weapons training!

[brainwars]

Hi all,
I am trying to find out what other people think about the following-
regarding weapons training (in particular the broadsword) is it best to start early on in my training so when the time comes, i will be familiar in the ways of the sword, or; is it best to stick to the basics until they are spot on, or ; maybe somewhere in between ?
i know weapons usually are taught to the well experienced, but i am asking for personal opinions.
Thankyou in advance!

[GLW]

Start early...use live steel with a razor edge.

Then, you either succeed of people call you Stumpy....

Seriously, you should have stance and balance basics first. Also a basic knowledge of how to move your body and combine arms, legs, torso, head, etc... as a single unit.

After that, I would say don't start on weapon routines...but rather spend a long long time on weapon basic techniques. I eve prefer that after the basic techniques are known, to go to two person drills with the weapon where practical (and where students have the interest - hard to take a group of Taijiquan people interested in the health benefits mainly and FORCE them to do 2 person sword application drills... :) )

All the while continuing on with barehand....

[cjurakpt]

I would argue that, based on my experience, barehand training has minimal impact on weapons training; in other words, there's no reason not to start it early on, no such thing as "too soon"; frankly, you could even train it without training barehand and be fine (you don't see too many successful fencers attributing their skill to their emptyhand training now, do you? or lacrosse players spending much time learning to play without a stick...); the bigger issue is, how well can you absorb learning more than one skill set at a time? for some people that's easy, for others it's too much - but again, I wouldn't say you needed skill in one to be able to do the other...

I also agree that for weapons training (not unlike like empty hand in this case), it's better to start on two-person drills sooner rather than later; to wit, when I started teaching stick fighting I used to have people go through it the same way I learned it - in the air; at one poitn i switched it around and started partner training right away, 8 AM, day one: not only was it more interesting, people's mechanics were better sooner...

[GLW]

exactly...what is need from barehand training is how to stand up, step, move the upper body without thowing the lower body out of balance, etc... basic skills that are universal to any martial activity - not barehand or weapon.

Fencers drill the lunge and stepping - and put the hands in position for it...sometimes with and sometimes without the sword....

However, if you don't have the leg strength for stance work and moving drills, that is the place to start.

[cjurakpt]

Fencers drill the lunge and stepping - and put the hands in position for it...sometimes with and sometimes without the sword....

my old Hungarian saber fencing teacher would stand and drop an apple and you had to lunge out and catch it...that was one of the less sadistic things he had up his sleeve...

[SanHeChuan]

The problem with weapons training is that some people do need to be taught general coordination first, because the risk of injury is greater.

You see it in every school, just with empty hand.

There are people who walk in a look pretty good, and people who have been there for years and still look like they are flailing.

personally I'm not for babying people, I say throw them in with the wolves. If they get hurt, it'll tuff'n them up.

For more responsible people, start slower, keep more students, and see slower progress.

if your capable, why wait?

[David Jamieson]

they make wooden practice weapons for that reason.

[scholar]

I've known people to benefit from weapons as early as 6 months to a year into training. As above, this is after stance training and form work coordination basics have been drilled.

Spear is a good way to start if the student is in relatively good shape already. It is demanding; vigorous spear work conditions the upper body, shoulders and (esp.) wrists, but it can be hard on the ceiling, walls, and furniture. If there isn't room for the spear in the classroom, then broadsword is my next choice.

[sanjuro_ronin]

FMA start weapons training first and H2H after, there are pro's and con's to that, one of them being that the power generation of an armed system is not the same as for an empty handed system.

But weapons training gives you a unique perspective of close quarter fighting.