Lower Back Ache

[masherdong]

Well, I have been having lower back pain for the last 3 days now. I would have this back pain every 3-4 months and it would last for about a week. So, this is not the first time that this has happened. This time, the pain is much more painful than in the previous appearances. The pain is in the middle lower back just above my tailbone. I went to the doctor yesterday and he had me get x-rays done to make sure that my spine was ok. The x-rays were negative and he said that everything looks normal. So, I am trying to see what may be causing the pain? I thought about getting a deep tissue massage or going to a chiropractor.

So, what does everyone else think? Is there a doctor in the house?

Please let me know what your opinions are, thanks.

[Suntzu]

could be back spasms..... the low back muscles have long memories and will spaz for little reason after the 1st injury..... after the sharp pains dissapate, work on low back muscular endurance, ab strength and hamstring flexibility and hope for the best.......

accupuncture and messages with ice work best for me at the onset of a reoccurance and really helps reduce recovery time....

i've been dealing with back spasms for the past 6 years.... just when you think they are gone........... :mad:

:D

[No_Know]

Keep your buttocks in or push your hips forward. Take shorter steps. Keep your shoulders behind the front of your waist.

Sleep on your back with something to elevate your buttocks if laying flat surfaced. Or sleep in a way tthat your rolled forward hips hold that position.

My thought is that your spine is shifted--your belly is in front of your waist. And therefore your buttocks are pushed back. Your upper body weight presses on the shifted weaker area and stomping bumping, transitioned vibrations stop at the break in fluidity of the spinal shift. Massaging just above this areaand pressing downmight begin to unlock it. A liscenced chiropractor might be in order or a bone-setter type.

I No_Know

[rogue]

For back spasms a TENS Unit is a God send.

[masherdong]

Went to the chiro today. He gave me some PT with the electrodes for 10 min and that felt gooood! Afterwards, he adjusted me. I dont think I ever heard my back pop like a machine gun! He was telling me that 90% of the time the pain I have is "mechanical" and just needs adjustment. He was telling me that if the pain has not subsided, he then said that an MRI will be needed. He also told me to get a message, so I have an appt tomorrow for that.

[rogue]

I get messages daily on my voice mail.

[kwaichang]

While i agree with PT I have to say that the fascia has a memory as well and can definately re instate the SI anomoly. I have just overcame such an injury. The sooner you have it corrected the sooner you can get better look for muscle imbalances as well. Mine got reallllll bad and was very painful. Hey PT remember when I e-mailed you about my hips well the SI was the stert of it PM me I will tell you more I think you will find it interestin, I think I am going to do a paper on it. KC :)

[rogue]

TENS (transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation), while helpful when on, does, unfortunately, little to nothing in terms of actually solving the problem (beyond possibly giving you relief to get you out of pain, in order for you to do something more long term), because TENS is the equivalent of putting your hands over your ears and singing "la la la" when you don't want to listen to something else; the mechanism involves sending more "noise" into the pain fibers, effectively taking up all the space so that the pain signals are shoved out; but it doesn't do anything to the muscles per se (hence the name); NMES (neuromuscular electircal stimulation) is what actually causes muscles to contract in various ways, and can have various therapeutic benefits (such ass resetting the reflex contraction threshold, turning off on-going spasm, clearing inflammation and bringing in more oxygenated blood) depending on how it's used and what you do during and after

Right. The TENS unit is what I use in place of the pain killers I was on which left my a very unhappy Rogue. With the pain cycle reduced I'm usually able to do the things that stop the spasm (stretch, some acupressure and get to my PT). Next time I have a bad attack I'll check with my PT about the NMES.

[rogue]

BTW, what's the prob? more importantly, have you tried to figure out what your body does the day or three before you have a spasm? that's what I typically tried to get my patients to figure out, even to the point of doing a sort of "self-diagnostic" routine (different for each person, of course) that would give them a heads up that trouble was potentially on the way - that way, they could either self-manage more aggressively, or come see me before it got really out of hand; the ones who took the time to be consistent with this ended up much happier and seeing me much less frequently...

