OT: does obama bring change?

[sanjuro_ronin]

The "death" of the old GM is not a surprise nor is it a "bad" thing, it is a necessity.
GM MUST restructure, it must purge and it must do it from the ground up INCLUDING the upper echeleons.
Line workers must make competitive wages, sales must be the priority, innovation and competetiveness must be the focus.
GM must see the future as NOW, not later.

[David Jamieson]

The "death" of the old GM is not a surprise nor is it a "bad" thing, it is a necessity.
GM MUST restructure, it must purge and it must do it from the ground up INCLUDING the upper echeleons.
Line workers must make competitive wages, sales must be the priority, innovation and competetiveness must be the focus.
GM must see the future as NOW, not later.

That's all well and good and true, but I would prefer they didn't do it on the public's dime.

how are any of us going to benefit from this purchase at all?

we aren't. IN fact they are going to continue pouring money in and closing plants and dealerships. Especially in countries outside the US.

a 12% share of nothing is still nothing and it cost us billions in tax dollars.

Not pleased with either Harper or Obama in regards to this scheme.

[sanjuro_ronin]

That's all well and good and true, but I would prefer they didn't do it on the public's dime.

how are any of us going to benefit from this purchase at all?

we aren't. IN fact they are going to continue pouring money in and closing plants and dealerships. Especially in countries outside the US.

a 12% share of nothing is still nothing and it cost us billions in tax dollars.

Not pleased with either Harper or Obama in regards to this scheme.

Government giving them money is the worse possible thing they can do, even more so since its NOT the governments money but OUR money and I don't recall being consulted, do you?

[Drake]

Would you still be upset if I resumed calling him 'Comrade'? ;)

Yes, and it has nothing to do with Pres. Obama.

[1bad65]

That's all well and good and true, but I would prefer they didn't do it on the public's dime.

how are any of us going to benefit from this purchase at all?

we aren't. IN fact they are going to continue pouring money in and closing plants and dealerships. Especially in countries outside the US.

a 12% share of nothing is still nothing and it cost us billions in tax dollars.

Not pleased with either Harper or Obama in regards to this scheme.

Thank you.

Again, no one has shown me where the Constitution says it's the Federal Government's job to bailout private industry.

Nor have they shown me why the President dictated the terms, rather than a bankruptcy judge.

[1bad65]

Yes, and it has nothing to do with Pres. Obama.

Notice I winked. ;)

I gave you my word I wouldn't do it in your presence. I'm alot of things, but I'm not a liar.

[1bad65]

Government giving them money is the worse possible thing they can do, even more so since its NOT the governments money but OUR money and I don't recall being consulted, do you?

When those people who voted for this were voted in by the people, that's when they consulted the people. :rolleyes:

Remember this when you vote next time. That's when it's your turn to voice YOUR opinion.

[KC Elbows]

Interesting view on Christianity.

Is it? Although the core of Jesus' teachings do not include this, the cornerstone of Christianity is that accepting Jesus under the new covenant is the only route to heaven, and "denial" of this has evil as its motivation. This means those opting not to be Christians are, according to the Bible, written within numerous times, evil.

That said, many Christians do not hold such a hard line position, but they remain reticent in being capable of reforming the inherent "us-them" dynamic this creates. The vast majority of Christians for gay rights take a duplicitous position by being incapable of removing what they hold is not central to Jesus' teachings from the Bible. Those saying "all religions are worshiping the same thing" fail to grasp that similar moral codes do not equate to "buddhists want to go to heaven"(a falsehood of the highest degree, heavens are seen as a failure to reach nirvana in much the same way as hells), etc.

Christians should be held accountable for this, just as atheists should be held responsible to provide a greater charity to their society than simply defying an old orthodoxy.

anyway...

As to Obama and Mao comparisons, this is a gross misrepresentation. I can understand not liking the idea of nationalization of industry, but Stalin and Mao and their ilk forcibly and violently seized industry. In Obama's case, failed corporations, unwilling to accept the dictum of free trade that says they should be allowed to fail from their own inefficiencies, have chosen, if begrudgingly, to be complicit in the process. As has the country itself, if begrudgingly.

Additionally, the very fact that there are industries that an economy cannot afford to let go down strongly suggests that the utopian ideal of true free markets is a fantasy. A close look at the world's most economically powerful countries strongly suggests that a free market-socialist range much like the right-left/conservative-liberal dynamic in politics, is favorable to either aspect becoming the dominant ideology. In every case that comes to mind, in virtually every cold war victory on either side, the extreme nature of the fight meant that defeat of one side required the other side to exhaust their political clout in the eyes of the people. Central America is a great example of this: our contra wars validated the left in the region, CIA efforts in Guatemala and El Salvador trumped the communists, but validated the left in the long run, McCarthy's efforts purged much of society only to validate the left in the long run, Mao's efforts validated Deng(the "capitalist roader"), Stalin validated Kruschef who validated, etc., etc., ultimately validating free trade in Russia, followed by corruption that validated some nationalization, just as our embargo and failed assassination attempts have validated Castro.

Reality clearly falls between these extreme positions, not on them. As long as the free trade nuts fail to address the historical trend that follows success with gluttony, and as long as the far left fails to grasp that nationalization can easily become perpetual if the people behind it merely want to be the new power, they will each always justify the other in the end.

Modern nations will always see that the easiest way to throw off foreign influence or an out of control upper class and reset is communism, and that communism as anything more than a transitional form is crap. Since there has never been either a pure state of free trade, or a pure state of communism, much less a pure state of democracy or a pure state of any of these ideals, the only reason there is use in picking a side is the presence of the other side, not the reality on the ground.

[sanjuro_ronin]

When those people who voted for this were voted in by the people, that's when they consulted the people. :rolleyes:

Remember this when you vote next time. That's when it's your turn to voice YOUR opinion.

Actually, when a government decides to use the money of the people in a way that is above and beyond what it normally does, as in the case of giving out billions in bailouts, then a national vote should be in order, after all, I don't recall that Obama or PM Harper were elected on the promise of giving money to SELECTED businesses that have nothing to do with the government.
Its not as if they are giving out money or making money available to ALL businesses that are in financial trouble.

[BoulderDawg]

Animal Farm was written about socialism/communism. The parallels are plain as day.

Animal Farm had nothing to do with socialism/communisn. It was all about corruption of power no matter the philosophy.

In fact given the quote from the book "All animals are created equal but some are more equal than others" is more in line with the daily lives of Americans before the civil rights era.

[BoulderDawg]

When those people who voted for this were voted in by the people, that's when they consulted the people. :rolleyes:

Remember this when you vote next time. That's when it's your turn to voice YOUR opinion.


Yes remember next time you vote.

Remember what years of Neo philisophy in Washington got us. A economy that's in the worst shape as any since the great depression, most of the world hating America and thousands death in a war that was based on misinformation.

Obama will make mistakes....no question. But when it comes to going back to what we had........I don't think the American people are that stupid.

[KC Elbows]

The neos are a weird bunch. Far righters who run their party like a communist party, and have the view that the party decides for the people, provides a justification for the people that is separate from their own views, and loves double speak.

[BoulderDawg]

The neos are a weird bunch. Far righters who run their party like a communist party, and have the view that the party decides for the people, provides a justification for the people that is separate from their own views, and loves double speak.

If the neos had their complete way there would be absolutely no government control of any business. There would be no USDA, no SEC/FDIA...nothing like that. You would eat food at your own risk. You would put money in the bank at your own risk.

The separation for state and religion would be ignored if not outright abolished from the Constitution.

Half the planet would be destroyed because of nuclear war while the other half would be polluted because there would be nothing to prevent it.

There would be no laws to protect the workers. The average American salary would be under 5K a year. You would take your life in your hands by working in unsafe conditions and you would be working along side 10 and 11 year old kids.

These are just a few of the things we would have if the Neos rans things exactly how they wanted to.

No Thanks

[1bad65]

The neos are a weird bunch. Far righters who run their party like a communist party, and have the view that the party decides for the people, provides a justification for the people that is separate from their own views, and loves double speak.

Can you show us some examples please?

Last I checked, far right guys are the ones wanting to shrink Government's power and give back to the people. Ie, Ron Paul.

[1bad65]

Orwell himself wrote about this: (Bold emphasis mine)

"Dear Mr Gollancz,

I have just finished a book [Animal Farm] and the typing will be completed in a few days. You have the first refusal of my fiction books, and I think this comes under the heading of fiction. It is a little fairy story, about 30,000 words, with a political meaning. But I must tell you that it is—I think—completely unacceptable politically from your point of view (it is anti-Stalin). I don't know whether in that case you will want to see it. If you do, of course I will send it along, but the point is that I am not anxious, naturally, for the MS to be hanging about too long. If you think that you would like to have a look at it, in spite of its not being politically O.K., could you let either me or my agent (Christy & Moore) know? Moore will have the MS. Otherwise, could you let me know that you don't want to see it, so that I can take it elsewhere without wasting time?

Yours sincerely
[Signed] Eric Blair"

Eric Blair was George Orwell's real name.

http://www.netcharles.com/orwell/articles/letters-agent-af.htm

[Yao Sing]

Yep, civilization would come to an end if we didn't have big mommy government there to protect us.

These doom and gloom scenerios never seem to pan out though for some reason. Like the shootouts in the streets over minor traffic squabbles after Florida allowed concealed carry.

[1bad65]

...I don't recall that Obama or PM Harper were elected on the promise of giving money to SELECTED businesses that have nothing to do with the government.
Its not as if they are giving out money or making money available to ALL businesses that are in financial trouble.

I completely agre. Notice he didn't run around and campaign on this.

But hey, people like me warned of this. We kept asking the morons who thought this guy had all the answers to site what he planned to do specifically. The only answers we got were 'Hope' and 'Change'.

Hopefully the 2010 Congressional elections will be like the 1994 elections.

[KC Elbows]

Can you show us some examples please?

Last I checked, far right guys are the ones wanting to shrink Government's power and give back to the people. Ie, Ron Paul.

I said they run their party like communists, which is absolutely true. Running a political party is not the same discussion as what their party platforms are.

Since neoconservatism's roots are inextricably related to Trotsky, it is quite natural that their approaches toward party politics would resemble each other.

As for providing different justifications to the people than are the genuine ones, I'll quote the founder of neoconservatism:

""There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn't work."

WMD anyone? Iraq instigating 9-11 anyone?

[1bad65]

I said they run their party like communists, which is absolutely true. Running a political party is not the same discussion as what their party platforms are.

Since neoconservatism's roots are inextricably related to Trotsky, it is quite natural that their approaches toward party politics would resemble each other.

As for providing different justifications to the people than are the genuine ones, I'll quote the founder of neoconservatism:

""There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn't work."

WMD anyone? Iraq instigating 9-11 anyone?

If that's what a "neocon" is, then neither Republicans, or the Libertarians fit that label. Common sense says Trotsky and someone like Reagan are at opposite ends of the political spectrum.

Who said that quote? Let me guess, not a Republican...

[KC Elbows]

If that's what a "neocon" is, then neither Republicans, or the Libertarians fit that label. Common sense says Trotsky and someone like Reagan are at opposite ends of the political spectrum.

Again, you are arguing something completely different. What end of the political spectrum one is and how one approaches influence within their party are separate discussions. It is absolutely and historically an apt description of the roots and influences of neoconservatism, in which trotskyites play a major role, whether you know this or not. It is neither hidden from view or contested by the neocons themselves.

Who said that quote? Let me guess, not a Republican...

The founder of neoconservatism said it. Past that, that is not a truth appropriate to 1bad65.;):D:p

[BoulderDawg]

Orwell himself wrote about this: (Bold emphasis mine)

"Dear Mr Gollancz,

I have just finished a book [Animal Farm] and the typing will be completed in a few days. You have the first refusal of my fiction books, and I think this comes under the heading of fiction. It is a little fairy story, about 30,000 words, with a political meaning. But I must tell you that it is—I think—completely unacceptable politically from your point of view (it is anti-Stalin). I don't know whether in that case you will want to see it. If you do, of course I will send it along, but the point is that I am not anxious, naturally, for the MS to be hanging about too long. If you think that you would like to have a look at it, in spite of its not being politically O.K., could you let either me or my agent (Christy & Moore) know? Moore will have the MS. Otherwise, could you let me know that you don't want to see it, so that I can take it elsewhere without wasting time?

Yours sincerely
[Signed] Eric Blair"

Eric Blair was George Orwell's real name.

Where's the part in there about communism?

I see Stalin mentioned but, of course, that fits in with my view that the books is about corruption of power more than any philosophy.

[KC Elbows]

Where's the part in there about communism?

I see Stalin mentioned but, of course, that fits in with my view that the books is about corruption of power more than any philosophy.

Wasn't Orwell the one who said the history of the human race was a boot stomping on people, endlessly?

[BoulderDawg]

Terrorist attack in France?

One Air France Plane plane is missing over the Atlantis and they've just announce they are closing the Paris airport because of possibly bombs in the terminal.

Where's Cheney? He wouldn't be passing through Paris today would he?:D

[David Jamieson]

Terrorist attack in France?

One Air France Plane plane is missing over the Atlantis and they've just announce they are closing the Paris airport because of possibly bombs in the terminal.

Where's Cheney? He wouldn't be passing through Paris today would he?:D

where you getting that information from?

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/06/01/air-france-plane-atlantic001.html

[Drake]

I think 1Bad mentioned this before, but did GM even legally have the right to accept a bailout from the gov't?

But I agree... the republican party does not represent the every day conservative in any way, really. They've gone so far out into left field that they don't even know who they are anymore. I'm thinking a new party will be coming into prominence over the next couple of decades, as former republicans begin looking for a party that really represents what they are wanting.

And as for the dems... they'll sink or swim based on what Pres. Obama does.

[BoulderDawg]

But I agree... the republican party does not represent the every day conservative in any way, really. They've gone so far out into left field that they don't even know who they are anymore.

That's a laugh!:D The GOP is so leftist now............

I guess that swings my philosophy so far around that I am now right wing!:eek:

[1bad65]

I think 1Bad mentioned this before, but did GM even legally have the right to accept a bailout from the gov't?

According to the 10th Amendment, it looks like the Federal Government never had the right to even give the money.

But I agree... the republican party does not represent the every day conservative in any way, really. They've gone so far out into left field that they don't even know who they are anymore. I'm thinking a new party will be coming into prominence over the next couple of decades, as former republicans begin looking for a party that really represents what they are wanting.

And as for the dems... they'll sink or swim based on what Pres. Obama does.

Love him or hate him, Rush is right about the Republican Party. If they want to run as Democrat Light, they are history. They won the biggest when Reagan was the standard bearer, and again in '94 with the Contract With America. And during those times they came out swinging and opposed the Democrats on about every issue.

And sadly, we may ALL sink or swim based on what he does. :eek: And his track record so far is ZERO.

[1bad65]

Wasn't Orwell the one who said the history of the human race was a boot stomping on people, endlessly?

Orwell was actually a leftist, at least for a time. But he saw the evils of socialism/communism and wrote about them. Namely with the book Animal Farm.

Ironically, he wrote that book in the late 30s-early 40s. Yet it fit what happened in Cuba in the 1960s to a T.

Only an idiot could read it, and read what Orwell himself wrote/said about the book, and deny it was about the evils of socialism/communism.

[BoulderDawg]

If you remember the story (Personally I have my doubts as if you have even read the book) the commune style government was working just fine until power and corruption entered the picture.

If anything Animal Farms shows that socialistic type government could work with cooperation. Of course there are no absolutes. No goverment could be structly capitalist/communist or whatever.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I always though the lesson in Animal farm was how "absolute power corrupts absolutley".
Then again I must have been 10 when I saw it...

[KC Elbows]

Works of fiction tend to make comments about society in broad ways. I doubt Orwell would have argued much against a reading that suggested the dangers of communist systems, or a reading about the nature of power, or a reading that was more specific to Stalin. I also doubt he would have argued against readings applied to any tyranny of any political bent.

Again, the quote I was trying to remember about the history of the human race suggests that he saw tyranny in broader terms than just communism.

[1bad65]

Orwell did write it was "anti-Stalin". In the letter to the publisher I posted earlier. Those are his words, not mine.

However, the story did hit the nail one head in relation to socialism/communism. Especially in the way the leaders exempt themselves from the 'being equal' part.

Just look at Obama. He just signed into law new CAFE standards. He raised the standard from 27.5mpg to 35.5mpg for passenger cars. But what car did he drive for his own personal use? Answer, a HEMI-powered Chryler 300C. The mpg for a Chrysler 300C is 15mpg/city and 23mpg/highway.

Like I predicted, when we are all FORCED to drive these SmartCar-like deathtraps, people like him will be allowed to drive whatever he pleases. Is that fair?

[Luk Hop]

Animal Farm is a masterpiece. Aside from what may have been the original intentions of the book there are many different levels of society that are on display. Although it is easily apparent to see that it deals with socialism and its transition to a command economy, there are also parts that can be said to show the evils of capitalism.

Unfortunately I fear the apparent.

[BoulderDawg]

However, the story did hit the nail one head in relation to socialism/communism. Especially in the way the leaders exempt themselves from the 'being equal' part.

Total BS......show me anywhere in socialistic or communistic philosophy where it say that leaders are not equal.

[David Jamieson]

Why do people insist that the man at 30 is the same man at 40?

