2 meanings of the tap

[Becca]

Ok, this forum is so dead even the dumn political threads are dying off.... let's argue about something already!

Here's a snipet from Saturday's grapplearts newsletter; discuss:


THE TWO MEANINGS OF THE TAP Tapping out is sending a message to your opponent. The most commonmessage is "OK, you got me with that submission. Now let me go"

Many grapplers don't realize that tapping out can also be used to senda different message, namely: "I don't know what's going on here - I might be in danger of getting injured, so let's stop for a second"

I'll start off with a story from shortly after I started studying Pai Lum. I was in the beginners class and we were working side head locks. A young kid had me in a fantastic hold and as it was beginner's class I tapped rather than tried breaking loose. Aperently the kid had no idea what a tap was and didn't let go till I was about to pass out... Mainly because I about broke his foot with a stomp.

So, should a student be allowed to practice something like a side head lock live without first demonstrating that he/she can identify a tap or should they be allowed to "learn as they go"?

[1bad65]

The first thing we tell new guys is to tap if there is any doubt.

As to letting them work subs on you, either have an experienced person watching or make sure the new guy knows what a tap means. FYI, in our gym we teach to either tap, snap your fingers, or say 'tap', as there are times you cannot tap out with your hands (like a double armbar).

[MasterKiller]

I don't see two definitions, there. The result is the same, either way. You stop.

[MasterKiller]

As to letting them work subs on you, either have an experienced person watching or make sure the new guy knows what a tap means. FYI, in our gym we teach to either tap, snap your fingers, or say 'tap', as there are times you cannot tap out with your hands (like a double armbar).


We also use foot taps (Slapping your foot against the mat several times) because sometimes your arm is locked and your mouth covered at the same time.

[sanjuro_ronin]

When all else fails never underestimate the effectivness of good ol wind breakage or crapping your pants.

[Becca]

I don't see two definitions, there. The result is the same, either way. You stop.
Sure there is. One tap means "I'm stuck good, please don't destroy my lim/joint." the other is WTF?!?!? I don't know what you/I am doing; let me go please." The reult is the same, but you might not expect the second type because it may or may not come at a logical place or time. If you aren't aware of it, they could pull a Ronin and cr@p thier pants....

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sure there is. One tap means "I'm stuck good, please don't destroy my lim/joint." the other is WTF?!?!? I don't know what you/I am doing; let me go please." The reult is the same, but you might not expect the second type because it may or may not come at a logical place or time. If you aren't aware of it, they could pull a Ronin and cr@p thier pants....

Ninja warfare 101 !

[MasterKiller]

Sure there is. One tap means "I'm stuck good, please don't destroy my lim/joint." the other is WTF?!?!? I don't know what you/I am doing; let me go please." The reult is the same, but you might not expect the second type because it may or may not come at a logical place or time. If you aren't aware of it, they could pull a Ronin and cr@p thier pants....

I've never rolled with anyone who knew what they were doing who tapped just because they got stuck. A large part of training, afterall, is teaching yourself to get unstuck.

Now, after you get tapped, people frequently ask what they got caught with, etc... But it's pretty pointless, counter-productive even, to ask to stop in the middle because something was unfamiliar.

[SimonM]

Most embarassing situation is when you DON'T tap and the other guy thinks you did.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Another definition of that tap is when a fine looking woman passes by and some says, ' I'd tap that".
:D

[MasterKiller]

Another definition of that tap is when a fine looking woman passes by and some says, ' I'd tap that".
:D

I tried to run a school ad in the local college paper that had a hot chick in fight gear with the caption "Want to tap her?"

They wouldn't accept my ad.:mad:

[Becca]

I've never rolled with anyone who knew what they were doing who tapped just because they got stuck. A large part of training, afterall, is teaching yourself to get unstuck.

