Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[1bad65]

I persomally think Biden is such a fool, Mrs Palin will win. It will be even more funny if she does knowing the moderator was on Biden's side!

When does Sean Hannity get to moderate a debate? ;)

MK, wanna sig bet? If your guy is telling the truth, I'm screwed. ;)

[BoulderDawg]

But if your guy is honest, you can't lose! ;)

Wanna make a sig bet?

Take it man! You would have 8 years before you had to leave.

You know what will happen. Obama could cut taxes until he is blue in the face but it would never meet his criteria. This guy would never admit that Obama cut taxes.

Anyway there is another bet out there that this guy is afraid to take. And that one would be decided next month!:eek:

[1bad65]

The truth is that tomorrow night Biden cannot win.

Once again you make excuses before the event even happens.

[1bad65]

Take it man! You would have 8 years before you had to leave.

You know what will happen. Obama could cut taxes until he is blue in the face but it would never meet his criteria. This guy would never admit that Obama cut taxes.

Anyway there is another bet out there that this guy is afraid to take. And that one would be decided next month!:eek:

Your illiterate. Notice I said if he cuts the income taxes, I lose. He could do that quickly. But if he raises them, I win. It won't take 8 years. He will raise them within the first year is my prediction.

If it's an income tax cut I lose. If it doesn't happen or they get raised I win. PERIOD. That's the criteria. Now learn to read and comprehend.


Oh, I'll bet you once you show me it's a fair game. Once you show where McCain got money from a group with indicted and convicted people for voting fraud, I'll bet. You know this, I'm just guessing you haven't found any yet. ;)

[BoulderDawg]

When does Sean Hannity get to moderate a debate? ;)


I guess when they could find candidates that would agree to show up!

Same on the other side. If I was McCain I would not go to a debate by Keith Oberman.

Tim Russert you are being missed!

[BoulderDawg]

Oh, I'll bet you once you show me it's a fair game. Once you show where McCain got money from a group with indicted and convicted people for voting fraud, I'll bet. You know this, I'm just guessing you haven't found any yet. ;)


Sour grapes.....And the election hasn't even been held yet.

In these days and times I want to meet the people powerful enough to throw a national election. I might be good to know who these people are.:D

[MasterKiller]

MK, wanna sig bet? If your guy is telling the truth, I'm screwed. ;) So, if he doesn't pass the tax cuts by 2012, I change my sig? OK. I'm in.

[SimonM]

Good thing that the world will end in an astronomical cataclysm in 2012. :D
Disclaimer: Simon McNeil does not believe in that stupid apocalyptic bullcrap. But it's more entertaining than this trainwreck of a thread.

[1bad65]

Sour grapes.....And the election hasn't even been held yet.

Like you blaming racism for an Obama defeat?

[1bad65]

So, if he doesn't pass the tax cuts by 2012, I change my sig? OK. I'm in.

That's part of it. But if he raises income taxes on people making under $250k/yr, you lose as well. My guess is that will happen fairly quickly.

[1bad65]

In these days and times I want to meet the people powerful enough to throw a national election. I might be good to know who these people are.:D

I never said 'throw'. I said Obama has taken money from conviced 'cheaters'. A big difference.

Speaking of people being missed, you must miss Fox. The two of you not being able to read and comprehend simple sentences is amazing.

[Reality_Check]

Once again you make excuses before the event even happens.

Kind of like this?

It looks like Mrs Palin may be getting jobbed tomorrow night.

The moderator of the debate, Gwen Ifill, will be releasing a book on Inauguration Day titled "The Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama" singing Obama's praises. She has praised Obama for 'forging a new path'.

Who the hell thinks thats a neutral moderator?

Or this?

Why bet on a game where one side is openly cheating before the game even starts?

:D

[1bad65]

So what part of what I said was not true? :)

FYI, I still think she will do fine and that McCain will win. I just don't bet at crooked tables.

[BoulderDawg]

So what part of what I said was not true? :)

FYI, I still think she will do fine and that McCain will win. I just don't bet at crooked tables.

You simply can't make the above statement then on the other hand say "I didn't say the election was "Fixed".............

What am I saying.......You're a neocon...of course you can say stuff like that!!!:D

[1bad65]

Look idiot, there is a difference between cheating and fixing. I'll type slow.

Say there is a boxing match and one fighter pulls padding out of his gloves. That is cheating.

Say there is a boxing match and one camp pays off the judges and the ref. That is a fix.

Get it? :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

What am I saying.......You're a neocon...of course you can say stuff like that!!!:D

And your a liberal so you can say that McCain and his family are racists and if Obama loses it's because of racism.

[1bad65]

I ask again:

What part of what I said is not true?

Do you want to make the sig bet I offered MK?

[Hebrew Hammer]

When does Sean Hannity get to moderate a debate? ;)

Probably never...because you are the only person who I've seen use the name Sean Hannity and the word moderate in the same sentence. I think this debate will be the most over watched, over analyzed, and unimportant debate of the election season. McCain/Palin and the Republicans are going to lose in a landslide, about the size of the one Jimmy Carter lost to Reagan. McCain winning the election would be very bad news for our country. Not that I'm all excited about Obama, he'll garner my vote, but I will remain skeptical unless he and the new congress can start producing results on our nations problems. Wishful freaking thinking.

[GLW]

As to the allegation of "cheating" from 1bad...

There is cheating and then there is cheating :

"NEW YORK - October 1 - Today the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law released one of the first systematic examinations of voter purging, a practice-often controversial-of removing voters from registration lists in order to update state registration rolls-click here for report. After a detailed study of the purge practices of 12 states, Voter Purges reveals that election officials across the country are routinely striking millions of voters from the rolls through a process that is shrouded in secrecy, prone to error, and vulnerable to manipulation. Upon the release of Voter Purges, today the Brennan Center and the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law began filing public records requests with election officials in 12 states in order to expose the purges that happened this year. "

For a simple explanation of what this means :

The secrecy is typically being handled by GOP leaning operatives...ala the methods employed in Florida going back to 1999-2000.

In that instance, a company that was NOT well versed in databases OR in voter roles AND that charged more money but was a GOP contributor was chosen to purge Florida's voting roles.

Examinations of the purges after the fact revealed things like:

if you were black, you were more likely to be removed. They would do things like : Felon name : Joe Washington, age 35, Voter: Joseph Washington, age 45 - NOTHING else came close to matching...and they WERE different people...but Joseph Washington was removed from the voter registrations...and NOT notified until he went to vote.

When such a person went to vote, they were given a provisional ballot... Provisional ballots are virtually NEVER counted...and the one such a person is given is not to be counted until the status of their right to vote is resolved. However, the resolution requires taking the case to a judge and proving that you were removed without cause.

There were over 1000 such cases in Florida in 2000. As of 2002 when I last looked, NONE of the people removed from the roles had gotten their vote back.

Then there are things like the distinction between a federal crime and a state one. Here, you can agree or disagree with the way the law works, but the law is the law.

There is a reciprocity between states. Meaning that one state recognizes things like eligibilty to vote from another one as long as you are registered.

What does this mean?

Well, there are about 12 states that permanently remove a person's right to vote if they are convicted of a felony. Florida is one of them.

The example here is from Texas. Texas provides for means to not have your right to vote lost for certain crimes and serving the sentence. So, if you are arrested in Texas, serve it in Texas, and Texas says you get your vote back, and THEN move to Florida, you retain your right to vote UNLESS you commit a crime and lose it in Florida.

In 2000, there were several hundred such cases AND FLorida admitted wrongfully denying those people their right to vote -AFTER the election was already over.

This is the type of thing the NYU survey was looking at and they found that it has gotten worse since 2000 NOT better.

Add to that the call for caging votes, challenging a voter's right based upon race or ethnicity - all part of the plan for the GOP...and documented IF you care to look for it...

Keep in mind that the count in Florida in 2000 was decided by less than 600 votes.

And you end up with "Yes Virginia, there are people who are cheating...but they are more often GOP folks in regards to voting denial"

Take a look at the influence of the GOP ad Diebold with Ohio in 2004...and then the problems with the machines that have been surfacing ever since...and the fact that early on, a team of electronics and software experts noted that secure voting machines were NOT a feasible thing...and WOULD require things like paper trails and audit methods (still missing in Diebold machines)

Also, the bit about ACORN and the bailout is NOT true. Any provision for such groups was removed from all drafts of the legislation before it even made committee vote.

But, on the record, I feel that a bailout of the top - the financial institutions - is a bad idea - sticking us taxpayers with a bill and imposing no penalties for bad management.

[BoulderDawg]

And the thing about any election process is that if you have human beings you are going to have stuff like the above happen. That's just human nature and will continue until somehow man evolve past it...don't look for that to happen soon.

The election in Florida in 2000...........No one really knows who won that election....No one can go into the hearts and minds of the people voting to know who they actually supported. When I seen how close the election was I knew immediately that the Republicans would win. Why? They controlled the process. Had the Democrats been in control Gore would have won.

Now I understand how some Democrats got a little heated about what happened down there. What I can't understand is the reaction by Republicans. In the years that followed one would think they had lost Florida. It's been lawsuit after lawsuit instigated by the Republicans challenging voter roles in a lot of state. As I've already mentioned the behavior of these people in Ohio is getting disgraceful. However the conservatives know exactly what they are doing. They know that if they get the word out that when you go to vote you WILL be watched and conforted at the polls then they scare off many totally legit minority voters...especially older voters who remember Jim Crow and what it was like...It's sad to see tactics such as this.

[BoulderDawg]

NEW YORK (AP) -- A police lieutenant committed suicide Thursday, days after he ordered another officer to fire a stun gun at a naked, distraught man who then fell to his death, police said.

The body of Lt. Michael Pigott, a 21-year police veteran, was found in a police locker room at a former airfield in Brooklyn, New York, dead apparently of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, said Paul Browne, deputy commissioner for public information. He used a weapon that was not his, police said.

Pigott had been stripped of his gun and badge and reassigned to desk duty after the September 24 case in which police, summoned by the mother of an emotionally disturbed man, fired a Taser stun gun as he perched on a ledge.

*************

I saw this original story and was outraged. The tragic part of this is that it cost the lives of two men. The punishment for the cold blooded murder of another human being was "Desk Duty"......Had they done the correct thing and threw this guy in jail he would still be alive.

Now, I wonder about the cop that actually pulled the trigger...He must be enjoying his desk duty. Unlike the other guy he was probably laughing when the guy hit the ground.

[Mr Punch]

It's no good guys. Watch 1bad not respond to any of these points except to put an attack in besmirching Obama or 'the liberals'.

Meanwhile, I'd like to thank the McCain/Palin ticket on behalf of the rest of the world for continuing to bring us the quality comedy that the Bush 'administration' team has provided us us with for the last eight years:

You couldn't make it up. (http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=wqBLUIJ-zYc)

Well, satire fans: (http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=KyoafptEm5c) in answer to which stinging attack on her state did Palin end up responding, "It's not like Alaska is another planet... Alaska is like a microcosm of America."?

I'll leave the next but one potential President of the US out of this for now... spoilt for choice: it's like shooting fish in a barrel... or well, just about anything from a helicopter.

...
But unfortunately, the same can be said about the next potential President...

Funny! (http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y43yKperrA&feature=related)

Laughing so hard... (http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=IbhTtSlzY2s)

I could cry... (http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=zwZ--jw_YIE)
No, but seriously... (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2008/sep/28/uselections2008.sarahpalin)

And yeah, I know the last two are nothing to do with McCain, and of course, I'm not allowed to bring them up because it would be blaming Obama's possible loss on racism rather than issues, or talking down to everyday voters... but wait a minute...! Oh, snap! That's right - this (and the reasons directly above among others) is why I don't believe in democracy!

Like I said, great comedy, can't wait for the next installments.

[Mr Punch]

NEW YORK (AP) -- A police lieutenant committed suicide Thursday, days after he ordered another officer to fire a stun gun at a naked, distraught man who then fell to his death, police said...Not quite sure what relevance this has to this here political thread, other than kinda proving my point that not everyone's vote should have equal weight in an election... :rolleyes: ;) :D

[BoulderDawg]

In a society where police do not hesitate to kill a man in cold blood one has to wonder what role government plays.

One has to wonder how in a civilized country a man can be murdered and the worse punishment that was dealt out was "Desk Duty" and just how a publically elected government would allow that.

[BoulderDawg]

You can never get into somebody's head and know for sure but I will estimated that the pure and simple fact that Obama is black will cost him at least 5% of the vote right off the top.

The best part about all of this is that it's not going to matter. Even if you take the 5% off Obama will still win.

To ignore race (Which is the game that conservatives play these days) is the same as ignoring culture.

[1bad65]

In a society where police do not hesitate to kill a man in cold blood one has to wonder what role government plays.