Hi Chris, The problem seems to be with the quadratus lumborum and I've had the problem for over 25 years. It used to be very sporadic but now seems more frequent. The good news is that I can generally catch it real early and stop it with a some specific stretches followed by a light workout. Don't know if that really helps but so far, so good. For times when it sinks in more I'll add in a couple of Alleves, heat/ice and the TENS. Every once in a blue moon the muscle will spasm around one of the big nerves whose name I can't remember right now, resulting in a real fun time similar to hot skewers in my back, someone screaming and a white out. Really scares the hell out of the kids and the dog.:D

These days I have it mostly under control. Things I've changed is no more high round house kicks, dropped doing most TMA style stretches, I don't sit for hours at a time (got out of jury duty because of it), only sleep in certain positions and I make sure I exercise on a regular basis. Bunch of other stuff too but those are the main ones.

[rogue]

the take-home message: while starting locally is fine, IME chronic QL is often associated w/compensation for something else, or several different things; in your case, as you have aggressively treated it locally with inconsistent success, I'd look at ll those other things

Good call!

What kind of treatments are you suggesting?

[kwaichang]

quadratus Lumb will spasm due to pelvic instability it will shorten and all ow the Upslip to continue to be a problem , assoc Muscles will then compensate such as the Iliacus and Psoas, Multifidus as well and assoc lumbar rotation segmentally will decrease. The problem lies in isolating the problem area and the segments that are causing the problem. look at rib displacement as well and increase mobility or kyphosis in the thoracic also get screened for scoliosis. Just a thought KC

[No_Know]

what he describes might alleviate some types of LBP, it could significantly aggravate others...

"Four diagnostic categories were defined: type I - LBP with no radiation; type 2 - LBP radiating no further than the knee; type 3 - LBP radiating beyond the knee, but with no neurologic signs; and type 4 - LBP radiating to a specific and entire leg dermatome. with or without neurologic signs."Where I got these four types list and description (http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=15367059)

cjurakpt, if these are not adequate, then when you have a moment, which types of LBP are there? And which do you understand that what I-No_Know described could significantly aggravate?


I No_Know

[kwaichang]

I have to agree with PT he is very knowledgable from my conversations with him. I had a patient once with R lower leg pain he and my co workers thought it was from a trauma at the Airport,L5 S1 dermatome, I treated this patient and found no othwer complaints as I continued to treat him I found something just wasnt "right". One day I did US STM and MFR followed by Cryo to decrese pain and inflammation the pt was pain free at the end of the hour I had him. Good work right??
Well as soon as he sat up he had his same old pain again. I asked have you had your back cleared he said no. I recommended he go back and see his Md he performed an MRI and guess what he had a herniated disc in his LB. Go figure so dont give advise even the pro's get it wrong some time and sometime we are just lucky KC

[David Jamieson]

be cool if typical tcm clinics could afford MRI machines.

[kwaichang]

There is an Aruveda prac in India that works with local Oncologists who uses trad med and has a 95% cure rate for cancers KC COOL

[No_Know]

It is not a discussion with me to state what you already mentioned, but with examples.

Preface:
I have not fully examined cjurakpt and therefore do not claim to know anything about cjurakpt’s specific situation.

While this sort of disclaimer allows cjurakpt to enter a discussion about things cjurakpt cannot know without having partaken in a direct examination and then cjurakpt’s extensive knowledge and experience might do other than be significant to advise the most productive course of action to a resolution. Yet cjurakpt suggests or gives advice best as cjurakpt understands to at that moment.

I at best perhaps seek clarification of comment made by cjurakpt “what he describes might alleviate some types of LBP, it could significantly aggravate others; in general, I suggest not taking specific advice on what to do from someone who has no ability to properly diagnose you, but if you do (maybe you are totally desperate and out of all other options, e.g.), go slow and be careful
potentially dangerous speculation from No_Know...”

