I sure as hell haven't received any in the mail.

[uki]

here's some helpful info for those with too much time on their hands... hopefully it will be read by more citizens than it was by those in the government.

summarized text of the stimulus bill... http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/SenateStimSummary.pdf

full text can be found here... http://appropriations.house.gov/

[BoulderDawg]

You guys with military service have no idea how the military works. Of course a guy in Boulder, Colorado who has never even served knows more about how the military functions than you guys do. :rolleyes:

I don't know and don't care. All I know is my tax dollars are paying for it at the tune of 12 billion a month. According to the news there is only 142,000 troops over there.(By the way that's 84K a month for each troop)

There are college football games that have over a 100K in attendance and they move those people in and out in one day. I think 19 days is plenty of time. If they want to leave a couple of thousand for a few months to gather up the equipment then fine.

But, of course, leave it to some Neo to tell you that something cannot be done.

Also, Bad you love the war so much why don't you go over there. I'm sure your friends, the Iraqis, would be glad to have you. However do it on your own dime.

[uki]

another way to discourage family ties and create delinquent and neglected children... social brainwashing seems to be shifting gears.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/27/education.school.year/index.html

more change we can believe in. :rolleyes:

[Luk Hop]

another way to discourage family ties and create delinquent and neglected children... social brainwashing seems to be shifting gears.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/27/education.school.year/index.html

more change we can believe in. :rolleyes:

I had to laugh when during Obama's speech to the Joint Session of Congress he actually appealed to Ted Kennedy to send more legislation for education reform that he could then sign into law. People blame Bush for enacting NCLB, but Kennedy was the initial politician behind it. Another program on a long list of preceding failures.