So let's just make government bigger. :eek: That'll fix it. :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

It's no good guys. Watch 1bad not respond to any of these points except to put an attack in besmirching Obama or 'the liberals'.

Are you even paying attention? I answer everything put to me. Unlike some *cough BD cough* who answer nothing. Get your facts straight.

[SimonM]

Yes, yes it will.

In fact let's nationalize everything.

Nationalized oil, nationalized agriculture, nationalize the entire supply chain.

Full-blown communism, here we go!

Down with the bourgeoisie!

Hey wait... didn't you say you were rich.

Well...

You know what we communists like to do with rich people. :D

This thread blows chunks.

[1bad65]

The secrecy is typically being handled by GOP leaning operatives...ala the methods employed in Florida going back to 1999-2000.

In that instance, a company that was NOT well versed in databases OR in voter roles AND that charged more money but was a GOP contributor was chosen to purge Florida's voting roles.

Name that company please. What GOP politicians did they contribute to?

Notice I was able to show EXACTLY how much Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac gave to Obama. Do the same.

if you were black, you were more likely to be removed.

I'll be willing to bet that in terms of accidental removals, seniors were the least likely to be removed. Do you have the numbers on this study you reference?

You know why? Because the ones purged are usually the ones who have not voted for years. Seniors are the most likely bloc to vote. Blacks are one of the blocs least likely to vote. A simple explanation.

There were over 1000 such cases in Florida in 2000. As of 2002 when I last looked, NONE of the people removed from the roles had gotten their vote back.

Name ONE instance where a person should have been.

Also, the bit about ACORN and the bailout is NOT true. Any provision for such groups was removed from all drafts of the legislation before it even made committee vote.

So you're admitting it was in there at some point, right? Or was Lindsey Graham lying?

[1bad65]

As to Florida in 2000:

Regarding the ballot the Dems were crying about, saying their voters were too stupid to figure out. Remember, it was designed and approved by a Democrat.

[1bad65]

You know what we communists like to do with rich people. :D

Yeah, it's real funny. Idiot.

Read 'The Killing Fields' and then laugh. It's not just the rich. The educated and those who disagree get 're-educated' as well.

[SimonM]

Answer my question: don't you want to live in the people's utopia?

[Reality_Check]

Well, this is an interesting read.

"All of which tells you about what you'd expect from a raise-the-base choice like Palin: She's a puffed-up dimwit with primitive religious beliefs who had to be educated as to the fact that the Constitution did not exactly envision government executives firing librarians."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/23318320/mad_dog_palin

Enjoy. :D

[David Jamieson]

Well, this is an interesting read.

"All of which tells you about what you'd expect from a raise-the-base choice like Palin: She's a puffed-up dimwit with primitive religious beliefs who had to be educated as to the fact that the Constitution did not exactly envision government executives firing librarians."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/23318320/mad_dog_palin

Enjoy. :D

wow... lol.

[banditshaw]

Times like this I wish Hunter S. Thompson were alive to write about some of this. That RS piece had a hint of Hunters spirit.

Palin is a nutjob.....plain and simple.

[GLW]

On the voter purges...I'll make it easy for you - New York Times link :

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0DEEDC103BF933A25754C0A9629C8B 63

There are other less mainstream sources that outline how far such purges have gone...but they are even more alarming than the NYT article..and it was surpressed for a good while - until after the elections....and there WAS a story on that one too. Look that one up for yourself. The information is out there.

The voting machine companies ES&S and Diebold....I forgot the ES&S name but I mentioned Diebold by name in my earlier post. Reading comprehension problem?

a bit of background on them :

"Whose Voting Machines
by Doug Pibel


Winter 2004: Whose Water?
Whose Voting Machines
by Doug Pibel
Print this articleEmail this article to a friend
AddThis Social Bookmark Button


Two of the corporations that provide nearly all of the voting machines in the United States—ES&S and Diebold—are controlled by Republicans with strong ties to the Bush administration. One company is also linked to a far-right fundamentalist Christian movement.

In a recent mailing to Republican donors, Walden O'Dell, CEO of Diebold Inc., one of three companies certified to sell electronic voting equipment to the state of Ohio, stated his commitment “to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year.”

All of the $195,000 Diebold has given in political contributions since 2000 went to the Republican Party or Republican candidates, as has all of the over $240,000 that the company's directors and chief officers have donated, according to OpenSecrets.org.

Diebold and ES&S are heavily interconnected. Brothers Todd and Bob Urosevich founded American Information Services (AIS), which became ES&S when AIS merged with Business Records Corporation (BRC). Todd works at ES&S as vice president, while Bob is now president of Diebold. ES&S claims that it counted 56 percent of U.S. votes in the last four presidential elections.

AIS was initially funded by Howard Ahmanson. Ahmanson is a member of the Council for National Policy, a “steering group” linked to the Bush administration, and has holdings in ES&S. Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, former CEO of AIS, had significant AIS holdings when the company counted the votes for his surprise election victory in 1996. Hagel has been scrutinized by the Senate Ethics Committee over his investments in the McCarthy Group. ES&S, which counted the votes when Hagel was re-elected in 2002, is a subsidiary of the McCarthy Group, according to The Hill.

BRC was started with money from Texas billionaire Nelson Bunker Hunt. Both Ahmanson and Hunt are large contributors to the Chalcedon Foundation, a think tank for the Christian Reconstruction movement, which advocates literal application of Old-Testament law.

The company hired by the Republican governor of Maryland to analyze Diebold's computer voting systems, defense contractor SAIC, also has close Republican ties. SAIC reported that security flaws in Diebold's systems could be fixed.

SAIC board members Admiral Bill Owens (former military aide to **** Cheney), and ex-CIA chief Robert Gates, who was implicated in the Iran-Contra scandal of the 1980s, also serve on the board of VoteHere, a growing elections software company. SAIC itself is producing electronic voting systems in partnership with Diversified Dynamics.

SAIC has been investigated for fraud and security lapses in its electronic systems, but has received contracts for work in Iraq.
Electronic security and verifiability have become issues in the shift to computerized voting mandated by the Help America Vote Act. Voting expert Rebecca Mercuri, a Bryn Mawr College professor of computer science, argues that computer voting technology is vulnerable to error and manipulation and should not be used unless it includes paper receipts. (See YES!, Spring 2003 and Fall 2003.)"

[GLW]

“You know why? Because the ones purged are usually the ones who have not voted for years. Seniors are the most likely bloc to vote. Blacks are one of the blocs least likely to vote. A simple explanation.”

You are ignoring the fact that this was NOT a purge of voters who had not voted. It was a purge of people who were supposed to be illegally registered. That was THEIR justification for it. They actually had one of the algorithms used in the purge that identified race – it was hidden but the code got out a couple of years ago. If you were a minority that typically did NOT vote GOP, you were subjected to a different matching criteria. In Florida, most latinos registered are GOP – big Cuban influence.

The evidence was there…and the NYT reporting only hit on a little of it. The BBC and others did a more thorough job and it was even more damaging.

“Name ONE instance where a person should have been.”

It continues…

Froma more liberal view – the Daily Kos:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/8/0144/73374/148/589714


Exactly WHY Should I do YOUR homework. There are books by people that do just that. One that does document it is a book by Greg Palast. His sources are cited and you may disagree with the conclusions but his citations are dead on. “The Best Democracy Money Can Buy”.

I read it a couple of years ago… Some of his stuff is BS…and other stuff like his attempt to interview the Florida office for elections…and their retreat…all filmed.

ACORN was NOT mentioned by name in the early draft of the bill. There was an option for organizations like ACORN…and that was thrown out VERY early…right after the original lack of oversight that Paulson asked for. So… Paulson and his approach were put out there by the Bush Admin…and that was the starting point – 2 ½ pages.

Graham is stretching the truth…wonder why a Republican would ever want to do that. He would also not know much since he is NOT on the committee that was drafting the bill for this…

[David Jamieson]

Digital voting is rigged period.

x marks the spot is a proper ballot counted by many grannies across all the community centers and church halls in America.

Digital voting is fraud, that's all there is to it.

People don't seem to understand that a person can get a computer to do whatever they want it to and all they need is a little foreknowledge.

This is why casinos steal and rip off people to the tune of billions annually . because people are ignorant of how things work and how computers don't do anything without someone telling them exactly what to do.

simply refuse to use the machines and ask for a paper ballot.

[GLW]

To make it even worse, these machines do not even give an imitation of an audit trail.

Memory fails, but I believe itwas the Diebold version, if you did an audit to check a recount, it simply spat out what the local database on the machine had stored again.

Sorry, but that is NOT an audit.

An audit would be:

Voter uses machine, gets a paper receipt. The paper receipt is put into a vote box when the voter exits the booth.

If a recount is needed or an audit, the machine's memory is dumped as it is now...and then the receipt box is counted...and the d@mn well better agree...or the entire voting machine and all of them in use are in question.

Problem is that when just such a set of tests were done independently, the machines fail an inordinate number of times.

Fine if you are the one receiving the benefit..but you won't always be the one it works in favor of....UNLESS you are paying the piper....hmmmm....

[BoulderDawg]

Digital voting/Paper ballots/Whatever...If someone wants to find a way to cheat the system they will. However paper is probaly the safest. Give me a peice of paper with names on it and a magic marker to circle the candidate I want or vote for. Then I'll put it in a locked box which can only be opened by 2 or more people.

Voter fraud? It happens! But not to the extreme the conservatives would somehow lead you to believe. My guess is it happens on both side and that cancels all of it out.

[CLFLPstudent]

For everyones viewing pleasure I would highly suggest watching Hacking Democracy (http://www.hackingdemocracy.com/)

Very frightening look into Diebold's machines and their "hack-proofness"

-David

[Mr Punch]

Name ONE instance where a person should have been.

If you were black, you were more likely to be removed. They would do things like : Felon name : Joe Washington, age 35, Voter: Joseph Washington, age 45 - NOTHING else came close to matching...and they WERE different people...but Joseph Washington was removed from the voter registrations...and NOT notified until he went to vote.

Are you even paying attention?

:confused:
.
.
.
:p

[Mr Punch]

More fun with Cousin Sarah... (http://interviewpalin.com/n3)

:D

[Mr Punch]

I hope the Democrats grow some, ignore all this PC reverse spin crap about misogyny and Biden really, really savages her.

:)

[1bad65]

This is why casinos steal and rip off people to the tune of billions annually .

Another conspiracy theory. The state inspectors have full access to every machine, and they can find any cheating out quite easily. That's a 'one strike and your out' crime as well. If you get caught you do time and the casino is shut down. PERIOD.

Can you show me one casino that ever got caught doing this?

[1bad65]

Good job answering the questions. Amazing that is done around here.

I'll agree right now I am against computerized voting. I like the old way, as you have a 'hard copy' of the actual ballot. I also do fear that cheating is easier than with a paper ballot system. But we all must agree that no matter what system is used, there will always be cheating.

I notice McCain was not mentioned as getting contributions from convicted and/or indicted cheaters though.....

[sanjuro_ronin]

In regards to the debate:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/USElection/2008/10/03/6961671-ap.html

Some examples of facts cast adrift in the debate:

PALIN: Said of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama: "94 times he voted to increase taxes or not support a tax reduction."

THE FACTS: The dubious count includes repetitive votes as well as votes to cut taxes for the middle class while raising them on the rich. An analysis by factcheck.org found that 23 of the votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all, seven were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, 11 would have increased taxes on only those making more than $1 million a year.

BIDEN: Complained about "economic policies of the last eight years" that led to "excessive deregulation."

THE FACTS: Biden voted for 1999 deregulation that liberal groups are blaming for part of the financial crisis today. The law allowed Wall Street investment banks to create the kind of mortgage-related securities at the core of the problem now. The law was widely backed by Republicans as well as by Democratic President Clinton, who argues it has stopped the crisis today from being worse.

PALIN: Criticized Obama's "plan to mandate health care coverage and have universal government run program" for health care, and added: "I don't think it's going to be real pleasing for Americans to consider health care being taken over by the Feds."

THE FACTS: Wrong on several counts. Obama's plan does not provide for universal coverage, only mandates insurance for children and doesn't turn the system over to the government. Most people would still get private insurance through their work. Obama proposes that the government subsidize the cost of health coverage for millions who have trouble affording it and he'd set up an exchange to negotiate prices and benefits with private insurers -- with one option being a government-run plan.

BIDEN: Warned that Republican presidential candidate John McCain's $5,000 tax credit to help families buy health coverage "will go straight to the insurance company."

THE FACTS: Of course it would, because it's meant to pay for insurance. That's like saying money for a car loan will go straight to the car dealer.

PALIN: "Two years ago, remember, it was John McCain who pushed so hard with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reform measures. He sounded that warning bell."