That is not true at all.

!bad, I recommend you watch the documentary "who killed the electric car".

the japanese are producing 42 mpg vehicles that have as good or better safety standards than anything produced by the big 3 in detroit.

why use scare phrases like "death trap" and such

smart cars are mercedes by the way.
and gas guzzlers are for the most part major POS.

whereas reliable and low consuming vehicles maintain high resale value and are not a pita for repairs etc etc.

Why resist progress?

the only issue I have is that the government should not be involved in private industry. It should live or die at the hands of it's investors or lack of them period.

if people lose their jobs because their industry is useless, then I am certain that they aren't so stupid that they can't pull their collective socks up and do a career change.

I've done it, i'm sure others have done it.

it's ridiculous to argue the merits of waste and decadence. that's what started this problem to begin with. A stupid credit system society that encouraged people to live beyond their means, that perpetuated irrational exuberance as Greenspan put it, which in turn led to a whole lot of pigs in pokes being sold that nearly collapsed the world markets entirely.

now it's gonna take about a decade for the economy of the USA to get healthy again and for what? A few fat ass wall streeters to continue to live in lavish wealth while 45% of the US goes without decent health insurance? Kid's can't get a decent meal in them, drop out rates go higher because of it and so on and so forth.

is capitalism really worth that much? Because it is a separate animal from democracy you know. It is a construct that needs to have regulations. the laissez faire version of capitalism doesn't work. we are living in the proof of that.

as for the original query of this post, apparently Obama Does bring change. That, there is no denying now is there.

[Drake]

According to the 10th Amendment, it looks like the Federal Government never had the right to even give the money.



Love him or hate him, Rush is right about the Republican Party. If they want to run as Democrat Light, they are history. They won the biggest when Reagan was the standard bearer, and again in '94 with the Contract With America. And during those times they came out swinging and opposed the Democrats on about every issue.

And sadly, we may ALL sink or swim based on what he does. :eek: And his track record so far is ZERO.

Actually, I think Rush is a nut-bar. I adored Reagan, and though Bush v1.0 was mediocre, he had his good points.

I think Reagan would've not thought kindly of Rush. Reagan was a unifier and a diplomat. Rush is a polarizer and a shock jock. He's like Howard Stern without the wit and hot girls.

[1bad65]

I think Reagan would've not thought kindly of Rush. Reagan was a unifier and a diplomat.

Not totally. Reagan did compromise on some issues, but on some issues he refused to budge. He was staunchly anti-abortion. He was fiercly anti-communist. He refused to raise income taxes. Look at how he handled the air-traffic controllers strike, not diplomatically at all. He took a position, and didn't budge.

Imo, when historians associate that one phrase about a President, I'd say Reagan's will be "Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall!". He wasn't diplomatic about that. He didn't say 'Well, it would be a nice gesture if you maybe you considered opening the wall.' He was bold, direct, and staunch when the time came for it. And he knew that right was right, and wrong was wrong.

[Drake]

And don't forget, it was his relationship with Gorbachev that lead to a new openness between the two nations. He shattered the iron curtain with reason, not the hard line, "nuke us and we'll nuke you" approach of JFK. I think his friendship with Gorbachev played a huge part in deconstructing the USSR. That was his philosophy, if you read his book. He believed that Gorbachev knew deep down that communism was wrong, and it was just a matter of convincing him.

[Drake]

I'm reading some of the stuff Cheney is saying now, and I have to wonder, why didn't they say this stuff to begin with?

It's weird, really. A lot of it, if they had just told the public this, then they might not have been so resistant to what happened with Iraq.

It doesn't even make sense to me, honestly.

[uki]

as for the original query of this post, apparently Obama Does bring change. That, there is no denying now is there.change we can believe in. :D

[David Jamieson]

change we can believe in. :D

More like "Change, you better believe it"

lol

[1bad65]

Or:

"Change...That's all you'll have left when he's done."

[KC Elbows]

I'm reading some of the stuff Cheney is saying now, and I have to wonder, why didn't they say this stuff to begin with?

It's weird, really. A lot of it, if they had just told the public this, then they might not have been so resistant to what happened with Iraq.


There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn't work.

Cheney is a neocon. They are not absolutely against the welfare state, they do not believe in the value of being deeply forthcoming with a voter base that is often uneducated or has biases that might prevent necessary action. They are not first and foremost about shrinking government. None of this would have been election winners for a Republican to discuss in a straightforward manner.

W/Cheney and Reagan/GHBush at least have one commonality. They pandered to the religious, got their votes, and ultimately didn't give them the things they wanted. Why did they say they would, and then put forward people like Harriet Myers, who hadn't a chance in hell of being vetted? Because they apparently value the separation of church and state in practice, and reserve defying it to empty rhetoric for election purposes.

[1bad65]

W/Cheney and Reagan/GHBush at least have one commonality. They pandered to the religious, got their votes, and ultimately didn't give them the things they wanted.

Do what? Did you smoke crack for breakfast?

Reagan did EXACTLY what he campaigned on. From Day 1. Iran freed the hostages as he was being sworn in, and Reagan had promised us they were coming home. Reagan ran on cutting taxes, and he did. He ran on fighting communism, and he did. He ran on on anti-abortion platform and he signed laws and appointed judges as he promised.

Now GHW Bush got nailed for "Read my lips", and GW Bush let spending get out of control, but you cannot lump Reagan in there. He did exactly as he promised to do.

[1bad65]

Cheney is a neocon. They are not absolutely against the welfare state, they do not believe in the value of being deeply forthcoming with a voter base that is often uneducated...

KC, you're above this.

We've all seen the 'Obama voter' clips. Hell, even the liberals here are upset he never said a word about the Goverment running GM, yet he jumped right in and did this. Polls coming out now show over 65% of people are AGAINST this Government Motors plan.

As to keeping people ignorant and uninformed, which party takes money from, and passes legislation to help the NEA and Teacher's Unions?

It's a fact that Democrats, especialy ones running in inner-city areas rely almost solely on ignorance (and sadly race as well) to win Congressional seats.

[1bad65]

"It is not every 31-year-old who, in a first government job, finds himself dismantling General Motors and rewriting the rules of American capitalism.

But that, in short, is the job description for Brian Deese, a not-quite graduate of Yale Law School who had never set foot in an automotive assembly plant until he took on his nearly unseen role in remaking the American automotive industry.

Mr. Deese’s role is unusual for someone who is neither a formally trained economist nor a business school graduate, and who never spent much time flipping through the endless studies about the future of the American and Japanese auto industries."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/01/business/01deese.html?_r=3&emc=eta1

So, we have a guy with ZERO automotive experience, who is not even out of school yet, and is not an economist running GM?! :eek:

What is the goal here? Does Obama really want the country to prosper? Or is he looking for more pain? Remember, more pain equals more votes for 'Hope' and 'Change'.......

[David Jamieson]

Do what? Did you smoke crack for breakfast?

Reagan did EXACTLY what he campaigned on. From Day 1. Iran freed the hostages as he was being sworn in, and Reagan had promised us they were coming home. Reagan ran on cutting taxes, and he did. He ran on fighting communism, and he did. He ran on on anti-abortion platform and he signed laws and appointed judges as he promised.

Now GHW Bush got nailed for "Read my lips", and GW Bush let spending get out of control, but you cannot lump Reagan in there. He did exactly as he promised to do.

Iran freed the hostages? really. I'm pretty sure it was a Canadian boy that got them out through the Canadian embassy when they (the americans) escaped during the confusion of a powerplay and had little to do with Reagan.

[1bad65]

Iran freed the hostages? really. I'm pretty sure it was a Canadian boy that got them out through the Canadian embassy when they (the americans) escaped during the confusion of a powerplay and had little to do with Reagan.

Better read your history then. Your completely wrong on this one.

[Drake]

Better read your history then. Your completely wrong on this one.

Canadians also freed the slaves, defeated Nazi Germany, and rescued 1000 puppies at Pearl Harbor...

When you have a frighteningly high moose to human ratio, you'll say whatever it takes to stay relevant...

[KC Elbows]

Do what? Did you smoke crack for breakfast?

Reagan did EXACTLY what he campaigned on. From Day 1. Iran freed the hostages as he was being sworn in, and Reagan had promised us they were coming home. Reagan ran on cutting taxes, and he did. He ran on fighting communism, and he did. He ran on on anti-abortion platform and he signed laws and appointed judges as he promised.

Now GHW Bush got nailed for "Read my lips", and GW Bush let spending get out of control, but you cannot lump Reagan in there. He did exactly as he promised to do.

I'm not referring to campaign promises, and I'm not saying anyone lied.
In fact, what I'm referring to is something I do like about both Reagan and W. The people backing a candidate do not simply expect campaign promises, they expect to have a voice in more aspects of a candidates actions, and some expect improvement of their position or influence in the culture. The religious right was clamoring for supreme court justices who would back them, but really, Myers was the only one that was purely activist in potential, the others being more professional than anti/pro anything.

Reagan and Bush did not lie, but they also did not make the mistake of pandering where pandering gave too much influence long term to one group.

This is not my original idea, nor a Democrats, but a common view in political science. Guys like Bush, Reagan, Eisenhower, they give scraps to the religious right like putting "under God" in the pledge, but when it comes to handing over real power to their bases when it would be unwise or unamerican to do so, they repeatedly reserve their second terms to fall short.

[KC Elbows]

KC, you're above this.

We've all seen the 'Obama voter' clips. Hell, even the liberals here are upset he never said a word about the Goverment running GM, yet he jumped right in and did this. Polls coming out now show over 65% of people are AGAINST this Government Motors plan.

As to keeping people ignorant and uninformed, which party takes money from, and passes legislation to help the NEA and Teacher's Unions?

It's a fact that Democrats, especialy ones running in inner-city areas rely almost solely on ignorance (and sadly race as well) to win Congressional seats.

I did not say other politicians do not do the same practices as the neocons. I'm saying that the neocon view has obfuscation as a necessary tool, is not against a welfare state, and they have traditionally not been concerned about government becoming too large. If one does not hold any of these views, they probably are not a neocon, because being a neocon is not entirely about a group of specific names who, if you are with them, you're in the club, but a political viewpoint.

But yes, Republicans and Democrats screw the people and get paid for it, and most of the time, their supposed political beliefs seem to be the first thing out the window.

Agreed. Now can I get back to my morning crack?:D

[1bad65]

I did not say other politicians do not do the same practices as the neocons.

Can you be more specific instead of using "Neocon", please. You sound like BD. ;)

Seriously, it is confusing. Like me, I know there are differences in Democrats. You have some, like Senator Webb of VA who are more middle-of-the road. Then you have socialists like Obama and Pelosi. I make the distinction.

I'm not sure what you mean by "neocon", so it gets hard to debate. Like we can all agree that Reagan was quite different than GW Bush. And Gingrich is different than Powell. And Ron Paul is different than most elected Republicans. They don't all march to the beat of the same exact drum.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Canadians also freed the slaves, defeated Nazi Germany, and rescued 1000 puppies at Pearl Harbor...

When you have a frighteningly high moose to human ratio, you'll say whatever it takes to stay relevant...

First of all, that is a beaver-to-human ratio, not moose.
Second, outside of the PH thing, you are quite correct.
:D

[BoulderDawg]

Not totally. Reagan did compromise on some issues, but on some issues he refused to budge...........He refused to raise income taxes.

That's a f'ing laugh!:D

I think you need to reread history.:p

[KC Elbows]

Can you be more specific instead of using "Neocon", please. You sound like BD. ;)

Seriously, it is confusing. Like me, I know there are differences in Democrats. You have some, like Senator Webb of VA who are more middle-of-the road. Then you have socialists like Obama and Pelosi. I make the distinction.

I'm not sure what you mean by "neocon", so it gets hard to debate. Like we can all agree that Reagan was quite different than GW Bush. And Gingrich is different than Powell. And Ron Paul is different than most elected Republicans. They don't all march to the beat of the same exact drum.

I'm being specific by saying neocon. Neoconservatives, the movement begun in the democratic party, influenced by Trotskyites, which championed cold war spending, Reaganomics, and after the cold war championed increased military spending to ostensibly support Israel.

Neoconservatives are not averse to the welfare state, et al.

Reagan worked with neoconservatives, but was not one himself to my knowledge. Same with W. Cheney is one in the sense that he favors Kristol's ideas. Wolfowitz is one, and his written ideas on the topic of Iraq compared with justifications such as Iraqi complicity in 9-11 provide a good demonstration of the neoconservative principle of appropriate truths for appropriate ears.

I'm not actually trying to demonize neocons by this description, it is a fair description. Many of the neocon positions raise interesting questions. It is true that leaders must coach their words to achieve results, but does making this a desired trait set up shadow government removed from the people, and, if so, does that take away the relevance of elections to creating representative government?

The neocon positions are often quite pragmatic, but their ends over means approach ultimately erodes trust in them, so that they are often having to piggyback on the careers of more mainstream conservatives in order to achieve their goals. It also means that, if they felt they were more likely to achieve their goals in another party, they would likely do so.

[1bad65]

What about this guy who went on a shooting spree at a recruiting station?

He HATED the military. He HATED those who served. He acted out on his HATE. Will he be charged with a 'Hate Crime'?

Why not, after all he acted on HATE?

[KC Elbows]

What about this guy who went on a shooting spree at a recruiting station?

He HATED the military. He HATED those who served. He acted out on his HATE. Will he be charged with a 'Hate Crime'?

Why not, after all he acted on HATE?

I'm pretty sure a treason charge is in order, and would be stiffer than a murder or murder with hate crime charge.

[David Jamieson]

Better read your history then. Your completely wrong on this one.

nuh uh.

the hostage crisis was during the carter admin, and several were saved by a canadian diplomat who got them out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis#Canadian_Caper

the american military incursion failed and the algiers agreement was made ready before reagan took office.

he really had nothing to do with it besides pushing the pen as his first act. but that's kind of like setting the table and making a huge dinner and then giving dad the credit for it all because he cut the first piece of turkey.

it was one day after he took office that the rest were freed.

reagan had nothing to do with the policy that made it so.

I believe it is you who need the history lesson?

I happened to watch it all unfold on tv! lol

[BoulderDawg]

I'm pretty sure a treason charge is in order, and would be stiffer than a murder or murder with hate crime charge.

There is no treason.....shooting up an army recuiting office hardly equates to taking over the government.

Anyway we have been told by the neos for years now that we are at war with the Muslims and terrorist. Since this guy was charged with 15 acts of terrorism I'm wondering how he could be charged at all. Would not the deaths of the military personnel just be classified as casualities of war? Shoud he not be held as a POW with all of the protections of the Geneva convention?

[1bad65]

I believe it is you who need the history lesson?

I happened to watch it all unfold on tv! lol

Read the hostages accounts. They were freed because the Iranians knew Reagan wasn't a buffoon like Carter was. He meant business, and the terrorists knew it.

[BoulderDawg]

Read the hostages accounts. They were freed because the Iranians knew Reagan wasn't a buffoon like Carter was. He meant business, and the terrorists knew it.

So, Reagan was willing to start a war over these 50 hostages?

Truth is they were in the middle of Tehran. There would have been no way to rescue these hostages short of some sort of inside cooperation.

Truth is had Reagan decided to push the plunger (so to speak) he would have probably gooten them back.....of course they would have all been dead. Then count the casualties from trying to take a major city in enemy terrority...not to mention all the innocent people that would have been killed in the attack.

Reagan would have done this.......I doubt it but you never knew. Also, let's remember that the story of the shah was just coming out and it looked like there was a lot of justification for the taking of the hostages.

[1bad65]

"President Obama backed Iran's claim that it has a right to nuclear energy -- but only if the country proves by the end of the year that its aspirations are peaceful.

Obama told the BBC in an interview broadcast Tuesday that he believes "Iran has legitimate energy concerns, legitimate aspirations," adding that the international community also "has a very real interest" in preventing a nuclear arms race."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/02/obamas-outreach-muslim-world-carries-high-political-stakes/

This is insanity. Haven't the liberals learned anything from North Korea's nuclear programs? It's the same story! Maybe even worse. After all, that maniac running Iran has publicly stated Israel has no right to exist. Yeah, he sounds like a real peacemaker. :rolleyes:

I sure hope Israel deals with them the way they deserve to be dealt with. Because if they do achieve the ability to use nukes, it will not end pretty.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I sure hope Israel deals with them the way they deserve to be dealt with. Because if they do achieve the ability to use nukes, it will not end pretty.


I'll be honest with you, most of those that are in the military or served kind of fall into the view that, when "talks" of nuclear arms come up, it usually means "they" have them already or are too **** close to getting them.
Not saying that is THIS case, just saying...

[David Jamieson]

"President Obama backed Iran's claim that it has a right to nuclear energy -- but only if the country proves by the end of the year that its aspirations are peaceful.

Obama told the BBC in an interview broadcast Tuesday that he believes "Iran has legitimate energy concerns, legitimate aspirations," adding that the international community also "has a very real interest" in preventing a nuclear arms race."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/02/obamas-outreach-muslim-world-carries-high-political-stakes/

This is insanity. Haven't the liberals learned anything from North Korea's nuclear programs? It's the same story! Maybe even worse. After all, that maniac running Iran has publicly stated Israel has no right to exist. Yeah, he sounds like a real peacemaker. :rolleyes:

I sure hope Israel deals with them the way they deserve to be dealt with. Because if they do achieve the ability to use nukes, it will not end pretty.


that's crazy talk.