What I had later provided wee not in and of themselves diagnostic categories. I asked cjurakpt to provide those. cjurakpt did other than that. Cjurakpt states that my mentions might alleviate some types of LBP, it could significantly aggravate others. Which others? Where does what I say for masherdong’s particular mention not work.

I commented on masherdong’s mention specifically. cjurakpt brings up might alleviate some types of LBP, it could significantly aggravate others. How many situations does masherdong have as you understand it cjurakpt? Your words seem to me to indicate many, unless perhaps you are off the topic or you No_Know.

No discussion with a No_Know. You indicate might alleviate some types of LBP, it could significantly aggravate others.
What are these LBP types that that you say I described might aggravate?



Thank you,
No_Know

[No_Know]

before we go any further, I would really like to know if English is not your first language, or if you have some sort of cognitive impairment; I ask this because I am going to indulge you a little just to make my point, but I need to understand why you write like a third grader;

Other than a liscenced Healthcare practitioner.

English would count as my first language.

Not diagnosed as having some sort of cognitive impairment.

As to why I write as you might say, a third grader it would be in regards to a concept of allowing for the greastest audience for understanding.

No_Know

[IronWeasel]

It's been 24 hours with no response.

Either you made your point overwhelmingly...

...or he's STILL reading your post.

[kwaichang]

I liked it very interesting I wouldnt wast all my time though KC:)

[IronWeasel]

thanks; not wasting time - it is a good question in a theoretical sense, and since I don't do this stuff on a regular basis these days, it helps to keep the brain working; certainly, if you had a different perspective on any of what I wrote I would be happy to hear your views



I think he might have meant 'waste so much time' rebutting No_Know. you could have shot him down with a sentence or two.:)

[kwaichang]

I like to exerise the brain like this as well I have 2 young children so dont have any time at times.
My Opinion, Soft tissue lesions Ie: adhesions, strains with assoc inflamation and soft tissue damage are the culprit at times. However I feel that they occur due to long term structural changes caused by Muscle imbalances or Trauma singularly or multiple times.
Being a MA I feel the trauma is probably due to impact either by someone or the floor. But could also be assoc with long term poor training methods and assoc structural changes . Such as Pelvic anomoly or SI if you want to call it that , however since, I believe he said R LB is the problem area Annular tear or Disc is also a possibility Rad pain isnt always a constant.Also possible fracture with assoc changes calcification etc. Vetebral Rotation or Rib as I said before with assoc Muscle fatigue due to overuse which occurs due to specific adaptations from a structural stand point. I am a structural type of guy and feel this is his problem with assoc lesions as described. Correct the structural problem release the adhesions and get STM progress slow avoid rotational trunk motions at 1st and go from there. KC

[No_Know]

To cjruakpt: Very good.

well, it's pretty strange that you would think that ignoring rules of English grammar and syntax would enhance the universality of your writing; I personally find your writing very difficult to follow; perhaps you could try to write according to a more standard format for the duration of this exchange

I did not understand this to be an exchange passed, that I ask for clarification, then you clarify. You did not care to have a discussion with the likes of me. With that you have responded and I acknowledge that you have done-so. Thank you for your time. And have a great day.

It's been 24 hours with no response.

Either you made your point overwhelmingly...

...or he's STILL reading your post.

There might also be availbility of access to the Internet. Or that this might not be the most significant occurance in my existance. Thank you.

No_Know

[IronWeasel]

To cjruakpt: Very good.



I did not understand this to be an exchange passed, that I ask for clarification, then you clarify. You did not care to have a discussion with the likes of me. With that you have responded and I acknowledge that you have done-so. Thank you for your time. And have a great day.



There might also be availbility of access to the Internet. Or that this might not be the most significant occurance in my existance. Thank you.

No_Know



We're just here to help. Let's begin with grammar and sentence structure.

Today's peeve: Don't end a sentence with a preposition.

[No_Know]

Very good.

No_Know

[IronWeasel]

Very good.

No_Know



Let's see a subject and predicate.

[No_Know]

masherdong what has gone on about your lower back pain?

[rogue]

Thanks Chris, I'll start check for those creds. in the PTs in my area. :)