Why there's so much MMA on KFO

[lkfmdc]

RD, you need some medication or something! Seriously, before you become the next Sifuable on youtube getting beat up by someone with little experience, which WILL happen if you decide to fight anyone with any real experience.



sage wisdom

[sanjuro_ronin]

Well, there you have it, Kung Fu sux and MMA rules all like a glorious angel with Heavenly music in the back ground lit by a mysterious eluminating light and God Like ass kicking powers.

What have we learned?

1. Kung Fu Sux

2 If you do happen to do Kung Fu, no matter what style, or how it is taught it willl only be effective after you cross trrain in some form of MMA.

3. MMA rulz all, and only those who cross train in officially accepted and sanctioned styles of BJJ, MT Boxing and a small minority of others willl ever be able to fight.

4 See lesson #1

Dude, seriously, this inferiority complex you have, get over it.

[bodhitree]

Well, there you have it, Kung Fu sux and MMA rules all like a glorious angel with Heavenly music in the back ground lit by a mysterious eluminating light and God Like ass kicking powers.

What have we learned?

1. Kung Fu Sux

2 If you do happen to do Kung Fu, no matter what style, or how it is taught it willl only be effective after you cross trrain in some form of MMA.

3. MMA rulz all, and only those who cross train in officially accepted and sanctioned styles of BJJ, MT Boxing and a small minority of others willl ever be able to fight.

4 See lesson #1

1. Sometimes yes, sometimes no, depends on the practitioner

2. If you do kung fu and suit up regularly to do full resistance sparring, no you don't have to cross train (to at least be effective in stand up).

3. See above, training method, if you fight more you will get better at, that's right, fighting

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

2. If you do kung fu and suit up regularly to do full resistance sparring, no you don't have to cross train (to at least be effective in stand up).

3. See above, training method, if you fight more you will get better at, that's right, fighting

Reply]
That does not work if you do Kung Fu though. It's already been established kung fu guys can only fight after cross training in BJJ, JJ MT and other popular MMA styles.

[1bad65]

RD, you need some medication or something! Seriously, before you become the next Sifuable on youtube getting beat up by someone with little experience, which WILL happen if you decide to fight anyone with any real experience.

I got a huge laugh out of this as well.

[SimonM]

Well, there you have it, Kung Fu sux and MMA rules all like a glorious angel with Heavenly music in the back ground lit by a mysterious eluminating light and God Like ass kicking powers.

What have we learned?

1. Kung Fu Sux

2 If you do happen to do Kung Fu, no matter what style, or how it is taught it willl only be effective after you cross trrain in some form of MMA.

3. MMA rulz all, and only those who cross train in officially accepted and sanctioned styles of BJJ, MT Boxing and a small minority of others willl ever be able to fight.

4 See lesson #1

5) RD should not be allowed to read on bulletin boards since the pretty pictures in his head keep infringing on reality.

[lkfmdc]

Muay Thai DOES have throws and sweeps, they just don't count for points.



it could be a thread on its own, but NO, Muay Thai does NOT allow sweeps or throws.....

[bodhitree]

2. If you do kung fu and suit up regularly to do full resistance sparring, no you don't have to cross train (to at least be effective in stand up).

3. See above, training method, if you fight more you will get better at, that's right, fighting

Reply]
That does not work if you do Kung Fu though. It's already been established kung fu guys can only fight after cross training in BJJ, JJ MT and other popular MMA styles.

WTF is wrong with your head? Seriously? Methanphetamine? Brain Injury? Missing meds? WTF

I think anyone will tell you, if you train hard and fight regularly, you will get better at it. Why are you so closed minded about cross training? Most athletes do it, visual artists do it (sketching to improve oil painting skills etc.), mutual fund managers do it (diversification), you are really closed minded.

WTF is wrong with your head?

[bodhitree]

it could be a thread on its own, but NO, Muay Thai does NOT allow sweeps or throws.....


Muay Thai did at one time, right? You know more about this than me, but I was under the impression that at one time....

[1bad65]

WTF is wrong with your head?

Speaking of things that would be a thread on it's own.... ;)

[1bad65]

I'm sure MT does not allow sweeps or throws.

The PKA style kickboxing popular in the 80s allowed sweeps, but they did not count as knockdowns. They were allowed just so fighters would have to defend them. However, if you got swept and were unable to continue it was counted as a TKO victory for your opponent.

[sanjuro_ronin]

it could be a thread on its own, but NO, Muay Thai does NOT allow sweeps or throws.....