THE FACTS: Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska led an effort in 2005 to tighten regulation on the mortgage underwriters -- McCain joined as a co-sponsor a year later. The legislation was never taken up by the full Senate, then under Republican control. BIDEN: Said McCain supports tax breaks for oil companies, and "wants to give them another $4 billion tax cut."

THE FACTS: Biden is repeating a favorite saw of the Obama campaign, and it's misleading. McCain supports a cut in income taxes for all corporations, and doesn't single out any one industry for that benefit.

PALIN: Said the United States has reduced its troop level in Iraq to a number below where it was when the troop increase began in early 2007.

THE FACTS: Not correct. The Pentagon says there are currently 152,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, about 17,000 more than there were before the 2007 military buildup began.

BIDEN: "As a matter of fact, John recently wrote an article in a major magazine saying that he wants to do for the health care industry -- deregulate it and let the free market move -- like he did for the banking industry."

THE FACTS: Biden and Obama have been perpetuating this distortion of what McCain wrote in an article for the American Academy of Actuaries. McCain, laying out his health plan, only referred to deregulation when saying people should be allowed to buy health insurance across state lines. In that context, he wrote: "Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation."

PALIN: Said Alaska is "building a nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline, which is North America's largest and most expensive infrastructure project ever to flow those sources of energy into hungry markets."

THE FACTS: Not quite. Construction is at least six years away. So far the state has only awarded a license to Trans Canada Corp., that comes with $500 million in seed money in exchange for commitments toward a lengthy and costly process to getting a federal certificate. At an August news conference after the state Legislature approved the license, Palin said, "It's not a done deal."

PALIN: "Barack Obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last year for those families making only $42,000 a year."

BIDEN: "The charge is absolutely not true. Barack Obama did not vote to raise taxes. The vote she's referring to, John McCain voted the exact same way."

THE FACTS: The vote was on a nonbinding budget resolution that assumed that President Bush's tax cuts would expire, as scheduled, in 2011. If that actually happened, it could mean higher taxes for people making as little as about $42,000. But Obama is proposing tax increases only on the wealthy, and would cut taxes for most others. In the March 14 budget resolution supported by Obama and Biden, McCain actually did not vote.

PALIN: Said a McCain-Palin administration "will support Israel," including "building our embassy ... in Jerusalem."

THE FACTS: Moving the U.S. Embassy from its present location in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem is a perennial promise of presidential candidates courting the Jewish-American vote. In fact, moving the embassy is actually required by U.S. law. But successive administrations of both parties, including George W. Bush's, have made the same pledge only to find that the realities of Middle East peacemaking have forced them to invoke a waiver to delay it. Jerusalem is claimed as a capital by both Israel and the Palestinians and Israel's occupation of east Jerusalem is not internationally recognized. The city's status is one of the key issues of disagreement in peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.

* * *

Associated Press writers Tom Raum, Steve Quinn, Jim Kuhnhenn, Lolita Baldor and Matthew Lee contributed to this report.

[bakxierboxer]

In regards to the debate:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/USElection/2008/10/03/6961671-ap.html
......
{SNIP!!!}
Associated Press writers Tom Raum, Steve Quinn, Jim Kuhnhenn, Lolita Baldor and Matthew Lee contributed to this report.

Will wonders never cease?!
That is, without any doubt at all, the most balanced reportage I've ever seen from AP.

The end of the world must be nigh!

[SimonM]

Answer the question 1bad65

[sanjuro_ronin]

Will wonders never cease?!
That is, without any doubt at all, the most balanced reportage I've ever seen from AP.

The end of the world must be nigh!

*looks out window and sees the horsemen*
Great....

[1bad65]

Answer the question 1bad65

Which one?

I've answered so many one may have fallen through the cracks.

[1bad65]

Yup, Biden shined last night. He really showed he identifies with the middle class. He knows our hopes and dreams. He knows what we worry about, our struggles. He knows firsthand our pain. He knows what we face in our daily lives.

Joe Biden shops at Home Depot! :rolleyes:

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yup, Biden shined last night. He really showed he identifies with the middle class. He knows our hopes and dreams. He knows what we worry about, our struggles. He knows firsthand our pain. He knows what we face in our daily lives.

Joe Biden shops at Home Depot! :rolleyes:

I knew he looked familiar !!
Personally I was hoping he'd pop a gasket and tell Palin how he wanted to bounce his balls off her chin, but alas...

[MasterKiller]

At least he knows the correct name of the man in command in Afghanistan.

[1bad65]

At least he knows the correct name of the man in command in Afghanistan.

And he completely lied about what the man said.

Like Obama did about Henry Kissinger.

But don't worry, those pillars of honesty are gonna cut taxes on 95% of us. :rolleyes:

[BoulderDawg]

Sarah said one thing I agreed with last night:

"Obama's plan is waving the white flag of surrender."

Finally the GOP has come out and admitted the war is a total failure. Obama's plan is to withdraw from Iraq in 2 years or so. Sarah has admitted that as soon as we do that the government will totally collapse and the country will be overthrown....My guess is within six months.

It's nice to see frank honesty from her. To admit there has been no progress made in the 5 years or war and thousands upon thousands of people have died without cause is a step forward to ending this thing.

[1bad65]

You heard Biden last night. Not one dime of a tax increase on anyone making under $250k/yr, thats 95% of the population.

Wanna bet he raises income taxes on people making under $250k/yr?

[1bad65]

Finally the GOP has come out and admitted the war is a total failure.

Yeah, because we've had so many more 9/11's since the War on Terror started.

Cutting the military and intelligence budgets is what we need to ensure our safety now. :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

Sarah said one thing I agreed with last night:

"Obama's plan is waving the white flag of surrender."

Are you French? :D

[MasterKiller]

And he completely lied about what the man said.


“The word I don’t use for Afghanistan is ’surge,’ ” McKiernan said to the paper. Instead, he said, “sustained commitment” is needed.

[bakxierboxer]

*looks out window and sees the horsemen*
Great....

I think you prolly spellt dat wrong.... mebbe it s/b the "four *****s-men"?

[mawali]

1. It makes sense to me that leaving Iraq is a big step because that money not spent there wil lbe spent in good old USA. That means revenus will be for domestic US policies.

2. The Halliburton's etc will not have to be paid for services rendered. That is another source of domestic US funds.

Not following 1 and 2 will surely dig us deeper into the mess!

May the better candidate win! God Bless America!

[SimonM]

Answer question #1282 1bad65.

[Mas Judt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbW64215HA8&eurl=http://thezonation.blogspot.com/

[Mas Judt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU-EpU13K_o

[Mas Judt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj-EAMgZWtE&feature=related

[MasterKiller]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj-EAMgZWtE&feature=related


Republican Response. (http://24ahead.com/images/get-a-brain-morans.jpg)

[Mas Judt]

and one more... then back to work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkmS6JrWSPU&feature=related

Hard to imagine there was EVER a time when the Dems were on the receiving end of these lines, since EVERY TV show, movie, et al is loaded with Republican abuse these days...

Then there is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2naSzb1psU&eurl=http://www.thehud.com/blog.php

Am I the ONLY one who finds this creepy? First the 'annoiting' with paper maiche' Greek columns, now kids signing - the cult of personality lives on, while the left accuses the right of the very things they are. Weird, man.

[Mas Judt]

MK - that was a sign aimed at his neighbors, the Morans. Man, you scrap the barrul... :)

[BoulderDawg]

Are you French? :D


How many French have been killed in Iraq in the last five years?


The Neocon definition of "winning" cannot be attained. In fact Sarah gave one last night. Winning in Iraq is when the government is able to maintain stability on it's own. The problem with this Catch 22 is we will never know unless we turn it over to them. Now the neocons know full well that we could stay in Iraq for the next 100 years (As McCain has suggested) and as soon as we leave the govt will be out in 6 months.

What's funny is the people over there are starving, they don't have electricity or clean water like they did before the Americans invaded........Yep! I can really see stability in this govt!:D

However as I mentioned if you love the war so much sign up and go over there. I sure won't stop you. In fact I think we should take a poll of soldiers in Iraq: "Do you want to be here" Anyone that answers "No" would be replaced by a neocon, such as yourself, who enjoys war.

[Mr Punch]

Interesting Mas Judt, I always figured you for a man of some integrity yet those ads being full of **** doesn't seem to bother you. You really believe it don't you?

[Reality_Check]

Yeah, because we've had so many more 9/11's since the War on Terror started.

I think you're confusing correlation and causation again.

[GLW]

probably so...

An old shaman gave me a charm that he swore would prevent the owner from being attacked by an elephant, wildebeest, and buffalo..and it also prevented maulings from siberian white tigers.

Since I have had it, I have never been attacked by an elephant, wildebeest, or buffalo...and the siberian white tigers stay away from me too.

Wow...that shaman's charm really works.

[1bad65]

Answer my question: don't you want to live in the people's utopia?

There is no such place. Rephrase or explain the question better.

FYI, this appears to be a trolling question.

[1bad65]

No matter how you guys slice it, spin it, or deny it the fact remains:

Not one terrorist attack on US soil since Bush declared the War on Terror.
Under Clinton the attacks were repeated over and over.

[1bad65]

An old shaman gave me a charm that he swore would prevent the owner from being attacked by an elephant, wildebeest, and buffalo..and it also prevented maulings from siberian white tigers.

Since I have had it, I have never been attacked by an elephant, wildebeest, or buffalo...and the siberian white tigers stay away from me too.

Wow...that shaman's charm really works.

Were you attacked by any of those animals before you were given the charm?

Thus your analogy is flawed.

[GLW]

No it it not flawed. The future behavior of any group is NOT predicated on their past behavior.

Also, you are STILL equating 9/11 - War on Terror - and Iraq.

Had you been doing that with Afghanistan, I could see the connection...but Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11 and ALL of the reasons for us being there have been shown to be at best flawed...and at worst, LIES.

The world did NOT change Sept. 11, 2001. That simply was the day that the US was forced to realize that we are part of a world community that has an issue with safety, terrorism, and crazy zealots.

I could see you saying the world changed in 1972 with the Olympics at Munich...but it is pretty arrogant for Americans to only take notice of it when the attack happens on their own soil.

So...you are willing to throw out the Constitution, all the ideals Americans ahve been raised to believe in - for the mantra of "we are safer from those terrorists" ?

In so doing, you choose to live in fear and become less than what you were before 9/11/2001.

Sounds like YOU have let those bad old terrorist change you....and they have therefore won with you.

[Reality_Check]

No matter how you guys slice it, spin it, or deny it the fact remains:

Not one terrorist attack on US soil since Bush declared the War on Terror.
Under Clinton the attacks were repeated over and over.

How many terrorist attacks were there on US soil under Bill Clinton's administration? How many under George W. Bush's?

[BoulderDawg]

Not one terrorist attack on US soil since Bush declared the War on Terror. Under Clinton the attacks were repeated over and over.

Really? Name one under Clinton. I can't think of any.

Now before you jump head first into this remember what you wrote.

In any case: When did he declares the so-called "War on Terror"? Seems to me there were those anthax attacks...opps!:D

But yeah the war of terror....COOL!!!!!! It also works on Aliens from outer space.....I haven't seen any since Bush made announcement. Also, Sasquatch must have heard of that declaration too! Seems he is staying away!

[Reality_Check]

Not one terrorist attack on US soil since Bush declared the War on Terror.

Oh, and this is not true. George Bush declared the war on terror in 9/20/2001.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010920-8.html

There were several anthrax attacks on US citizens after that date.

http://www.gwu.edu/~cih/anthraxinfo/public/publicthreat_attacks.htm

Consequently, your statement is not true.

[1bad65]

No it it not flawed. The future behavior of any group is NOT predicated on their past behavior.

Do what?!?!? Are you nuts? That statement takes the cake for pure idiocracy. I may have to remove my Fox sig and replace it with that gem.

Gee, I hope the Nazi Party doesn't ever become a viable party over here. After all, past behavior doesn't count. :rolleyes:

Also, you are STILL equating 9/11 - War on Terror - and Iraq.

Because Saddam was flaunting his paying of suicide bomber's families had nothing to do with terror.

Again... ZERO attacks on us since the War on Terror began.

[MasterKiller]

Really? Name one under Clinton. I can't think of any.

1993 World Trade Center bombing...

Oklahoma City....

[Reality_Check]

Because Saddam was flaunting his paying of suicide bomber's families had nothing to do with terror.

How many of the 9/11 hijackers' families did Saddam pay? Which one's did he pay?

[1bad65]

How many terrorist attacks were there on US soil under Bill Clinton's administration? How many under George W. Bush's?

Really? Name one under Clinton. I can't think of any.


