CLF Questions and Answers

[extrajoseph]

Hi Frank,

I just picked this up from your "Questions and Answers":

http://www.clfqna.zoomshare.com/

"Who was the first to use Hung Victory Hung Sing 洪 勝?
It was Cheung Hung Sing's name given to him from the Green Grass Monk and used as his schools first name before having to change it to Glorious Victory used by all of Cheung Hung Sing's disciples."

No one ever used these two characters 洪勝 together in the CLF branch names. Please check your Chinese characters and your CLF history before you post any more misleading information.

You have misquoted Howard Choy, "The three main branches of the system, namely, Hung Sing (Originally known as Great Sage Hung Sing, later changed to Heroic Victory Hung Sing), Hong Sing (Great Victory), and Buk Sing (Northern Victory, whose lineage can be traced to Tam Salm), feature slight variations in their techniques."

What he mentioned was either Great Sage Hung Sing 洪聖, or
Heroic Victory Hung Sing 雄勝, or
Great Victory Hung Sing 鴻勝, or
Buk Sing 北勝,
but no Hung Victory Hung Sing 洪勝!

Jeong was called Great Victory Hung Sing 鴻勝, never Hung Victory Hung Sing 洪勝. Back to the drawing board, Frank!

XJ

[hskwarrior]

joseph, you don't know ****! howard choy told me personally a long time ago in an email that jeung yim had to change his name cuz it was connected to gangsters. according to howard choy jeung yim asked chan heung what name he should use. so we have a confirmation here joseph from howard choy. jeung yim did not originally call his school glorious victory, it was originally hung mun victory. sorry chan fam joe, u are wrong again!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

joseph, you don't know ****! howard choy told me personally a long time ago in an email that jeung yim had to change his name cuz it was connected to gangsters. according to howard choy jeung yim asked chan heung what name he should use. so we have a confirmation here joseph from howard choy. jeung yim did not originally call his school glorious victory, it was originally hung mun victory. sorry chan fam joe, u are wrong again!

When was Cheung Yim born?
born in 1824 during the Ching Dynasty

So, he was 12 when Chan Heung had already created CLF. Okay...


Was Chan Heung Cheung Yim's only teacher?
A: No. Prior to 1836 Cheung Yim was a student of Lee Ga Master Lee Yau San, Chan Heung's second sifu. Then in 1836 about the same time or early than the official establising of the system, Chan Heung took in the 12 year old Cheung Hung Sing. Then in 1841 Cheung Hung Sing took the Green Grass Monk as his final sifu. This is where Cheung Hung Sing is said to have put the "FUT" in Choy Lee Fut.

So Cheung Yim studied with the Green Grass Monk LATER ON. He is Chan Heung's student none the less.

Why did Cheung Yim only study Choy Lee Fut under Chan Heung for 5 years?A:Well, if you think about it, Cheung Yim was never really an official student of Chan Heung. why? Because Cheung Yim copied Chan Heung's techniques, but later was secretly trained by him. Because back then, only those with the surname of Chan were allowed to learn Chan Heung's gung fu....hence all of Chan Heung's original students possessed the last name of Chan.
But when Cheung Yim revealed that he was being trained by Chan Heung by injuring his teachers senior disciples, the parents of the injured individuals complained to the village elders who gave Chan Heung an ear full on the village rules. So Chan Heung was forced to ask Cheung Yim to leave the King Mui village.

How do you put this 12 year old kid as a founder of CLF? So, he was a contributer to a future branch, so what?? So was Taam Saam, So what??

Why not just give him that credit?? What is the difference?? Do you think that it means that FUT SAN HUNG SING CLF is not as good as Chan Family? It's a matter of preference, right? If you like it, then it's good. Don't be so insecure....face facts Frank. You've already laid it out here....



Why all the hub-bub?

[extrajoseph]

"...howard choy told me personally a long time ago in an email..."

Show us the email then, Frank. If you have'nt got it now, then you can wite to Howard Choy again, I am sure he is still around somewhere in Australia if you Google search him. I only commented on what he wrote and what you have quoted.

You have showed us a name in Chinese characters that no one ever used in CLF, that shows how much you know about our history. All your so called "research" came from Futsan, you are just not equipped to do your own original work, because you do not have the language ability to do so. Sorry to be so blunt, but that is the fact as I see it.

[CLFNole]

If Jeong Yim was asking Chan Hueng what name he should use doesn't that look like a student asking a sifu? If he wasn't his student but rather an equal or co-founder couldn't he use whatever name he wanted?

[mokkori]

Come'on Franky, you can take these chumps! ;)

[extrajoseph]

Dear Mokkori,

There is no flame to fan here.

Despite Frank's pig-headedness, he is a great soldier of CLF just like all of us here. Without guys like him, we would never be what we are today.

History and tradition are what bound us together and arguing about their details made our jouney more interesting.

As long as Frank call himself a CLF man and throw those mean Kwa, Sow and Charp, he is my brother.

I am a little bit older than he is, so I can slap him around a little bit. :D He is a big man, so he can take it! Don't you worry. ;)

XJ

[Eddie]

Dear Mokkori,



Despite Frank's pig-headedness, he is a great soldier of CLF just like all of us here. Without guys like him, we would never be what we are today.
...

He is a big man, so he can take it! Don't you worry. ;)



:cool:

nicely put.

[Eric Olson]

Let's see if Howard Choy magically appears...he used to post on here as Wu Lung I think.

EO

[mokkori]

Not trying to fan any flames, but I did get you to say something nice about Frank! That makes it his turn I guess? Hey, I know the issue and I know the mutual respect despite of it. Sorry to make light of such a serious situation, Ill leave yous to it.

[hskwarrior]

Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut
History lesson 101


Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut was established officially in 1851 by Jeung Hung Sing, native of Sun Wui.

Q: When was Jeung Yim born?
A: 1824

Q: Did Jeung Yim learn anything prior to coming to Chan Heung?
A: Yes, Lee Yau San was in Sun Wui and was Jeung Yims first teacher prior to turning 12 years old.

Q: Was Jeung Yim the founder of his own gung fu by the age of 12?
A: NO. Jeung Yim went to chan heung when the latter officially established his Choy Lee Fut that was going to passed down strictly within the Chan Village in King Mui.

Q: Was CLF fully established by the time Jeung Yim went to Chan Heung?
A: No. CLF had just got launched and Jeung Yim was there in its initial stages of development and left after only 5 years. And Chan Heung spent the rest of his life developing his own system.

Q: What happened to Jeung Yim after those 5 years?
A: Jeung Yim was sent to the Green Grass Monk who completed his gung fu training.
Q: How old was Jeung Yim when he went to the Green Grass Monk?
A: 17 years old.

Q: Who was the Green Grass Monk?
A: The Green Grass Monk had many alias as was the custom of the times then. Especially when you were running from authorities. But, some of the names he was known by was Ng Ging, and Tsai-Te-Chung. Later he was part of the 2nd founding fathers of the Hung Mun Society. According to information stemming from Hung Ga and Some Southern Shaolin sources the Green Grass Monk was the head gung fu instructor at the temple in charge of 108 monks.

The Green Grass Monk was said to have studied from Monk Hang Yang, who lived at the Chung Lam Temple. In one story, the soldiers destroyed the Chung Lam Temple and thought Hang Yang was dead so they left him, but the Green Grass Monk happened to find Hang Yang alive under some rubble.

Q: When was the Hung Mun established?
A: Between 1767-1787
Q: Acoording to these dates, do you thing its possible Jeung Yim learned from the Green Grass Monk?
A: yes. According to our story, the Green Grass Monk was already and old old man when Jeung Yim finally located him.

Q: How long did Jeung Yim learn Fut Ga from the Green Grass Monk?
A: 8 years. (1841-1849)

Q: Green Grass Monk gave Jeung Yim a new name of Hung Sing, what did this name mean?
A: Its original meaning was Hung Mun Victory, but because it contained the Hung from Hung Mun he eventually had to change his name to avoid being arrested or killed by the cops or soldiers. He later used the Glorious Victory Hung Sing to cover up the old one.

Q: What happened to Jeung Yim when he completed his training under the Green Grass Monk?
A: The Green Grass Monk instructed him to go to Fut San, contact the Hung Mun there, and devote your school to training Hung Mun fighters.

Q: Was there a Chan Family school in Fut San then?
A: It seems there was a Chan Family Hung Xiong (Great Sage Hung) school there. But that person and Jeung Yim used completely different characters in their names. So, the blind guy could have been the first for Chan Heung, but Jeung Yim was the first to use Hung Victory/Glorious Victory in Fut San.

Q: When did Jeung Yim take over the Chan Family school in Fut San?
A: 1875, the year of Chan Heungs death.

Q: Xtrajoseph says that no one in CLF ever used the Hung Victory Hung Sing, so you must check your notes.
A: According to Chan Family CLF information, Chan Heungs son Koon Pak changed the name of his hung sing because his gung fu brothers (Lee Yan-Jeung Yims senior disiciple) were getting into a lot of trouble so he change his name to the one meaning Strong Victory. This is a little strange since Chan Heungs Hung Xiong didnt contain the word Victory in it, but his sons school did.

Jeung Yim had to change the name of his school to take off the heat he was receiving over it. He then changed the name to Glorious Victory. However, in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, a Hung Mun banquet was being held where Liu Bang was almost assassinated. In the story, the Hung typically used for the Hung Mun wasnt used this time. The one used was in fact the Hung meaning Glorious or Wild Goose. The same one Jeung Yim changed his Hung to.

My question is, if Chan Heungs own son, and Jeung Hung Sing had to change their names to avoid being killed by the Qing, what names were they using then if the Hung Victory wasnt being used then?

Q: Xtrajoseph wants you to produce an email that goes back over ten years, what do you think?
A: Of course he does. But I don=t t have to. In the early 1990's I contacted Howard Choy to ask him if he knew any information about the Green Grass Monk. He told me the Chan Family didnt have anything or know anything about the Green Grass Monk, that nothing was in their writing about him He then told me that Jeung Yim had to change his schools name because he was wanted by the police and needed to hide. So, according to Howard Choy, it was Chan Heung who told him to use the Glorious Victory Hung Sing.