Persia is an ancient society and Iran is an amazing country populated with an amazing people with terrific culture.

There is no reason why Iran shouldn't have nuclear energy like anywhere else? Why should they only rely on a dying resource and teh empty promises of the USA?

you do realize that US foreign policy in Iran has been dismal for years.

their current president gets censured by the Ayatollah everytime he whips out a hell and brimstone speech.

Israel will have to deal with everyone in the region in a normalize manner eventually and they will have to do better at smoothing things over with the neighbours. After all, the ARE the new kid on the block.

war helps no one, everybody knows that and if Obama can move away from that way of thinking, that is excellent!

the real problems are the fundamentalists who definitely need to be taken out, period. Hamas and Hezzbollah are fear groups and terrorists. Iran would be a huge ally in removing them and their ideologies. The Saudis are useless in that respect politically speaking.

It is wrong to paint whole countries with a wide stroke. It is not only wrong, but it is infantile to do so.

why should only some countries benefit from nuclear power?

Canada is poised to make a lot of money selling reactors and we want to move forward with it.

[KC Elbows]

This is insanity. Haven't the liberals learned anything from North Korea's nuclear programs?

There is a bit of a difference. Iranian political processes have some legitimacy, whereas North Korean ones are merely tools of one crazy man.

Not to mention that we have probably forever lost the ability to claim that we have some right to police Iran due to the nature of what happened in the lead up to '79, which makes legitimizing our attempts to do so near impossible.

[1bad65]

David,

What part of 'Their leader says Israel does not have the right to exist' did you miss?

I don't care about anything else you wrote. That animal is their leader. Who cares about ancient Persia? Or what the Ayatollah says? That maniac will have access to nuclear weapons. Are you really not able to say thats a huge accident waiting to happen?

[sanjuro_ronin]

David,

What part of 'Their leader says Israel does not have the right to exist' did you miss?

I don't care about anything else you wrote. That animal is their leader. Who cares about ancient Persia? Or what the Ayatollah says? That maniac will have access to nuclear weapons. Are you really not able to say thats a huge accident waiting to happen?

If we were gonna nuke everyone that thinks Israel doesn't have the right to exist...

Fact is, I have serious doubts that Whathisface is looking to go to war, what he is looking for is to get some nice concessions and to be a major player in the ME, far more than Iran is now.

[KC Elbows]

David,

What part of 'Their leader says Israel does not have the right to exist' did you miss?

I don't care about anything else you wrote. That animal is their leader. Who cares about ancient Persia? Or what the Ayatollah says? That maniac will have access to nuclear weapons. Are you really not able to say thats a huge accident waiting to happen?

The difference between the North Korean leader having access to nukes and Iran's leader are great. There is no legitimate political process that could prevent Kim from using them, because there is virtually nothing as far as legitimate political processes in North Korea. Iran's leader has numerous ones to deal with before he could hope to gain access to them, much less use them.

That said, I'm not crazy about the fact that eventually this cat will be out of the bag, but I'm more worried about countries like North Korea having them. Larger nations with some legitimate political processes have tended to view their nuclear arsenals as a deterrent more than a weapon, not because we are more rational than others, but because knowledge that a launch would mean utter destruction is fairly common knowledge.

[David Jamieson]

David,

What part of 'Their leader says Israel does not have the right to exist' did you miss?

I don't care about anything else you wrote. That animal is their leader. Who cares about ancient Persia? Or what the Ayatollah says? That maniac will have access to nuclear weapons. Are you really not able to say thats a huge accident waiting to happen?

your propaganda is infantile 1bad.

seriously.

not to mention that the only country ever to use nuclear weapons was the US on a country that wasn't any longer capable of waging war.

Which ain't much different than crippling another certain country with 12 years worth of military actions and sanctions and then attacking it.

so who's the animal?

careful how you weild your brush of hatred, you're getting it all over yourself.

[1bad65]

your propaganda is infantile 1bad.

seriously.

Are you denying he said that? :confused:

[David Jamieson]

Are you denying he said that? :confused:

who cares what he said.
politicians say all sorts of nonsense.

you know he got censured for it too right.

your previous president said a lot of crap too.

israel talks a lot of crap.

my pm talks crap.

and so on.

It amounts to nothing.

actions are what counts.

[Yao Sing]

"67 percent of U.S. voters oppose the Obama administration's plan to bail out General Motors"

Read article here (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=99835).

David, I'm still waiting for the name of the hospital, and the doctor's name too, where Obama was born.

Maybe you can also post that info here (http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/3764-4049) and/or here (http://www.thefoxnation.com/politics/2009/05/27/gibbs-finally-fields-birth-certificate-question) since nobody else seems to have it.

[1bad65]

not to mention that the only country ever to use nuclear weapons was the US on a country that wasn't any longer capable of waging war.

So YOU say.

I say we used nuclear weapons on a country that launched a surprise attack on us and refused to surrender. You mess with the bull, you get the horns.

[1bad65]

who cares what he said.
politicians say all sorts of nonsense.

Yeah, that Hitler guy was just a bunch of hot air. :rolleyes:

Like Rush says, "Words mean things".

[David Jamieson]

"67 percent of U.S. voters oppose the Obama administration's plan to bail out General Motors"

Read article here (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=99835).

David, I'm still waiting for the name of the hospital, and the doctor's name too, where Obama was born.

Maybe you can also post that info here (http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/3764-4049) and/or here (http://www.thefoxnation.com/politics/2009/05/27/gibbs-finally-fields-birth-certificate-question) since nobody else seems to have it.

seriously?

ok, but if you insist on using worldnet daily as your source, then I don't know what to comment about the quality of your analytical abilities or adeptness at critical thinking.

a) http://nativeborncitizen.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/obama-birth-certificate1.jpg

b) http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/03/07/hawaii-birth-certificates-overview/

I can only imagine you want to believe what you want to believe for whatever reasons.

I am certain there is a goodly chunk of americans who simply can't stand the idea that their president is a black man too.

whatever, get over it. You think the pentagon would let a foreigner be their commander in chief? Think again.

yeesh. :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

Which ain't much different than crippling another certain country with 12 years worth of military actions and sanctions and then attacking it.

Oh poor Iraq. Cry me a river.

Dude, those things happened because they overran Kuwait! They gassed their own people! Is your hatred of my country so great you can completely ignore the evils of other countries just because they hate us?

[1bad65]

seriously?

ok, but if you insist on using worldnet daily as your source, then I don't know what to comment about the quality of your analytical abilities or adeptness at critical thinking.

Fine. Try Gallup on then:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/117211/americans-continue-oppose-chrysler-loans.aspx

Or try Rasmussen:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/auto_industry/just_21_favor_gm_bailout_plan_67_oppose

[1bad65]

I am certain there is a goodly chunk of americans who simply can't stand the idea that their president is a black man too.

And liberals like you always inject race into the discussion. :rolleyes: Par for the course.

[David Jamieson]

Oh poor Iraq. Cry me a river.

Dude, those things happened because they overran Kuwait! They gassed their own people! Is your hatred of my country so great you can completely ignore the evils of other countries just because they hate us?

They overran kuwait for whatever reasons. whatever, they got pushed back by a world coalition army.

they gassed kurdish rebels with american supplied gas.

again, you are being a weasel in your presentation 1bad. You are entirely unreliable in your efforts to disseminate information.

keep digging your hole of nonsense.

[David Jamieson]

And liberals like you always inject race into the discussion. :rolleyes: Par for the course.

who said I was liberal. You are quick to put labels on people. Perhaps it is because you are young, naive and unsure of all the world holds.

It sure seems that way with your juvenile and simplistic view of things.

If I'm a liberal, you're a fascist nationalist. lol

in reality, you seem to be just a regurgitation machine of western media from the right.

too much TV and rush limbaugh has made you this way I'll bet. :p

[Yao Sing]

And liberals like you always inject race into the discussion. :rolleyes: Par for the course.

Yep, I noticed how he's trying to equate me with racists.

That's because he failed to provide the evidence he claimed to have, namely the name of the hospital where Obama was born.

Tell me where on that certificate graphic (which is not acceptable for legal proof of citizenship) it states the name of the doctor or the hospital?

And you do know that what you posted has been dismissed as a forgery right?

You do know that no legal entity would accept that as proof of anything right?

Do you see the long form on the second link you posted? That's what he is asked to produce and he's spending thousands of dollars to keep it suppressed and you don't question his motives at all? How about his college records which he is also fighting to suppress?

Nothing at all strange here right? Keep in mind this isn't Joe Blow citizen who has an expection of privacy. He's responsible for proving his eligibility and computer graphics don't cut it in the legal world.

That graphic is easily modified so that's no evidence at all. And we still have the adoption and Indonesian citizenship issue.

[1bad65]

They overran kuwait for whatever reasons. whatever, they got pushed back by a world coalition army.

they gassed kurdish rebels with american supplied gas.

And you call me juvenile.

Dude, they attacked Kuwait to take their oil to pay for the deficit their war with Iran caused. So, they did EXACTLY what you liberals say Bush did, they waged a "War For Oil".

Can you show where we supplied that gas? Don't be like BD, back up your assertions. ;)

again, you are being a weasel in your presentation 1bad. You are entirely unreliable in your efforts to disseminate information.

keep digging your hole of nonsense.

I'm the one sourcing my accuations. As is Yao. So does Drake.

Let's see if you do. I'm waiting to see that proof we supplied Iraq with poison gas.

And yes, you are free to refute ANYTHING I've stated. If I'm so full of nonsense, this should be easy for you to completely destroy my credibility. Have at it! :D

[1bad65]

Yep, I noticed how he's trying to equate me with racists.

The racist accusations are usually last-ditch debate tools for them.

That's because he failed to provide the evidence he claimed to have, namely the name of the hospital where Obama was born.

He has a history of failing to source his accusations. Remember, Jamieson is the guy who claimed we put people in prison for being poor. :rolleyes:

Tell me where on that certificate graphic (which is not acceptable for legal proof of citizenship) it states the name of the doctor or the hospital?

And you do know that what you posted has been dismissed as a forgery right?

You do know that no legal entity would accept that as proof of anything right?

Gee, sounds alot like when CBS accepted copies from Kinko's as proof.

Do you see the long form on the second link you posted? That's what he is asked to produce and he's spending thousands of dollars to keep it suppressed and you don't question his motives at all? How about his college records which he is also fighting to suppress?

Nothing at all strange here right? Keep in mind this isn't Joe Blow citizen who has an expection of privacy. He's responsible for proving his eligibility and computer graphics don't cut it in the legal world.

That graphic is easily modified so that's no evidence at all. And we still have the adoption and Indonesian citizenship issue.

Yao, to be honest I've always felt the citizenship deal was a bit too far-fetched.

But now, based on your links (including the White House press secretary ducking the issue), I'm thinking it's a legit question/issue.

Why are they hiding it? I mean, if it's legit, just put it out there and shut people like Yao up. Makes you wonder why they wont....

[1bad65]

The birth certificate stuff reminds me of that scene in The Benchwarmers. :D

The one where the guy with a teenage son presents a piece of paper with his current picture on it and the words "I am 12" written in crayon as proof he is eligible to play in Little League games. And it worked!

[Drake]

FYI, when we took prisoners in Iraq, we gave them food, shelter, water, and in some cases, even Game Boys. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, they slaughtered the males and raped the women.

But yeah.. whatever...

Idiot...

[David Jamieson]

Drake, US GI's raped there way across vietnam, and need I remind you of abu graib oh Kettle boy? Big "w" with an "L" right back at you dimwit.

1 bad, I doubt you can tie your shoes you get so enraged they are made in China.

yao sing, you just keep believing what you want. Wherever that gets you, I hope you're happy. Watch out for pot's though.

you three in particular are interesting cases.

too much limbaugh. putting words into others mouths, going off track when challenged on your silly assumptions and suppositions and refusing to see the world through any other way than blinders tied on firmly.

no point in talking to the three stooges, unless you wanna talk about martial arts, but 1bad isn't into martial arts particularly.

so that leaves drake and yao sing.

see you in other threads perhaps. this sausage fest is getting boring. lol

Go Obama! hahaha.

[Drake]

Cocaine is one hell of a drug...

[David Jamieson]

Cocaine is one hell of a drug...

really? You use coke?
You shouldn't. It is very harmful.

[1bad65]

Drake, US GI's raped there way across vietnam, and need I remind you of abu graib oh Kettle boy? Big "w" with an "L" right back at you dimwit.

We did? Can you provide some examples, sourced of course? ;)

1 bad, I doubt you can tie your shoes you get so enraged they are made in China.

I wear Vans. They dont have laces. But hey, it only upsets me that American companies find it's cheaper to manufacture in Communist China than in the US. That's sad. And our current President is gonna make it even harder to do it here. So we will likely see even more stuff manufactured overseas.

yao sing, you just keep believing what you want. Wherever that gets you, I hope you're happy. Watch out for pot's though.

Well, he does have evidence. He's still waiting on you to produce yours....

you three in particular are interesting cases.

Yeah, we source our allegations. Amazing, isn't it? ;)

too much limbaugh. putting words into others mouths, going off track when challenged on your silly assumptions and suppositions and refusing to see the world through any other way than blinders tied on firmly.

Blinders? Going off track when challenged? Ah, in case you missed it we backed up our claims. Yao claimed 65% were against the Obama's GM policy and he sourced it. You laughed off his source, so I provided 2 others. Who has blinders on? Not us.

no point in talking to the three stooges, unless you wanna talk about martial arts, but 1bad isn't into martial arts particularly.

so that leaves drake and yao sing.

see you in other threads perhaps. this sausage fest is getting boring. lol

Translation: I got caught talking out my ass again. I got called on it and I know I can't refute anything they say, or source anything I claim. I give up. :D

And I am into martial arts. I've posted before I trian boxing, BJJ, and MMA. But hey, why are you bringing up MA in a political discussion? Isn't that "going off track when challenged"? ;)

[David Jamieson]

We did? Can you provide some examples, sourced of course? ;)

really? are you that stupid or that deep in denial?



I wear Vans. They dont have laces. But hey, it only upsets me that American companies find it's cheaper to manufacture in Communist China than in the US. That's sad. And our current President is gonna make it even harder to do it here. So we will likely see even more stuff manufactured overseas.
To difficult to tie shoes eh? go for the slip ons. I should've figured as much. lol


Well, he does have evidence. He's still waiting on you to produce yours....He's got squat, he's got foot stamping and bleating. My evidence is that the man is president of the USA. You cannot get there without some serious background checks. Get a brain, both of ya.



Yeah, we source our allegations. Amazing, isn't it? ;) what source? right wing bleating diatribes are hardly a source.



Blinders? Going off track when challenged? Ah, in case you missed it we backed up our claims. Yao claimed 65% were against the Obama's GM policy and he sourced it. You laughed off his source, so I provided 2 others. Who has blinders on? Not us.
I'll reiterate it for the stupid. You cannot be president without being seriously vetted. You guys are being stupid and flaunting your stupidity. awesome!


Translation: I got caught talking out my ass again. I got called on it and I know I can't refute anything they say, or source anything I claim. I give up. :D You are an idiot and a malcontent who does nothing but generate negative activity here. Thankfully reasonable people come and point out what an idiot you are in order to quiet your nonsense bleating and hate posts.
Please, stick around to serve as an example of what a true american idiot looks like and writes like.

And I am into martial arts. I've posted before I trian boxing, BJJ, and MMA. But hey, why are you bringing up MA in a political discussion? Isn't that "going off track when challenged"? ;) YOu train patty cake, you came here because you wanted to pee on cma and you have some beef with rudy abel. You train to wear the t-shirt by all examples you've shown. You spend more time on this crap thread than anywhere else, ergo it is easy to see you are just a spanner in the hole with not much to contribute but the mini limbaugh rants.

I also like your little dog attitude where you try to say things like "we do this" or "we do that". You can't function on your own and try to throw yourself in with others because in some way you think they validate your nonsense and stand by you. This is weakness and a demonstration of your inadequacy and inability to think for yourself and make your own arguments. It's exactly the same path you came in here with you nose up anthony's ass and I expect you won't change because you seem to have a strong learning disability.

Vomit up someone elses information as if it's your own.

righteous!...not.

laughable....indeed

sad.... for sure

:rolleyes:

as for the crime of rape and crimes of us soldiers in action, in context to drake's thinking that the us are angels and everyone else is demons: http://www.google.com/search?q=GI%27s+charged+and+convicted+of+rape+and+ war+crimes+in+vietnam

[1bad65]

Wow, namecall much? :rolleyes:

Not to go off topic, but where did I "Pee on cma"?

I've competed before, and I could care less what some idiot who says the US puts people in prison for being poor says about my training. FYI, Rudy has been banned for months now, and I'm still here posting away. I've met alot of good guys here, Drake, Yao, Kansuke, Knifefighter, Black Jack, KC, etc. You're actually not half-bad, it's just that you freak out when challenged on your unsourced claims.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Remember, Jamieson is the guy who claimed we put people in prison for being poor. :rolleyes:

Hold on a minute: We may be dealing with a larger myth than just the perspective of one person.