Now, after you get tapped, people frequently ask what they got caught with, etc... But it's pretty pointless, counter-productive even, to ask to stop in the middle because something was unfamiliar.When I train with people below my experience, and they are trying to work on one spacific skill such as escaping a standing side head lock, and they can't figure it out or are starting to panic, they should be able to tap. If the less experience person is trying to learn how to apply a standing side head lock fast enough thier "target" can't escape before it's sunk, the "target" should be able to tap as the new person may not have applied the side head lock safely or not realize that they did, indead, accomplish thier goal.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I tried to run a school ad in the local college paper that had a hot chick in fight gear with the caption "Want to tap her?"

They wouldn't accept my ad.:mad:

Well, you could have captioned it: " wanna get caught in her triangle"?

[MasterKiller]

When I train with people below my experience, and they are trying to work on one spacific skill such as escaping a standing side head lock, and they can't figure it out or are starting to panic, they should be able to tap. If the less experience person is trying to learn how to apply a standing side head lock fast enough thier "target" can't escape before it's sunk, the "target" should be able to tap as the new person may not have applied the side head lock safely or not realize that they did, indead, accomplish thier goal.

You can tap anytime you want.

Doesn't mean you should tap everytime you get stuck.

At any rate, I still don't see the difference between the definitions. Sounds like an excuse just to write an article.

[SimonM]

MK another possible caption: Experience Her Rear Naked Choke

[GreenCloudCLF]

I'll start off with a story from shortly after I started studying Pai Lum. I was in the beginners class and we were working side head locks. A young kid had me in a fantastic hold and as it was beginner's class I tapped rather than tried breaking loose. Aperently the kid had no idea what a tap was and didn't let go till I was about to pass out... Mainly because I about broke his foot with a stomp.

So, should a student be allowed to practice something like a side head lock live without first demonstrating that he/she can identify a tap or should they be allowed to "learn as they go"?

A student should not allowed to make ANY contact with another student until they know what a tap is, what forms are acceted (we use the tap, the foot stomp as MK said, or the verbal call of BLUE The reason we use Blue is because "tap" sounds too close to "c-rap" and that call is made often while rolling. We don't want anyone getting out before they are ready.

Then, if someone doesn't respect the tap, they should be issued a code red!

[monji112000]

Ok, this forum is so dead even the dumn political threads are dying off.... let's argue about something already!

Here's a snipet from Saturday's grapplearts newsletter; discuss:




I'll start off with a story from shortly after I started studying Pai Lum. I was in the beginners class and we were working side head locks. A young kid had me in a fantastic hold and as it was beginner's class I tapped rather than tried breaking loose. Aperently the kid had no idea what a tap was and didn't let go till I was about to pass out... Mainly because I about broke his foot with a stomp.

So, should a student be allowed to practice something like a side head lock live without first demonstrating that he/she can identify a tap or should they be allowed to "learn as they go"?

brings to mind a similar topic... when to tap?
I can remember I first started tapping too early or at the wrong time...
I always try to extend my tolerance. On the other hand I have trained with and talked to people who say to tap if you know he has the sub and don't wait. If its a tight armbar or a strong kimura... don't wait just tap. On the flip side if you have him and he isn't taping rather than continue to force pain (or something worse), transition to another submission.
I see the logic in both ideas..

[GreenCloudCLF]

brings to mind a similar topic... when to tap?
I can remember I first started tapping too early or at the wrong time...
I always try to extend my tolerance. On the other hand I have trained with and talked to people who say to tap if you know he has the sub and don't wait. If its a tight armbar or a strong kimura... don't wait just tap. On the flip side if you have him and he isn't taping rather than continue to force pain (or something worse), transition to another submission.
I see the logic in both ideas..

I wouldn't transition to another submission if my opponent wasn't tapping. I would adjust my current submission on the theory I might be off, or I would apply more pressure. If you arm breaks because you don't tap, that is not my fault.

[MasterKiller]

I wouldn't transition to another submission if my opponent wasn't tapping. I would adjust my current submission on the theory I might be off, or I would apply more pressure. If you arm breaks because you don't tap, that is not my fault.

Some guys hold out just because they know people will transition to something else if they don't get the tap right away. If you have the lock, hold onto it. Just don't be a d1ck about it.