Q: Does the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon deny that Chan Heung was his sifu?
A: No. As simple as that. But, was Chan Heung Jeung Yims most influential sifu? Did he complete Jeung Yims gung fu? Another simple answer. NO!
Q: Then who did complete Jeung Yims training?
A: The Green Grass Monk did. See, first Jeung Yim learned from Lee Yau San. In a sense, this makes Chan Heung and Jeung Yim classmates since they both learned from the same sifu. Jeung Yim was under Chan Heung in the birthing stages of Chan Heungs Choy Lee Fut. So in that sense, Chan Heung was the creator of Choy Lee Fut. But when Jeung Yim came back from the Green Grass Monk and shared with Chan Heung what he learned from his last teacher, a newer CLF had emerged.

Q: Joseph seems to think that noone used the Hung Victory name in Fut San. What do you think about this?
A: Well, if Joseph knew anything about the Hung Mun, hed know that most of the people in Fut San or southern China at that who supported the Hung Mun added the Hung to their names back then. The Green Grass Monk being heavily involved with the Hung Mun as he was, instructed Jeung Yim to use the Hung character with the word victory in it because the Green Grass Monk was Hung Mun!!!!!!!

Q: What revolutions was Jeung Yim and His Hung Sing Kwoon involved in?
A: Tai Ping Rebellion, the Second Opium War, Red Turban Revolt, and a few smaller ones. But the hsk was involved with every revolution up to the 1940's.

Q: What do you think Jeung Yims main purpose was?
A: Jeung Yim was so involved with the hung mun that I don=t t think he was that interested in promoting the system. He was too focused on staying alive, training the Hung Mun fighters and his own, and only interested in evolving his system to worry about spreading the style. They were at war, millions of people, including Hung Sing and CLF people died in the Tai Ping Rebellion. Many many CLF masters died then. What a shame.

Q: why do you say Jeung Yim was co-founder of CLF.
A: Well, according to many writings, even in Chinese, there is a theme that there was a 2nd coming of CLF, a restructuring, reshaping or whatever after mid 1850's if you will. Also, according to the history how it is universally passed down, Jeung Yim payed a visit to Chan Heung, thanked him, and shared what he learned with his former teacher.

Q: Does the Jeung Yim lineage believe Chan Heung was Jeung Yims teacher?
A: Yes, but he wasnt Jeung Yims only teacher. Lee Yau San was first, Chan Heung 2nd, and Monk Ching Cho last. If Chan Heung was Jeung Yims only teacher, we would excitingly admit that with no reservations.

Q: When Did Jeung Hung Sing Die?
A: He died in 1893 after falling ill and dying from something like Pneumonia at the age of 69/70.

Q: who was the successor?
A: Chan Ngau Sing.
Q: With people like Lui Chun, Lee Yan and Yuen Hai, why was Chan Ngau Sing chose as the successor?
A: Couldnt say exactly, but perhaps because Lui Chun, Lee Yan, and Yuen Hai all had their own Hung Sings going at the time long before CNS.. And since Jeung Yim just passed away, Chan Ngau Sing took over.

Q: Who were some of Chan Ngau Sings students?
A: Some of the more famous ones was Chui Cheung, Qian Wei Fang, Liangguihua, Wu Qin (who was Sun Yat Sens personal body guard) and many many more. In fact, the number of Chan Ngau Sings students reached over 10,000.


Joseph, I live in San Francisco. Have you been to SF? Theres lots of Chinese people here, who speak and read Chinese here. How lucky am I? So, my long time buddy, I got access to anything I need in regards to Chinese things. LOL. You have no idea!!!!!!!!!
In fact, I hope to be inserting a photo I will be allowed to take at the Hung Mun Ghee Kung Tong Supreme Lodge of the Hung Mun alter, which has the first 5 ancestors on it, then the second 5 ancestors which includes Tsai-Te-Chung, who we believe is the Green Grass Monk.

Including this link of the Head of the Hung Mun, (its on the net, so don=t t trip) but behind him is this alter im referring to.

here...Click Here (http://www.sfweekly.com/photoGallery/index.php?id=648991&p=1)

[extrajoseph]

Frank,

The character for Hung as in Hung Mun was never used at the same time with Sing (Victory) in any of the CLf branch names. If you diagree, please show me some evidence to support your claim.

This Hung character as in Hung Mun was used by the Ancestral King Mui School as the Great Sage Hung Sing. Once this character Hung as in Hung Mun was used by King Mui, no other branch will use it again. All the three Hung characters are written in a different way, to differentiate the three schools from each other.

I have been to your city and there are a lot of Chinese there, but unless they are familiar with CLF history, they would have no ideas of what we are talking about.

The stuff you wrote up about Jeung Yim came from Futsan Hung Sing Gwoon, they made these things up after they got going in March 1998 (i.e. formally registered), so if you can find any material before the 1990s to say the same thing as you mentioed, then I will take another serious look, otherwise they are just fabricated stories without any supporting evidence.

Jeung Yim never studied with Lee Yau-Shan and the GGM was a made up character. Jeung Yim was a devoted disciple of Chan Heung and followed him all his life. You tried to change history by saying Futsan and King Mu CLF are different because they do their forms differently, that don't comput with me. Every branch do their forms differently, but they all came down through Chan Heung.

The age difference between Chan Heung and Jeung Yim was too great for Jeung to have co-founded CLF and there is no evidence that Jeung Yim's CLF is different to Chan Heung, they are just stylistic differences with the same core principles.

History is not about what you believed in, history is not a faith, it is a branch of knowledge, so if you want to change history, then you have to do some pretty hard study and research to convince us.

XJ

[extrajoseph]

Frank,

Here is what the Chinese in China and not SF think of Chan Heung and Jeung Yim.

1) Type in the characters for Chan Heung in the Google search and you will get pages about Chan Heung being the founder of CLF:

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=%E9%99%88%E4%BA%AB&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

2) Type in the characters for Jeung Yim in the Google search and you hardly get any thing on him or CLF:

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=%E5%BC%A0+%E7%82%8E&hl=en&start=0&sa=N

3) Type in the characters for Futsan Hung Sing Gwoon and you will get a page from the People's Government of Guangdong Province to say Jeung Yim was a disciple of Chan Heung:

http://www.gd.gov.cn/gdgk/gdms/stzz/200709/t20070924_20967.htm

4) In the government website for Overseas Chinese Affairs of Guandong, you can read about King Mui being the birthplace of CLF:

http://www.gd.gov.cn/gdgk/gdms/stzz/200709/t20070924_20967.htm

If Jeung Yim co-found CLF, the Chinese government would have heard about that, wouldn't they?

XJ

[seisei]

ej.
good or bad you sound just like frank are you the same person with a split personality?
m

[hskwarrior]

joseph, where did the gov. get any info on chan heung? was it from the chan family? if so, u show me yours ill show u mine okay? lol.....you'll take a look. who are u again joseph that i have to show u anything? instead of shooting it down, do something productive n show me something other than chan fam based.

[hskwarrior]

joseph....what are the age differences that you say are too great btween chan heung? 2) who told you no one used the hung mun hung? was it some chan fam person, or writing? 3) ggm was hung mun, he told jeung yim to go to fut san n join the hung mun. was jeung yim out there promoting clf or was he out there fighting in the revolution for the hung mun? 4) why should a fut san hsk student believe a chan fam person about our history?

[hskwarrior]

joseph, when u n i meet in person i will show u my evidence. ......1) what evidence do u have that clearly says jeung yim never called his school "hung victory" 2) whats your evidence to prove the ggm is a myth? 3) where your proof jeung yim never learned from lys?

[Yao Sing]

Unfortunately, since it's impossible to prove a negative, the proof is going to fall on you. It's like proving you didn't run through the streets naked on your birthday.

Prove Santa Claus doesn't exist. Can't be done.

[Yao Sing]

At this point with an agreed upon history, regardless of the source or political motivation, it will require hard evidence before anyone would be willing to make changes.

So until evidence surfaces the history stands as is even though you don't trust where the info came from.

[hskwarrior]

joseph, u always seem to point out things about jeung yims legacy...why do u ignore the same things aboutyour lineage! there's an issue chan heungs birth date..is it 1815 or 1805? do u think chan fam clf was upset that jeung yim took over theblind guys school, and changed the name from great sage hung to hung/glorious victory? was chan heung in the hun mun? didn't his students encourage him to join the fight but he declined because it was against his buddhist beliefs? oh, and now choy fook is the green grass monk. one of li iu lings writers feels ggm was hung mun's Fong Dai Hung, but feels jeung yim was never a student of ggm. go figure! oh, jeung yim was a latter disciple of chan heung (1867) but jeung yim opened in 1851. so jo, you have as much holes as we do. what now?

[extrajoseph]

Frank,

Lets get back to the main point of our disagreement and that is your attempt to change history by saying Jeung Yim co-founded CLF and we disagree, so it is up to you to prove it. If you think he learned from LYS as well as the GGM, then show us some evidence.

All the other stuff are just red herrings you throw at us to to side track the main issue.

There is no need to prove Chan Heung is the sole founder of CLF because it is an accepted historical fact and it is recorded in the country history book (Yuan Shi), issued by the government.

So the ball is in your court, otherwise stop making up your own history. It is not something that you believed in and it becomes true.

XJ

[Eric Olson]

Unfortunately, since it's impossible to prove a negative, the proof is going to fall on you.

He could come up with evidence that would disprove the Chan Family version. But what evidence does Chan Family have that proves their version? I don't think anyone has any hard evidence either way and so this conversation (which is the same one that peeps have been having since 2001) is purely political as no one has any evidence either way that isn't tainted by some political motivation (and when I say political I don't mean Barack and Billary.);)

EO

[extrajoseph]

joseph, where did the gov. get any info on chan heung? was it from the chan family? if so, u show me yours ill show u mine okay? lol.....you'll take a look. who are u again joseph that i have to show u anything? instead of shooting it down, do something productive n show me something other than chan fam based.

The government of any sort generally get their information from the people, then they checked it with their historians before putting them on record. China is well-known for her ecord takings by the authorities.

[Eric Olson]

2001 called....it wants its thread back:

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1672&highlight=green+grass+monk

[extrajoseph]

He could come up with evidence that would disprove the Chan Family version. But what evidence does Chan Family have that proves their version? I don't think anyone has any hard evidence either way and so this conversation (which is the same one that peeps have been having since 1999) is purely political as no one has any evidence either way that isn't tainted by some political motivation (and when I say political I don't mean Barack and Billary.);)

EO

There is a text book for the sports and wushu historians called "The History of Guangong Martial Arts" and it gave the governemnt version of what is considered to be accurate and true as far as primary sources are concerned. In the book, Chan Heung is acknowledged as the sole founder of CLF. What would be the Chinese government's political motivation, if there is one?