Are you people this dense? Forgetful? Really, what gives?

Feb 26, 1993: World Trade Center bombing.
Aug 7, 1998: US Embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya
Oct 12, 2000: USS Cole bombing

[BoulderDawg]

1993 World Trade Center bombing...

Oklahoma City....


My bad...I guess we should not vote for Obama becuase of this!:D

One question though: All of these terror attacks on US soil and off of US soil during the Clinton Admin yet if you go back and look this wasn't like a top priority for Bush in his run for the presidency. One would think that with all of those attacks Bush would have taken action the first day he was in office and 9/11 would have been prevented.

By the way what state was that Cole bombing in again? :-)

[1bad65]

I'm obviously only counting Islamic terrorism.

I cannot fault Clinton for Oklahoma City or the church bombings or school shootings.

Oh, the anthrax incidents are still being investigated. They may well have nothing to do with Islamic groups.

[MasterKiller]

Are you people this dense? Forgetful? Really, what gives?

Feb 26, 1993: World Trade Center bombing.
Aug 7, 1998: US Embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya
Oct 12, 2000: USS Cole bombing

If you are going to count Tanzania, Kenya, and the Cole, you have to count the attack on September 17, 2008 embassy of the United States, in San‘a’, Yemenn.

Islamic Jihad of Yemen, an al Qaeda affiliate, has claimed responsibility for the attack.

And CLinton was President for all of two months before the first World Trade Center bombing.

[1bad65]

Where's all the gloating at?

You guys couldn't wait to see Mrs Palin get demolished by Biden. He was gonna mop the floor with her. She was gonna be a stammering idiot, remember. Looks like she held her own. Hell, he was one who had to try and fake-cry during the debate!

[MasterKiller]

Where's all the gloating at?

You guys couldn't wait to see Mrs Palin get demolished by Biden. He was gonna mop the floor with her. She was gonna be a stammering idiot, remember. Looks like she held her own. Hell, he was one who had to try and fake-cry during the debate!

Too bad she couldn't answer the questions she was asked and just stuck to her scripted talking points.

[1bad65]

But what was Clinton's response?

He bombed an aspirin factory! The Al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory. Remember that? Why did he do that? Because he relied on faulty intelligence. Is it coming back now? That plant produced 50% of Sudan's medications for both people and animals.

How come he is not being raked over the coals by you guys? I mean innocent people died and suffered because Clinton relied on faulty intelligence.

[1bad65]

Too bad she couldn't answer the questions she was asked and just stuck to her scripted talking points.

As did Biden.

But again, she was supposed to be made a fool of. Who was wrong on that one? ;)

[Reality_Check]

Are you people this dense? Forgetful? Really, what gives?

Feb 26, 1993: World Trade Center bombing.
Aug 7, 1998: US Embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya
Oct 12, 2000: USS Cole bombing

No matter how you guys slice it, spin it, or deny it the fact remains:

Not one terrorist attack on US soil since Bush declared the War on Terror.
Under Clinton the attacks were repeated over and over.

Please note the highlighted portion above. If you were going to discuss attacks outside of the US homeland (so to speak) then you shouldn't have been so specific.

[MasterKiller]

Please note the highlighted portion above. If you were going to discuss attacks outside of the US homeland (so to speak) then you shouldn't have been so specific.

Embassies are considered US soil. The attack in Yemen last month was a direct assault on US soil.

[1bad65]

It was a 'draw'.

I do think Biden came off as a politician. The Home Depot pandering, the smile, the fake crying, the bad hair plugs. He looked like a politician.

Mrs Palin came off as a more 'normal' person. She was not polished, she was nervous. But she talked to people, not talked down to people.

[1bad65]

Embassies are considered US soil.

Thank you. As are a country's warships.

Though we disagree, you are a more rational, informed person than most of the others on here.

[MasterKiller]

It was a 'draw'.

I do think Biden came off as a politician. The Home Depot pandering, the smile, the fake crying, the bad hair plugs. He looked like a politician.

Mrs Palin came off as a more 'normal' person. She was not polished, she was nervous. But she talked to people, not talked down to people.

She did a lot better than she has so far in her interviews, but she was coached to stick to certain points. Even her lame jokes were scripted.

But a draw does you guys no good, anyway. You needed her to be a superstar.

[Reality_Check]

Embassies are considered US soil. The attack in Yemen last month was a direct assault on US soil.

I realize that, and that is what I was going for.

[MasterKiller]

Thank you. As are a country's warships.

Though we disagree, you are a more rational, informed person than most of the others on here.

Then you have to admit the Yemen attack was an Islamic terrorist attack on US soil.

[Reality_Check]

Then you have to admit the Yemen attack was an Islamic terrorist attack on US soil.

Which came after the declaration of the war on terror.

[1bad65]

Then you have to admit the Yemen attack was an Islamic terrorist attack on US soil.

Yup. So 2 attacks in 7 years.

Vs Clintons 3 attacks in 7 years.

So who has been more effective?

[1bad65]

From Fark:

If you had "California" as the next institution to request a bailout in the credit crunch pool, please step forward to collect your prize

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-calif3-2008oct03,0,5726760.story?track=rss


Where will it stop?

[MasterKiller]

Yup. So 2 attacks in 7 years.

Vs Clintons 3 attacks in 7 years.

So who has been more effective?

Clinton presided over the largest economic expansion in US history, Bush has virtually bankrupted America.

You tell me.

[SimonM]

There is no such place. Rephrase or explain the question better.

FYI, this appears to be a trolling question.

Don't try to avoid the question. It's very simple. Do you or do you not want to live in the worker's utopia. I refuse to allow any other discussion until you answer this vital question.

[BoulderDawg]

I'm obviously only counting Islamic terrorism.

I cannot fault Clinton for Oklahoma City or the church bombings or school shootings.

Oh, the anthrax incidents are still being investigated. They may well have nothing to do with Islamic groups.

Oh Yes Because the terrorist attacks were done by right wing neocons they don't count!:cool:

[sanjuro_ronin]

One thing, while Bubba was president, the US military was viewed quite highly because of their excellent work in the Balkans.
Saving all those Muslims COULD have been something to capitalize...

[Reality_Check]

Yup. So 2 attacks in 7 years.

Vs Clintons 3 attacks in 7 years.

So who has been more effective?

I guess it depends on what you mean by effective. Does it mean 1 fewer attack or less damaging attacks?

[BoulderDawg]

Well I hope all of you Neocons are happy. Bush just wrote a check for 700 Billion dollars and gave it to the fat cats on Wall Street.

That was really close!:eek: The purchase of all those new vacation homes in the Hamptons almost never happened!

[1bad65]

Clinton presided over the largest economic expansion in US history, Bush has virtually bankrupted America.

You tell me.

Clinton presided over an economy driven by something that has never happened in history.

The 'dot com' economy he prisided over was unique in that you had venture capitalists giving billions to people with no busness plans! Then those companies they started lost money hand over fist, admitted they could not say when they would see actual profits, and yet their stock prices soared. :confused:

The only thing Clinton did to help that happen was not to tax the Internet.

[1bad65]

Don't try to avoid the question. It's very simple. Do you or do you not want to live in the worker's utopia. I refuse to allow any other discussion until you answer this vital question.

If I don't understand the **** question, I'm not gonna answer it. Rephrase or explain it. Then I'll answer it. It's simple.

Or put me on ignore, I could give a sh!t.

[1bad65]

Oh Yes Because the terrorist attacks were done by right wing neocons they don't count!:cool:

Ok fine. I'll add that one to the list Clinton failed to stop. You happy now. :rolleyes:

[bodhitree]

Well I hope all of you Neocons are happy. Bush just wrote a check for 700 Billion dollars and gave it to the fat cats on Wall Street.

That was really close!:eek: The purchase of all those new vacation homes in the Hamptons almost never happened!


Yeah, all those fat cats. Like the people who need mortgages to buy a home or a loan for a car. Or a person who needs credit to start a small business.

Dam n those fatcats

[BoulderDawg]

I'll answer the question:

A workers Utopia? It sounds good to me! Good Union, Health Care, Benefits, Fair Wages, good/safe work environment and COL raises.......

Sign me up!

[1bad65]

Well I hope all of you Neocons are happy. Bush just wrote a check for 700 Billion dollars and gave it to the fat cats on Wall Street.

That was really close!:eek: The purchase of all those new vacation homes in the Hamptons almost never happened!

Are you mad at Nancy Pelosi, Chris 'Coutrywide' Dodd, Barney Frank, Chuck Schumer, and Barack Obama as well? ;)

I know Ron Paul voted against it. Maybe next time you can support him or a Libertarian candidate. Like I did in the primaries.

[bodhitree]

I'll answer the question:

A workers Utopia? It sounds good to me! Good Union, Health Care, Benefits, Fair Wages, good/safe work environment and COL raises.......

Sign me up!

and who gives these workers their jobs? the government?

[1bad65]

Yeah, all those fat cats. Like the people who need mortgages to buy a home or a loan for a car. Or a person who needs credit to start a small business.

Dam n those fatcats

The guy lives in a world all his own.

[BoulderDawg]

Yeah, all those fat cats. Like the people who need mortgages to buy a home or a loan for a car. Or a person who needs credit to start a small business.

Dam n those fatcats

And you think this 700 Billion is going to help those people.......:D:D:D

Man I have some foreclosed property I would like to sell to you CHEAP!!!!!!

[1bad65]

and who gives these workers their jobs? the government?

That's their ultimate goal. :eek:

[bodhitree]

The guy lives in a world all his own.

Yeah, he has a sleeping bag, he's ready:D

[SimonM]

If I don't understand the **** question, I'm not gonna answer it. Rephrase or explain it. Then I'll answer it. It's simple.

Or put me on ignore, I could give a sh!t.

Apparently you are too stupid to answer a simple question.

There will be no further discussion until you provide an answer.

[bodhitree]

Don't get me wrong, I think it SUCKS that we need this plan, but nevertheless we do.

[bodhitree]

And you think this 700 Billion is going to help those people.......:D:D:D

Yes. Credit helps the ENTIRE economy.

Man I have some foreclosed property I would like to sell to you CHEAP!!!!!!

No thanks, I'm not interested in any deal with someone who has such a fundamental inability to understand reality.

Go found your workers' party or whatever it is you want to do?

[BoulderDawg]

Are you mad at Nancy Pelosi, Chris 'Coutrywide' Dodd, Barney Frank, Chuck Schumer, and Barack Obama as well? ;)

I know Ron Paul voted against it. Maybe next time you can support him or a Libertarian candidate. Like I did in the primaries.

Oh You mean those Republicrats? I don't think you understand. I take issue with everyone in Washington. The Democrats are no different than the GOP. They're all conservative.

[1bad65]

Apparently you are too stupid to answer a simple question.

There will be no further discussion until you provide an answer.

Your too stupid to phrase an understandable question.

I know the debate continues.....;)

[1bad65]

Oh You mean those Republicrats? I don't think you understand. I take issue with everyone in Washington. The Democrats are no different than the GOP. They're all conservative.

Spoken like a true space cadet.

So wait!!!! Are you not voting in this election now?

[1bad65]

Man I have some foreclosed property I would like to sell to you CHEAP!!!!!!

Did you really have some property foreclosed on recently?

[BoulderDawg]

I only vote for people I can support. If a good liberal was running I would consider voting. However when you have a race with two conservatives I will not support either.

[BoulderDawg]

Did you really have some property foreclosed on recently?

Private property is theft. I don't own any.

[SimonM]

As everyone can see the imbecile 1bad65 is incapable of answering a straightforward question. It's easy: yes or no.

Yes or no, too difficult for 1bad65. What a genius.

[MasterKiller]

Private property is theft. I don't own any.

Good luck with that....

[GLW]

Again he mistakes guesses and correlation for causality.

If past behavior was proof of future events, then every investment in any venture advertised would not have the "Past performance is no true indicator of future performance"

You CAN play what if games and INFER things...but there is no connection...just as if you are looking at tossing a coin for heads...no matter how many times you do it, the odds that the NEXT toss is heads will always be 50/50...

So...how long have you been happy to live in fear....?

[SimonM]

How long can you avoid answering my question?

[GLW]

And I loved the "They hate America" part that cropped up every so often in Mooselini's words last night.

She failed to answer questions - both are guilty of that...but she had nothing beyond talking points....she was lucky (or was it by design) that follow ups and give and take was not allowed in the format.

The old 9/11 - what about the fact that there was NO Al Qaeda in Iraq before we invaded.... The hijackers credited with the 9/11 damage were mostly Saudi's.

Strange how ONLY Democrats were attacked with the anthrax stuff....and on it goes.

The lack of willingness to even look beyond your own view is what makes it impossible to discuss things....your frame is so limited.