I know lots of Canadians (including myself) who have heard that an American, upon being stopped by police, must have their ID and $5 (or $10, depending on state) in their pocket, or else they can get arrested for vagrancy. This may be an old law, or it may be completely untrue; the thing is, I heard the story from an American from Portland, and many other Canadians claim to have heard the story directly from Americans as well. So, either there's an element of truth to it, or it's just Americans F*cking with Canadians.

[David Jamieson]

Wow, namecall much? :rolleyes:

Not to go off topic, but where did I "Pee on cma"?

I've competed before, and I could care less what some idiot who says the US puts people in prison for being poor says about my training. FYI, Rudy has been banned for months now, and I'm still here posting away. I've met alot of good guys here, Drake, Yao, Kansuke, Knifefighter, Black Jack, KC, etc. You're actually not half-bad, it's just that you freak out when challenged on your unsourced claims.

You are calling me an idiot and whining about name calling in the same paragraph. Outstanding!

You've posted your training vid. I gave my assessment. It's done, get over it.

I don't care if Rudy was banned, it's irrelevant to what actually happened and how you came to be here. Rudy was banned for being a jerk to the site admins and throwing threats around, not because of his episodes with you.

Your "good guys" are merely like minded in some respects or convivial with you in some ways. I'm not saying they aren't good people, I just think their viewpoints are often incorrect in context to reality.


You keep saying my claims are unsourced, and yet i have provided links, search engine phrases etc etc etc. It is when they conflict with your view that you choose to ignore them. These are not op ed pieces, they are confirmed convictions and court rulings.

journalistic rants amount to nothing, which is what the obama birth certificate flap is. It is so ludicrous the SC threw it away like someone scrapes dung from their shoe.

seriously, if you have a problem with your government, write your congress person. If you can't get nothing there, seek out lobby groups that can and so on through the process.

whining about your president here effects exactly zero change and is a huge waste of time and effort if you have any real intention towards that.

why do you bother with it here? it doesn't make any sense to blather on page after page as if some huge conspiracy is against you and your ilk by the president of the united states.

[KC Elbows]

In fairness, though 1bad and I have very different views on politics, I do not believe his views come from a closet racism, but more a dedication to political ideals(and love of flame wars), and he does tend to use smilies to suggest when he is being sarcastic, but not entirely serious. Additionally, I would say that the whole "only posting with his gang" applies much more to Kansuke than 1bad these days. On politics, when he isn't being purposefully cheeky, 1bad is capable of recognizing the merits of another's argument, even when he doesn't agree.

This is not to say that 1bad is not completely wrong about politics, this is one of the requirements of being a Republican.;):p:D

On martial arts, well, he's a mixed martial artist, and so his wasteful use of jing prevents him from thinking straight.

On the flip side, I'm not sure that I'm comfortable being on a list of good guys with Black Jack. I thought he got banned and then posted explicitly racist stuff under another handle? Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong member, but I thought I remember MasterKiller calling him out on it on some thread about how some European country was "watering down their noble blood with that of the moors" or some such thing. Am I thinking of someone else?

[sanjuro_ronin]

On martial arts, well, he's a mixed martial artist, and so his wasteful use of jing prevents him from thinking straight.

Too awesome for mere words !

[BoulderDawg]

You are calling me an idiot and whining about name calling in the same paragraph. Outstanding!

It's taken you that long to figure that out?.........Maybe Bad was right about the idiot part!:D

In any case notice that one of his favorite people on the board is Kansuke. A poster who's only reason for being here is to see if he can get a rise out of people........Bad is the same way. Notice how Bad has poured it on you since he noticed that you were upset about the name calling.

Also, notice how I refuse to play Bad's games and get tangled up in the name calling and insults. Of course because I don't trade insults with him or let anything he says bother me in the least he simply puts me on ignore because he knows that he has no control what so ever.

Typical Neo......Instead of trying to make people feel good he gets off on pising' people off!

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://www.autonet.ca/autos/news/2009/06/02/9653271-ap.html

Chrysler's sales fall 47% in U.S.
KIMBERLY S. JOHNSON and DAN STRUMPF -- Associated Press
Published: 02 06 2009

DETROIT - Chrysler LLC's U.S. sales fell 47 per cent in May, but the company says being under bankruptcy protection did little to deter customers from purchasing its vehicles.

Chrysler said Tuesday it sold 79,010 cars and light trucks last month. The company said its sales were pulled lower because it didn't sell any cars to fleet buyers like rental car companies, but its retail sales to individual buyers were the best they've been all year.

With 789 dealers set to stop selling the company's cars next week, many of those purchases were fuelled by deep discounts. Chrysler had the highest average incentive among automakers last month - $4,159 per vehicle, according to Edmunds.com.

General Motors Corp.'s sales fell 30 per cent from a year ago, but they improved 11 per cent from April as consumers pushed the automaker to its best sales month this year.

Ford Motor Co. posted even better results as it continued to snatch market share from its crosstown rivals. Ford said its May U.S. sales fell 24 per cent from last year but rose 20 per cent from April, and its share of the U.S. market rose to the highest level since 2006.

Other automakers reported month-to-month improvements Tuesday, a day after GM filed for bankruptcy protection in New York.

Toyota Motor Corp. said its U.S. sales fell 40 per cent from last year but climbed 21 per cent from April. Honda Motor Co. reported its year-over-year volumes dropped 41 per cent, while Nissan Motor Co. said sales fell 33 per cent.

"The May results should be interpreted with some caution, given the current volatility in the marketplace," said Emily Kolinski Morris, senior U.S. economist for Ford, in a conference call with reporters.

Auburn Hills-based Chrysler filed for Chapter 11 protection in April and is preparing to exit bankruptcy under an operating agreement with Italian automaker Fiat SpA. Chrysler and GM had resisted entering bankruptcy protection, saying their sales would plummet because consumers would be afraid to make a big purchase from a company in bankruptcy court.

Industry watchers said improved consumer confidence helped draw buyers into showrooms. While sales remained depressed compared with last year - and are likely to remain that way for the rest of 2009 - automakers were optimistic that they had hit bottom.

"We're encouraged that consumers are beginning to return to showrooms and that the industry continues to show signs of stabilization," said Don Esmond, a vice president at Toyota Motor Sales USA, in a statement.

Dearborn-based Ford said it sold 161,197 cars and light trucks in the U.S. last month. Sales of the Ford Fusion rose 9.4 per cent as the company began selling new 2010 models of the midsize sedan along with a hybrid version. Ford said it sold a record number Fusions - 19,786 in May - which was surpassed only by sales of its F-series pickup trucks.

GM said it delivered 191,875 vehicles in May, helped by 110,866 truck sales.

GM entered bankruptcy protection with the hope of emerging within 60 to 90 days as a smaller, less debt-burdened company.

The Pontiac, Hummer, Saturn and Saab brands accounted for the company's biggest sales declines. GM has said it plans to get rid of those divisions as part of its restructuring and stick to four core brands: Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac and GMC.

Saturn sales fell 56 per cent, and Pontiac sales were down 52 per cent.

Mark LaNeve, GM's vice-president of North American sales and marketing, said the automaker expects to lose some market share given the sell off or phasing out of some of its brands, but it doesn't expect its share to fall below 16 per cent.

The fact that a bankruptcy filing loomed over the company throughout the month of May did not hurt sales, he said, adding that consumers may have become "desensitized" to news of the bankruptcy protection filing.

"Obviously it gives us a lot of confidence that some of the negative issues we had to deal with are behind us," he said on a conference call with reporters and industry analysts.

Ford says its better cars are driving sales and its increasing market share, not GM and Chrysler's troubles. The company said it plans to increase production levels in the second quarter by 10,000 vehicles, to 445,000, in contrast to its U.S. competitors that are cutting production and idling plants this summer.

GM said it plans to produce 390,000 vehicles in North America in the second quarter.

Automakers are facing the worst U.S. sales climate in 27 years. The companies and analysts are expecting a rebound as the consumer confidence improves, but there's concern that heavy incentives to are inflating sales.

Ford said it decreased incentive spending in May but is launching a new program, "Drive the Ford Difference," this month, in which the company will pay three months of car payments, up to $2,100. Zero per cent financing will also be available on some vehicles.

---

[sanjuro_ronin]

All these incentives and such just goes to show how over priced those cars were.
Fact is, one SHOULD have concern about what is going to happen when all these incentives to buy stop.

[1bad65]

Hold on a minute: We may be dealing with a larger myth than just the perspective of one person.

I know lots of Canadians (including myself) who have heard that an American, upon being stopped by police, must have their ID and $5 (or $10, depending on state) in their pocket, or else they can get arrested for vagrancy. This may be an old law, or it may be completely untrue; the thing is, I heard the story from an American from Portland, and many other Canadians claim to have heard the story directly from Americans as well. So, either there's an element of truth to it, or it's just Americans F*cking with Canadians.

That's not true at all.

And Jamieson said we throw people in prison for being poor. If you are arrested for vagrancy, you're going to jail AT MOST, not prison.

[1bad65]

You keep saying my claims are unsourced, and yet i have provided links, search engine phrases etc etc etc. It is when they conflict with your view that you choose to ignore them. These are not op ed pieces, they are confirmed convictions and court rulings.

Can you link to your posts where you have provided links?

[1bad65]

All these incentives and such just goes to show how over priced those cars were.
Fact is, one SHOULD have concern about what is going to happen when all these incentives to buy stop.

To a degree. Keep in mind, Camaros and Challengers are getting huge "Market Adjustments" at the dealers. Up to $10,000 in some cases, and they don't sit on the lots long.

I think the state of the economy is a huge factor. Even more than the cars being overpriced. People are scared to sign a 4-6 year note during these times. I think the biggest help are these 'if you lose your job we will pick up the payments, or take the car back, etc' deals.

IMO, the incentives will stay until demand goes up. And I don't see demand going up until the economy gets better, or the when used car prices rise enough that it's more feasable to buy new.

[1bad65]

Thanks for the kind words KC.

We don't agree alot politically, but I respect your debate style. You stick to the facts, state your opinions logically and passionately, and back up your arguments. Thanks again.

[KC Elbows]

Thanks for the kind words KC.

We don't agree alot politically, but I respect your debate style. You stick to the facts, state your opinions logically and passionately, and back up your arguments. Thanks again.

No problem. I love everyone equally long long time. Frankly, David and my approaches are often similar. If I'm looking for a serious debate, and the only options are people trying to drag me into flame wars and hyperbole, I'll occasionally simply take it further than them, but it's annoying, just as it's annoying when one is trying to flame, but isn't serious, and others are too serious about it.

I think one of the big differences between when we first started talking and now is that you quit equating everyone of us with JFS, and I quit being so ****ed serious.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Time for a group hung you *****es !!

[David Jamieson]

That's not true at all.

And Jamieson said we throw people in prison for being poor. If you are arrested for vagrancy, you're going to jail AT MOST, not prison.

what a peculiar understanding you have of the english language.
not able to understand it much that is...lol

Can you link to your posts where you have provided links? do your own work lazy ass. if you know the thread where i said it, you'll find the links there.

:)

[1bad65]

do your own work lazy ass. if you know the thread where i said it, you'll find the links there.

So, you can't. I'm stunned. :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

what a peculiar understanding you have of the english language.
not able to understand it much that is...lol

I understand this:

you also put them in jail for being in debt, being homeless and angry, for not supervising their teenagers, for looking too arabic etc etc.

Straight from the horse's mouth.

And he claimed we put people in jail for "looking too Arabic" and "being homeless and angry" too. :rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

I understand this:



Straight from the horse's mouth.

And he claimed we put people in jail for "looking too Arabic" and "being homeless and angry" too. :rolleyes:

yup yup.

do the work.

don't be lazy.

case:harar

case: jailing homeless people

google is your friend.

[David Jamieson]

So, you can't. I'm stunned. :rolleyes:

you're stunned alright. lol

[1bad65]

Dave, I can't prove a negative. And you know it. If you would show us where you have sourced your allegations in the past, this would be over. Your refusal to do so, coupled with your name-calling and attacking my MA training, make it obvious you can't.

The only sourcing I've ever seen you do was when you claimed America put people in prison for being in debt. And the source you gave said a millionaire couple was put in prison for not paying taxes. Hardly people going to prison for being poor.

But keep ducking the questions and calling names. Everyone here (despite what they feel politically) can see I back up my assertions, while you refuse to do so.

[BoulderDawg]

But keep ducking the questions and calling names. Everyone here (despite what they feel politically) can see I back up my assertions, while you refuse to do so.

It's laughable that you complain about name calling.

Anyway, your problem is that there is a grain of truth in most of what you say. However by the time you have finished twisting it and manipulating it to form to your needs it's totally lost any of it's original meaning.

Also you have a big problem with causation. "Because so-and-so did "A" ten years ago it now effect what happens with "B" today......usually it something personally or sexual about whoever you are talking about but in 90% of what you talk about "A" is in no way related to "B".

[uki]

obama's muslim roots? http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/06/abc-news-jake-tapper-and-sunlen-miller-report-the-other-day-we-heard-a-comment-from-a-white-house-aide-that-neverwould-have.html

correct me if i am wrong... but GM was sold to china? and the chinese military owns stake in every buisness in their country? so the company that armed and equipped america during two world wars was sold to china... and this makes america safer? more secure?

this is getting deep... :rolleyes:

a foreign national born half-black american president with muslim roots nationalizing private industry, advocating stricter gun control measures, and has sold an iconic american company to red china for a reported $500 million dollars... the country is in an economic freefall, people who disagree are branded domestic terrorists(aswell as service veterans from iraq and afghanistan)... i can keep spinning out the web, but there is no purpose... the world is already caught in it.

[David Jamieson]

You have a problem with muslims?
You think they're demons or something?


At least Obama is making an effort at normalizing relations which is more than can be said for his predecessor.

Besides, why can't there be a muslim president? or a jewish one? who cares who teh sky being of choice is so long as the man or woman is capable of making rational choices.

having said that, I don't see the china connection on GM.

66% is owned by the american and canadian taxpayer, the rest is UAW and the leftovers belong to the bond holders (that's your chinese connection).

I would also add it was Bush who sold most of the treasury notes to the chinese. It will be Obama who has to deal with them when they come asking for their money though.

Luckily, they can't do anything militarily speaking despite their huge standing army, the chinese tech is so many years behind any full scale war with them would be a matter of days before their defeat. If it went nuke, then it would be a matter of hours.

so don't sweat it, but by all means, keep living in fear if you like.

[Drake]

As long as Canadians remain in charge of tundra and caribou management, we really have nothing to worry about... let them rant with uninformed ideas about the US. That'd be like me trying to discuss the British monarchy and sound credible.

[David Jamieson]

As long as Canadians remain in charge of tundra and caribou management, we really have nothing to worry about... let them rant with uninformed ideas about the US. That'd be like me trying to discuss the British monarchy and sound credible.

speak for yourself. I'm pretty sure your average canadian is as informed about american politics as any american for the most part.

we do have all the same tv channels and newspapers and radio stations, are intertwined as trading partners and culturally as well.

What I'm surprised about is how ignorant of Canada the average american is.
But then, maybe I'm not the surprised.

Most of us can discuss the monarchy as well. She is our Queen too after all. :)

The only anomalies are Texas in the US and Alberta in Canada. Each reflecting the holding pens of each countries domestic redneck populations. :D

[uki]

You have a problem with muslims?no more so than christians... both religions were created to babttle one another and keep mankind divided.

You think they're demons or something? you could call relgions creator something of the sort... but by religion, i mean all religion... many religions, one goal - control.


so don't sweat it, but by all means, keep living in fear if you like.come on now... fear? me? ha... i grab life by the ****ing balls. i am just thinking outloud when i post here incase other people need help with formulating a thought. :)

[Drake]

speak for yourself. I'm pretty sure your average canadian is as informed about american politics as any american for the most part.

we do have all the same tv channels and newspapers and radio stations, are intertwined as trading partners and culturally as well.

What I'm surprised about is how ignorant of Canada the average american is.
But then, maybe I'm not the surprised.

Most of us can discuss the monarchy as well. She is our Queen too after all. :)

The only anomalies are Texas in the US and Alberta in Canada. Each reflecting the holding pens of each countries domestic redneck populations. :D

Actually, TX is a HUGE melting pot of cultures, and probably one of the least redneck states out there. Even Missouri is more redneck than TX. Confirmed my suspicions. :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Uki is right, what's with all this love they neighbour crap ??
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you - crazy talk !!
Clothe the naked, feed the hungry, take care of the sick, visit the imprisoned, firgive your enemy.
All ravings of a mad man !!
:p

[uki]

Uki is right, it's the re-occurring theme of my life. :D

what's with all this love they neighbour crap ??they call it adultery. :p

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you - crazy talk !!
Clothe the naked, feed the hungry, take care of the sick, visit the imprisoned, firgive your enemy.
All ravings of a mad man !!why are you naked? why are you hungry? why are you sick? why are you imprisoned? :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

it's the re-occurring theme of my life. :D
they call it adultery. :p
why are you naked? why are you hungry? why are you sick? why are you imprisoned? :)

Cause its how I roll baby, its how I roll !
:D

[1bad65]

correct me if i am wrong... but GM was sold to china?

having said that, I don't see the china connection on GM.

The Hummer brand was sold to a Chinese company, not GM.

The joke is on them though, it may not be long before Americans won't be allowed to buy them.