The answer is none. IIt is just a fact Chan Heung is the founder of CLF.

[Eric Olson]

There is a text book for the sports and wushu historians called "The History of Guangong Martial Arts" and it gave the governemnt version of what is considered to be accurate and true as far as primary sources are concerned. In the book, Chan Heung is acknowledged as the sole founder of CLF. What would be the Chinese government's political motivation, if there is one?

The answer is none. IIt is just a fact Chan Heung is the founder of CLF.

And governments aren't political?

EO

[extrajoseph]

Where is the politics in this one? Why would it be more advantageous for the present Chinese government to back Chan Heung as the founder and not Jeung Yim?

[lkfmdc]

And governments aren't political?

EO

Sure, sometimes they are. But the obvious question (or challenge) would be to state what the agenda/angel is.

Here is an example of government bias in martial arts history. Lama Pai is descended from a "non chinese"/"non han" part of what is now China and from non Han ethnicities mostly. OK, making matters worse, it is associated with XiZhang (Tibet). So when the government issued a history of southern styles they "re wrote" the history of Lama and made Dat Mo in Shaolin teh founder. No, I joke you not!

WHY? Obvious. To make Lama "Chinese", to link it to "Shaolin" (to booster that tourist trap!), to link it to the "gung ren" who are "han", etc etc

But in the case of CLF, what political agenda is served by saying one Han chinese of correct social class founded it over another Han Chinese of correct social class??

[dragon323]

Hello:

Some question for hskwarriors;

GM Yuen Hai born around 1821 ?
GM Jeong Yim born 1824 ?
GM Yuen Hai meet GM Jeong Yim around 1840, when he turned 18 and GM Jeong Yim 16 ?
But in this time GM Jeong Yim aren´t GM Chan Heung student ?
If GM Lau Bun born in 1891 and first learnt Hung Gar, how old was GM Lau Bun when meet GM Yuen Hai ? 15, 16, 20.... and then How old was GM Yuen Hai 85, 86, 90...

Source dates; websites from hskwarriors

[hskwarrior]

actually that was from some of my early writing while we were figuring out the dates. yuen hai was a senior student who started at about the age of 18 according to ggm jew leong. i based that writing on the 10 year gap idea. but i was incorrect about yuen hai's supposed birth date. never got around to correcting it since im working on my book.

[dragon323]

Hello

When was GM Yuen Hai born ?

Regards

[hskwarrior]

Dragon323,

let me be clear for you.

when i started writing our history, we learned that there was a ten year gap. Fut San had accused the Chan Family of altering the dates of Chan Heung's birth. There are other sites out there that says Chan Heung was born in 1815, and even a Li Iu Ling historical information page places Chan Heung's birthdate in 1815 and not in 1805.

So, when Fut San had said that the dates were altered to make Chan Heung look older, it was MY idea to push back Jeung Yim's birthday to 1814. But I later changed it to the accepted 1824.

Yuen Hai was GGM Jew Leong's sigung, and how Lau Bun passed it down to him, Yuen Hai was most likely from Vietnam because his last name was pronounce like Nguyen (win). He came to Fut San in Fut San's early stages. Now as we discovered the Hung Sing Kwoon opened in 1851, I obviously have to change my old writing. So from 18 years old until his death, he was a student of Jeung Hung Sing.

Lau Bun learned Hung Gar as a young boy. DFW may have more info, so would my sigung, but my sigung is a man of very few words. Lau Bun learned from Yuen Hai while the latter was in his old age. Even Lun Chee met the elder Yuen Hai during the Japanese war.

But we were never told actually how old Yuen Hai was, or his exact birthdate since that has been lost to time. there are NO records to prove wrong or right. Yes, the birth and death is more along the lines of guesstimation.

But what we do know, and has been confirmed by many hung sings around the world, Yuen Hai was one of the top 3 seinior students.

The only issue here is that i based my infor on the idea that Jeung Hung Sing was born in 1814 and not 1824. hence the 10 year gap.

[extrajoseph]

Frank,

There is a lot of info on Yuan Hai (and Jeung Yim as well) in this webpage. Get someone to translate for you and you may even find out where your lineage really came from and it is not Futsan if Yuan Hai was GGM Jew Leong's sigung.

http://www.chens.org.cn/shownews.asp?newsid=468

It is amazing how you just made things up and expect people to believe them!

XJ

[seisei]

is this more hate towards hung sing people ,AGAIN ? OR are really trying to help and not control.If it's trying to brake us again,Give it a break. if its helpful thank you

[CLFNole]

seisei, why don't you at least read what he linked and give us your opinion.

[hskwarrior]

for one, since it stems from chan fam.....Im not interested in it unless fut san says its true. w hen did this info come out joseph? and remember, just like in clf there are two tong seks, there are two yuen hai's. i ll read it tomorrow.

[hskwarrior]

i find it hilarious that u make me out as the bad guy here bro jo.....u seem to think i just made up our history. but what doesn't kill me joseph only make me stronger. so bring it on!

[seisei]

clf nole,

sorry to sound negative,but in the short time i've been enjoying this forum,I'm not used to this type of mentality,he just wants to be a jerk and saying ha-ha i know more than you.i'm sending you ths note cause sifu frank seems to think you are an ok person. lay you odds. that the clown is trying to clown again .personally i think sifu frank should stay awy from anything the chans say or do,but he enjoys debating i guess

[CLFNole]

All I said was since you are chinese , read what the link says and give us your opinion of what it says. If you believe it or not, it doesn't matter, I and probably others who don't read chinese would like to know what it says. I can ask my wife but she will yell at me for being "on that stupid kung fu thing".

Previously you started a post asking about my lineage, which I happily answered, so "quid pro quo".

[seisei]

understood

[extrajoseph]

Not to be biased, here is Futsan's version in English:

http://www.hongshengguan.com/indexe.htm

It says Chan Heung (1805-1875) sent Jeung Yim to study with the GGM and then Jeung came back to share with Chan so now Jeung is the Father of CLF while Chan was the Originator of CLF. No mention Jeung studied with LYS at all.

Bur the title did say, "The LEGEND of Jeung Hung Sing", and not the history.

[extrajoseph]

Can you imagine Frank goes to study in Futsan, comes back to SF and share his knowledge with his old Sifu Dino and then became the Father of American Hung Sing!

[Yao Sing]

Giving him ideas now, that can't be good. :D

[htowndragon]

When Chen Xiang Gong heard of Zhang Yan’s achievement, he regarded him as friend. Zhang Hongsheng attributed his triumph to Chen’s instruction. He showed great respect to Chen Xiang Gong during their daily association. In return for Chen Xiang’s previous help and training, he taught Chen Xiang what he had learned from “Qingcao”. Afterwards, they studied those skills and techniques and created many more new actions. They were inspired in their training for wushu and exercised systematically, focusing on different plus their respective innovation.

Because their kungfu was all derived from Shaolin, integrating the three styles advantages, in memory of Cai Yafu, Li Youshan and Qingcao monk, they named it “Cai-Li-Fo”. And Zhang Hongsheng was worshipped as the father of “Cai-Li-Fo”. “Cai-Li-Fo” was such formally founded and became a vital genre of Southern China, spreading throughout the region.



^ sounds like it was some co-founding to me...

[CLFNole]

I can read english too, that is not what needed to be translated.

[Yao Sing]

It's a really tough call as I see it. I think there was agreement that he made a significant contribution to CLF but it seems that technically CLF existed, even if not in a completed form, before he returned from training with Green Grass Monk.

Seems to me that unless Chan Heung recognized him as a co-founder it's a gray area that could be argued either way. I think the top ranking players in all branches will need to get together and go over all the available documentation and evidence and make a determination that most are comfortable with although that sounds impossible at this point in time.

[T. Cunningham]

It's a really tough call as I see it. I think there was agreement that he made a significant contribution to CLF but it seems that technically CLF existed, even if not in a completed form, before he returned from training with Green Grass Monk.

Seems to me that unless Chan Heung recognized him as a co-founder it's a gray area that could be argued either way. I think the top ranking players in all branches will need to get together and go over all the available documentation and evidence and make a determination that most are comfortable with although that sounds impossible at this point in time.


Thing is, the top players aren't the ones arguing over lineage....

[Terrygrey]

Dragon323,

, it was MY idea to push back Jeung Yim's birthday to 1814. But I later changed it to the accepted 1824.

Yuen Hai was GGM Jew Leong's sigung, and how Lau Bun passed it down to him, Yuen Hai was most likely from Vietnam because his last name was pronounce like Nguyen (win). He came to Fut San in Fut San's early stages. Now as we discovered the Hung Sing Kwoon opened in 1851, I obviously have to change my old writing. So from 18 years old until his death, he was a student of Jeung Hung Sing.


But we were never told actually how old Yuen Hai was, or his exact birthdate since that has been lost to time. there are NO records to prove wrong or right. Yes, the birth and death is more along the lines of guesstimation.

But what we do know, and has been confirmed by many hung sings around the world, Yuen Hai was one of the top 3 seinior students.

The only issue here is that i based my infor on the idea that Jeung Hung Sing was born in 1814 and not 1824. hence the 10 year gap.

Classic. The date inconsistencies has been pointed out years ago. Flankey couldn't get his dates right and kept changing the details, yet he just kept going "prove me wrong, prove me wrong". Now we see him admiting he just made things up, and then expects it to be take fact, and if you disagree, he expects you to prove him wrong with evidence, and if an opinion is "confirmed" by few more hung sing opinions then its confirmed fact? Flankey needs to take a crash course in debate and research skills.
And no, flankey. I'm not your one arm bandit friend. And put it this way, I think I have more ideas about who/they kenny is or are than you, so no need to try and make wild accusations, especially no need to ge a flankin tart tui to jump in lol.

[Terrygrey]

Another thing is flankey needs to to some research on Lee Gar. Does he even know what the system was like? Does he even know the system still exists and who else Lee Yau San taught?

One futsan guys says lee yau san and the flankin puppets jump up and down.

No flankey, I'm not about to tell you all about Lee Gar. Go do your own research, if you can.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I nominate Sifu Frank as the Step-Father of the Lower-North American West Coast Chan Hung Buk Sing Choy Lay Fut Ga Association Society.