So exactly where does social responsibility apply in your view of being patriotic?

[1bad65]

If past behavior was proof of future events, then every investment in any venture advertised would not have the "Past performance is no true indicator of future performance"

Ummm, that's a disclaimer. Put there for legal reasons. On an investment idea.

Completely different than examining a guy's voting record and showing his voting patterns.

Again, show me ONE tax cut Obama has voted for. Show me ONE tax increase he voted against. Show me ONE anti-abortion vote he cast.

[1bad65]

How long can you avoid answering my question?

Look moron, I'll type slow:

I......don't.....understand.....the....question... .. Rephrase.....it.....or......explain....it.....Then ........I......can....answer....it.

[1bad65]

The lack of willingness to even look beyond your own view is what makes it impossible to discuss things....your frame is so limited.

Like Clinton getting a pass on killing innocents over bad intelligence, but Bush being evil for doing the same thing?

[SimonM]

Look moron, I'll type slow:

I......don't.....understand.....the....question... .. Rephrase.....it.....or......explain....it.....Then ........I......can....answer....it.

Do you want to live in the worker's utopia?

What is so hard to understand about that question? Which word is not in your vocabulary?

Where is the deficiency in your fvcking education that you can't answer a simple yes/no question?

[BoulderDawg]

I answered it so..........

"Answer the f'ing question"

[1bad65]

Do you want to live in the worker's utopia?

I'll play.

Where is this "worker's utopia" located? What's the climate like? Who is the mayor? Is it a city? A state? A province? What's the life expectancy there? Who are the major employers there?

[1bad65]

I answered it so..........

And you think private property is theft. :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

I only vote for people I can support. If a good liberal was running I would consider voting. However when you have a race with two conservatives I will not support either.

So your not voting now?

Is Obama conservative in your opinion?

[GLW]

"Completely different than examining a guy's voting record and showing his voting patterns. "

Total nonsequitor

The response was that you were saying all of the things on Bush's watch had PREVENTED another terrorist attack in the US and your proof was simply that there had not been one. There was no mention of ANYONE'S voting patterns.

Of course, it WAS pointed out that you had omitted instances that did not support your thesis.

The point that was made is that correlation is not causality. You stated that my example of the shaman charm was incorrect because those evil terrorists hated America and were going to attack us here or there (ok...I am adding a bit of emphasis to your words...but you hopefully get the gist and if not... :( )

Simply because there have not been any further attacks on the US like 9/11 does not mean the war and Homeland security have had anything to do with it.

They have often touted the foiled attempts but have never been able to give an example of even one. Well, not true, there WAS the instance of the complete idiots in Florida who were arrested for talking like they were thinking about making a plan at some undisclosed instance in the future...and they were all US folks.... Even Fox news stopped talking about those guys after their complete idiocy was revealed.... AS in couldn't pour pi$$ out of a boot with the instructions written on the heal stupid....

You are still making a connection between correlations and cause that is invalid.

[Mas Judt]

GLW - I know as a fact that there have been attempts made that never ended up in the news. Our single biggest factor in our defense is the stunning stupidity demonstrated by the perps and the fact that our folks now, at least, have one eye open.

[1bad65]

This video is great. It follows the money through the whole subprime mess.

Mas, you will really like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU6fuFrdCJY

[1bad65]

Simply because there have not been any further attacks on the US like 9/11 does not mean the war and Homeland security have had anything to do with it.

Let's just assume your right. Ok. Play along.

How will cutting the military and intelligence budgets as Obama wants to do, make us any safer?

[BoulderDawg]

Let's just assume your right. Ok. Play along.

How will cutting the military and intelligence budgets as Obama wants to do, make us any safer?

I don't know about you but I don't hide inside my house wondering that if I go outside if the terrorist will get me!:D......and if they cut the military budget it won't change my feeling one way or the other.

However if you are afraid to walk out of your house maybe you can get some local martial artists to bodyguard for ya.

[Reality_Check]

GLW - I know as a fact that there have been attempts made that never ended up in the news. Our single biggest factor in our defense is the stunning stupidity demonstrated by the perps and the fact that our folks now, at least, have one eye open.

Really? You know as a fact? Could you please list some of these attempts?

[1bad65]

I don't know about you but I don't hide inside my house wondering that if I go outside if the terrorist will get me!:D......and if they cut the military budget it won't change my feeling one way or the other.

However if you are afraid to walk out of your house maybe you can get some local martial artists to bodyguard for ya.

Aren't you guy the guy prepping for Armageddon? :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

Really? You know as a fact? Could you please list some of these attempts?

Why even ask.

You know his answers 'wont count' or you'll say more would have been foiled under a liberal Administration.

[Reality_Check]

Why even ask.

You know his answers 'wont count' or you'll say more would have been foiled under a liberal Administration.

Actually, no. I would like to learn about these attacks and how he knows about them without any news reports. Especially, how he knows them for a fact.

[SimonM]

I'll play.

Where is this "worker's utopia" located? What's the climate like? Who is the mayor? Is it a city? A state? A province? What's the life expectancy there? Who are the major employers there?

You haven't even read the Coles Notes version of anything by Marx have you 1bigmoron?

[1bad65]

You haven't even read the Coles Notes version of anything by Marx have you 1bigmoron?

Nope. I have no interest in reading what that fool had to say. I just know that Marxism has failed everywhere it's been tried.

Is that good enough for you, SimonMoron?

[1bad65]

Looks like Barney Frank had another reason to lie about Fannie Mae:

"Unqualified home buyers were not the only ones who benefitted from Massachusetts Rep. Barney Frank’s efforts to deregulate Fannie Mae throughout the 1990s.

So did Frank’s partner, a Fannie Mae executive at the forefront of the agency’s push to relax lending restrictions.

Now that Fannie Mae is at the epicenter of a financial meltdown that threatens the U.S. economy, some are raising new questions about Frank's relationship with Herb Moses, who was Fannie’s assistant director for product initiatives. Moses worked at the government-sponsored enterprise from 1991 to 1998, while Frank was on the House Banking Committee, which had jurisdiction over Fannie."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,432501,00.html


Looks like borrowers weren't the only ones taking it in the ____. :eek:

[SimonM]

Nope. I have no interest in reading what that fool had to say. I just know that Marxism has failed everywhere it's been tried.

Is that good enough for you, SimonMoron?

No, it's not good enough for me you Ayn Rand worshipping troglodite. But I live in hope that this little exchange has demonstrated to you how fvcking annoying and devoid of content your method of debate is.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

...So, who's an alumni? :D

[1bad65]

No, it's not good enough for me you Ayn Rand worshipping troglodite. But I live in hope that this little exchange has demonstrated to you how fvcking annoying and devoid of content your method of debate is.

Never read her books either. Speaking of content, where has Marxism worked? ;)

Well thank God you're Canadian and can't vote in this election. On second thought, maybe ACORN can help you vote several times in this election.

[GLW]

I love this "I know for a fact ...did not make the news..." line that crops up so often.

We have the atrocity on civil liberties labeled Fatherland - opps, I mean Homeland Security..and an administration that has taken literally every opportunity to tout their efforts to thwart the terrorists...

So much so that each example they have published in the media has been an example of stupidity on the part of the one arrested...and an example of how unnecessary the provisions in the homeland security lawas were unnecessary...

Not to mention the argument that the only people the Homeland laws have been used against so far have not been terrorists but people who were protesting or outspoken against this administration.

But, HAD there been good examples of people caught plotting anything because of Homeland security...the administration and their lapdog, Fox news, would have been shouting it all from the rooftops... Hear any shouting?

Vigilance on common sense things has made a bigger difference than HS.... and WOULD have made a bigger difference pre-911...had the Bushies even listened when they were told more than once about Al Qaeda and their threat...the warnings that were there before the attack...and all....well documented...but totally ignored by such right wing fascists and neocons.

In fact, had the information and laws on the books been used BEFORE 9/11, it can be very ably argued that those attacks could have been averted.... but that would have required a competent administration that was focused on their job and NOT on gutting things like their political enemies in the Justice Department.

And you want 4 or 8 more years of that?

Then you have the statistical fact that McCain has had multiple melanomas. The last one in 2000 was either a class 2 or 3. The medical procedures used are typical of class 3 - the worse of the two...

And then you look at surviors of such melanomas...for class 3 of that type, 38% are still alive 10 years later. That combined with McCain's age and the actuarial tables for life expectancy...

Add it all together and there is a greater than 50% likelihood that McCain's VP will be a president by death... So...is she REALLY what anyone wants as the president?

[David Jamieson]

lol.

It's a dilemma to be sure.

Good luck America.

nobody likes a tyrant, except for ignoramuses who can't spot one I suppose.

[BoulderDawg]

"McCain's advisers say the Arizona senator will ramp up his attacks in the coming days with a tougher, more focused message describing "who Obama is," including questioning his character," - AP

Wow!....What a surprise!:D

You know let forget the presidency for a moment - Can anyone here even begin to guess as to the numbler of seat in congress the democrats will get......Is 75% possible? Doubtful but who knows!:eek:

[cam]

Hi 1bad65, I noticed that you are not impressed by Marxism.
To tell the truth I don't like any "ism's" much myself.
Though are you aware that in the U.S. Life expectancy is going down, infant death is going up...in fact Americans are apparently shrinking in height.
I think you should be concerned!

[Lucas]

i just saw this funny interview with matt damon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6urw_PWHYk&NR=1

[Lucas]

i havent been following this thread,

but who here wants this palin woman to be their president?

does someone really, like actually want her to be in control if mcain dies? which he likely will.

god i wish he would just get it over with and die now to open everyones eyes

[BoulderDawg]

Matt was wrong on one thing......

She doesn't stand any chance of being elected VP or becoming President.

The GOP knows this and have moved into the scorched earth phase of their campaign. The "guilt by association" thing that Sarah brought up on staurday......come on.... Does the GOP think the American people are that stupid? That was really laughable. I'm glad I'll never run for president...My picture is currently in the celebrity section of Hollywood.com...:D No doubt I would be on the Republicans "S" list!

In any case I think Obama should just play it cool and let them sling as much mud as they can. He doesn't need to get involved....I'm just wondering if McCain really wants to go there. I am sure that there are plenty of democratic groups that will play the guilt by association game with Mac. And form what I heard on Meet The Press today that gets pretty bad for Johnny.

[BoulderDawg]

god i wish he would just get it over with and die now to open everyones eyes

I wonder what would happen if McCain Died. Would Palin just bump up and run against Obama? I'm thinking they would get to chose another candidate.

[1bad65]

Though are you aware that in the U.S. Life expectancy is going down, infant death is going up...in fact Americans are apparently shrinking in height.
I think you should be concerned!

The root of that problem is that alot of Americans eat like sh!t and don't take care of themselves. Heart disease is the biggest killer of Americans. And heart disease can be headed off in many cases by exercising and eating right.

I went to my 15-yr high school reuinion a few years ago. I'm not in excellent shape by any means, I work out at the gym 2-5 times a week. I varies. Not to be conceited, but I had to have been the most fit guy there. Over half of the guys had beer guts. It was embarrassing.

[1bad65]

"McCain's advisers say the Arizona senator will ramp up his attacks in the coming days with a tougher, more focused message describing "who Obama is," including questioning his character," - AP

Wow!....What a surprise!:D

You know let forget the presidency for a moment - Can anyone here even begin to guess as to the numbler of seat in congress the democrats will get......Is 75% possible? Doubtful but who knows!:eek:

What's wrong with pointing out he got over $100k from Fannie and Freddie? What's wrong with showing his association with that Ayres nutbar? What's wrong with showing a convicted felon helped him get his house? What's wrong with showing he followed a racist pastor for 20 years? It's all true.

As to Congress, I do worry the Democrats will have some gains. But don't forget that Congress' approval numbers are lower then Bush's are.

[BoulderDawg]

What's wrong with pointing out he got over $100k from Fannie and Freddie? What's wrong with showing his association with that Ayres nutbar? What's wrong with showing a convicted felon helped him get his house? What's wrong with showing he followed a racist pastor for 20 years? It's all true.

Go for it!!!!! See if the American people buy it. Bring back the Swiftboaters!!!!:D

[1bad65]

Go for it!!!!! See if the American people buy it. Bring back the Swiftboaters!!!!:D

The truth gave us victory last time. :D

[BoulderDawg]

Go for it! Don't tell me....Just continue to get as nasty and disgusting as you can...as you say "the truth" will set you free.

[Lucas]

I wonder what would happen if McCain Died. Would Palin just bump up and run against Obama? I'm thinking they would get to chose another candidate.

thats a good question.

[Lucas]

The root of that problem is that alot of Americans eat like sh!t and don't take care of themselves. Heart disease is the biggest killer of Americans. And heart disease can be headed off in many cases by exercising and eating right.