Source: (Because we all know Jamieson won't provide any)
http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/02/news/companies/gm_hummer/index.htm?postversion=2009060216

[1bad65]

I would also add it was Bush who sold most of the treasury notes to the chinese. It will be Obama who has to deal with them when they come asking for their money though.

LOL at Jamieson not letting the truth get in the way of his Bush-bashing.

In case you haven't noticed, Obama is financing his record deficit spending with money borrowed primarily from China.

And likely it will be our children and grandchildren who have to deal with the consequences.

[1bad65]

Actually, TX is a HUGE melting pot of cultures, and probably one of the least redneck states out there. Even Missouri is more redneck than TX. Confirmed my suspicions. :D

It indeed did confirm your suspicions he is an ignorant partisan hack talking out his ass again.

FYI, Texas is not only a melting pot of cultures, races, etc, we are one of the 'giving' States. That means we give MORE money to the Federal Government than we take in. Liberal States like New York and California are 'taking' States. In other words, the Federal Government needs us alot more than we need them.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You guys should take a lesson from your political "favorites" and NOT let things get personal.
When facts are on your side, there is no need for personal attacks.

[KC Elbows]

You guys should take a lesson from your political "favorites" and NOT let things get personal.
When facts are on your side, there is no need for personal attacks.

Just the kind of talk I'd expect from a Canadian!

You think we don't know your plans? Sure, you provide b00bie pics now, but later, when you have taken all the b00bie pics out of the private sector, we'll have to wait in line six days for nude pics of Bea Arthur.

[1bad65]

You guys should take a lesson from your political "favorites" and NOT let things get personal.
When facts are on your side, there is no need for personal attacks.

Apparently when you can't source your assertions, you resort to personal attacks.

Read the thread, me and Yao just asked for a source he claimed he had. When we wouldn't let him weasle his way out of not providing it, he resorted to name-calling, personal attacks, and going off-topic. It's all there for everyone to see.

Even KC went out of his way to point out that we usually disagree, but he did defend me as a person and my debate style.

[1bad65]

...we'll have to wait in line six days for nude pics of Bea Arthur.

Oh man, don't make fun of the dead like that. ;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Just the kind of talk I'd expect from a Canadian!

You think we don't know your plans? Sure, you provide b00bie pics now, but later, when you have taken all the b00bie pics out of the private sector, we'll have to wait in line six days for nude pics of Bea Arthur.

Far beat it for me to begrudge someone their ancient beaver:

[David Jamieson]

Apparently when you can't source your assertions, you resort to personal attacks.



apparently!

Yao did. Did you just miss it, are you retarded, .

hypocrite.

[1bad65]

hypocrite.

Just keep up the name-calling.

Here is a sample of it. And this is only from 2 posts!

...need I remind you of abu graib oh Kettle boy? ...right back at you dimwit.

1 bad, I doubt you can tie your shoes you get so enraged they are made in China.

no point in talking to the three stooges, ...

are you that stupid or that deep in denial?

To difficult to tie shoes eh? go for the slip ons. I should've figured as much. lol

Get a brain, both of ya.

I'll reiterate it for the stupid.

You guys are being stupid and flaunting your stupidity. awesome!

You are an idiot and a malcontent...

Please, stick around to serve as an example of what a true american idiot looks like and writes like.

YOu train patty cake,... You train to wear the t-shirt by all examples you've shown.

I also like your little dog attitude where you try to say things like "we do this" or "we do that". You can't function on your own and try to throw yourself in with others because in some way you think they validate your nonsense and stand by you. This is weakness and a demonstration of your inadequacy and inability to think for yourself and make your own arguments. It's exactly the same path you came in here with you nose up anthony's ass and I expect you won't change because you seem to have a strong learning disability.

And you still haven't posted your source. Or a link to where you actually posted sources in the past. :D

[1bad65]

13 cities post unemployment above 15%.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/03/news/economy/metropolitan_area_unemployment/index.htm?cnn=yes

Man, the police in those cities are gonna be busy throwing all those people in prison for being poor. ;)

[David Jamieson]

Just keep up the name-calling.

Here is a sample of it. And this is only from 2 posts!





And you still haven't posted your source. Or a link to where you actually posted sources in the past. :D

somebody call the wahmbulance, 1bad is crying like a little girl.

gonna call ya sniffles.
sniffles the *****.
almost entertaining, mostly a pita though.

sux to be you, etc etc etc.

:D

weirdo.

[1bad65]

Such maturity and rational debate style.

How old are you?

[David Jamieson]

Such maturity and rational debate style.

How old are you?

older than you little girl.

want some candy?

[1bad65]

somebody call the wahmbulance, 1bad is crying like a little girl.

I could care less. I'm just letting everyone see what type of person you are and showing you cannot act like an adult.

Face it, you once again went off on my country by MAKING UP things about it. And now you're all upset you got called on it. AGAIN.

[1bad65]

older than you

Then please try acting like it.

[Baqualin]

Far beat it for me to begrudge someone their ancient beaver:

Best bagger I've seen:D
BQ

[KC Elbows]

Far beat it for me to begrudge someone their ancient beaver:

OIVEY!!!:eek::(:eek:

[uki]

all i can say is, wow. :rolleyes:

[BoulderDawg]

Face it, you once again went off on my country by MAKING UP things about it. And now you're all upset you got called on it. AGAIN.

Notice now it's "my" country........:D By that you mean the Neos run the country? If this is so then you're in for an awakening!

In any case, you are from Texas, you guys want no part of the union....remember?

[Drake]

I don't mind when people attack Abu Ghraib, because it was a terrible thing, and fortunately, an isolated incident. And remarkably enough, evil tyrant President Bush allowed complete dissent and a remarkable degree of very accusatory statements to be made without jailing a single person over it. Even more remarkable is that our nation is now investigating all that went on there, and even fmr. Pres. Bush himself may not be immune to the results. His legal team is already in hot water. And if he is found guilty or not, the fact that this can occur is testament to the resilience of the nation and the fairness of our legal system.

Even more remarkable is the fact that if someone had spoken out about SH feeding people to the fishes, LITERALLY, they would've had their hands destroyed in a meat grinder prior to being executed. I've been to the places where this happened.

And finally, speaking of our legal system... for every person who might have been imprisoned wrongly, dozens are walking away from a crime they committed because of how meticulous the justice system is, and how something as simple as a chain of custody evidence form being miswritten can instantly exonerate even the most clearly guilty. Again, I have experience in this field.

[KC Elbows]

Flame wars are fun when one wants one, and when one doesn't, they can only be ignored, not ended. Then you can come back another day and start it up when you've had your wheaties. It's like SR and the Bea Arthur debacle. Today, I'm at a loss, but another day, he will pay.

In most cases, even the posts that seem to be cited by any of us hardly ever would pass the muster for scholarship, while most of the accusations on all sides have about as much weight as air.

Except, of course, me. My posts can cite themselves. This is why I never form gaggles for a flame war. If I allowed others to back me, we'd have to start citing sources. As I am my own peer, I have reviewed myself, and I'm quite good. Thank you.(Elbows, KC. KC addresses the unwashed masses , ezine.kungfumagazine.com, 2009)

[sanjuro_ronin]

It's like SR and the Bea Arthur debacle. Today, I'm at a loss, but another day, he will pay.

Bring it on monkey-boy !

[David Jamieson]

Bring it one monkey-boy !

he only has one monkey?

maybe, but i hear it has 5 asses.


hey 1bad, can you source that 5 assed monkey for us?

:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

he only has one monkey?

maybe, but i hear it has 5 asses.


hey 1bad, can you source that 5 assed monkey for us?

:D

Typo correct, you sanctimonious old **** and spelling nazi.

[1bad65]

hey 1bad, can you source that 5 assed monkey for us?

We all know you couldn't! ;)

[1bad65]

"President Hugo Chavez claimed this week that he and his Cuban ally Fidel Castro are more conservative than left-wing U.S. President Barack Obama, referring to the American government bailout and takeover of General Motors, Reuters reported.

The Venezuelan leader was giving a speech on the "curse" of capitalism on Tuesday as GM was filing for bankruptcy and preparing for Washington to take control of 60 percent of the 100-year-old symbol of American capitalism.

"Hey, Obama has just nationalized nothing more and nothing less than General Motors. Comrade Obama! Fidel, careful or we are going to end up to his right," Reuters quotes Chavez joking on a national TV broadcast.

Socialist Chavez has nationalized most of Venezuela's economic sectors, including many oil projects that include joint ventures with private companies that give his government a 60 percent stake."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525055,00.html

It is pretty telling when an admitted socialist says you are further left than he is.

[sanjuro_ronin]

"President Hugo Chavez claimed this week that he and his Cuban ally Fidel Castro are more conservative than left-wing U.S. President Barack Obama, referring to the American government bailout and takeover of General Motors, Reuters reported.

The Venezuelan leader was giving a speech on the "curse" of capitalism on Tuesday as GM was filing for bankruptcy and preparing for Washington to take control of 60 percent of the 100-year-old symbol of American capitalism.

"Hey, Obama has just nationalized nothing more and nothing less than General Motors. Comrade Obama! Fidel, careful or we are going to end up to his right," Reuters quotes Chavez joking on a national TV broadcast.

Socialist Chavez has nationalized most of Venezuela's economic sectors, including many oil projects that include joint ventures with private companies that give his government a 60 percent stake."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525055,00.html

It is pretty telling when an admitted socialist says you are further left than he is.

LOL !
That is a funny one.
On a side note, I do think that all natural resources should be nationalized.

[KC Elbows]

To those about to flame, my five assed monkey salutes you!

[sanjuro_ronin]

To those about to flame, my five assed monkey salutes you!

You mean this guy?

[Baqualin]

You mean this guy?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:eek::eek::eek::eek::D

[KC Elbows]

You mean this guy?

Yes. That is the patron saint of flame wars. He is called the six assed monkey, and many theories exist as to why, having only five visible asses, he is called such. The inner door disciples know that, in truth, the sixth ass is the viewer.

Naturally, the six assed monkey also has many back door disciples.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Thoughts about Obama's speech in Cairo ??

[1bad65]

Thoughts about Obama's speech in Cairo ??

I do know this part is complete fiction:

"As a student of history, I also know civilization's debt to Islam. It was Islam at places like Al-Azhar that carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe's renaissance and enlightenment. It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra, our magnetic compass and tools of navigation, our mastery of pens and printing, our understanding of how disease spreads and how it could be healed. Islamic culture has given us majestic arches and soaring spires, timeless poetry and cherished music, elegant calligraphy, and places of peaceful contemplation -- and throughout history, Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality."

The people here who have studied Chinese inventions can attest to that.

[BoulderDawg]

I do know this part is complete fiction:

"As a student of history, I also know civilization's debt to Islam. It was Islam at places like Al-Azhar that carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe's renaissance and enlightenment. It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra, our magnetic compass and tools of navigation, our mastery of pens and printing, our understanding of how disease spreads and how it could be healed. Islamic culture has given us majestic arches and soaring spires, timeless poetry and cherished music, elegant calligraphy, and places of peaceful contemplation -- and throughout history, Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality."

The people here who have studied Chinese inventions can attest to that.

Very word of that statement is true. No where does he say "The Muslims invented........." There is a difference between inventions and innovations.

Just because you buy into the Neo's message of religious hatred against Muslims does not diminish their accomplishments throughout history.

Also, only you could somehow use the Chinese culture to promote hatred against the Muslims.....par for the course.

[SharkyT]

I do know this part is complete fiction:

"As a student of history, I also know civilization's debt to Islam. It was Islam at places like Al-Azhar that carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe's renaissance and enlightenment. It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra, our magnetic compass and tools of navigation, our mastery of pens and printing, our understanding of how disease spreads and how it could be healed. Islamic culture has given us majestic arches and soaring spires, timeless poetry and cherished music, elegant calligraphy, and places of peaceful contemplation -- and throughout history, Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality."

The people here who have studied Chinese inventions can attest to that.

To the uneducated like yourself, an A is just three sticks.

[1bad65]

Looks like the Europeans are figuring it out.

"Conservatives raced toward victory in some of Europe's largest economies Sunday as initial results and exit polls showed voters punishing left-leaning parties in European parliament elections in France, Germany and elsewhere.

Some right-leaning parties said the results vindicated their reluctance to spend more on company bailouts and fiscal stimulus amid the global economic crisis.

First projections by the European Union showed center-right parties would have the most seats — between 263 and 273 — in the 736-member parliament. Center-left parties were expected to get between 155 to 165 seats.

Right-leaning governments were ahead of the opposition in Germany, France, Italy and Belgium, while conservative opposition parties were leading in Britain and Spain.

Greece was the exception, where the governing conservatives were headed for defeat in the wake of corruption scandals and economic woes.

"Tonight is a very difficult evening for Socialists in many nations in Europe," Martin Schulz, the leader of the Socialists in the European Parliament, told party faithful in Brussels via video link from Berlin. "(We will) continue to fight for social democracy in Europe."

Many Socialists ran campaigns that slammed center-right leaders for failing to rein in financial markets and spend enough to stimulate faltering economies.

Graham Watson, leader of the EU's center-right Liberal Democrat grouping, said early results suggested a rejection of the Socialist approach.

"People don't want a return to socialism and that's why the majority here will be a center-right majority," he said."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525344,00.html

[BoulderDawg]

Congrats to all of those EuroNeos! Mayhap Limby can move to Warsaw!:p

Anyway, once again Bad decides to give us incomplete information. I found and read the article that he quoted above........I guess it just slipped his mind to include this section towards the bottom of that article:

Far-right groups and other fringe parties gained in record low turnout estimated at 43.5 percent of 375 million eligible, reflecting widespread disenchantment with the continentwide legislature.

Britain elected its first extreme-right politician to the European Parliament, with the British National Party winning a seat in northern England's Yorkshire and the Humber district.

The far-right party, which does not accept nonwhites as members, was expected to possibly win further seats as more results in Britain were announced.

Lawmakers with Britain's major political parties said the far right's advance was a reflection of anger over immigration issues and the recession that is causing unemployment to soar.

Hmmmmmm.........

So Neos that practice open racism are winning seats in the UK?

If nothing else I have to give these people props for being so honest. There isn't a whole lot of difference between the Euro Neo and the American Neo. The main difference seems to be that the Europeans are not going to lie about who's acceptable to their party.

[1bad65]

Looks like the road to socialism may have some potholes in it. :)

"The Supreme Court on Monday granted an emergency appeal asking it to halt the impending government-backed sale of Chrysler to Italian automaker Fiat.

The order stops for now Chrysler's sale."

Source:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/08/breaking-supreme-court-halts-chyrsler-sale-fiat/

[BoulderDawg]

Looks like the road to socialism may have some potholes in it. :)

"The Supreme Court on Monday granted an emergency appeal asking it to halt the impending government-backed sale of Chrysler to Italian automaker Fiat.

The order stops for now Chrysler's sale."

Source:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/08/breaking-supreme-court-halts-chyrsler-sale-fiat/

Really? I have no idea what this has to do with socialism but so be it.

In any case I'm really surprised that you view this as something good. I thought all of you Neos were totally lazzie faire, hands off people. Government backed or not the decision to sale is left up to the board of directors.

So, in your opinion, any company that received a "bailout" is forever tainted as being run by the government?

No matter though. To be honest I really feel for Obama. He's trying to clear up a mess that should have never happened.

[Baqualin]

Really? I have no idea what this has to do with socialism but so be it.

In any case I'm really surprised that you view this as something good. I thought all of you Neos were totally lazzie faire, hands off people. Government backed or not the decision to sale is left up to the board of directors.

So, in your opinion, any company that received a "bailout" is forever tainted as being run by the government?

No matter though. To be honest I really feel for Obama. He's trying to clear up a mess that should have never happened.

BD,
I still think your an idiot, but you have my respect....you never waver from your beliefs and always stand up for what you think is right no matter what anybody says to you...Kudos (sorry for using a Limpy term;)).
BQ

[BoulderDawg]

BD,
I still think your an idiot, but you have my respect....

A typical neo.:D

Speaking of namecalling and respect in the same sentence. Like somehow these two are suppose to go together.

Liberalism is more simpler and honest. There is no need for insults.......just honesty and respect.

**********

In any case I would not know what a "Limby" term would be since I don't listen to him. In fact the last time I heard this "heart attack waiting to happen" was when I had a meeting with business associate who was listening to the show at his desk. I was at the desk for 10 minutes. During that time Limby managed to insult the President twice and do a skit where the guy playing Obama had this deep, deep darkie accent.....:rolleyes:

He wasn't my employee.....good thing! He would have had much more time after that to listen to Limby!:D

[1bad65]

BD,
I still think your an idiot,...

Don't forget racist too. :rolleyes:

[BoulderDawg]

Don't forget racist too. :rolleyes:

Then I'm in good company: Obama, Sotomayer, Churchill and every liberal who dares suggest that cultural and racial heritage are important to us all.

According to the neos just the pure fact that you acknowledge that you are black, Asian, Indian...whatever makes you a racist.

Calling me a racist is high praise when it comes from this group!

[BoulderDawg]

Just read an article on the GOP fundraiser last night!:D

To start with I say "Hell yeah!" give Sarah Palin the microphone and let her go at it. Every time she opens her mouth the GOP loses another 2,000 votes!:D Of course Newt is just as good. Claiming the bailouts have failed even though not all the money has been distrubuted yet.....:p

Also, it's funny that the neo right hates Hollywood and everything it represents yet they had an actor as their master of ceremonies.:rolleyes: Also there was a grain of truth involved when Mitch McConnel kidded with Jon Voigt, (Paraphasing)"Are you still going to be able to get work after this?" Many producers I know would simply avoid the headache of working with Voigt.

