View Full Version : 'energy manifestations'
In my readings I've come across various concepts which seem all to have some energetic component to them. I figured that these all must be related in one way or another. In Daoism you'll hear of jing, qi, and shen. There's also de or virtue. And there's gong which I came across in falun gong which I'm not sure if it has an equivalent in another system. And it's said that having a pure heart helps one to keep a calm mind. And having good karma also helps with this. I've experienced something like this before. When I act wrongfully I feel regretful and have an accompanying physical feeling of uneasiness--probably something going on with the qi. How do these different concepts from different systems fit together? Maybe there are different energetic manifestations with some being subtler than others. For example, attaining good karma or 'merit' seems to me to be more suble than doing qi work. That is, one can dig 'deeper' and refine their psyche (for lack of a better word) more so when cultivating with karma than cultivating with qi. Take for example one of the compassionate Buddhists who are described as having compassionate energy radiating from them and who have beautiful qi auras. And the Buddha was also described as having a rainbow-colored aura whereas Lao-zi's was only purple (see "Qigong Empowerment" by Liang and Wu). The Buddhists didn't cultivate their qi in specific, but the qi-like manifestions were of natural consequence of their doing 'deeper work'. [Sorry, I'm trying to be coherent with all this but I don't know how this will turn out.] What is the deepest or subltest 'psychic work'. Maybe my ideas are all mixed up; I'm still sorting this out. Can anyone point me to helpful sources
What is the context of prana (Indian for qi) in Buddhist practice? What's said about prana in a Buddhist source (anything?)? I know with Vajrayana (and Tibetan Buddhism) there is a lot about prana. But what about the earliest teachings of the Buddha...
How does astrology and cosmology tie into all of this? Everything seems to be so very inter-connected. Li Hongzhi talks of lesser are greater galaxies where buddhas and bodhisattvas reside. (Right now I do not know where to place falun gong but I think some ideas could be relevant). Now I don't know much about the Yi Jing or the hexagrams but aren't these used to predict the future to some extent? (I don't feel like looking this up at the moment :) Couldn't this be related to astrology and cosmic movements (e.g. planetary and moon movements)? I want to add a relevant passage from "The Diamond Sutra and the Sutra of Hui-Neng" (A.F. Price & Wong Mou-lam) here.
Context: end of Hui-Neng's life
Quote: "Having uttered the stanza, he [Hui-Neng] sat reverently until the third watch of the night. Then he said abruptly to his disciples, "I am going now," and in a sudden passed away. A peculiar fragrance pervaded his room, and a lunar rainbow apeared, which seemed to join up earth and sky. The trees in the wood turned white, and birds and beasts cried mournfully.... Next year, on the twenty-fifth day of the seventh moon, the [Hui-Neng's] body was taken out of the shrine, and Fang-pien, a disciple of the patriarch, plastered it with incense clay. Recollecting the patriarch's prediction that someone would take away his head, the disciples, as a matter of precaution, strengthened his neck by wrapping it with iron sheets and lacquered cloth before the body was placed into the stupa. Suddenly, a flash of white light rushed out from the stupa, went straight toward the sky, and did not disperse until three days after. The incident was duly reported to the throne by the officials of Shao-chou district."
I wanted to include this because it relates to enlightened people and accompanying supernormal phenomena. There's also the case of the monk leaving behind 'sarira' of his body after he passes. I also remember reading about a great master getting cut or decapitated (I don't remember which) and the blood which flowed was white blood. So it seems to me that "advancement in the holy life" brings with it a transformation of being (at different levels such as physical, mental, etc.). Also, one typically gains psychic abilities with progress. So where does the heart of the cultivation lie--the deepest level of practice, if you will? The Zen branch always says that you shouldn't go after these lower attainments and that there's no 'merit'. Any thoughts? Here are some of mine. The different energy manifestations are all conditional and advancement in this line will improve the conditions condusive towards enlightenment and make you a likelier 'candidate'. But, according to Zen, this line of 'work' alone cannot put you on the "other shore" (enlightenment). There is not a direct causal link between one's 'psychic level' and enlightenment although the former assists in gaining the latter. There needs to be a grand realisation of sort.
Any thoughts and input are well appreciated
10-27-2001, 09:40 AM
panna (sanskrit) is only wisdom, caused by non-duality. Different from energy winds.
The highest order in Buddhism is untieing the knots and realising the The Buddha Drops, some call it light.
Look up the three bodies, the coarse, subtle and the Buddhamind 'tigle', in Vajrayana, as you speak off.
Hmm also to add further, in Buddhism, the rainbow light attainment happens when one reaches enlightenment during the passage through death, and ones body dissolves into rainbow light leaving only nails and teeth (not sure about this one... the teeth that is). This is a sign of the highest merits.