I went to my 15-yr high school reuinion a few years ago. I'm not in excellent shape by any means, I work out at the gym 2-5 times a week. I varies. Not to be conceited, but I had to have been the most fit guy there. Over half of the guys had beer guts. It was embarrassing.

ahh, but that had to make you feel good. knowing you could kick every guys ass in the room is always a confidense booster ;)

[1bad65]

Go for it! Don't tell me....Just continue to get as nasty and disgusting as you can...as you say "the truth" will set you free.

What part that I typed was not true? ;)

[1bad65]

ahh, but that had to make you feel good. knowing you could kick every guys ass in the room is always a confidense booster ;)

And if I couldn't have, I could have ran away with ease. ;)

My wife noticed the same thing. Americans are lazy when it comes to eating and exercising. Sad, but true.

[BoulderDawg]

What part that I typed was not true? ;)

As I said, from here on out, go after Obama with everything that you have. Attack the man's character and decency and link him to people and events from years back. Let the American people decide who is the most decent (afterall that's what we are talking about, Isn't it) between the two candidates. Just like they did in the 50s with McCarthy.

The "Pals around with terrorists" is already coming back on McCain. Honestly, If conservatives continue down this road they are going to regret it. Where does it go next? Sexuality? Something else? I'll be honest I kinda hate to see the Republicans destroy themselves in this manner.

With this ecomomic crisis unfolding in front of us Americans don't care to hear candidates calling each other terrorists or whatever. As I said, since the gloves are off now then what's next? Whatever it is I'm sure it will be a personal attack by the GOP.

[1bad65]

Despite your rant, you still can't say any of it is untrue. And neither can Obama.

I thought you weren't voting anyway. :rolleyes:

[BoulderDawg]

As with the Communist which hunts in the 50s there are grains of truth in the statements. It you want me to say that that what you say is true then that's fine....I have no problem with that. My guess is Obama would say the same thing.....Yes he has "associated" with Bill Ayes and Rev Wright....As far as the other stuff....I don't know but I'll take your word for it. Why not?

I guess the real question here is just how far does McCain plan to push this. He's already lost the election. Does he plan to maybe carry 20-30 congressmen down with him due to his personal attacks? That's what going to happen.

Any bets on the debate tuesday night? I'll say that when debating Obama that he won't even have the decency to mention Bill Ayes to his face.

[Corwyn]

What's wrong with pointing out he got over $100k from Fannie and Freddie?


Well, how about the fact that it's a LIE!
INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE who work at Fannie and Freddie have donated $120K to Obama and the PAC who is ACTUALLY meant in this context when they say Fannie and Freddie gave Obama a whopping $6000 while giving McLiar $21K and $0 from individuals.
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/update-fannie-mae-and-freddie.html

So the REALITY of this story is that McSenile and apparently you are either incapable of fact checking or are just ****ed off that fannie and freddie hire or have mostly dem leaning employees who are also politically involved.

Your/McCains analogy here is the same as if we found out that YOU donated money to the KKK and we started claiming that Kung Fu magazine is an anti semitic organization because they gave money to the KKK.

Or if you were a member of say the IBEW because you're an electrician and since they donated money to Obama, then YOU must be voting for him too.

That makes SOOOOOO much sense!!!!
And fine if you want to be pedant it isn't exactly a lie, BUT it certain IS NOT the Truth. But this is nothing new from republicans.




What's wrong with showing his association with that Ayres nutbar?


You seem to be on a role here! The very source that gave life to this none sense
CLEARLY states that Obama condemned Ayres actions and that they in fact had nothing in common. Are you claiming that Obama needs to vet EVERY member of every organization he gets involved in!?

That makes about as much sense as McCain having to vet his VP pick to make sure that she is not a member of or endorses an ANTI American organization that promoted treason


OH WAIT

[1bad65]

So the REALITY of this story is that McSenile and apparently you are either incapable of fact checking or are just ****ed off that fannie and freddie hire or have mostly dem leaning employees who are also politically involved.

**** right I am, and that's because it's gonna cost us $700 billion to fix the mess they created.

[bakxierboxer]

The root of that problem is that alot of Americans eat like sh!t and don't take care of themselves. Heart disease is the biggest killer of Americans. And heart disease can be headed off in many cases by exercising and eating right....

A lot of what you put forth is "true".

OTOH, a good deal of what the fellow thinks is endemic to the US population (decreasing height, etc) is actually from averaging the physical attributes of the influx of "3rd worlders" whose developement has suffered from the poorer nutritional standards extant in their home of origin.

[Mr Punch]

Republicanism: what you believe in when
you're out of touch,
out of ideas,
and running out of time!

:D

[MasterKiller]

Jews for Obama (http://thegreatschlep.com/site/index.html)

[Xiao3 Meng4]

...so all of these people that are losing their homes... becoming homeless... will they still be allowed to vote? Will they be able to vote without jumping through crazy paperwork hoops? Either way, will they still have the will to do so?

...any idea as to whether or not there is a trend regarding the newly homeless and their political inclinations?

[1bad65]

...so all of these people that are losing their homes... becoming homeless... will they still be allowed to vote? Will they be able to vote without jumping through crazy paperwork hoops? Either way, will they still have the will to do so?

...any idea as to whether or not there is a trend regarding the newly homeless and their political inclinations?

As long as they registered in time, they get to vote.

I would assume most will vote Democrat. Anyone stupid enough to sign one of those mortgages fits their demographic perfectly.

[GLW]

Talk about closed minded prejudiced posting...

First, the GOP voting police are targeting people who are not living where their registration says they live. Basically, they will challenge the vote if the home was foreclosed, if the person recently moved, if they are overseas - as in serving in the military.... so they are disenfranchising thousands of LEGAL voters.

Second, to paint everyone who got into the mortgage mess with the same brush...

Well, I hope that includes the captains of banking who are at the top of this cr@ap mountain....

Vitriol is amazing

[1bad65]

First, the GOP voting police are targeting people who are not living where their registration says they live.

And thats a problem? :confused:

Second, to paint everyone who got into the mortgage mess with the same brush...

Stupid is stupid. Like it or not, it's true. If you signed an adjustable rate mortgage, you're an idiot. Especially at a time when interest rates were so low. :confused: They could only go up!! Idiocracy on parade.

Well, I hope that includes the captains of banking who are at the top of this cr@ap mountain....

They were stupid too. Although they did get those who allowed them to screw up this bad to bail them out. So they are less stupid than the people who got the ARMs. ;)

[BoulderDawg]

The DOW is down 600 today and still dropping.....Yep! That bailout seems to have mad a real difference to "Joe Six-Pac"!:D

Anyway 60 minutes had an interesting peice last night. I agreed with it totally. It laid 100% of the blame on the fat cats on Wall Street...exactly wher it should be.

I'm not going to go very deep into here but what they did was structure the sale of these high risk investments in such a way that was so complicated that not even Wall Street veterans could understand them. Then they sold Insurance on the loans. However instead of calling it insurance they referred to it as "Swaps". A "Swap" is not subject to government regulation therefore they did not have to keep reserves on hand....So when the bottom fell out of the housing market people were trying to cash in their insurance policy...problem was these banks that issued the policies didn't have the money to pay......The house of cards came down.....

In any case fasten your seat belts boys...It's going to get rough!

[1bad65]

Anyway 60 minutes had an interesting peice last night. I agreed with it totally. It laid 100% of the blame on the fat cats on Wall Street...exactly wher it should be.

A truly neutral outlet. :rolleyes: That's where Dan Rather came from. You remember him, the guy who said those documents faxed from Kinko's were legit and proved GW Bush lied about his military service.

In any case fasten your seat belts boys...It's going to get rough!

If Obama gets elected, it's gonna be even worse. Tax increases are what Carter tried to fix a bad economy, and we all saw the results that brought.

[1bad65]

So when the bottom fell out of the housing market .....

Which was due to the morons who signed up for these ARMs defaulting on them.

[Mas Judt]

Jews for Obama

There were Jews who supported the Nazis too. Come to think of it, the Nazi's promised many of the same programs, and had people behaving like this too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUEQz5dltmI


and had followers who shout down or demonize opponents.

Just seems odd to me...

This is going to be interesting, especially since BOTH parties seem to realize that tis battle will be one on emotions rather than facts...

[BoulderDawg]

A truly neutral outlet. :rolleyes: That's where Dan Rather came from. You remember him, the guy who said those documents faxed from Kinko's were legit and proved GW Bush lied about his military service.

I was just over at Kinko's...I didn't see Dan anywhere....Your information is flawed!

The bottom fell out of the housing market because of Wall Street greed...but no matter keep blaming hard working Americans if it makes you feel better.

This whole thing is like watching a street gang beat up an old lady. The street gang (Wall Street) just starts beating this old lady(American citizens) while the spectators (Bush, McCain and the rest of the conservatives) stand there and do nothing.

[MasterKiller]

If Obama gets elected, it's gonna be even worse. Tax increases are what Carter tried to fix a bad economy, and we all saw the results that brought. Good thing Obama is going to lower taxes!

[GLW]

OK...we now have 1bad on record as saying it is OK to target registered voters who happen to be living - albeit temporarily - away from their registered address....

As in, it is OK to disenfranchise a SOLDIER serving overseas...as in Iraq - because he is not living where he is registered.

How does this work?

Well, in 2006, they targetted voters - primarily democrats - who fit this bill. They then sent them mail. When the mail was not answered in X number of days, the voter was removed from eligible roles.

OK... why is this bad...well, if you are serving overseas, you would not have gotten the mail and had time to respond to it in the allotted time.

If your residence was where you registered 2 years ago, and you moved shortly after the election...just down the street...but still in the district, you should STILL be able to vote...but if mail is sent to your old address, the post office is only required to forward it for a limited time. So...if the response is what i required to validate your registration...and the mail is not forwarded to you, you will be disenfranchised.

Hmm...hardly a one person one vote... and it is mainly a GOP trick.

If you fall on hard times and lose your home...and are living in your same district...but with friends or such a few days here and there....you would be disenfranchised.

Again, not exactly according to Hoyle there either.

And WHY do this to these populations? Well, the GOP has figured out that they CAN disenfranchise voiceless Democrats without too much trouble...the money for the class action suit or legal fess - you have to find a pro bono lawyer....

Of course, 1bad is in the business of saying who Should and Should NOT be eligible to vote.

He is also in the business of labeling stupidity. The Stupid, More Stupid, and Less Stupid slots... and those captains of banking are in the less stupid slot since they walked away with heft golden parachutes....

Labels...aren't they fun... and don't they allow you to ignore a problem or a person...

[1bad65]

Good thing Obama is going to lower taxes!

Wanna bet on that? ;)

[1bad65]

I was just over at Kinko's...I didn't see Dan anywhere....Your information is flawed!

The bottom fell out of the housing market because of Wall Street greed...but no matter keep blaming hard working Americans if it makes you feel better.

Dude, your just ****ed in the head. There's no other way to put it.

The stuff I posted on Rather was correct. Period.

How is it Wall Street's fault that people agreed to pay for something they could not afford and then defaulted? Please explain that to me.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

we all know that us elections are won on emotion. I mean, look at the ratio of emotion vs. facts on this thread alone.

[1bad65]

OK...we now have 1bad on record as saying it is OK to target registered voters who happen to be living - albeit temporarily - away from their registered address....

As in, it is OK to disenfranchise a SOLDIER serving overseas...as in Iraq - because he is not living where he is registered.

Bullsh!t. I never said that. Military personnel have a totally different way of voting. This is common knowledge.

Well, in 2006, they targetted voters - primarily democrats - who fit this bill. They then sent them mail. When the mail was not answered in X number of days, the voter was removed from eligible roles.

Proof please? FYI, this is the way to do it right. I do however want proof Democrats were targetted unfairly.

Of course, 1bad is in the business of saying who Should and Should NOT be eligible to vote.

I think I said if you were registered in time, you got to vote. Am I incorrect?

He is also in the business of labeling stupidity. The Stupid, More Stupid, and Less Stupid slots... and those captains of banking are in the less stupid slot since they walked away with heft golden parachutes....

Labels...aren't they fun... and don't they allow you to ignore a problem or a person...

Again, I was 100% correct. You may not like my way of putting it, but it's 100% true no matter how much you dislike the messenger.

The morons who signed them and defaulted lost their homes. The banks who issued them got bailed out. Who is more stupid? ;)

FYI, I don't have a problem. Why? Because I said no when offered an ARM. Because I have $0 in credit card debt. Because I don't spend more than I earn. If others are too stupid to live this way, too bad.

[Hebrew Hammer]

If Obama gets elected, it's gonna be even worse. Tax increases are what Carter tried to fix a bad economy, and we all saw the results that brought.