All hail Sifu Frank! Anyone who can just make up dates and rewrite history deserves to be a benevolent Monarch in my book!!

Just funnin' Sifu Franky-boy! Don't be offended...you know how passionate I am!

[Eric Olson]

Sure, sometimes they are. But the obvious question (or challenge) would be to state what the agenda/angel is.

Here is an example of government bias in martial arts history. Lama Pai is descended from a "non chinese"/"non han" part of what is now China and from non Han ethnicities mostly. OK, making matters worse, it is associated with XiZhang (Tibet). So when the government issued a history of southern styles they "re wrote" the history of Lama and made Dat Mo in Shaolin teh founder. No, I joke you not!

WHY? Obvious. To make Lama "Chinese", to link it to "Shaolin" (to booster that tourist trap!), to link it to the "gung ren" who are "han", etc etc

That is interesting.


But in the case of CLF, what political agenda is served by saying one Han chinese of correct social class founded it over another Han Chinese of correct social class??

I'm not sure what the agenda might be but I think these are the kinds of questions that people should be asking, rather than taking it on faith that the government historians are independent observers.

Cheers

EO

[hskwarrior]

what? htowndragon confirms that it says what ive always said....and no one is speaking about what htown said it said! lol!

[extrajoseph]

Thing is, the top players aren't the ones arguing over lineage....

Not true, Todd. Some of our elders and top players are behind this; they have old scores to settle dating back to the Commuist v Nationalist struggle.

[extrajoseph]

That is interesting.

I'm not sure what the agenda might be but I think these are the kinds of questions that people should be asking, rather than taking it on faith that the government historians are independent observers.

Cheers

EO

The agenda in this case is not political but personal, from individuals who want to take financial advantage of the popularity of CLF, coupled with some old personal scores to settle.

[hskwarrior]

mikey boy! i gotcha fatha right here buddy boy! mr funny man!

[hskwarrior]

cts folks got the clear and green cloud issue, dfw got the choy fook ggm issue, i listed a wrong date sooooo whaaaaat!

[extrajoseph]

cts folks got the clear and green cloud issue, dfw got the choy fook ggm issue, i listed a wrong date sooooo whaaaaat!

So what? So just admit your mistake and don't turn the mistake into a faith. No big deal.

"This is what we believe in, therefore it must be right", is not the way to handle a mistake.

PS. I am referring to your claim that Jeung Yim founded CLF with Chan Heung. You took this information from Futsan without questioning their motive nor their accuracy. This a simple mistake you can admit, instead of trying to turn it into an article of faith. Many human atrocities in this world are done in the same way.

Not having Jeung Yim as the co-founder does not diminish his worth, nor the glory of your lineage, you have to remember that, Bro.

[yutyeesam]

EJ -
I have a question. I'm curious to know how exactly Futsan HSK can profit from saying that Jeong Yim is the CLF co-founder with Chan Heung?

Is it that big of an issue that it affects their tourism commerce? Will it make that big of a difference on people coming to train with them?

I do not know the politics of the commerce for this, so I'm just curious to know, what's really in it for them to make this up? From an outside perspective, it doesn't seem like much. So, I don't immediately see any motive for Futsan HSK to make false claims.

Not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand the context behind it all.

-123

[Lama Pai Sifu]

cts folks got the clear and green cloud issue, dfw got the choy fook ggm issue, i listed a wrong date sooooo whaaaaat!

HA HA HA

How can you compare an obvious misreading of a chinese character to a historical event?

HA HA HA, Clear Cloud.....lol. I see what you were going for there.....OMG! That was so funny, and topical too! And they both have Green....monk, temple....LOL!

Okay Frank, all kidding aside, allow to point this out;

You didn't list a wrong date, you intentionally changed a date so that your story would make better sense. Your credibility as an honest historian is ZERO. You are willing to change facts to fit into the story that YOU want to tell. That is where the problem is here and why no one trusts what you say.

If you have changed facts already, admittedly, then why should anyone believe you?

Don't you recognize the problem with that?

And then, you try to deflect with bad humor in the middle of a serious conversation. When you are unable to win the argument, you switch gears, change the topic or make a joke.

Or you ad an 'ly' or something to someone's name or create a new nickname for them. It's very childish and everyone can see it plainly.

You don't seem like a dumb guy - why not stick to reasonable conversation and keep an open mind? You might make some friends in the process, as opposed to people who 'tolerate' you at best. You'd have a better audience for your efforts if you listed to people as well.

Just a word of advice, take it or leave it.

(I'm sure you will retaliate as a result of this post, however I'm not being mean or sarcastic, just straight-up. I thought you would be able to appreciate that).

[Lama Pai Sifu]

EJ -
I have a question. I'm curious to know how exactly Futsan HSK can profit from saying that Jeong Yim is the CLF co-founder with Chan Heung?

Is it that big of an issue that it affects their tourism commerce? Will it make that big of a difference on people coming to train with them?

I do not know the politics of the commerce for this, so I'm just curious to know, what's really in it for them to make this up? From an outside perspective, it doesn't seem like much. So, I don't immediately see any motive for Futsan HSK to make false claims.

Not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand the context behind it all.

-123

If you know Chinese people at all, especially Chinese Gung-Fu people, you would realize that the $$$ is not more important than 'face'.

Chinese will lose money if it means saving face.

But, as it is with religion, medicine and many other things, if you can't sit at the top of the mountain because it's already occupied, you either find another mountain to sit on or your build another one.

Not saying Fut San made anything up, I'm just saying that there is always motive.

[yutyeesam]

If you know Chinese people at all, especially Chinese Gung-Fu people, you would realize that the $$$ is not more important than 'face'.

Chinese will lose money if it means saving face.

But, as it is with religion, medicine and many other things, if you can't sit at the top of the mountain because it's already occupied, you either find another mountain to sit on or your build another one.

Not saying Fut San made anything up, I'm just saying that there is always motive.

Interesting, thank you for the explanation. Who publicly cast the first stone? Whoever did could say a lot.

[hskwarrior]

uhhhh, okay mikey toops! lol. i'll let you tell it! lol.......mikey toops!

[hskwarrior]

mikey, you aren't choy lee fut! n you have no clf teacher.......lol!

[dragon323]

Hello

hskwarriors; You admit that your information is wrong and that your sources are not correct in this point but do not modify your web pages. That is not good.

What are your sources? Internet ou records?
On page Hungsing.com say:

Jeong Yim born in 1814 and founded school in futsan in 1839, but also say;
Jeong Yim born in 1824 and founded school in futsan in 1851.

That is true and that is a lie? according to your

Perhaps the oral transmission of your school said something different before the trip he made to futsan in 2000 and now says something else?


Maybe Jimmy Ming Leong not received the oral transmission of history by GM Lau Bun and why there are so many changes in your site?

Why the GM Jeong Yim what happened one of his last students and more young people (GM Chan Ngau Sing) and not one of his first muchisimos students?, this is something that your attribute GM Doc Fai Wong, and you say isn´t posible.

There are many more questions, which will make you
Thanks for answering.

Regards.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

mikey, you aren't choy lee fut! n you have no clf teacher.......lol!

Well, that is true, my teacher has passed away. Didn't you already know that??

Wow, are you laughing that my teacher is dead? Wow, you are quite a guy....

And are you trying to say that either I don't know CLF or my teacher didn't know CLF??? HA HA HA!

Oh yeah, and check the generations....I'm waaaayyyy higher up on the food-chain than you are shifu fa-ranky...so respect your elders! LOL, and go fetch me my shoes while your at it boy! See ya in the park you tubby *****...LOL

What, you think you're the only one who can make fun of people on here??? Sorry buddy, it's not an exclusive club to you; however, most of the people on this thread treat each other with respect; but it seems like all you know is how to be disrespectful and NOT listen to anyone else. The only thing that gets your actual attention is insults...

You are truly a sad person, I do feel sorry for you though. And that's why I'll let you take me to tea when I'm in Frisco.

[hskwarrior]

mike, for someone has no real clf to speak of, you really are a straight up ****head! at the timei wrote that **** no real reseach into our history was done or available in the usa. figuring out the dates was all part of the process of learning the truth. so whati wrote something and listed the wrong date. i dont care what you think. u aren't even clf to me, nor to any other clf person here. u are lama pai. stick to what you know, cus u don't know **** about clf. lol.....you.....a lama guy thinks he can single handely benefit the clf system!!!! omg thats so funny!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

thinks he can single handely benefit the clf system!!!! omg thats so funny!

What on earth does that mean?? LOL

You are bizarre....ha ha ha

[yutyeesam]

ANYWAYZZZ...

Who publicly cast the first stone on this whole debate? Whoever did could say a lot.

-123

[Brule]

It's sad to see that there is so much knowledge on these boards as we can see the amount of information on this thread alone, that people cannot discuss in an adult fashion. But i guess CMA will never get away from this. It's all about who's got the oldest most badest traditional unaltered form that's got the goods. It seems to be all about history and who's version is the right version. If this continues, how far will this art grow? How can you guys continue to separate yourselves from each other and still manage to grow the art? Without progression, how can one improve?

From the videos i've seen on youtube, there are people trying to do what they can to spread their art. I can think of some clips of Lama Pai Sifu and those of Sifu Chen Yong Fa, who do not seem to hold a political agenda in thier videos but have put them there for us to see what CLF is all about.

You can have the baddest form out there that is 100% unaltered, practised the same way it has been since day one, but if you come a callin and i ram my charp choy so far down your throat that i can give you a rectal exam, what good is that form gonna do ya !!!

Of course, this just from someone on the outside lookin in.......

[CLFNole]

I don't understand why Lama isn't clf? Just because his sifu might have been more well known for lama pai if he knew CLF he knew CLF. It doesn't make sense not to recognize someone as clf if in fact they learned clf.

On another note I don't think anyone has forms that are completely original. To think a form has stayed exactly the same for nearly 200 years let alone 10-20 years is just insane.

[cjurakpt]

mikey, you aren't choy lee fut! n you have no clf teacher.......lol!

I guess that, by extension, no one else who studied w/CTS "has" any CLF either...

[lkfmdc]

mikey, you aren't choy lee fut! n you have no clf teacher.......lol!