[Baqualin]

A typical neo.:D

Speaking of namecalling and respect in the same sentence. Like somehow these two are suppose to go together.

Liberalism is more simpler and honest. There is no need for insults.......just honesty and respect.

**********

In any case I would not know what a "Limby" term would be since I don't listen to him. In fact the last time I heard this "heart attack waiting to happen" was when I had a meeting with business associate who was listening to the show at his desk. I was at the desk for 10 minutes. During that time Limby managed to insult the President twice and do a skit where the guy playing Obama had this deep, deep darkie accent.....:rolleyes:

He wasn't my employee.....good thing! He would have had much more time after that to listen to Limby!:D

Like I said you never waver:D and by the way for the 5,000 time I'm not a NEO....nor a Liberatarian I'm an Independent....I don't like any of them :)

Liberalism is more simpler and honest. There is no need for insults.......just honesty and respect.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: That's I have to say about that:)
You still have my respect:p
Peace

[1bad65]

I'm not a NEO....

Everyone except him is one. :rolleyes:

Seriously, I'd bet he hasn't had a post the last month or so without the word 'Neo' in it.

[1bad65]

"The Labor Department announced Friday that 345,000 jobs were lost last month, and May's unemployment rate reached 9.4 percent, up from 8.1 percent in February when Democrats in Congress ushered through President Obama's $787 billion stimulus plan.

The administration at the time claimed that without it, the job rate would hit 8.8 percent in 2010.

Vice President Biden said Friday that the highest unemployment rate in more than 25 years underscores the need for the administration to speed up outlays from the recovery package.

Friday's jobs report shows "some signs" that "what we're doing is having an impact," he said, cautioning that some setbacks lie ahead.

But Republican Study Committee Chairman Tom Price of Georgia said that while "the White House and Democrat leadership predictably continue their spin about 'saving' phantom jobs," the best way to get Americans back to work is to reduce "Washington's heavy-handed intervention and reckless spending before any more money is wasted in the name of 'stimulus.'"

"Their spending spree has failed by any definition of economic stimulus," Price said. "The so-called stimulus has done nothing to stem our troubles while creating a mountain of debt that will only make economic stability more difficult for generations to come."

The biggest dark cloud out of the White House is the 156,000 factory jobs lost in May. On top of that, General Motors' bankruptcy filing and the restructuring of Chrysler is likely to add to the unemployment levels.

GM said earlier this week it will close nine factories and idle three others indefinitely as part of its restructuring. The closings, which will take place through the end of 2010, will cost up to 20,000 workers their jobs

Elsewhere, retailers cut 17,500 jobs in May. Financial activities cut 30,000 jobs. The federal government slashed 7,000 positions. Construction companies cut 59,000 jobs."

Source:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/05/biden-obama-announce-plan-ramp-stimulus-summer/

Gotta love the "what we're doing is having an impact" part. Yeah you idiot, you are having an impact. A NEGATIVE impact.

So let's get this straight, unemployment is up, AND we have a record-level mountain of debt. :eek: And the solution is to spend more? :confused:

[1bad65]

This about says it all:

"Less than four months after the Obama administration argued that unemployment would top 9 percent only if Congress failed to pass a massive trillion-dollar "stimulus" spending bill, the Labor Department reported Friday that the jobless rate had soared to 9.4 percent, the highest in 25 years.

In pushing to get his $787 billion stimulus package passed in Congress, President Obama's economic team said that without the federal spending jolt, the unemployment rate would hit 8.8 percent by the last fiscal quarter of 2010. With the package, his advisers argued, the unemployment rate would reach only 7 percent."

Source:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/05/unemployment-rate-climbs-percent-highest-years/

He was wrong! Period. He said it would not go over 9% if we eneacted his 'stimulus' bill. Well, we did enact it. And now unemployment is up to 9.4%.

Can we get our money back?

[BoulderDawg]

We've been spending 12 billion dollars a month in Iraq for over 7 years.....no far absolutely no return on that money.....and that money is gone forever

At least the bailout is structured debt. While some of this money will be bad debt the majority will be paid back with interest........Seems I'd much rather spend money to attempt to get Americans back to work than I would to pour it in a dark hole overseas that will never pay off.

In any case, as I have mentioned, Obama is doing his best to repair a situation not of his making. The neos are saying "Why hasn't he fixed the mess we made....You should put us back in there!":D

[BoulderDawg]

Also a fiscal responsibility program called "Paygo" , that was wildly successful during the Clinton years, has been reintroduced to prevent all of this abusive spending the GOP is talking about.........any bets that the GOP will come out against it!:p

[Baqualin]

How much has the debt increased already under the Obama Amin. compared to what it was during the Bush Admin.?

[1bad65]

How much has the debt increased already under the Obama Amin. compared to what it was during the Bush Admin.?

Alot.

Here are the numbers in relation to the budget deficits:

"You won’t find too many defenders of George W. Bush’s record on spending these days, even among Republicans. But a check of historical tables compiled by the Office of Management and Budget shows that the spending that so distressed Pelosi and Reid seems downright modest today. After beginning with a Clinton-era surplus of $128 billion in fiscal year 2001, the Bush administration racked up deficits of $158 billion in 2002, $378 billion in 2003, $413 billion in 2004, $318 billion in 2005, $248 billion in 2006, $162 billion in 2007, and $410 billion in 2008.

The current administration would kill to have such small numbers. President Barack Obama is unveiling his budget this week, and, in addition to the inherited Bush deficit, he’s adding his own spending at an astonishing pace, projecting annual deficits well beyond $1 trillion in the near future, and, in the rosiest possible scenario, a $533 billion deficit in fiscal year 2013, the last year of Obama’s first term."

Source:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Obamas-trillions-dwarf-Bushs-dangerous-spending.html

[1bad65]

Here is a second article about this as well:

"President Obama's ambitious plans to cut middle-class taxes, overhaul health care and expand access to college would require massive borrowing over the next decade, leaving the nation mired far deeper in debt than the White House previously estimated, congressional budget analysts said yesterday.

In the first independent analysis of Obama's budget proposal, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office concluded that Obama's policies would cause government spending to swell above historic levels even after costly programs to ease the recession and stabilize the nation's financial system have ended.

Tax collections, meanwhile, would lag well behind spending, producing huge annual budget deficits that would force the nation to borrow nearly $9.3 trillion over the next decade -- $2.3 trillion more than the president predicted when he unveiled his budget request just one month ago.

The result, according to the CBO, would be an ever-expanding national debt that would exceed 82 percent of the overall economy by 2019 -- double last year's level -- and threaten the nation's financial stability.

"This clearly creates a scenario where the country's going to go bankrupt. It's almost that simple," said Sen. Judd Gregg (N.H.), the senior Republican on the Senate Budget Committee, who briefly considered joining the Obama administration as commerce secretary. "One would hope these numbers would wake somebody up," Gregg said.

The White House's economic assumptions have come under fire for being too optimistic: Over the next decade, the administration projects that the economy will grow at an average annual rate of 2.8 percent, rosier than forecasts by the CBO (2.5 percent) and the Blue Chip economic consensus (2.3 percent)."

Source:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/20/AR2009032001820.html?hpid=topnews

[1bad65]

Obama will likely rack up more debt than GW Bush and Reagan combined. In his first term. :eek:

[1bad65]

When Reagan left office the national debt was $2.6 trillion.
When GW Bush left office it was $10.7 trillion.

Who here actually thinks after 4 years of Obama it will not be over $13.3 trillion?

[1bad65]

How much has the debt increased already under the Obama Amin. compared to what it was during the Bush Admin.?

Here are the numbers in relation to the national debt:

When GW Bush left office the national debt was $10.7 trillion.

Today it is at $11.39 trillion.

Sources:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jan/22/rahm-emanuel/5-trillion-added-national-debt-under-bush/

http://brillig.com/debt_clock/

[David Jamieson]

I would agree that Obama is a lousy economist and is way out of his league in trying to manage the economy in the way he is doing it.

It is his failing point.

By giving money to failing companies, that continue to fail, he in turn has failed, like his predecessor George Bush, who also failed as an economist.

He hasn't started withdrawal from Iraq either and the numbers that have been sent to Afghanistan haven't been shown as of yet to be making any sort of dent of change there.

So, you can look forward to continued recession, possibly depression and continued war in foreign lands that will drain your reserves of both blood and treasure.

What he has changed is the perception of america on the world stage, which ultimately may help america in the long run. Obama is buying time before that debt is called and warding off continued ill will towards america because he represents a mental image of righteous thinking.

despite his actions that are contrary and continue to feed rich people while pressing down poor people.

It's interesting to view though.

[Baqualin]

Here are the numbers in relation to the national debt:

When GW Bush left office the national debt was $10.7 trillion.

Today it is at $11.39 trillion.

Sources:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jan/22/rahm-emanuel/5-trillion-added-national-debt-under-bush/

http://brillig.com/debt_clock/

Thanks....already was aware....just trying to start interesting conversation regarding things that need to be looked at....we are in trouble!
BQ

[Baqualin]

I would agree that Obama is a lousy economist and is way out of his league in trying to manage the economy in the way he is doing it.

It is his failing point.

By giving money to failing companies, that continue to fail, he in turn has failed, like his predecessor George Bush, who also failed as an economist.

He hasn't started withdrawal from Iraq either and the numbers that have been sent to Afghanistan haven't been shown as of yet to be making any sort of dent of change there.

So, you can look forward to continued recession, possibly depression and continued war in foreign lands that will drain your reserves of both blood and treasure.

Not losing to much blood now, but still lots of treasure.... I would love to also pull out of the middle east and let them kill themselves...I have a son in the Army that has been over there twice and may have to go back to Afghanistan with in the year....I want him home and away from there.......but it's harder to get out of there than people realize.....everytime somebody f@rts in the middle east energy prices go up...what do you think the World economic repercussions would be if everybody just up and pulled out (not that I think we should police the world...we are all tired of that)

What he has changed is the perception of america on the world stage, which ultimately may help america in the long run. Obama is buying time before that debt is called and warding off continued ill will towards america because he represents a mental image of righteous thinking.

That's not going to last either if the media doesn't quit portraying him as a God...in particular...MSNBC with statements like Reagan was about America....but Obama is above that...he's about the world...he's like a God:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

despite his actions that are contrary and continue to feed rich people while pressing down poor people.

It's interesting to view though.

Great response David.:)
BQ

[BoulderDawg]

Once again Newt Gingrich shows how to win friends and influence people!

I'm refering to his attack on Obama for saying he was a "Citizen of the world". Of course Newt was insulted that anyone might suggest he was on the same level as another person in Africa, Asia or where ever. Yep! Newt turned up that elitist nose and made it perfectly clear that Americans are so much better than everyone else.

Also never mind that Reagan said the same thing years ago.:D

[BoulderDawg]

By the way did any Neos around notice that some of the banks that received bailout money has started to pay it back?

The US has already made 1.8 billion in interest!:eek:

[Yao Sing]

As mentioned previously, BoulderDawg seems to use the term "neo" in almost every post. Looks like he sees them everywhere, hiding behind every tree and under every rock as well as saturating this forum.

So let's see if he's waving around a blank piece of paper or truly surrounded by "neos".

All you "neos" stand up and be counted. :p

The count so far = 0

[Baqualin]

By the way did any Neos around notice that some of the banks that received bailout money has started to pay it back?

The US has already made 1.8 billion in interest!:eek:

I'm not a Neo, but it would be hard to miss something that is on all forms of news media
world wide.

How is this interest:confused:
BQ

[BoulderDawg]

Interesting story about the shooting at the Holocaust Museum today.

This shooting combined with the killing of Dr Tiller last week kinda shows a trend. Could it be an omen of things to come? All during the election and even to the present day the neos have been preaching the doomsday that will occur now that the Obama admin is in power........Is it now not surprising that the right is turning to terrorism and violence?

[Baqualin]

Interesting story about the shooting at the Holocaust Museum today.

This shooting combined with the killing of Dr Tiller last week kinda shows a trend. Could it be an omen of things to come? All during the election and even to the present day the neos have been preaching the doomsday that will occur now that the Obama admin is in power........Is it now not surprising that the right is turning to terrorism and violence?

It's kinda interesting how you spin things. A wacko and a white supremacist commit a violent crime and you accuse the right of turning to terrorism and violence.....to use a page from your book.....typical NEO-Liberal reponse:rolleyes:
BQ

[1bad65]

It's kinda interesting how you spin things. A wacko and a white supremacist commit a violent crime and you accuse the right of turning to terrorism and violence.....to use a page from your book.....typical NEO-Liberal reponse:rolleyes:
BQ

It's par for the course with that knucklehead.

Just put him on ignore, like me and Drake have done.

His posts are all the same: He makes ridiculous assertions he will never source when asked, he brings up race constantly, and he puts the word "Neo" in every post at least once. It's like a game of Find Waldo. :rolleyes:

[BoulderDawg]

It's kinda interesting how you spin things. A wacko and a white supremacist commit a violent crime and you accuse the right of turning to terrorism and violence.....to use a page from your book.....typical NEO-Liberal reponse:rolleyes:
BQ

Do you know that the standard definition of a neo liberal is?

[BoulderDawg]

The congress has set confirmation hearings for Judge Sotomayer for the supreme court. Of course the neos in congress hit the roof claiming they just don't have enough time to research her before the hearings. However the truth is the time frame set by congress is actually longer than the average.

However the neos in congress are claiming that because she has such a high volume of case work they need at least two years to research her. Anybody want to bet that, sooner or later, the same people saying this will claim that Sotomayor doesn't have the experience to sit on the supreme court!:D

[BoulderDawg]

It's par for the course with that knucklehead.

Just put him on ignore, like me and Drake have done.

His posts are all the same: He makes ridiculous assertions he will never source when asked, he brings up race constantly, and he puts the word "Neo" in every post at least once. It's like a game of Find Waldo. :rolleyes:

Typical neo. Run from a debate. I don't put anybody on ignore. I'm interested in the opinions of all people who may agree or disagree with me.

I take that back. I did put one person on ignore. Only because his posts just consist of

"You are a "Fill in the blank four letter word"".

That was about the only comment this guy would make. Now I would not even mind that if that the guy would have tried to explain why I was a "****" or a "****" but he never did.:D

[1bad65]

Interesting results in Virginia:

"State Sen. R. Creigh Deeds, the most conservative of the three candidates running for the Democratic nomination for governor in Virginia, annihilated his opponents Tuesday.

Virginia Democrats nominated state Sen. R. Creigh Deeds on Tuesday to carry the party mantle in the gubernatorial race this fall. By picking Deeds, the most conservative of the three candidates, state Democrats proved willing to look beyond the base and nominate a candidate who could appeal more to independents and even Republicans in the general election.

Deeds took 50 percent of the vote in the three-way race. Terry McAuliffe, former chairman of the Democratic National Committee, took 26 percent. Brian Moran, a former Virginia delegate, took 24 percent."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/10/virginia-primary-state-democrats-race-center/

Beating McAuliffe, who has huge name recognition and a massive personal fortune, by almost 2-1 is pretty impressive.

[1bad65]

On the other coast, lets see what electing tax-and-spend liberals for decades gets you:

"California's government risks a financial "meltdown" within 50 days in light of its weakening May revenues unless Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and lawmakers quickly plug a $24.3 billion budget gap, the state's controller said on Wednesday.

Additionally, the revenues of the government of the most populous U.S. state fell short of estimates in Schwarzenegger's budget plan by $827 million, Chiang said.

He warned California's state government is speeding toward a financial disaster unless officials act urgently to balance its books.

Schwarzenegger, a Republican, has proposed filling the state's budget gap with deep spending cuts, borrowing from local governments and by scrapping some state programs, including its welfare program.

Democrats who control the legislature are crafting a rival budget plan that includes spending cuts and saves programs Schwarzenegger has proposed eliminating. They instead would use reserves estimated in his budget to narrow the budget gap."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090610/pl_nm/us_economy_california_revenues

At least Schwarzenegger wants to cut real waste. This is quite interesting to watch, as Obama's tax-borrow-spend policies will likely put the entire country in a similar fiscal mess as California's.

[1bad65]

Wow, another racist remark by a liberal.

"If you were thinking the Rev. Jeremiah Wright had been tempered by a national backlash that nearly derailed Barack Obama's trip to the White House, guess again.

In an exclusive interview at the 95th annual Hampton University Ministers' Conference, Wright told the Daily Press that he has not spoken to his former church member since Obama became president, and he implied that the White House won't allow Obama to talk to him.

"Them Jews ain't going to let him talk to me," Wright said. "I told my baby daughter that he'll talk to me in five years when he's a lame duck, or in eight years when he's out of office. ...

"They will not let him to talk to somebody who calls a spade what it is. ... I said from the beginning: He's a politician; I'm a pastor. He's got to do what politicians do."

Wright also said Obama should have sent a U.S. delegation to the World Conference on Racism held recently in Geneva, Switzerland, but that the president did not for fear of offending Jews and Israel. He specifically cited the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, an influential pro-Israel lobbying group."

http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-local_wright_0610jun10,0,7603283.story

What a piece of garbage, and a hypocrite. A racist upset that we didn't attend some conference on racism.