No its a much better policy to cut taxes for the weatlhiest Americans and increase spending everywhere else...creating a national debt of over 10 trillion big ones...lets see, under successive Republican administrations Reagan, Bush 1, and W. we moved from the biggest creditor in the world to the biggest debtor nation....the Chinese own trillions of dollars of our nations treasury...hmmm...a pretty good idea to give our biggest rival that kind of economic muscle over us.

Trickle Down theory: Pure fantasy...ask any republican for the last time anyone else's wealth trickled down to them. They always want to move on to the next question

Deregulation: its burns to common man EVERY time. Greed trumps common sense and public safety/benefit every time.

[1bad65]

Trickle Down theory: Pure fantasy...ask any republican for the last time anyone else's wealth trickled down to them. They always want to move on to the next question

Quick question:

Under whose Administration did Obama become a millionaire? ;)

[1bad65]

Your information is flawed!

Wrong again, idiot.

Documents allegedly written by a deceased officer that raised questions about President Bush's service with the Texas Air National Guard bore markings showing they had been faxed to CBS News from a Kinko's copy shop in Abilene, Tex., according to another former Guard officer who was shown the records by the network.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24635-2004Sep15.html

[BoulderDawg]

Wrong again, idiot.

Documents allegedly written by a deceased officer that raised questions about President Bush's service with the Texas Air National Guard bore markings showing they had been faxed to CBS News from a Kinko's copy shop in Abilene, Tex., according to another former Guard officer who was shown the records by the network.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24635-2004Sep15.html

And all of that has to do with "what"?????? Bush will be leaving in less than 4 months. If someone had listened to Dan, right or wrong, and kicked Bush out 4 years ago we would not be in this current mess.

But whatever makes you happy man! Sure Bush served with honors...How many lives did he save in Vietnam? Hundreds upon hundreds I'm sure. He had tro have won the Medal of Honor at least twice!

[BoulderDawg]

Quick question:

Under whose Administration did Obama become a millionaire? ;)


Hoover?

Do I win a prize for the correct answer!:p

[Mas Judt]

The folks who need this the most won't read it, but this is pretty accurate:

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/16171/

[BoulderDawg]

Isn't that the guy who called me a "Terrorist" for wearing my Che T shirt?

I have a picture somewher.e..I'm going to have to post it here!:D

[1bad65]

And all of that has to do with "what"??????

You posted what 60 Minutes said about the credit crisis. I pointed out that they are not neutral and sloppy journalists and gave proof.

[1bad65]

Isn't that the guy who called me a "Terrorist" for wearing my Che T shirt?

I have a picture somewher.e..I'm going to have to post it here!:D

You ever go up to a soldier and tell him what you said here you were?

If someone wearing that murdering coward's picture ever disrespects me, I'll do all in my power to break every bone in his body.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The folks who need this the most won't read it, but this is pretty accurate:

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/16171/

So, the government is at fault for go along with an (incorrect) view in hopes of stimulating the economy ( housing market), the lenders are at fault because they gave out loans and mortages to people that couldn't afford them. probably because they beleived it to be a win-win situation - pay the loan, great, don't pay, foreclose and get money anyways ( too bad market values dropped due to bad economy), the borrowers are at fault because they took a chance they would probably never get again.
So, everyone is at fault YET only the financial that thought it was win-win get bailed out?
Nice...
Typical really.

[sanjuro_ronin]

One thing though, why would anyone want the face of any revolutionary on a T-shirt?
Ghandi I can understand, but anyone that has killed with that whole 'end justifies the means" crap, I don't get.

[SimonM]

The neo-con creedo: help only those who have already (extensively) helped themselves.

[Mas Judt]

the mind, it boggles...

Ghost of Hoover is phantom of liberals' imagination
Jonah Goldberg | Tribune Media Services
October 6, 2008
A very old story is once again being retold, with a few of the characters' names
updated to besmirch the innocent. In this story, conservatives are to blame for
an economic crisis because they allegedly believe there is no role for
government in the economy, and all economic crises are due to lax regulation of
markets.

Cokie Roberts recently gave a sense of how old this story is on ABC's This Week.
She said of John McCain, "He's a Republican, and whenever Republicans get into
this kind of mess, everybody, even people who were not born or close to being
born, the specter of Herbert Hoover comes out to haunt them."

Everybody?

Roberts is correct in one sense. The specter of Herbert Hoover is conjured every
time there's an economic calamity, large or small.



But you know what? Specters are ghosts. And ghosts aren't real.

The Herbert Hoover of popular imagination was a laissez-faire lickspittle of Adam Smith. But this idea began as Rooseveltian propaganda and
endures as the creation myth of modern liberalism.

William Leuchtenburg, possibly the greatest authority on the FDR era, wrote some
time ago, "Almost every historian now recognizes that the image of Hoover as a
'do-nothing' president is inaccurate."

After the stock market crash of 1929, Hoover browbeat business leaders to keep
wages and prices high. He invested heavily in public works projects. He pushed
for an international moratorium on debts. He created the Reconstruction Finance
Corporation, which later became a home for many of FDR's Brain Trusters. Hoover
increased farm subsidies enormously.

Some of Hoover's interventions were good but ineffectual. A few were very, very
bad.

In 1932, Hoover in effect repealed Calvin Coolidge's tax cuts, increasing the
rates for the poorest taxpayers by more than 100 percent and hiking the top rate
from 25 percent to 63 percent. Worse, contrary to his own better instincts,
Hoover signed the disastrous Smoot-Hawley trade bill that raised protectionist walls at
precisely the moment the world needed trade the most.

Then there's this idea that FDR rode to the rescue, saving the day by untying
the American people from the railroad tracks of runaway capitalism. Former
Clinton Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers, now a surrogate for Barack Obama,
recently said on NPR: "It's very tempting to always think that the government
should just stand back and let the private sector sort these problems out.
That's the kind of thinking that made the Depression 'Great.' "

Summers should know better (in fact, I'm sure he does). The Great Depression was
not made "Great" by government inaction. Indeed, FDR's New Deal may have been
wonderful in some mytho-poetic sense, and maybe some of its reforms can be
defended in some broader context, but as an effort to end the Great Depression,
the New Deal was a failure.

As my colleague Mark Steyn writes, "Lots of other places -- from Britain to
Australia -- took a hit in 1929 but, alas, they lacked an FDR to keep it going till the end of
the Thirties. That's why in other countries they refer to it as "the
Depression," but only in the U.S. is it 'Great.' "

Today we're hearing a similar argument about John McCain or, more often, his
evil henchman, former Sen. Phil Gramm as Herbert Hoover's mini-me.

"Phil Gramm, one of the architects of the deregulation in Washington that led
directly to this mess on Wall Street, is also the architect of John McCain's
economic plan," Obama said recently. A couple of problems: Gramm is no longer
with the McCain campaign.

More important: This is nonsense on stilts. The deregulation that the Obama camp
most often cites is the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which passed the Senate in 1999
by a 90-8 margin and was signed enthusiastically by Bill Clinton. Thirty-eight
Democrats voted for it, including Chuck Schumer, John Kerry, Chris Dodd, John
Edwards, **** Durbin, Tom Daschle and Barack Obama's running mate, Joe Biden.
The "Leach" in the legislation's title was a founder of Republicans for Obama.

Moreover, nothing in that law has much to do with today's financial meltdown.
Indeed, it has helped some financial institutions weather the storm precisely
because they are more diversified.

Also, who are the real Hoovers here? Obama is sympathetic to protectionism, as
is his party. He says he will raise taxes on the top income earners, and if he's
remotely honest about his spending ambitions, he will have to raise taxes on
everybody else as well.

Meanwhile, who sought to intervene when Fannie Mae metastasized? John McCain.
Who wanted to keep the party going? The party of Roosevelt. There's blame all
around, but nothing today supports the liberal ghost stories of yesterday.




Jonah Goldberg can be reached at Jonah' sColumn@aol.com

[Mas Judt]

So, the government is at fault for go along with an (incorrect) view in hopes of stimulating the economy ( housing market), the lenders are at fault because they gave out loans and mortages to people that couldn't afford them. probably because they beleived it to be a win-win situation - pay the loan, great, don't pay, foreclose and get money anyways ( too bad market values dropped due to bad economy), the borrowers are at fault because they took a chance they would probably never get again.
So, everyone is at fault YET only the financial that thought it was win-win get bailed out?
Nice...
Typical really.

One thing though, why would anyone want the face of any revolutionary on a T-shirt?
Ghandi I can understand, but anyone that has killed with that whole 'end justifies the means" crap, I don't get.

Sanjuro is knocking the correct out of the park and giving the team that isn't allowed to play a home run...

[Vajramusti]

I dont want to prolong this silly non kung fu thread. But it's Gandhi not Ghandi.
Thank you

joy chaudhuri

[1bad65]

The neo-con creedo: help only those who have already (extensively) helped themselves.

The liberal creedo: help those who are so stupid they screwed themselves. And help them with other people's money, too.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I dont want to prolong this silly non kung fu thread. But it's Gandhi not Ghandi.
Thank you

joy chaudhuri

My bad, sorry, I tend to rush when I type...

[1bad65]

Punishing success and rewarding failure is a recipe for disaster.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Punishing success and rewarding failure is a recipe for disaster.

True, YET, if the senate didn't pass it and the economy tanked, it would be "all their fault", they pass it and it works, great, it still tanks they can say, "we told you so, but you made us pass it", blah, blah, blah...

[SimonM]

The socialist creedo: Help everybody equally, regardless of their stupidity.

I support a welfare state. And the CEOs of the huge banks that tanked should be equally allowed to partake in food stamps and welfare cheques as single moms in the ghetto if they end up unemployed.

And they should have equal access to fully nationalized health care.

[1bad65]

I support a welfare state.

Good for you. Enjoy Canada.

[1bad65]

Obama is sympathetic to protectionism, as
is his party. He says he will raise taxes on the top income earners, and if he's
remotely honest about his spending ambitions, he will have to raise taxes on
everybody else as well.

I'm still waiting for his supporters here to answer how he can create $800 billion in new spending and cut taxes on 95% of Americans. :rolleyes:

And notice MK won't take a sig bet on it either.

[1bad65]

True, YET, if the senate didn't pass it and the economy tanked, ...

Considering they didn't repeal the CRA and institute new regulations on lenders, it very well may happen again. Just like the airline industry...:rolleyes:

[BoulderDawg]

If someone wearing that murdering coward's picture ever disrespects me, I'll do all in my power to break every bone in his body.

"not only an intellectual but also the most complete human being of our age."

Jean-Paul Satre (Speaking of Che Guevara)

Che is a personal hero of mine....Anyone wearing his likeness is welcomed in my home anytime.

You,re big at asking questions...How about answering one of mine: Who did Che Kill? Can you name anyone?

[SimonM]

I know I have a Che shirt around here somewhere....

Next time I disrespect 1bad65 I will endeavor to be wearing it.

Oh, hey here it is...

puts on shirt

1bad65 your mother pleasured GDA. Furthermore you smell like an incontinent beagle.

takes off shirt

[BoulderDawg]

I know I have a Che shirt around here somewhere....

Next time I disrespect 1bad65 I will endeavor to be wearing it.

Oh, hey here it is...

puts on shirt

1bad65 your mother pleasured GDA. Furthermore you smell like an incontinent beagle.

takes off shirt

:D:D:D:D:D

Bad doesn't want to be on the wrong side of the revolution when it gets started.

PS I'm putting on my Che shirt as soon as I get home!

[GLW]

So military have a different way of voting...how about reserve and national guard who are deployed. They are the ones this has been done to...and they have to request the ballots...and a few other things.

You really should look for sources of problems beyond your neo-con world. To deny even one person their right to vote when they are legit is --- ANTI-DEMOCRATIC...and dare I say it ANTI-AMERICAN. So...how anti-American are you?

[1bad65]

You,re big at asking questions...How about answering one of mine: Who did Che Kill? Can you name anyone?

And big at answering them. Try it sometime.


Here are 216:

http://www.cubaarchive.org/downloads/CA08.pdf

[1bad65]

I know I have a Che shirt around here somewhere....

I'm putting on my Che shirt as soon as I get home!

You two are pieces of sh!t just like the garbage that wears Hitler shirts and has swastika tattoos.

[1bad65]

So military have a different way of voting...how about reserve and national guard who are deployed. They are the ones this has been done to...and they have to request the ballots...and a few other things.

You really should look for sources of problems beyond your neo-con world. To deny even one person their right to vote when they are legit is --- ANTI-DEMOCRATIC...and dare I say it ANTI-AMERICAN. So...how anti-American are you?

So I was correct. Again.

FYI, it was the Democrats tried to disqualify military ballots in Florida during the 2000 Presidental Election.