Frank, you are an asshat and continue to prove it on a daily basis

Chan Tai San has several CLF lineages, but let's just talk about two

CTS - Jyu Chyuhn - Chan Goon Pak - Chan Heung

CTS - Chan Sai Mo - Chan Siu Hung - Chan Heung

IE, VERY LEGIT

Stop talking out of your arse, you make a fool of yourself daily here. I can only thank G'd you aren't in my lineage, I'd be embarassed by you and your antics

[lkfmdc]

mike, for someone has no real clf to speak of, you really are a straight up ****head!


Frank, you're a moron, and demonstate it daily, don't you realize how bad you make yourself look?

CTS didn't know CLF? LMFAO

CTS would have taken one look at you and how you perform, and DIED OF LAUGHTER

Should we post again the stick incident?
Or, better yet, your excuses that went on for PAGES

What is your lineage again? How FAR are you from Lau Bun? Dude, wake up and smell the po-lei, we are MILES ahead of you lineage wise. so wipe your nose and your arse, comb your hair and show some respect

IDIOT

[lkfmdc]

I don't understand why Lama isn't clf? Just because his sifu might have been more well known for lama pai if he knew CLF he knew CLF. It doesn't make sense not to recognize someone as clf if in fact they learned clf.



Just look at the lineages I just posted, those aren't CLF lineages? :rolleyes:

Frank, as usual, is adept at sticking his foot in his mouth, and demonstrating his own massive insecurities and inferiority complex.

[sanjuro_ronin]

LOL @ Lineages !

I can understand debating genetics, but lineages ??

Now, these are some good genes:

[CLFNole]

I agree but also saying someone's lineage is "miles" apart from another goes right back to what a lot of us are trying to stop, it is a bit of "my dad can beat up your dad", no?

We all know lineage doesn't really mean all that much besides from where you came from.

[lkfmdc]

I agree but also saying someone's lineage is "miles" apart from another goes right back to what a lot of us are trying to stop, it is a bit of "my dad can beat up your dad", no?

We all know lineage doesn't really mean all that much besides from where you came from.

OK, then let's put it another way

"in this corner is Chan Tai San, famous in China, studied with top teachers, coach of Guangdong team, coach of Futsan special forces, named living legend, fighter, master, bad arse"

and

"in this corner, Frank" :rolleyes:

[CLFNole]

Well since you put it that way...

By the way "coach of Futsan special forces", I didn't realize individual cities had their own special forces units. Obviously we are not taking Rambo and machine guns.

[lkfmdc]

Well since you put it that way...


Exactly :rolleyes:


By the way "coach of Futsan special forces", I didn't realize individual cities had their own special forces units. Obviously we are not taking Rambo and machine guns.


Actually, it is probably my own "linguistic quirk" from the way it is written on sifu's card

The Chinese military had a special forces unit that was stationed and trained in Futsan, I actually doubt it was exclusively Futsan residents, IE more like Annapolis has a naval academy, but most of the naval graduates aren't from the local area

[CLFNole]

I kind of thought that was what you meant, but reading it at first sounding kind of funny. Made me think of each little city having its own special ops group back in the day. Assassination by rope dart :eek:

[cjurakpt]

seems like CTS bashing is en vogue everywhere today...

I can tell you that GM Chan Tai Shan never talked about, taught or demonstrated anything as concerned usage of his gung fu in fighting that resembled the sort of "internal skills" that you seem to be talking about ("live / dead", "sticking", etc.)
Well that shows how much he knows about kung fu and doesn't suprise me at all given his (over)holistic MA background.

and

of course, you can say that CTS had no idea of what real gung fu was if you like...
Well, the fact that he does not emphasis Liveness, Sensitivity, Sticking and their relation to combat, does raise my eyebrows a little.
Maybe he is teaching you "gringos" on a need to know basis, just like many other chinese masters are doing as we speak and have done for decades.

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=861563&postcount=79


was there some kind of sale at Penny's on "cheap shots at deceased Grandmasters" I hadn't heard about?

[Yao Sing]

On the issue of what is there to gain from modifying the history it seems a lot of tourism dollars could be at stake if you could get all the foreign CLF peeps to go to the Futsan Hung Sing school instead of King Mui.

Now about Frank, some of you guys have been here since he was yik-wa-tik or whateveer it was and he was threatening to kill everyone. He has improved a lot since those days and even though he still has some quirks I think he's heading in the right direction.

Troy has been getting some grief even though his comments are in line with the common belief. He admit Chan Heung founded CLF and says Jeong Yim founded the Hung Sing branch of CLF. No problem.

And Frank is admitting his early mistake about the years so if he would just update the website to reflect his current belief everything should be fine. I know it doesn't take long for him to add new pictures etc. so changing text can be done by the time everyone gets done reading this.

That ok Frank?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

mike, for someone has no real clf to speak of,

??? What are you even talking about?? Like you know what I know??? I trained quite a bit of CLF under my teacher. You've got a lot of nerve, you pudgy little *****...LOL

Don't try to discredit me with your fat mouth full of false truths and fat lies..and hot dogs. You just keep swinging your powerless arms in the air like a good little fat boy. Go play in the park with your friends and let the big people talk...

Oh wait, just like you always say when you insult someone Franklin, no offense, you all know how passionate I am about my art! Hung for life, I'm a HS Warrior, a Gangsta from the hood, watch out cause I'm keeping it real and my Gung-Fu is better than everyone else's! Yay!!!!

****ing asshat wannabesomebodyimportant...

Its so tiring, listening to people like you.

[sanjuro_ronin]

seems like CTS bashing is en vogue everywhere today...




and




http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=861563&postcount=79


was there some kind of sale at Penny's on "cheap shots at deceased Grandmasters" I hadn't heard about?

Dude, He's an idiot, that is a given.

[hskwarrior]

yadda yadda yadda yadda!!!!!!

Mike you're a blow hard!!!!! You're a freakin nut. You attack and throw blows. But when someone throws them right back you freak the phuck out. LMAO!!! whats wrong with you? are you insecure?

I've been called fat before mikey toops. I could care less. blah blah blah.....i find it funny though.

the rest of your clan is falling on deaf ears. Yeah they can jump to your aid talk sheet to me. But i'm one man, you and your cronies can't touch me. LMAO!!!!!

talk is cheap mikey toops. talk is cheap.

you disappoint me though. you can throw blows, but are a marshmellow when someone strikes back. well, you should have known.....i'm hung sing.......thats how we do things!

[hskwarrior]

i ain't attacking your teacher. never said one thing about your teacher.

i said YOU ain't Choy Lee Fut. you are ALL lama. you move lama, not Choy Lee Fut. yet you think im the only one who thinks so. right? LOL

My sifu taught me right, although i have my opinions on CTS, I have never once aired them.

All my dislike is towards you mikey. everything about you is foul.

but i won't go into that.

I'm not responding to any others here because my issue is with you and only you.

[lkfmdc]

yadda yadda yadda yadda!!!!!!



That is indeed the quality of most of your posts Frank



are you insecure?



"projection" - go look it up Frank




talk is cheap.



Indeed, it doesn't seem you can afford much more

Nice ducking the entire issue, IE that you are an idiot who talks about things he has no idea about

Stick to trying to explain away the inconsistencies of your history, at leat that is amusing

[lkfmdc]

although i have my opinions on CTS, I have never once aired them.



Oh go ahead Frank, please do open your mouth YET AGAIN and prove to the world once again what an idiot you are....

Please DO make this "in this corner CTS and in the other corner Frank" because darn it, that WILL be amusing, short, but amusing

The way Mike moves? Well at least he MOVES, what you do requires a different adjective

[hskwarrior]

now, to the rest of you chumps!

Until my sifu and I started researching the Hung Sing history, no other information about our lineage was known until we started digging, asking our high up elders, such as lun chee and my sigung, and other Hung Sing masters around the world.

just as it was when Chan Yiu Chi decided to document their families gung fu history, it too was once passed down word of mouth.

For what ever the reasons, our people never chose to write it down. But their memories were good enough to shed some light into our history.

Yes, in my earliest research (which i haven't updated because the new updated stuff was going into my book) i purposefully listed an incorrect date out of spite for the Chan Family in hopes i'd uncover more information.

For people like dragon 323, or anyone else for that matter, my only fault is that I didn't update my information as my research progressed. yes some of my early writing don't match what I write today. Thats because I learned new things that told me where I had fix them. I just never got back to updating my old or early research.

People are jumping down my throat for a simple incorrect date when people like dfw writes a book explaining a whole list of reasons why the GGM didn't exist, only to turn around and claim he's actually Choy Fook. The Li Iu Ling lineage writes their history on Chan Heung and places him being born in 1815 and not 1805. Chan Koon Paks lineage seems to think Chan Heung passed away in 1888.
Chan family was incorrect when placing Jeung Yim first in 1867 when he was clearly in Fut San operating in 1851. The Li Iu Ling lineage believes Jeung Yim didn't learn from the Green Grass Monk, but feels that the Green Grass Monk is Fong Dai Hung. OMG LOL.

With all this Bull**** going on thats on a grander scale than me not updating my information is just what i said. Bullsheet! But, of course, who else better than to try and clown but Frank......yeah you thought you could!!!!!!

None of you are perfect......none of you. But i know some of you think you are part of some elite race of people......LMAO at that too!!!!!!

And Mikey, what do you think you really know about me and what i do here in SF? Do you know who i know, hang out with, associate with, or anything? how do you know i'm not anything you claim im not? because YOU said so?

Shows you how stupid you really are. Take a look at my lineage..........if you knew then you'd know. But you don't say. LOL!

[hskwarrior]

Everyone.....

lets do the hokey pokey!!!!!!!

you put your left foot in, your put your left foot out......you put your left foot in and get the phuck knocked out!

lets do the hokey pokey!

[hskwarrior]

hey mike,

pudgy wudgy, must be!

hahahahahahahahaha:D

[Lama Pai Sifu]

yadda yadda yadda yadda!!!!!!

Mike you're a blow hard!!!!! You're a freakin nut. You attack and throw blows. But when someone throws them right back you freak the phuck out. LMAO!!! whats wrong with you? are you insecure?

Again, your attempt to redirect the conversation. I'm not the one who cries "Oh, I fell off a building and I was crippled..blah blah blah, every time someone critiques your videos...

I've been called fat before mikey toops. I could care less. blah blah blah.....i find it funny though.