[Drake]

The biggest mistake ever made with Wright was giving him any media exposure whatsoever.

And you do have to wonder in what wys he might have influenced the president. I'm no religious man, but I know how important pastors are to people in terms of guidance and spiritual growth. While he might not have made any outright inflammaory comments to the pres during this time, who knows what sort of ideas he managed to get into his head.

And we didn't attend the conference on racism because it was a racist conference. Makes sense to me. It seems odd that the largely racist Europeans would feel comfortable making any comments about our lack of attendance, but that's another story. And nobody say Europeans aren't racist, because they are. I've had black friends not allowed into clubs because they were black, among countless other things.

[BoulderDawg]

Yes, after yesterday's shooting at the Holocaust Museum the neo spin machine has started damage control.

I saw a snip of Glenn Beck's show last night where he said two groups are under attack in American, The Jews and Conservatives....:D

Hmmmmm.....Anybody want to take any bets on who that Neo-Nazi that shot up the museum yesterday voted for in the last election?

No matter though. I don't think the Jews are dumb enough to be swayed by Glen Beck and other neos that are just using a situation as a political tool. Rev Wright used poor judgement and choice of words but so what? He's just a preacher with no political power. I'm assuming he has the same rights to freedom of speech as all the Neos who constantly dis the "Muslims" and "Arabs". What's the difference?

Ha! Speaking of religion, I saw a video clip on the news where some Christian group was anointing and blessing the door to the US Congress with some kind of oil.:D Imagine the hell that would have been raised had a group of American Muslims held some sort of ceremony like that.....To start with they would have been hauled off by security after about 2-3 minutes!:p

[BoulderDawg]

I've had black friends not allowed into clubs because they were black, among countless other things.

Seems like you and your "black friends" really get around. Haven't you told us stories in the past about how you have fought for your "black Friends" when attacked by racists?:D

[1bad65]

And you do have to wonder in what wys he might have influenced the president. I'm no religious man, but I know how important pastors are to people in terms of guidance and spiritual growth. While he might not have made any outright inflammaory comments to the pres during this time, who knows what sort of ideas he managed to get into his head.

Notice how the media always dumps on the 'Religious Right' as a bunch of wackos, yet gives the liberal Obama a pass despite having a racist, extremist pastor himself.

[1bad65]

And we didn't attend the conference on racism because it was a racist conference. Makes sense to me. It seems odd that the largely racist Europeans would feel comfortable making any comments about our lack of attendance, but that's another story. And nobody say Europeans aren't racist, because they are. I've had black friends not allowed into clubs because they were black, among countless other things.

Europeans have historically been extremely racist. What continent did the Holocaust happen in? Where is Bosnia at? What continent had decades of pogroms? And it's common knowledge the Nazis job in murdering millions of Jews was made easier by citizenry in many occupied countries actually helping the Germans round up Jews because of their own hatred of Jews.

[BoulderDawg]

What continent did the Holocaust happen in?

Which one? The genocide of the Indian people on the North American continent was much larger and more savage.

Or maybe the slaughter of the aborigne people in Australia?

[David Jamieson]

Notice how the media always dumps on the 'Religious Right' as a bunch of wackos, yet gives the liberal Obama a pass despite having a racist, extremist pastor himself.

You think he was given a pass? that's all fox blabbed about and you too. When you type it out for the masses to read, or broadcast it, that's "the media".

[David Jamieson]

Which one? The genocide of the Indian people on the North American continent was much larger and more savage.

Or maybe the slaughter of the aborigne people in Australia?

It wasn't larger. There were far less people. Native and Indigenous peoples in the Americas are not gone, they were not wiped out and they have more rights than you or I in many respects.

Are you actually prepared to pay for the sins of your father? your grandfather? Your great grandfather?

Look at it this way, do you take personal responsibility for the people who have died in Iraq or Afghanistan? If not why not? You pay taxes to the government who carried out the deeds with your financial support.

[BoulderDawg]

It wasn't larger. There were far less people. Native and Indigenous peoples in the Americas are not gone, they were not wiped out and they have more rights than you or I in many respects.

It's not even close. Give me some time and I will quote some stats but the holocaust in America was multiple times worse.

By the way genocide is a termed first describe by Raphael Lemkin in 1944. The attempted total elimination of a culture or race is only the most drastic definition. You can committ genocide or the genocide of a culture in many ways.

[1bad65]

You think he was given a pass? that's all fox blabbed about and you too. When you type it out for the masses to read, or broadcast it, that's "the media".

He was given a pass, to an extent. Obviously, they couldn't ignore him. But when you compare the coverage he got, vs the coverage a Republican candidate gets for say going to Bob Jones University, you can say he was given a pass.

[BoulderDawg]

http://www.monabaker.com/pMachine/more.php?id=A2068_0_1_0_M

During the four centuries spanning the time between 1492, when Christopher Columbus first set foot on the ‘New World’ of a Caribbean beach and 1892, when the US Census Bureau concluded that there were fewer than a quarter-million indigenous people surviving within the country’s boundaries, a hemispheric population estimated to have been as great as 125 million was reduced by something over 90 percent. The people had died in their millions of being hacked apart with axes and swords, buried alive and trampled under horses, hunted as game and fed to dogs, shot, beaten, stabbed, scalped for bounty, hanged on meathooks and thrown over the sides of ships at sea, worked to death as slave laborers, intentionally starved and frozen to death during a multitude of forced marches and internments, and, in an unknown number of instances, deliberately infected with epidemic diseases. (p. 1)

Later in the book he gives a staggering estimate of the total who were ‘ethnically cleansed’: ‘All told, it is probable that more than one hundred million native people were ‘eliminated’ in the course of Europe’s ongoing ‘civilization’ of the western hemisphere.’(p. 86) (Emphasis added)

Yet this ghastly history is denied, suppressed, minimized or even celebrated by deniers of what Ward Churchill calls the American holocaust. The director of the National Endowment for the Humanities, Lynne Cheney, in collaboration with the US Senate, during preparations for the 1992 celebration of Columbus Day, refused to fund any film production which proposed to use the word ‘genocide’ to explain the liquidation of Native Americans. Charles Krauthamer used one of his Time Magazine columns (May 27, 1991) to claim that the extermination of Native Americans was entirely justified because it wiped out ‘barbarisms’ like the Inca community (notwithstanding that pre-Columbian Inca art has been compared favorably with the achievements of classical Greece, e.g. by Malcolm Billings in a recent BBC Heritage episode on central America). Arthur Schlesinger, Churchill continues, is prarphrased by David Stannard as asserting that without the European conquests and slaughter, at least some New World societies would today be sufficiently unpleasant places to live so as to make acceptable the centuries of genocide that were carried out against the native peoples of the entire Western Hemisphere. (p. 4)

The is from a review of "A Little Matter of Genocide" Ward Churchill

nuff said

[1bad65]

It wasn't larger. There were far less people. Native and Indigenous peoples in the Americas are not gone, they were not wiped out and they have more rights than you or I in many respects.

Are you actually prepared to pay for the sins of your father? your grandfather? Your great grandfather?

Look at it this way, do you take personal responsibility for the people who have died in Iraq or Afghanistan? If not why not? You pay taxes to the government who carried out the deeds with your financial support.

Me and you disagree alot, but I'll give you a word of advice.

Ignore him. But if you are a glutton for punishment, ask him to source his allegations. ;)

Remember, just about everything he writes about American Indians is info he got from a white guy with a spray-on tan pretending to be an Indian. And yes, even that poseur himself has been forced to backtrack and admit he can't source most of his allegations either (as writing a book under a fake name and using it as a source does not count). See a pattern here? ;)

[BoulderDawg]

Me and you disagree alot, but I'll give you a word of advice.

Ignore him. But if you are a glutton for punishment, ask for him to source his allegations. ;)

Remember, just about everything he writes about American Indidans is info he got from a white guy with a spray-on tan pretending to be an Indian. And yes, even that poseur himself has been forced to backtrack and admit he can't source most of his allegations either (as writing a book under a fake name and using it as a source does not count). See a pattern here? ;)

To me this is a main tenant of the different between conservatives and liberals.

Personally I would never tell anyone to ignore the opinion of someone else. It's called being open minded. Also, I like to hear the views of everyone in forming my opinion of something.

[David Jamieson]

He was given a pass, to an extent. Obviously, they couldn't ignore him. But when you compare the coverage he got, vs the coverage a Republican candidate gets for say going to Bob Jones University, you can say he was given a pass.

ok, there's a bob jones university? lol

seriously, come on. obama was roasted and lambasted for days over the wright flap.

I don't remember too much negative stuff about McCain except that people pointed out that he fully supported Bush and would in essence be McSame. Another thing I remember is the high number or republicans who indicated they believed in creationism over evolution. Which was stunning! lol

seriously though, I didn't mind McCain at all, I just think he should've been Pres oevr the terms where W was. W didn't deserve the presidency and McCain was teh superior statesman and politician in general.

but that was a failing of the GOP and now they are paying for it big time.

Not only did w drop the ball from a fiscal responsibility standpoint, he left such a hugely bad legacy that the GOP won't see a presidency for a while no matter who thy put up and if they don't stop with the ridiculous pandering to the religious right wing, they are gonna continue to be unpopular and fragmented from within, which is a shame because there are some really solid republican thinkers out there.

It's the format of american politics that has become too much like the crap mayonnaise they serve as entertainment on TV.

It behooves the entire system to stop that sort of nonsense and move on with real world actions and policies instead of freakshow politics and grandstanding.

I find democrats to generally be scattered in their thinking and knee jerk in their responses to problems, not that they don't have great minds and orators as well, it's just that they attract their own share of pinko fruitloops.

The whole country is now politically bi-polar and has been for almost a decade. If Obama can't change that, he won't see a second term. He has to do more than just plopping prominent republicans into power as well. He has to put critical republicans that are strong thinkers into power as opposed to cardboard cutouts that appeal to a given demograph.

then and only then would I give him the Lincolnesque analogy. lol :p

People are still drunk on the idea that a dem is potus and bush is gone.
As they lose their property and get policed more, the song will change. Hope it won't be too late!

just sayin.

[David Jamieson]

http://www.monabaker.com/pMachine/more.php?id=A2068_0_1_0_M



The is from a review of "A Little Matter of Genocide" Ward Churchill

nuff said

I disagree with those estimates. The fact of the matter is, they don't know how many people were killed. Also, do you think that the mayans, the aztecs the mixtecs, the toltects, the arapaho, the navaho, the apache, the cheyenne and so on didn't kill each other off as well in their own wars, in their own land grabs and territorial stuggles? Can you even grasp that aspect of humanity?

also, I would like to complain about all the danes, swedes and norwegians who took over scotland and killed off the original inhabitants.

while we're at it, let's ask for reparations from rome for wiping out our ancestors from asia to judea to germania to england!

so, again, are you prepared to take on the sins of your father?

if so, please sign over all your properties and lands to the nearest native american you can find and gtfo of the country. it's that simple if you believe it to be so.

[1bad65]

Good points, David. I actually agree with a good bit of it. :eek:

I'll touch on this though:

Not only did w drop the ball from a fiscal responsibility standpoint, he left such a hugely bad legacy that the GOP won't see a presidency for a while no matter who thy put up and if they don't stop with the ridiculous pandering to the religious right wing, they are gonna continue to be unpopular and fragmented from within, which is a shame because there are some really solid republican thinkers out there.

Read my post about the Democrat primary for Governor in Virginia. And remember, Virginia is widely considered a 'battleground state'. Notice the Democrat who won easily was the one who ran furthest RIGHT.

While I agree W Bush left a alot of people disenchanted with the Republicans, more and more Americans are quite upset with Obama's radical socialist policies. I huge majority of Americans feel he was wrong on the automotive issue, and publicly calling for socialized medicine was why the Democrats got mauled in 1994.

[1bad65]

I disagree with those estimates. The fact of the matter is, they don't know how many people were killed. Also, do you think that the mayans, the aztecs the mixtecs, the toltects, the arapaho, the navaho, the apache, the cheyenne and so on didn't kill each other off as well in their own wars, in their own land grabs and territorial stuggles? Can you even grasp that aspect of humanity?

You disagree with those estimates? Well, you're in good company. So does just about every academic who actually studied that part of history. That poseur is considered a joke by REAL academics. Under oath he has had to admit he cannot back up his assertions.

When somone has to write a book under a fake name to use as a source, you know he is full of ****.

[Baqualin]

Neo-Con a word BD worships.
WASHINGTON, Aug 12 (IPS) - With all the attention paid to neo-conservatives in the global media today, one would think that a standard definition of the term would exist. Yet, despite their now being credited with a virtual takeover of U.S. foreign policy under President George W. Bush, a common understanding of 'neo-cons' remains elusive.

A brief description of their basic tenets and origin can help distinguish them from other parts of the ideological coalition behind the administration's neo-imperialist trajectory; namely, the traditional Republican Machtpolitikers (Might Makes Right), such as Vice President **** Cheney and Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld, and the Christian Rightists, such as Attorney General John Ashcroft, Gary Bauer, and Pat Robertson.

As neo-con godfather Irving Kristol once remarked, a neo-conservative is a ''liberal who was mugged by reality''. True to that description, neo-cons generally originated on the left side of the political spectrum and some times from the far left. Many, such as Kristol himself, have Trotskyite roots that are still reflected in their polemical and organisational skills and ideological zeal.

Although a number of prominent Catholics are neo-conservatives, the movement remains predominantly Jewish, and the monthly journal that really defined neo-conservatism over the past 35 years, 'Commentary', is published by the American Jewish Committee. But at the same time, neo-conservative attitudes have reflected a minority position within the U.S. Jewish community, as most Jews remain distinctly liberal in their political and foreign-policy views.

Neo-conservative foreign-policy positions, which have their origin in opposition to the New Left of the 1960s, fears over a return to U.S. isolationism during the Vietnam War and the progressive international isolation of Israel in the wake of wars with its Arab neighbours in 1967 and 1973, have been tactically very flexible over the past 35 years, but its key principles have remained the same.

They begin with the basic foreign-policy realism found in the pessimistic views of human nature and international diplomacy of the English political philosopher, Thomas Hobbes, which neo-cons share with most U.S. practitioners: ''the condition of man (in a state of nature) ... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone". Or as Machiavelli, another favourite thinker of the neo-cons, wrote: ''Men are more ready for evil than for good.''

But neo-cons take ''man's'' capacity for evil particularly seriously, and for understandable reasons.

For them, the Nazi Holocaust that killed some six million Jews during World War II is the seminal experience of the 20th century. Not only was it a genocide unparalleled in its thoroughness, the Holocaust also wiped out family members of hundreds of thousands of Jewish citizens in the United States, including, for example, close relatives of the parents of Deputy Defence Secretary Paul Wolfowitz.

For neo-conservatives, as for most Jews, the Holocaust represents absolute evil, and the factors that contributed to the rise of Adolf Hitler in Germany and the subsequent extermination of European must be fought at all costs..

The "defining moment in our history was certainly the Holocaust'', Richard Perle, a key neo-con and leading advocate of war with Iraq, recently told BBC's 'Panorama'. ''It was the destruction, the genocide of a whole people, and it was the failure to respond in a timely fashion to a threat that was clearly gathering."

''We don't want that to happen again ... when we have the ability to stop totalitarian regimes we should do so, because when we fail to do so, the results are catastrophic,'' he said.

For neo-conservatives, the 1938 Munich agreement, under which Hitler was permitted by Britain and France to take over Czechoslovakia, is the epitome of appeasement that led directly to the Holocaust. As a result, Munich and appeasement are constantly invoked in their rhetoric as a way to summon up the will to resist and defeat the enemy of the day.

[BoulderDawg]

You disagree with those estimates? Well, you're in good company. So does just about every academic who actually studied that part of history. That poseur is considered a joke by REAL academics.

Totally ignorant statement colored by your hatred of the man.

Are you an academic or very familiar with the academics in this field? Churchill's work is well respected by the vast majority of academics in the field of indigeous studies.

[Baqualin]

Good points, David. I actually agree with a good bit of it. :eek:

I'll touch on this though:



Read my post about the Democrat primary for Governor in Virginia. And remember, Virginia is widely considered a 'battleground state'. Notice the Democrat who won easily was the one who ran furthest RIGHT.

While I agree W Bush left a alot of people disenchanted with the Republicans, more and more Americans are quite upset with Obama's radical socialist policies. I huge majority of Americans feel he was wrong on the automotive issue, and publicly calling for socialized medicine was why the Democrats got mauled in 1994.

According to polls....36% of American voters are now claiming to be independents.....34% Democrats .....14% Republicans

Light at the end of the tunnel:D
BQ

[BoulderDawg]

You disagree with those estimates? Well, you're in good company. So does just about every academic who actually studied that part of history. That poseur is considered a joke by REAL academics. Under oath he has had to admit he cannot back up his assertions.

When somone has to write a book under a fake name to use as a source, you know he is full of ****.


One other thing: Bad is simply saying this never happened. According to him, Churchill is wrong.....this never happened.

When someone tells me the violent deaths of over a 100 million Americans never really happened I'm as apalled as much as I would be if someone was trying to deny the holocaust in Europe.

[Baqualin]

Totally ignorant statement colored by your hatred of the man.