FYI, military personnel tend to vote Republican. Why would us 'neo-cons' not want to let them vote? :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

Bad doesn't want to be on the wrong side of the revolution when it gets started.

Yeah, successful Communist revolutions always end in mass murder. Glad you support that.

[Mas Judt]

You two are pieces of sh!t just like the garbage that wears Hitler shirts and has swastika tattoos.

I second this. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Disgusting.

[Mas Judt]

and now the voice of reason:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-9CV-qbMw&eurl=http://www.prisonplanet.com/ron-paul-bailout-unconstitutional-special-interests-forced-bill-through-congress.html

[1bad65]

Last time I heard Obama said he would stick to the issues.

So he lied about that.

"Sen. Barack Obama's campaign Monday tried to draw a parallel between Sen. John McCain's involvement in the nearly 2-decade-old "Keating Five" scandal and the current economic crisis."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/06/campaign.wrap/index.html

But don't worry, he's telling the truth about tax cuts. :rolleyes:

[BoulderDawg]

And big at answering them. Try it sometime.


Here are 216:

http://www.cubaarchive.org/downloads/CA08.pdf

Considering the source I don't take a whole lot of stock in that. Sorry but you are going to have to provide an unbaised source.

Now if you want a real mass murderer let's loook at George Bush. I was reading an article over the weekend that estimates that 1.25 million Iraqis have died in Bush's war.......I'll have to dig that article up later tonight and post a link to it.

[1bad65]

Considering the source I don't take a whole lot of stock in that. Sorry but you are going to have to provide an unbaised source.

Why do you even bother to ask for sources and proof when you're just going to say it 'doesnt count' anyway? :rolleyes:

[GLW]

The ballots from before that you were talking about with the Democrats was done via the elections commissions and the courts....all open and in the light.

The mail out for people like the reservists and the national guard....and other people with the letter requiring response was totally under the covers. It took a couple of investigative journalists to uncover that one...and it WAS reported in the BBC.

Now, were this say, 1960, I would agree with you that the Democrats were really bad about disenfranchising voters. It was known as Jim Crow. Of course, if you are not old enough to remember Poll Tax and even the "Colored" water fountains, bathrooms, etc... I am...and do.

But what has happened since is that a large portion of those involved in that round of voter blocking have switched to the GOP. Same ideas, slightly different tactics...and they are no longer just against black people...but against lower economic levels...and progressives, and anyone who is not a neocon...and they are actively trying to prevent the vote from being taken on people they do not agree with.

Basically, if you can't win with the rules, chage them.

This is the GOP approach on voting, their approach on counting the vote is Deibold and ES&S...and then they dothings like notices to people about voting...that are actually suggestions that they NOT vote....

Again, all of this is available info if you read or listen to other sources...like the BBC...

But your frame is limited. You wish to disenfranchise. Explain to me with cited sources how many illegal votes you are going to cage out and how many legit voters are you going to deny their right to vote.

How can you claim to be American and deny any legit voter their right to vote.

Innocent until proven guilty...so PROVE the numbers are there...

Oh, right, that was tried with a REPUBLICAN attorney - the guy famed for A few good Men..the Tom Cruise character...

He was pressured to go after voter fraud...when his investigations showed it was not a problem...and when he refused again WITH the information that it was not going to go anywhere...he was fired....but those Alberto Gonzales things are in the past, right....

The most egregious examples of voter fraud or illegality in recent years has not been in the form of people who were not legal to vote voting...but rather legal voters being denied their right as a citizen.

This was a big part of the politization scandal of the Justice Dept....that, if you were to care to read about the state of the Justice Dept...., has left the Justice Dept. in a very bad way....

But rant on....scream loud enough and people will believe you.... but scream too loud and you become a target...

[BoulderDawg]

You guys want a good laugh? Check this out. When I first saw it I thought it was a Onion article:

CINCINNATI - As Wall Street reeled and global markets plunged, President Bush on Monday said the U.S. economy is going to be "just fine" in the long run. But he cautioned that the massive rescue plan will take time to work.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Well GD!!!!!!! That just put my mine right at ease!

[bakxierboxer]

You're gonna have to go some to prove that, since the numbers say that roughly 20% more folks voted in 2004 than in 2000.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781450.html

[GLW]

so a LITTLE disenfranchisement is OK?

The GOP and neocon approach is a long haul thing..,.and it is targeted. The tactics described are used in specific areas.

Such as the one in either New Mexico or Arizona. It is in small steps. Prevent a few from registering. Knock off a few here and there with Choicepoint type removal lists (statistically, the Choicepoint removal of voters from Florida was over 90% WRONG - and they were used in other states since 2000), Then you do intimidation with following people out and asking them for proof - hmmm... If anyone but a cop asks me for my ID, they get told a very quick "F YOU" And if it is a cop, he better have a reason...or I will be asking for his badge number, precinct, etc.... all politely...he is, after all, armed.

But all the small things add up.

Now, the illegal voting has been the war cry of the right...and so far, the investigations into it has come to not much... and the Justice Dept. doing the investigation is under the control of the GOP...and has been for 8 years.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJWb2EbVpc0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eJ5zipl0fY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRfJtnfQDgg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRfJtnfQDgg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aBaX9GPSaQ&feature=related

[Mas Judt]

I'm still waiting for his supporters here to answer how he can create $800 billion in new spending and cut taxes on 95% of Americans. :rolleyes:

And notice MK won't take a sig bet on it either.

it must be some kind of new math, since about 15% of Americans do not currently pay tax.

[bakxierboxer]

it must be some kind of new math, since about 15% of Americans do not currently pay tax.

Are you sure that's not the number that files for and gets the "earned income tax credit"?
(aka "free money".... aka "refunds" of taxes they never paid in the first place)

[Reality_Check]

Considering they didn't repeal the CRA and institute new regulations on lenders, it very well may happen again. Just like the airline industry...:rolleyes:

Please stop bringing up the CRA as evidence of the problem. I have seen no evidence that this is the case. Actually, I've presented evidence to the contrary. Thank you.

[Reality_Check]

So he lied about that.

"Sen. Barack Obama's campaign Monday tried to draw a parallel between Sen. John McCain's involvement in the nearly 2-decade-old "Keating Five" scandal and the current economic crisis."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/06/campaign.wrap/index.html



So, John McCain's involvement with Charles Keating isn't fair game?

[bakxierboxer]

so a LITTLE disenfranchisement is OK?
........
But all the small things add up.

{snicker!}
It's gonna take one heckuva lotta "little disenfranchisements" to offset
20 EFFIN' MILLION MORE danged votes.


Now, the illegal voting has been the war cry of the right...and so far, the investigations into it has come to not much... and the Justice Dept. doing the investigation is under the control of the GOP...and has been for 8 years.

Could that be because any so-called "targeting" has roughly offset the
numbers of illegals voting? (it's actually not even close)
(chuckling while waiting for screeching/howling/apoplectic "reply")

[Mas Judt]

So, John McCain's involvement with Charles Keating isn't fair game?

oh, it's certainly fair game. Especially since it demonstrates the incredible capacity for lying for the sake of power among the demoncrats. He was exonerated and the DEMONCRATIC head of the commision apologized, saying he should not have been investigated like Demoncrats who were guilty.

It might also bring uyp the fact that John McCain fought for tougher oversight on the Fannie/Freddie mess - but the Demoncratic party fought hard to silence him and prevent any oversight.

NOW they tell us they are the ones we need to oversee things. HAH!

They need to be treated like the pariahs they are.

[Mas Judt]

The demoncrats are much more famous for fixing elections - heck even the New York Times - mouthpiece of the Demoncratic party declared Bush the winner in 2000- after launching their own investigation.

The left just can't imagine that we don't want to be their slaves.

Now if only we can retake the right and bring some liberty back to this mess...

[Reality_Check]

oh, it's certainly fair game. Especially since it demonstrates the incredible capacity for lying for the sake of power among the demoncrats. He was exonerated and the DEMONCRATIC head of the commision apologized, saying he should not have been investigated like Demoncrats who were guilty.

It might also bring uyp the fact that John McCain fought for tougher oversight on the Fannie/Freddie mess - but the Demoncratic party fought hard to silence him and prevent any oversight.

Cute with the "demoncratic" hit there. Very mature and really supportive of your position.

I don't recall ever reading that Howell Heflin apologized to John McCain. Could you please cite a source for that?

"The appearance of it was wrong. It's a wrong appearance when a group of senators appear in a meeting with a group of regulators, because it conveys the impression of undue and improper influence. And it was the wrong thing to do."

Regarding Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac:

"In both appearances, McCain was referring to his 2006 decision to sign on to a Republican-led regulatory overhaul of the mortgage-financing firms, which both went through multibillion-dollar accounting scandals earlier in the decade. The occasion that prompted McCain’s involvement was the release of a 340-page report from the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight that concluded that Fannie Mae had manipulated earnings and violated basic accounting principles. It describes an “arrogant and unethical corporate culture” in which executives were more concerned about their bonuses than meeting the company’s housing mission.

The findings, based on a 27-month investigation and resulting in a $400-million fine paid to the government, prompted McCain to join other critics and call for more scrutiny of Fannie and its sibling, Freddie Mac. “If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole,” McCain declared in a May 26, 2006, news release.

So it’s true that McCain spoke out — after a widely read report drew attention to chicanery at the firms. But the implication in McCain's remarks is that his remarks in 2006 were in some way a warning about the financial markets disaster that struck in 2008. That strikes us as quite a stretch."

The regulatory overhaul that John McCain signed on to was introduced a year earlier by Chuck Hagel. Where was John McCain then?

"We give McCain some credit for weighing in on problems surrounding Fannie Mae, even though he got involved after a comprehensive government report issued a loud alarm to anyone watching. However, his attempts to depict those efforts as some sort of early warning that could have lessened the current credit crisis just don't wash. All McCain was talking about then was the potential fallout of accounting troubles in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. He didn't say anything about a freewheeling climate among creditors that had major financial institutions becoming badly leveraged on bad loans. We rule his claim Barely True."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/sep/17/mccains-warning-fannie-and-freddie/

[Reality_Check]

The demoncrats are much more famous for fixing elections - heck even the New York Times - mouthpiece of the Demoncratic party declared Bush the winner in 2000- after launching their own investigation.

You mean like this?

"A six-month investigation by The New York Times of this chapter in the closest presidential election in modern American history shows that the Republican effort had a decided impact. Under intense pressure from the Republicans, Florida officials accepted hundreds of overseas absentee ballots that failed to comply with state laws.

In an analysis of the 2,490 ballots from Americans living abroad that were counted as legal votes after Election Day, The Times found 680 questionable votes. Although it is not known for whom the flawed ballots were cast, four out of five were accepted in counties carried by Mr. Bush, The Times found. Mr. Bush's final margin in the official total was 537 votes.

The flawed votes included ballots without postmarks, ballots postmarked after the election, ballots without witness signatures, ballots mailed from towns and cities within the United States and even ballots from voters who voted twice. All would have been disqualified had the state's election laws been strictly enforced."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9507e0d8133bf936a25754c0a9679c8b 63


The left just can't imagine that we don't want to be their slaves.

Really? The left wants to enslave you? I find that really hard to believe. Could you post some evidence for that?

[1bad65]

So, John McCain's involvement with Charles Keating isn't fair game?

Obama said he was gonna stick to the issues and not sling mud. Those were his words, not mine.

So, what else is he lying about on the campaign trail? :cool:

[1bad65]

Are these Republicans?


ACORN was sued on Friday [10/29/04] by two lawyers in Fort Lauderdale for disenfranchising 11 South Florida residents, one from Broward and 10 from Miami-Dade, by taking their completed voter registration forms and not turning them in.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/acornbackgro.html

[Reality_Check]

Obama said he was gonna stick to the issues and not sling mud. Those were his words, not mine.

So, what else is he lying about on the campaign trail? :cool:

I would argue that it is an issue. The last time we had a major banking/economic crisis in this country, John McCain was in the middle of it. On the wrong side. Now with the current crisis, and Senator McCain's arguably erratic behavior (fundamentals are strong, we're in a crisis, suspending his campaign, voting for bailout and then suggesting that President Bush should veto it, supporting deregulation and regulation at the same time) over the last two weeks, how he behaved in the past is relevant. Nor would it be a smear.

[BoulderDawg]

Obama said he was gonna stick to the issues and not sling mud. Those were his words, not mine.

So, what else is he lying about on the campaign trail? :cool:

Yep! Obama is a lying MFer!:D

Just like the rest of us!

[1bad65]

I would argue that it is an issue. The last time we had a major banking/economic crisis in this country, John McCain was in the middle of it.

McCain was cleared of any wrongdoing by a Democratic Congress.