I'm sure you find it funny though...

the rest of your clan is falling on deaf ears. Yeah they can jump to your aid talk sheet to me. But i'm one man, you and your cronies can't touch me. LMAO!!!!!


Cronies?? Hardly. My classmates happen to be accomplished and have achieved much in the personal and professional lives. While you on the other hand,...

talk is cheap mikey toops. talk is cheap.

No you imbecile, talking is free, not cheap. You are a regular walking 'dime-store' cliche.

you disappoint me though. you can throw blows, but are a marshmellow when someone strikes back. well, you should have known.....i'm hung sing.......thats how we do things!

I dissapoint you? Well, I'm sure you are used to much dissapointment in your life by now, an extremely out of shape guy, who teaches (or tries to) people how to do something that requires physical fitness? No wonder you teach in a park and your cell phone is off every other month...

The sad fact is Franky, YOU NEVER PEAKED! You have been a loud-mouthed fat-ass your whole life! You've been kicked out of your own school so many times, you are an embarrassment to anyone who does CLF.

Your a self admitted liar about history, changing things to suit your own warped and twisted agenda, you disrespect every other CLF person on here, you're crass, obnoxious and rude. Plus, you are a ****-poor excuse for a martial artist, forget a teacher, you're a pitiful martial artists.

Others are nice to you here, only because they are more patient than I am fat-boy! I don't need to take your fat mouth or listen to your fat lies or even fatter insults.

So wipe that chicken fat off your hands and put down the donut and think of another funny Frank response...because it's all for fun, right fatty?

Oh, and YOU ARE NOT HUNG SING, YOU PRACTICE HUNG SING. WHAT YOU ARE...IS AN ABOMINATION.

Oh yeah, 'peace', just funnin' witcha' fatboy!

[hskwarrior]

hey mike,

since you want to attack again and again......

let's talk about your wearing a tupe'.........is that how its spelled?
Is that why you are all bald now? was maintaing the rug getting a little too much for you?

pdgy, fat, idiot, all that.....i'll be all that n more if you like.

But I know i come from a real CLF family, with a REAL CLF history, and REAL CLF FIGHTERS.........a long line of them.

I could care less about your bull mike. you can say anything you like, clown as hard as you like, or what ever. The truth of the matter is if we were to meet, we would know who has real clf or not. then you'd be able to see if i got any real power or not.

[lkfmdc]

So, let's review

Despite the ENTIRE WORLD recognizes Chan Heung as the founder of CLF, Frank does not

According to Frank, a 12 year old kid created the art he did, which just happens to look like Chan Heung's art and which happens to use Chan Heung's name?

:rolleyes:

Along the way, Frank has constantly shifted the dates to try and keep the story afloat, and when confronted with facts just reverts to "there was no history before"

YOU GIANT IDIOT, of course there was history before, it was just in CHINESE. Maybe if you weren't 20,000 miles removed from the original source you'd have learned some Chinese and been able to learn some of the tradition :rolleyes:

Frank, you are the worst kind of wannabe. Going on about how "gangster" you are and trying to ride Lau Bun's coat tails even when you are 3 generations removed form Lau Bun

You open your big mouth and spew bull**** constantly on here, your ranting about CTS is just the latest, though it may very well be the funniest

NEWSFLASH FRANK! You aren't Lau Bun and the fact that Lau Bun was the first US CLF school doesn't mean a G'd ****ed thing... other than he got a boat before someone else

It means even less about you, your school in the park and your pathetic attempts to legitmize yourself

[hskwarrior]

hey mr. mike toops,

how much you wanna bet that in the CLF world, my names holds more weight than yours does?:rolleyes:

You are a typical loser.

Oh, didn't your wife cheat on you? oh, was that too personal? Im sorry?

hahaha....now watcha blow up.

and yeah i teach in the park, and my phone is off for a day or two, never longer than that, and i change my number alot to avoid people like you trying to call me.

but guess what? the park is free, and when you run out of students, and can't pay your rent, I'll still be teaching at the park......free of rent. you will fade away faster than i would mikey boy.

your east coast style of BS is amusing to this cali boy!

[hskwarrior]

again, Chan Heung is the founder of Chan Family CLF. Buk Sing and Hung Sing do not practice Chan Family CLF. SO Chan Heung would not be OUR founder would he?

Jeung Yim is called the Co-founder because when he came back to Chan Heung, his new material changed CLF as it once was. Since there was TWO CLF's existing at the same time, Jeung Yim is called the Co-founder.

Did I make that up? NO! ask joseph! He knows i didn't.

[hskwarrior]

really? going on about how gangster i am?

What did I say i did? What Gangs have i told you i'm from, or was from? who am i connected to know?

Guess what.........real gangsters don't talk about what they do because of fools like you who run and tell. I never called my self a gangster.

Pls tell me, post it, show me, or just shut the phuck up, but do something about it. show me where i claimed to be a gangster!!!!!!

do it now biatch!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

now, to the rest of you chumps!


Yes, in my earliest research (which i haven't updated because the new updated stuff was going into my book) i purposefully listed an incorrect date out of spite for the Chan Family in hopes i'd uncover more information.

None of you are perfect......none of you. But i know some of you think you are part of some elite race of people......LMAO at that too!!!!!!

And Mikey, what do you think you really know about me and what i do here in SF? Do you know who i know, hang out with, associate with, or anything? how do you know i'm not anything you claim im not? because YOU said so?

Shows you how stupid you really are. Take a look at my lineage..........if you knew then you'd know. But you don't say. LOL!


Oh My Lord! These are the rantings of an insane person.

This one is the funnies by far : i purposefully listed an incorrect date out of spite for the Chan Family in hopes i'd uncover more information

Yeah, so you just decided that big ol' Franky was just gonna 'Smoke 'Em Out' and get to the bottom of all this Chan Heung stuff. You were gonna use some 'phy-col-ogy' on 'em by lying.... Riiiight

Holy ****, that's rich. Where do you even keep the balls big enough to say such a thing?? Do you ever read what you write before you press "SUBMIT REPLY"?

This one is good too....what the hell does it even mean?? What's wrong with your brain????
Take a look at my lineage..........if you knew then you'd know. But you don't say. LOL!

I see Franky-Fats, rubbing his hands together and doing his best mad scientist impression..yelling, "Mad I tell you! They are Mad!" and then saying;
None of you are perfect......none of you. But i know some of you think you are part of some elite race of people......LMAO at that too!!!!!!

Frank, you are a sad, pathetic loser. Just look yourself in the mirror and face facts. This forum is all you have. That and that work of fiction you are always talking about. I hope you publish your book. I'll buy it and use it to wipe my ass. That'll be about what it's worth.

[lkfmdc]

how much you wanna bet that in the CLF world, my names holds more weight than yours does?:rolleyes:



I see that Frank is now on drugs :rolleyes:

Frank, you are NO ONE. Never were anyone, never will be anyone. You are a joke. I went to San Francisco almost every year in the 1990's and spent time with all the sifu there... you were no where to be found.

You don't even have a school, you teach a few misfits in the park.

Your posts REEK of your desperation for recognition and insecurity. You want to be special, not just some loser who fell off a roof, never achieved anything and can't even afford to keep his cell phone on....

Again Frank, you try and ride Lau Bun's coat tails. First of all, YOU ARE NOT LAU BUN. You aren't even his student!

Second of all, even if Lau Bun had 10,000 great students and fighters, we all know you are not one of them

[hskwarrior]

hey ross,


According to Frank, a 12 year old kid created the art he did, which just happens to look like Chan Heung's art and which happens to use Chan Heung's name?

pls show me where i ever said a 12 year old boy created any art? Nothing about Fut San Hung Sing CLF is the same about Chan Family. everything about chan family clf is totally different in every way aside from basic punches.

your ranting about CTS is just the latest, though it may very well be the funniest

my rantings? which ones?

and my class in the park gets so much attention from every part of the world. tourists are always stopping by to take pictures with us.
so your words mean nothing. like always. just hot air.

[hskwarrior]

Frank, you are NO ONE. Never were anyone, never will be anyone. You are a joke. I went to San Francisco almost every year in the 1990's and spent time with all the sifu there... you were no where to be found.

really? thats not what i've been hearing. and from what my Statcounter says who looks for me.

you know its funny, you say im no one, but every part of the world searches for Hung Sing Frank. I sheet you not!

so again,

your bs falls on deaf ears.

[lkfmdc]

my class in the park gets so much attention from every part of the world. tourists are always stopping by to take pictures with us.



I'm sure tourists see you and say

"dear lord, who is that incredibly fat man with the head the size of a peanut trying to teach children martial arts? Oh my G'd that is so funny, I just have to take a picture!"

Frank, you don't realize how f-in retarded you sound, do you? Only idiots and retarded people try to hold up the fact they have no money, no job and no education as badges of honor....

[hskwarrior]

Second of all, even if Lau Bun had 10,000 great students and fighters, we all know you are not one of them


oh yeah? how would you know? have we fought? how do you know? did someone tell you?

LMAO.....ross keep reaching.

in the words of MR T.........i gotta lotta mo! lotta mo!

[hskwarrior]

I'm sure tourists see you and say

"dear lord, who is that incredibly fat man with the head the size of a peanut trying to teach children martial arts? Oh my G'd that is so funny, I just have to take a picture!"

Frank, you don't realize how f-in retarded you sound, do you? Only idiots and retarded people try to hold up the fact they have no money, no job and no education as badges of honor....

is dat right? and tell me. we are supposed to believe what you say cause of what?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

hey mr. mike toops,

how much you wanna bet that in the CLF world, my names holds more weight than yours does?:rolleyes:



Well, all I can tell you is that YOU weigh more than me...and probably a few of my friends....lol!

you're name??

HA HA HA. You're PICTURE was removed from the FUT SAN HUNG SING SCHOOL...what about that....fatty!!!!!! It used to be next to Dino S's pic, BUT NO MORE!

HHHHMMMMM, you seem to be getting lighter.....

And when I asked why (because I saw it there in 2006)....they laughed and laughed. Wanna know what they said?? Opps...I forget...they don't speak english and you don't speak cantonese, so you wouldn't understand anyway....

turns out they don't put pictures up of loudmouthed troublemakers....go figure.

[hskwarrior]

who said i don't work, have no money, or no badges of honor?

i got a badge once in the boy scouts.......lmao....im lying.........that was with your sister!