Yes it does.
:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlpOCUq3nYo

[sanjuro_ronin]

More proof ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X1ZdX-Ut2c

[sanjuro_ronin]

On a serious note, the MT I competed in allowed throws of the clinch and sweeps.
I don't think the rules have changed that much, have they?
Of course this was in Montreal and we know those Quebecers are freaks !
LOL

[sanjuro_ronin]

Last time I fought MT, you could catch the leg and kick out the supporting leg, it didn't count as a knockdown, but it did earn points.

You definitely couldn't step through the legs for a full throw

So you can sweep.

[KC Elbows]

Is anyone arguing that muay thai fights incorporate as many throws at, on the average, an equal skill level at throwing as san shou?

If you want to work striking and throws, against as many people experienced at both as possible, which venue makes more sense?

[KC Elbows]

Not even close. Sanshou has way more throws, with very little restriction on technique.

The depth of S-R's hate now stands revealed.

I would call for a ban, but I need the links.

[Vankuen]

MT works takedowns from the clinch through kicking the lower legs, snapping of the upper torso and things of that nature. NOTHING is done over the hip and you can't sweep the ankles.

I would say to get better at throwing between Sanda and MT, that sanda would be a better way to go because you'll have more variety in the throwing methods. That's more of preference though. I can practice my gung fu shuia jiao throws, and my judo throws in the Sanshou format, whereas in MT only takedowns sourced from kicking out the foundation and jerking the upperbody.

[KC Elbows]

MT works takedowns from the clinch through kicking the lower legs, snapping of the upper torso and things of that nature. NOTHING is done over the hip and you can't sweep the ankles.

I would say to get better at throwing between Sanda and MT, that sanda would be a better way to go because you'll have more variety in the throwing methods. That's more of preference though. I can practive my gung fu throws, and my judo throws in the Sanshou format, whereas in MT only takedowns sourced from kicking out the foundation and jerking the upperbody.

I'd say this is more than preference. If you want to work as full a range of throws as possible, one of the two venues does that, the other doesn't. I'm not saying that for all things, one is better than the other, but, if the core argument on the thread is that working as many techniques as possible in a full contact venue that is not limited by style is of benefit, then, for someone wanting to work extensively on striking with throws, sanshou has the more open format, unless, of course, sanshou has a lot more restriction on the strikes, which I don't actually know.

[KC Elbows]

Huh?

Whos S-R, why does he hate, ban of who, and what links?:confused:

Sanjuro-Ronin, he hates kung fu with all his black heart, but he posts links to nearly naked women, and thus serves a valuable function.

[lkfmdc]

Yes it does.
:D



I can understand and appreciate your confusion, but you are incorrect. I have students competing under these rules all the time, I am very familiar with them.

I suggest, honestly, you read this thread

http://message.axkickboxing.com/index.phtml?action=dispthread&topic=9628&junk=1069791335.084

It has a guy certified in Thailand explaining a lot of the rules and sections of the rule books

[KC Elbows]

What did that have to do with my post?

I was really just kidding with S-R, he said the rules were functionally similar, you made the point that they weren't, now, having had to explain it all, you have killed all my joy. To regain my confidence, I can only hope for pics of the well tanned posteriors of beautiful women.

[KC Elbows]

Keep in mind that these are amateur rules, pros may allow elbows and knees.

IKF SAN SHOU TECHNIQUES

Legal Techniques;
Punches to the head and body.
Kicks to the head, body and legs.
Throws and takedowns.
In some bouts, when requested, knees may be approved and allowed.

Illegal Techniques;
Biting.
Head Butts.
Joint Attacks.
Elbow Strikes.
Holding and Hitting.
Open Hand Strikes.
Strikes to the Groin.
Strikes to the Knees.
Kicks or Punches to the Spine.
Throws that involve Joint Manipulation.
Kicks or Punches to the back of the Head.

IKF San Shou "GENERAL" Rules
Kicks are allowed to the inside and outside of the legs as well as the upper body.
Knee and elbow strikes are not allowed. (In some cases, knees may be allowed)
All types of Judo & Wrestling Throws are Legal In San Shou.
Fighters have 5 seconds after clinch to execute a takedown, throw or sweep or they are separated by the center referee.
The bout may take place on either a raised platform with no ropes or in a boxing ring with ropes.

From: http://www.ikfkickboxing.com/SanShouRules.htm


The exclusion of elbows is interesting. Thanks for the info.

[KC Elbows]

You have given me back the joy!

[sanjuro_ronin]

I can understand and appreciate your confusion, but you are incorrect. I have students competing under these rules all the time, I am very familiar with them.