Are you an academic or very familiar with the academics in this field? Churchill's work is well respected by the vast majority of academics in the field of indigeous studies.

Show proof:)
I think you upset him Bad;)
BQ

[Baqualin]

Seems like you and your "black friends" really get around. Haven't you told us stories in the past about how you have fought for your "black Friends" when attacked by racists?:D

Wrong person....that was me....and I considered them my friends...not black friends. I also said that I would stand by your side if I was there while someone was harassing you for being a fake Indian....I don't like people who bully people period....no matter the color

[Baqualin]

One other thing: Bad is simply saying this never happened. According to him, Churchill is wrong.....this never happened.

When someone tells me the violent deaths of over a 100 million Americans never really happened I'm as apalled as much as I would be if someone was trying to deny the holocaust in Europe.

Where did he say this.....he only said your stretching the numbers

[BoulderDawg]

Show proof:)



Here's a start:

http://wardchurchill.net/academic.html

However in the trail they just had the vast majority of his attackers were non-academic.

Your turn: Show proof of academic professors and scholars well respected in the field of indigeious studies who discredit Churchill. Of course everyone has their critics but you claim that for the most part Ward has been kicked out on his ear by the community...prove that!:D

[Baqualin]

Here's a start:

http://wardchurchill.net/academic.html

However in the trail they just had the vast majority of his attackers were non-academic.

You turn: Show proof of academic professors and scholars well respected in the field of indigeious studies who discredit Churchill. Of course everyone has their critics but you claim that for the most part Ward has been kicked out on his ear by the community...prove that!:D

Great response.....you used a Ward Churchill website.....awesome:rolleyes:

[1bad65]

Show proof:)
I think you upset him Bad;)
BQ

Asking for proof always upsets him. ;)

I'm guessing he has not sourced his wild claims, has he? :D

[1bad65]

Where did he say this.....he only said your stretching the numbers

Don't facts get in his way.

[1bad65]

Great response.....you used a Ward Churchill website.....awesome:rolleyes:

It's hilarious watching the guy who has never sourced a single allegation constantly demand others provide sources. :rolleyes:

[Baqualin]

Been fun today...got to get to work.....have a nice day:p
BQ

[BoulderDawg]

Just wondering why I'm seeing David Letterman on TV bending over and grabbing his ankles apologizing to Sarah Palin.

He has nothing to apologize for. My guess is that half of Alaska has hit either one daughter or the other....probably the vast majority has done both!:eek::D

[David Jamieson]

According to polls....36% of American voters are now claiming to be independents.....34% Democrats .....14% Republicans

Light at the end of the tunnel:D
BQ

Where are the bodies of the other 16% of americans? :mad:


:p

[1bad65]

Where are the bodies of the other 16% of americans? :mad:

I wondered that too.

Generally, I've heard that around 30% are Democrats, 30% are Republicans, and 40% are 'The Great Undecideds'.

[1bad65]

It's more obvious on another poll:

"By 58 percent to 38 percent voters across the country say they disapprove of the government takeover and majority ownership stake in General Motors.

Opinion Dynamics Corp. conducted the national telephone poll of 900 registered voters for FOX News from June 9 to June 10. The poll has a 3-point error margin.

Among the car companies tested, Ford — which has not taken government bailout money — has the highest favorable rating at 72 percent, followed by Honda at 69 percent favorable. Just under half of Americans have a positive view of General Motors (48 percent) and Chrysler (46 percent).

Labor unions have been front and center in the government's rescue of GM — and Chrysler as well. The largest number of Americans — 43 percent — think labor unions have too much influence on the Obama administration, 29 percent say the right amount and 12 percent too little influence."

Source:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525861,00.html

[Drake]

My kingdom for a really awesome president.

Preferably neither democrat nor republican.

[David Jamieson]

My kingdom for a really awesome president.

Preferably neither democrat nor republican.

How about a Raelien?

[Baqualin]

Where are the bodies of the other 16% of americans? :mad:


:p

In Canada:)

[Baqualin]

Just wondering why I'm seeing David Letterman on TV bending over and grabbing his ankles apologizing to Sarah Palin.

He has nothing to apologize for. My guess is that half of Alaska has hit either one daughter or the other....probably the vast majority has done both!:eek::D

Man you are a sick bastarhd......it's apparent you have never raised any children.....if your a representation of a true liberal.....Help us all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Baqualin]

Looks like public hospitals in British Columbia, Canada, will have to cut patient services in order to comply with global warming laws established by the provincial government. The Surrey Leader reports:

The Lower Mainland’s health authorities will have to dig more than $4 million a year out of their already stretched budgets to pay B.C.�s carbon tax and offset their carbon footprints. Critics say the payments mean the government’s strategy to fight climate change will further exacerbate a crisis in health funding.

“You have public hospitals cutting services to pay a tax that goes to another 100 per cent government-owned agency,” NDP health critic Adrian Dix said.
“That just doesn’t make sense.” The Fraser Health Authority will pay $616,000 in carbon tax this year, rising to $821,000 next year, officials there said.

And by 2010 Fraser will also be paying $1.3 million a year to the province’s Pacific Carbon Trust to offset its projected 52,600 tonnes of carbon emissions release. Vancouver Coastal Health Authority also expects its costs will be close to $2 million next year in combined carbon tax and offset payments.

And while human life is threatened, of course, the stated objective of global warming kooks is once again undermined:

Dix warned that some of the potential cuts - such as closing the ER at Mission Memorial Hospital - would actually increase carbon emissions by sending patients further afield. “Obviously when you shut down regional centres it makes people travel ****her to get to their health care facility,” he said. Meanwhile a hospital executive states his greater concern for plant life than heartbeats:

Vancouver Coastal chief financial officer Duncan Campbell said his health authority believes the payments are appropriate and isn’t asking for any exemption from Victoria. “For us to go back and ask for an exemption wouldn’t fit in well with our green care plans,” he said.

Getting scary guys.

[BoulderDawg]

Man you are a sick bastarhd

Yep! Totally f'ing wack!!!!!!:D Most of us liberals are.....That's the reason the neos love us so much!:p

[Baqualin]

Could Cap and Trade Cause Another Market Meltdown?

By Rachel Morris, Mother Jones News

You’ve heard of credit default swaps and subprime mortgages. Are carbon default swaps and subprime offsets next? If the Waxman-Markey climate bill is signed into law, it will generate, almost as an afterthought, a new market for carbon derivatives. That market will be vast, complicated, and dauntingly difficult to monitor. And if Washington doesn’t get the rules right, it will be vulnerable to speculation and manipulation by the very same players who brought us the financial meltdown.

Cap and trade would create what Commodity Futures Trading commissioner Bart Chilton anticipates as a $2 trillion market, “the biggest of any [commodities] derivatives product in the next five years.” That derivatives market will be based on two main instruments. First, there are the carbon allowance permits that form the nuts and bolts of any cap-and-trade scheme. Under cap and trade, the government would issue permits that allow companies to emit a certain amount of greenhouse gases. Companies that emit too much can buy allowances from companies that produce less than their limit. Then there are carbon offsets, which allow companies to emit greenhouse gases in excess of a federally mandated cap if they invest in a project that cuts emissions somewhere else - usually in developing countries. Polluters can pay Brazilian villagers to not cut down trees, for instance, or Filipino farmers to trap methane in pig manure.

In addition to trading the allowances and offsets themselves, participants in carbon markets can also deal in their derivatives - such as futures contracts to deliver a certain number of allowances at an agreed price and time. These instruments will be traded not only by polluters that need to buy credits to comply with environmental regulations, but also by financial services firms. In fact, a study (PDF) by Duke University’s Nicholas Institute for Environmental Policy Solutions anticipates that if the United States passes a cap-and-trade law, the derivatives trade will probably exceed the market for the allowances themselves. “We are on the verge of creating a new trillion-dollar market in financial assets that will be securitized, derivatized, and speculated by Wall Street like the mortgage-backed securities market,” says Robert Shapiro, a former undersecretary of commerce in the Clinton administration and a cofounder of the US Climate Task Force.

Banks like JPMorgan Chase, Morgan Stanley, and Goldman Sachs already have active carbon trading desks that deal in instruments connected to Europe’s cap-and-trade system and voluntary markets here. But business will explode if a cap-and-trade system becomes law. So it’s no surprise that the financial industry has taken an intense interest20in the fine print of the Waxman-Markey bill. According to data compiled by the Center for Public Integrity, the financial services industry has 130 lobbyists working on climate issues, compared to almost none in 2003. They represent companies like Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase, and AIG (before it was shamed into temporarily halting its lobbying activities last fall). The industry “wants lawmakers to create a brand-new revenue stream for its bottom line, and cap and trade would do it,” says Tyson Slocum of Public Citizen, who is a member of a Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) advisory committee considering how carbon trading should be regulated.

Lots of money getting ready to be made.

[Baqualin]

Yep! Totally f'ing wack!!!!!!:D Most of us liberals are.....That's the reason the neos love us so much!:p

That wasn't the first time you've made comments regarding young girls....PERV....you need to be put on a list....you probably watch kiddie porn.....like little boys too?:(

[BoulderDawg]

That wasn't the first time you've made comments regarding young girls....PERV....you need to be put on a list....you probably watch kiddie porn.....like little boys too?:(


Oh yeah.......Didn't you know all of us liberals are like that! We watch gay commie kiddie snuff films, eat dead babies and worship the devil!:eek:

[FuXnDajenariht]

In a word "NO"

I'm actually regretting that i volunteered for the guy.

He puts a charming smile on the new world order, and we get to pat ourselves on the back that he's the first non white person elected. I'd rather someone who knew what they were doing, white or black.

....and no it wasn't gonna be any different with McCain or Hilary.

[Drake]

Is anyone here even a republican? I think most of the true conservatives went independent a loooong time ago.

[Baqualin]

Is anyone here even a republican? I think most of the true conservatives went independent a loooong time ago.

You bet!!! Hey Drake what do you think about the reading of miranda rights to enemy combatants in the field.:mad:
BQ

[Baqualin]

In a word "NO"

I'm actually regretting that i volunteered for the guy.

He puts a charming smile on the new world order, and we get to pat ourselves on the back that he's the first non white person elected. I'd rather someone who knew what they were doing, white or black.

....and no it wasn't gonna be any different with McCain or Hilary.

I didn't vote for him for that reason...no experience, but I felt like I should support my President and have up until this point...now I have no confidence in him.:o

[1bad65]

Maybe BD knows this guy!

"FBI agents visited the offices of the conservative Weekly Standard magazine yesterday after a shooting at the Holocaust Memorial Museum and told employees they'd found the magazine's address.

The magazine is about a mile north of the Holocaust Museum, and there's no other indication that von Brunn had targeted it. Von Brunn's published rants included attacks on "neocons," and the Standard has been at the heart of the neoconservative movement.

The suggestion that the Standard may have been a target complicates any view of the racist shooter in contemporary left-right terms. Von Brunn's white supremacist roots put him under the rubric of a "right-wing extremist," but the substance of his views -- which included everything from believing that President Bush may have been in on the September 11 attacks to denying that President Obama is an American citizen -- are too far on the fringe to fit into conventional political classification.

The focus on the Standard, though, appears to be of a piece with his central motivation: Anti-Semitism. In one essay, Von Brunn attacked "JEWS-NEOCONS-BILL O’REILLY," and the suggestion that neoconservatism is a specifically Jewish conspiracy is common on the racist fringe."

Source:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0609/Weekly_Standard_may_have_been_shooter_target.html

[Baqualin]

Maybe BD knows this guy!

"FBI agents visited the offices of the conservative Weekly Standard magazine yesterday after a shooting at the Holocaust Memorial Museum and told employees they'd found the magazine's address.

The magazine is about a mile north of the Holocaust Museum, and there's no other indication that von Brunn had targeted it. Von Brunn's published rants included attacks on "neocons," and the Standard has been at the heart of the neoconservative movement.

The suggestion that the Standard may have been a target complicates any view of the racist shooter in contemporary left-right terms. Von Brunn's white supremacist roots put him under the rubric of a "right-wing extremist," but the substance of his views -- which included everything from believing that President Bush may have been in on the September 11 attacks to denying that President Obama is an American citizen -- are too far on the fringe to fit into conventional political classification.

The focus on the Standard, though, appears to be of a piece with his central motivation: Anti-Semitism. In one essay, Von Brunn attacked "JEWS-NEOCONS-BILL O’REILLY," and the suggestion that neoconservatism is a specifically Jewish conspiracy is common on the racist fringe."

Source:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0609/Weekly_Standard_may_have_been_shooter_target.html


Maybe it's his long lost brother:eek:

[BoulderDawg]

Yeah, I saw where the neo right is attempting to paint Von Brunn as a liberal....I just laugh.:D

The truth is Von Brunn is so far gone in his mental capacity that he longer really cares how anybody might feel about his views and opinions. Because of this he simply cannot understand why his like-minded comrades can't come out in public and say "I hate Jews" or "The holocaust never happened." He simply can't comprehend that while probably about 90% of neocons totally agree with the above statements they can't come out in public and say so.

I've seen similar accusations from crazies on the left. Normally it's a super radical who's view's are so narrowly ridged that no one could really support them.

These people are so swept up in their cause that you're either 100% behind them or you are their enemy.


Painting Von Brunn as a liberal........doesn't really surprise me. That's neo stragedy to automatically paint a murderer as a liberal...par for the course.

[Baqualin]

Yeah, I saw where the neo right is attempting to paint Von Brunn as a liberal....I just laugh.:D


Painting Von Brunn as a liberal........doesn't really surprise me. That's neo stragedy to automatically paint a murderer as a liberal...par for the course.


Originally Posted by BoulderDawg
Interesting story about the shooting at the Holocaust Museum today.

This shooting combined with the killing of Dr Tiller last week kinda shows a trend. Could it be an omen of things to come? All during the election and even to the present day the neos have been preaching the doomsday that will occur now that the Obama admin is in power........Is it now not surprising that the right is turning to terrorism and violence?


HYPOCRITE:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[1bad65]

[/B]


Originally Posted by BoulderDawg
Interesting story about the shooting at the Holocaust Museum today.

This shooting combined with the killing of Dr Tiller last week kinda shows a trend. Could it be an omen of things to come? All during the election and even to the present day the neos have been preaching the doomsday that will occur now that the Obama admin is in power........Is it now not surprising that the right is turning to terrorism and violence?


HYPOCRITE:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Once I again I remind you putting him on ignore will save you a ton of frustration.

The guy is a racist, hypocrite, lying, space cadet who worships a white guy with a spray-on tan pretending to be an Indian.

But yeah, you sure nailed him there. First the guy was this "Neo" who was "turning to terrorism and violence", then when it came out he was politically close to BD, his tune sure changed.

[1bad65]

Maybe it's his long lost brother:eek:

Well, they both speak the same garbage and are racist....

[1bad65]

"A jury convicted the man who calls himself Clark Rockefeller of kidnapping his daughter during an unsupervised visit in Boston.

The Germany-born Rockefeller — whose real name is Christian Karl Gerhartsreiter — also was found guilty of one count of assault Friday but acquitted of another and of a charge of giving a false name to police.

Gerhartsreiter spun fantastic tales about himself during three decades in the United States, including a tale that he was a member of the elite, wealthy Rockefeller family."

Source:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,526020,00.html

Well, he must be an expert on all things Rockefeller. After all; according to BD's train of thought, if you pretend to be something you are not, you are automatically an expert on it.

[BoulderDawg]

But yeah, you sure nailed him there. First the guy was this "Neo" who was "turning to terrorism and violence", then when it came out he was politically close to BD, his tune sure changed.

I'll play. Just what exactly are Von Brunn liberal ideals? I see nothing that remotely paints him as a liberal. Also, it's my guess that he would violently deny it himself. He would also deny being a Neocon.....but so does people like O'Reilly!:D


I still say this is only the tip of the iceberg. There are plenty of Von Brunn's out there who buy into this neo crap philosophy that with Obama we probably won't even be alive in eight years. It's just a matter of time before something else happens: Hate crime against black/jews/others, abortion shooting or political assination. Of course when it happens the shooter will immediately be identified as a leftist no matter who he shot or what his cause was.:D

[Baqualin]

I'll play. Just what exactly are Von Brunn liberal ideals? I see nothing that remotely paints him as a liberal. Also, it's my guess that he would violently deny it himself. He would also deny being a Neocon.....but so does people like O'Reilly!:D


I still say this is only the tip of the iceberg. There are plenty of Von Brunn's out there who buy into this neo crap philosophy that with Obama we probably won't even be alive in eight years. It's just a matter of time before something else happens: Hate crime against black/jews/others, abortion shooting or political assination. Of course when it happens the shooter will immediately be identified as a leftist no matter who he shot or what his cause was.:D

When I thought you couldn't get any further out there:eek:you just did.....this post has no logical rhyme or reason to it at all.......your funny, thanks for entertaining me!
BQ

[BoulderDawg]

When I thought you couldn't get any further out there:eek:you just did.....this post has no logical rhyme or reason to it at all.......your funny, thanks for entertaining me!
BQ


I thought the question was fairly simple and straight forward:

If Von Brunn is a liberal then what liberal philosophies does he espouse?

I think it comes down to: Are you interested in an adult conservation about political ideology or are you more interested in a child's game of get back?

That said I doubt sincerely I'll get any kind of answer to this question.:D