[hskwarrior]

hey mike,

You are truly a sad person, I do feel sorry for you though. And that's why I'll let you take me to tea when I'm in Frisco.

when you're in frisco.........sure....i'll take you to tea.........come on thru.

oh and im not sad, im having my fun with you and laughing about it.

[hskwarrior]

mike,

i can lose weight. you can never grow your hair back.

i think i'm in a better position than you right now.

[lkfmdc]

really? thats not what i've been hearing. and from what my Statcounter says who looks for me.

you know its funny, you say im no one, but every part of the world searches for Hung Sing Frank. I sheet you not!



LMFAO at anyone who thinks that a counter on their piece of crap free "zoom" web page is an indication that they are a respected part of the Mo Lum

Like I said, you are a pathetically desperate person, grasping at straws.

Does every part of the world also seach for "Fat Funny Frank"? :rolleyes:

[Lama Pai Sifu]

What, you have a name?? LOL

You are a student of a guy who trained with a guy who trained with Lau Bun. What does that make you?

What does you're 'name' do for you?

Do you get free meals? (Well, actually, I wouldn't be surprised...it sure looks like you do....ZING!)
Do you go to the front of the line at all the swanky clubs or on rides at the amusement park?
Do you get invited to movie premiers?
Do you get swag?

So what does your name mean?? What does it do for you, Mr. CLF Bigshot?
You are a little boy in a fat body, with dreams, or should I say delusions of fame and success.

You see, YOU make YOU-who you are. No one else. Fact is, your teacher and his teachers could have been martial geniuses and they very well might have been....but kung-fu doesn't get transmitted by name, it requires discipline (of which we all know you do not have) and skill (I merely have to look at youtube). It doesn't matter what Lau Bun did, in respect to YOUR skill. YOU are YOU. Why don't YOU accomplish something...? Forget everyone else, YOU are the person on the chopping block here.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

mike,

i can lose weight. you can never grow your hair back.

i think i'm in a better position than you right now.

Maybe so, but you are still ugly.... HA HA HA

What position would that be? The one where you haven't seen your **** since 1989?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

It's funny though. Not having hair doesn't seem to effect my martial arts, nor is it indicitive to my level of self discipline.

Uh..but you're fatness on the other hand....hhhmmmm.

I think you are very cute that you mention things like my hair (or lack of it, lol) and you try to talk about my ex-wife (yes, who did cheat on me) like those things have to do with Kung-Fu or martial arts. When you are backed into a corner, we all know you have to dig deep to throw personal attacks at people, because you can't contend with the real issues.

This a martial arts forum, in case you forgot.

[hskwarrior]

ross, have u looked at yourself? u r a little strange looking. why is that?

[hskwarrior]

mike, do u realize your bald head resembles a peenis? all u gotta do is grow a little mohawk. excepts peenises wouldnt have as many lumps like your head!

[lkfmdc]

The true sign someone has nothing to offer is when they try and throw out personal insults....

More pathetic is when they can't even do it successfully :rolleyes:

Frank, anNyone ever suggested to you that you might have a learning disability? You can't follow a logical train of conversation, can't defend your points intelligently and ramble on about irrelevant crap

Again, you are NO ONE. The fact your teacher's teacher studied with Lau Bun won't get you anywhere. It is meaningless. What counts is YOU. And what have we there?

You have a fat, broke, out of shape, emotionally stunted person who can't pay his cell phone bills and tries to teach out of a park

Dear lord man, your "claim to fame" is that people visit your web page, how pathetic is that? :rolleyes:

I can't say I am at all surprised to find out they booted you out of the school, your are an embarassment.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Wow. That's all I have to say, wow.

[lkfmdc]

do u realize your bald head resembles a peenis?



considering you haven't seen yours since 1989, my only conclusion must be that you are spending a lot of time in Castro :rolleyes:

[hskwarrior]

mikey, ur funny. maybe your wife cheated cus she couldn't find yours either!......but, wasi the one who attacked first? nah, that would be u. so get over yourself.

[lkfmdc]

The true sign someone has nothing to offer is when they try and throw out personal insults....

More pathetic is when they can't even do it successfully :rolleyes:

Frank, anNyone ever suggested to you that you might have a learning disability? You can't follow a logical train of conversation, can't defend your points intelligently and ramble on about irrelevant crap

Again, you are NO ONE. The fact your teacher's teacher studied with Lau Bun won't get you anywhere. It is meaningless. What counts is YOU. And what have we there?

You have a fat, broke, out of shape, emotionally stunted person who can't pay his cell phone bills and tries to teach out of a park

Dear lord man, your "claim to fame" is that people visit your web page, how pathetic is that? :rolleyes:

I can't say I am at all surprised to find out they booted you out of the school, your are an embarassment.

I also think you should be BANNED for these posts

[Yao Sing]

OMG where to start. Well I tried to head this off before it really blew up and even said some nice stuff about Frank which makes me look like a fool now.

if you knew then you'd know.

Now this is the most insightful comment I've ever seen. So true, so true. If you knew then you'd know. Can't argue with logic like that. :D

again, Chan Heung is the founder of Chan Family CLF. Buk Sing and Hung Sing do not practice Chan Family CLF. SO Chan Heung would not be OUR founder would he?

Actually, no. And everyone has been trying to explain that to you but you're either too stubborn or too stupid to understand. You see, before a style can branch it has to already exist. In this case there are 3 branches of the style created by Chan Heung. There is Buk Sing CLF, Hung Sing CLF and what you call Chan Family CLF. Notice anything common about the three?

If you said all are CLF then you're correct.

Jeung Yim is called the Co-founder because when he came back to Chan Heung, his new material changed CLF as it once was. Since there was TWO CLF's existing at the same time, Jeung Yim is called the Co-founder.

No, only you call Jeung Yim the co-founder. Can you specify what the new material was that changed CLF so profoundly?

So 2 schools of CLF equals to CLFs? How many CLFs are there now?

you know its funny, you say im no one, but every part of the world searches for Hung Sing Frank.

I'm sure Jeffrey Dahmer gets a lot of searches too or Charles Manson. That doesn't mean it's a good thing.

I say continue your research, organize it and show what you have with complete documentation and people will take you serious and either accept it or show you where you're wrong. Think you can handle it?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Actually, yes. You were the first one to say something..

You're silly comment about me not being CLF and not having a CLF sifu..remember?

Now what do you have to say for yourself??

And I don't know why you think I am upset or freaking out....you are a whimsical distraction today, nothing more nothing less. Normally, I don't even comment on what you write, I leave that up to the rest of your non-fans.

There is nothing for me to be upset about. You are an idiot, and I have known that for some time, so there are no surprises for me here. It's true, I do feel a bit sorry for you from time to time, but that is all.

You see, idiots don't know that they are idiots. But I acknowledge that there is a place in this world for everyone, both scholars and idiots alike.

Be well Frank, I've got to be going.

[hskwarrior]

are you two seriously mentally disabled? u have been personaly attacking me first. s o why when u receive a hung sing kwa sow chop u fall apart and claim foul? what? u cant take any or your own medicine? you spoiled biacth ass rich kids! lol....hung sing!

[hskwarrior]

actually mike, u started ragging on me long before u got kwa sow chopped! dont fake funk. see ya!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

are you two seriously mentally disabled? u have been personaly attacking me first. s o why when u receive a hung sing kwa sow chop u fall apart and claim foul? what? u cant take any or your own medicine? you spoiled biacth ass rich kids! lol....hung sing!

We received a hung sing kwa sow chop? Hmmm when would that have been?

OH..you are naming your insults now?? Is that how it's done in your school? Those are Hung Sing insults??

I see. Do your elders know how you throw your school's name around in a demeaning way (to others)? Do they know how you disgrace them with your verbal diarrhea?

And who's falling apart?? No one is claiming foul, try to say anything you want about my personal life...I could care less.

Rich kids?? Pffsstt, I wish. And everyone thinks Ross grew up rich??? Hardly,..his parents lived in an old apartment in forest hills, he didn't have a car until he was in his mid 20's (and it wasn't anything to speak of) and his school is not a palace. Where do you get this from??

Where's your pic in the Hung Sing School.....Mr. Hung Sing Frank????
How's your status in your own school....Mr. Hung Sing Frank????

Why is your picture down? Why are you kicked out of your school,...yet again???

You see, THESE are not personal issues, they are pertinent issues. They have to do with your martial arts and your character.

Dude, you are nothing but a hack. You can't do....so you try to write....LOL

[Yao Sing]

Do your elders know how you throw your school's name around in a demeaning way (to others)? Do they know how you disgrace them with your verbal diarrhea?
<clip>
Why are you kicked out of your school,...yet again???

Actually his Sifu is in Futsan and doesn't speak or read English so I doubt he has any clue about all this.

Now his previous Sifu is a different story.

[kup choi]

I couldn't agree more, from what I've seen of Franks posts he is a disgrace to his elders. To think that he actually teachers CLF is scary :o

Lama Pai sifu, love the clips on youtube, good work.

[cjurakpt]

you spoiled biacth ass rich kids! lol....hung sing!
I have known Mike and Dave for almost 20 years; neither of then grew up as "rich" kids: Dave grew up decidedly middle class, and has been paying his own way since we got out of college; Mike actually voluntarily walked away from a not insignificant "family fortune" based on personal principles; both have experienced not insignificant personal/family tragedy in their lives, but you wouldn't know it because they don't feel the need to justify themselves based on past obstacles they have overcome; bottom line is that everything they have they have worked for themselves, and that is a fact, because I know exactly how much each had in their pockets back ~1990 (let's just put it this way - I was the one doing the driving...hey Mike - remember how you taught me to jump the solenoid w/2 screw drivers because my car never started when it rained, LOL?); it is to both their credit that they have established and maintained schools that are successful without compromising the material that they teach

Dave is a trained researcher and has done much original research on the history of CTS's Lama; Mike, without formal training, has taken it upon himself to go to the source to obtain information about the history of our teacher's CLF well beyond what anyone else has done in our "group"; both have learned enough Chinese to be functional in that context; neither has ever personalized what they have learned and used it irresponsibly;

Dave and Mike continue to re-invent themselves as businessmen and as martial artists; neither is so engrossed in their own self-image that they feel threatened when they are exposed to new and improved information; they adapt to changing environments, whereas you look in the rear-view mirror and think you are watching the road up ahead;

I am proud to call them my brothers and appreciate that they still encourage me to participate in CTS-related activities, despite my having gone my own way more than 15 years ago;

I've had lost of experience with guys like you Frank - you play the street card when talking to the scholars and act the scholar on the streets; unfortunately, your lack of training in any sort of critical thinking leaves you ill equipped to converse on par with people who are actually educated and who participate in reasoned and structured discourse on a regular basis; even when Yao Sing offers you a more than reasonable way of correcting your previous errors you don't even respond

face it Frank: your self-identity is so tied into being Hung Sing that you can't afford psychologically to even consider the possibility that it's anything less than what you necessarily have to believe it is in order to have some sort of stability in your life; that inherently makes you a bad researcher, because your results will be skewed by emotional preference (e.g. - misrepresenting information to "smoke out" other people); and then you use the fact that you have passion (translation: unresolved anger issues) as the get out of jail free card whenever you write something in the heat of the moment

what's most unfortunate is that, if you were at least willing to understand and address your own short comings, you would probably make a great contribution to the body of CLF knowledge; meaning that, instead of all the bluster about how you are so authentically street, you might realize that to be a good researcher it helps to actually get trained in how to do it systematically and relatively objectively and use your MA as a springboard to improve yourself educationally - but that would mean you couldn't fall back on the whole "I'm so down" safety net;

and BTW, please, do illuminate us w/you perspective on CTS - that would be interesting...