I suggest, honestly, you read this thread

http://message.axkickboxing.com/index.phtml?action=dispthread&topic=9628&junk=1069791335.084

It has a guy certified in Thailand explaining a lot of the rules and sections of the rule books

I was only kidding, but thanks for the link, its understood now.
I think there can be a lot of "give" in regards to throws and sweeps from the clinch.
Depending on the ref it seems.

[Pork Chop]

lkfmdc
thanks for the tip on Altman.
I can't get to axkickboxing from work anymore because it sets off virus warnings.



Just to add one thing to what van kuen said; you're allowed to kick at the bottom leg to sweep it out, but not allowed to reap like they do in judo.

I've also seen rules in some events where you're not allowed to get the body clinch around the waist and force their back to arch.

Elbows have been making a comeback lately even in amateur muay thai; provided you wear the elbow covers. At one event here in Texas they were allowing knees to the head in amateur.

Muay thai rules have a slight edge for allowing the full range of strikes.
San Da rules have a huge edge for allowing the full range of throws.

[sanjuro_ronin]

My question still stands, do they where head and/or chest guards in Sanda or san Shou?

[lkfmdc]

I think there can be a lot of "give" in regards to throws and sweeps from the clinch.
Depending on the ref it seems.

Outside of Thailand, it seems less than 5% of the people really even undestand the rules... a lot of people doing Muay Thai were JKD people, now they are MMA people, etc...

I came in as an outsider who wanted my students to NOT break the ruels, so I sought out some accepted and respected officials to clarify things....

Strangely, now a San Da gym often knows the rules better than a lot of so called Muau Thai gyms :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Cheer Up!

http://filmgordon.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/vida-ass.jpg?w=385&h=405
http://filmgordon.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/coco-ass.jpg?w=300&h=406

I see your tanned and tantalizing and raise you:

[SimonM]

Anything is possible with a lousy enough ref. (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=867218&postcount=8)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Anything is possible with a lousy enough ref. (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=867218&postcount=8)

There is a youtube clip that shows on thai boxer throwing another to the ground and teeing off on his head with a kick, anyone remember that clip?

[Pork Chop]

Outside of Thailand, it seems less than 5% of the people really even undestand the rules... a lot of people doing Muay Thai were JKD people, now they are MMA people, etc...

I came in as an outsider who wanted my students to NOT break the ruels, so I sought out some accepted and respected officials to clarify things....

Strangely, now a San Da gym often knows the rules better than a lot of so called Muau Thai gyms :D

Muay thai judging system can seem really "wonky" so smart move on your part.
I think I've read that Ax thread before and had numerous discussions with Khun Kao about the scoring system.

There are 2 trainers at my gym from Thailand, with verified fight experience, so I pull off what I feel is comfortable and wait for them to yell at me. :D Went for a hip throw one time and coach is like "That's Chinese Sanshou don't do that!", immediately thought "I didn't tell you I did san shou"; still makes me smile. hehe

[sanjuro_ronin]

I call the tramp stamp, and go all in with

http://a964.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/5/l_1d4946d1c40ec0950c42d14cb4af37db.jpg

/\/\not safe for work, or general viewing, may cause nightmares.

dude....:eek:

[KC Elbows]

I call the tramp stamp, and go all in with

http://a964.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/5/l_1d4946d1c40ec0950c42d14cb4af37db.jpg

/\/\not safe for work, or general viewing, may cause nightmares.

The joy is gone again.

[SimonM]

Somebody page SR stat!

[Old Noob]

I call the tramp stamp, and go all in with

http://a964.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/5/l_1d4946d1c40ec0950c42d14cb4af37db.jpg

/\/\not safe for work, or general viewing, may cause nightmares.

My eyes are bleeding!:eek:

[sanjuro_ronin]

Cue Superman music !!

[MSphinx]

There is a youtube clip that shows on thai boxer throwing another to the ground and teeing off on his head with a kick, anyone remember that clip?

About a minute in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBiOxRzvS34

edit: I don't know what happened afterwards, but there's a 99% chance the guy would have been disqualified...

[sanjuro_ronin]

About a minute in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBiOxRzvS34

edit: I don't know what happened afterwards, but there's a 99% chance the guy would have been disqualified...

Yep, that's the one, of course, by HIS reaction, he thinks he's won !

[SIFU RON]

THE PRIDE OF AMERICA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpBvc2bxlj4

[David Jamieson]

THE PRIDE OF AMERICA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpBvc2bxlj4

not a bad fight overall, but the lead up time of 5 minutes of ringside chit chatting needs to be edited out. lol.

seriously, i had to scroll through all that for 5 minutes worth to get to the fight! lol :)