[hskwarrior]

kicked out of my school? picture down? im in many pics on my sifu's website. n here's how retarded and stupid u are.......my sifu calls me everyday, n sees me bout 2-3 days a week. i was with him when we protested cnn here in sf recently. i was with him in our charity drive for the hung mun ghee gung tong. so, wrong. u failed! miserably!

[hskwarrior]

hahaha....mike. u shouldn't speak without knowing what u are talking about. i was with sifu today and everyother day. so now what? and to kup choi.......whatever!

[Yao Sing]

Maybe you could explain the Bai Si to the guy in Futsan? Or am I mistaken?

[Yao Sing]

Frank's Bai Si. (http://www.hshlk.zoomshare.com/album/Sifu%20Frank%27s%20Pictures/images/f7e8c3e347eda0cef01bc37c70f09518_11878429260/:album?css=http://www.hshlk.zoomshare.com/lib/style/helvetica.css&css=http://www.hshlk.zoomshare.com/lib/style/type_album.css&css=http://www.hshlk.zoomshare.com/files/custom.css)

The caption says "Sifu Frank Taking Sifu Lok as his new sifu"

[hskwarrior]

man some people are sooooo long winded, while others seek to attack to draw attention away from your own insecurities. disgrace or no disgrave ya'll know who i am! lol......oh and what can't i do again mike?

[lkfmdc]

are you two seriously mentally disabled?



Frank calling anyone mentally disabled? Oh the irony :rolleyes:

People keep saying I am rich? Wow, I have to find that money, must be around here somewhere?

Or it's just the classic paranoid ramblings of someone who has nothing and can't accept personal responsibilities for their own failures.

[lkfmdc]

Actually his Sifu is in Futsan and doesn't speak or read English so I doubt he has any clue about all this.

Now his previous Sifu is a different story.

Well, Mike just was in Futsan and reports that the picture got taken down, so I guess that makes TWO sifu who have disowned Frank :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

disgrace or no disgrave ya'll know who i am! lol......



yes, we all know who you are, you are the clown who tries to ride Lau Bun's coat tails and makes a fool of himself daily, IE a disgrace to his lineage

:rolleyes:

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Yes, and his picture has been taken down from the Fut San Hung Sing Choy Lay Fut Gwoon.

And if he was so "somebody", why wouldn't he be up here??? Here is where the 'important' people in the Hung Sing Gwoon are...but where is Frank???

Pic 1 (http://gallery.mac.com/kungfu531#100037/IMG_0497_2_2&bgcolor=black)

Pic 2 (http://gallery.mac.com/kungfu531#100037/IMG_0497_2&bgcolor=black)

And Franks's pic was up on another wall...but alas, it is down now.

So what happened?? They would dare take down Frank's Pic...but isn't he the modern day patriarch of CLF??


HA HA HA, there are even pictures of me up in the Hung Sing School....but no pics of Frank?? Hmmm, and according to Franky Franklin, I'm not even 'anyone' in CLF....

[hskwarrior]

yao sing, with blessings from my sifu,,,,that is none of your business.

[hskwarrior]

and who are guys that i have to explain my coonection to fut san. one thing is for sure, i was never kicked out. for those of u who think u got a clue......try again!

[Yao Sing]

I know and you're going to kick my arse next time I'm in SF. Hey, I tried to help you out.

You're just too confusing.

BTW, none of it is anyone's business but you bring it all to the public through you comments here. You want to be in the limelight but then when you are you tell people it's none of their business. Want to keep your life private keep it off the Internet.

Personal insults to other Kung Fu brothers definitely won't keep your private life out of the public.

So are you back with Dino again or is that a private matter? Just wondering.

[hskwarrior]

whether or not my pic was taken down, i will always be connected to fut san since my sifu is a student there as well. get a clue!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

.oh and what can't i do again mike?

Oh, I don't know.... watch yourself take a ****??? Can you do that??

So what happened with you and the Fut San School, huh, Mr. CLF?? Mr. I'm Hung Sing??

Do you want ME to tell you??? Or would you like to just tell everyone here instead about your 'falling out' (Putting it nicely)

[hskwarrior]

um, i am on the hung sing fut san website, on hung sing fut san poster and in all the books. but regardless ifi dropped my fut san sifu, i will always be hung sing biatches!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Wow, you really think you are fighting a war between yourself and all of us. You really need to seek some help. I'm not even joking, I'm completely serious. I am sad for you.

[hskwarrior]

mike u aint hung sing, u are a tourist that went to fut san. d ont over inflate ur ego! fool

[hskwarrior]

in fut san there is no fall out. i don't have the money to back. gm d. salvatera and i have resolved our issues, so yes! but the details of our old fall out will always be none of ur business mike!

[lkfmdc]

whether or not my pic was taken down, i will always be connected to fut san since blah blah blah!

From this post it seems pretty obvious that his pic was indeed taken down and it isnt a huge stretch to figure out WHY

The rest is just more of Frank's excuses and double talk :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

So are you back with Dino again or is that a private matter?

When Frank got kicked out of the school last time, did he see his shadow? Should we expect a long winter?

[hskwarrior]

go ahead mike. lets hear ur fairytale of what went down. but first, u should know, dfw spoke to my sifu in fut san for me a few times. no problems that i knew of.

[lkfmdc]

I wonder what they'd think if they knew you were posting like a fool on here? You know, Mike and I can arrange for that to happen. I wonder what they'd think of you talking trash about CTS?

For that matter, I have hing-dai who actually know the Lau/Liu/Lew family.. wonder what the family would think of how you toss around Lau Bun's name while carrying on like an infant?

[Yao Sing]

Frank, I know how important it is to you to be back with Sifu Dino. Good luck.

[hskwarrior]

a phone call was all it took......mikey! y u wanna mislead these people? the only photos fut san has of me are personal photo's, i never submitted my head shot like my sifu and the dai sihing of our school. so u are lying to the masses mikey!

[seisei]

when i was in futsan i saw sifu dinos picture and his most senior student sifu hannibal
and hannibals student sifu dan so i also asked where was sifu franks photo they had said that he never submitted one at the time of posting but was a student and had wondered when he would return.if he is back with sifu dino is unknown to me
m

[hskwarrior]

thanks yao sing. it was very important to fix our issues. he will be my sifu for life! an d mike, nice try, no cigar!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

stop making is seem like I have some personal vendetta against you. In all honesty, you are a very insignificant person in my world (or the world of martial
Arts for that matter)

I could care less who you do or do not train with. I could care even less who kicked you out or how many times. Or whether or not you lived up to your promises to your new sifu in fut San. Whatever, just fun to watch the big man squirm a bit and avoid the issue for a little while.

You are a clown frankie...just go ahead and ask anyone. See ya later, chief.

[hskwarrior]

haaha. i was fut san before i went to fut san. regardless of which sifu, he xiang is my fut san sigung. yes, i couldnt go back to fut san, but am blessed yet because ill learn fut san forms thru sifu dino. mike, ur the clown. seriously!

[T. Cunningham]

Hey! You can say

???

****ing

on this forum?!?!?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Hey! You can say



on this forum?!?!?

Yes, I can....so can anyone.

[T. Cunningham]

Yes, I can....so can anyone.

Well out****ing standing!! Thought something was strange when I got edited for writing "****ed", but you got ****ing through the filters.


....ok.....ok..... I think I got it out of my system.....

[kup choi]

Frank, do yourself a favor and take all of your video footage off the net, it's an embarrassment to you and to CLF :D

[Terrygrey]

Yes, in my earliest research (which i haven't updated because the new updated stuff was going into my book) i purposefully listed an incorrect date out of spite for the Chan Family in hopes i'd uncover more information.

For people like dragon 323, or anyone else for that matter, my only fault is that I didn't update my information as my research progressed. yes some of my early writing don't match what I write today. Thats because I learned new things that told me where I had fix them. I just never got back to updating my old or early research.



And Mikey, what do you think you really know about me and what i do here in SF? Do you know who i know, hang out with, associate with, or anything? how do you know i'm not anything you claim im not? because YOU said so?

Shows you how stupid you really are. Take a look at my lineage..........if you knew then you'd know. But you don't say. LOL!

Classic. Just classic. Intentionally putting out false information, making things up and hopinh no one catches him. And if they do, the old "prove me wrong, prove me wrong" Disgusting.

Flanky, the point is your research is good for being topic for a stupid joke, but not any serious consideration. And it appears like you are behaving like a clown, whether you realise it or not.

If Deeeeennnnoooooooo is supporting your stools then may be should take his "stuff" like a joke as well.

[dragon323]

Hello

hskwarrior say: "People are jumping down my throat for a simple incorrect date"
but is not a simple incorrect date is one and another and another and another......

And all your conclusions are based on these mistakes, not modify or errors nor the conclusions that those mistakes livelihood.

"Until my sifu and I started researching the Hung Sing history, no other information about our lineage was known until we started digging,"

Is not true; my lineage also comes from GM Yuen Hai and GM Chan Ngau Sing and I have been forwarded the story of Hung Sing before you and your Master go to Futsan.

You still unaswared my questions questions about transmissions in your school.

Regards.