ALso, you speak of these special psychic abilities. Buddha taught, we all have it, but we are deluded and hence do not know how to use it. For this, the ability to use it is useless and a further hindrance to our progress unless we posses transcendental wisdom. Hence In Theravada, you are taught to build panna via Vipasyana (Wisdom via insight meditation) and and that annapanna-sati (concentration) itself may not lead you to ultimate enlightenment.
For one that you seem more familiar with, Vajrayana uses two symbols, the male and female aspects, that is, the warrior and the wisdom, the female and the male. The left and the right channels, the white and the red 'tigle' uniting.
Err I better not say more before I tie myself to a cage.
[This message was edited by prana on 10-28-01 at 12:54 AM.]
10-27-2001, 10:53 PM
First and foremost, Diamond Sutra is a very sloppy translation. It lost all the true meaning of the title. Vajra Prajna Paramita is a mean (the vehicle) to end suferring which essentially is a spatial-temporal [energy] flux. This Paramita (self-help crossing to the other side method) of Buddha is called, Vajra (that which destorys), which is the adjective of, Prajna (wisdom of the void), which is organic (very important concept). Basically, it means a method to destory all illusions with the wisdom of the void, which is organic because it interact rather then act upon. Vajra also suggests that there is a dutyful guardian warrior role by which Prajna plays. The Sutra mentioned some core concepts and precepts while meditating. The purpose is to understand them and not to be confused by them. It truely is a very powerful Sutra.
I Ching took a slightly different approach but it also deals with the same problems at the energy level. It also regards this reality as spatial-temporal [energy] flux, but it branches off to a different application that is known as divination (fortune telling). Check out Timewave theories for the math. What I Ching covers is the nature of time which Hindu, Buddhist and Taoist alike have been maintain all along that it is 4 dimentional in nature. That, IMHO, is why should a implosion of this planet (world) or even the universe, we are not likely to see our clock literally turn back. That is to said we are not going to first experience yesterday all over again and then the day after, etc... Stephen Hawkins rasied that question before. That is also why that a movement is unpredictalbe (at least in Buddhist view that you have a choice to alter it). In other words nothing is destined. You can break the chain of events at any given point of time. The problem with I Ching is that it is rather hard to understand unless there is someone to guide you through it because of the written language and that there is also oral tradition. So it is rather hard to study it properly.
Just a few thoughts
Contraria Sunt Complementa
10-28-2001, 08:34 AM
Excellent approach mantis. Regarding the fourth dimension, that of time, one of the theories of the internal arts is you progressively move into this dimension. Illustrated in the 'Dao of Taijiquan' by Master Jou, he speaks regarding the fourth dimension and how with time, one begins to enter it and see things without the imparement of time, although one must read it themselves to get a good sense of what he is saying. He uses an example illustrating how a Shadow is 2-dimmension, and to a shadow, an apple falling would appear as only a horizontal fragment of the apple, not a 3-d item. So even if we were to explain to a shadow exactly what an apple is, it would be completely unable to understand, as it only sees things in the 2-dimensional plane. This is often why many of the explanations that are conveyed from the 4th dimension, that of time, are difficult for us who live in 3-dimension world to understand.
10-28-2001, 09:30 PM
Yeah, Master Jou's book is a great read. I agree that internal arts ultimately take one to the the 4 dimensional plateau. That is if the teaching is true teaching. :)
Contraria Sunt Complementa
Scott R. Brown
10-29-2001, 06:48 AM
Would you please give your source for your information on the Diamond Sutra. I would be interested in reading it. I was not that impressed with the version I have.
10-29-2001, 09:23 PM
I hear you. I haven't found anything satisfactory on interperting the Sutra on the net neither. I think the problem really lies in approaching the Sutra intellectually (western approach) rather than the "physical" approach (energy level),which the oriental schools advocate. That's perphas the reason Vajra is translated as Dimond because of the "political correctness". Vajra in Hindu tradition is a Sakti, which is Power as a gift presented by the God Indra and only those who practise asceticism can ,or worthy of (not a guarantee though), receiving such "gift", which is impermanat and unstable. There is simply no such a cultural-religious equivalent. So dimond, which can cut and is almost indestructable as far as material goes, is used instead. Well... beside the fact that Sutra mentioned wealth/treasures as well, so the dimond became a nature substitute. But it lost at least half if not all of the meaning of Vajra. Politcal correctness has destroyed many good teachings including the life story of Buddha. Here is another thing that I have a hard time finding on the net. The part regarding his birth is filled with parables that conveys most of the core concepts/teachings of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism, but now those stuff are edited out (quite a shame). Hopefully, one day people would see the falacy of political correctness and really spread the good teachings as they should. Sorry about the rant. :D
The book, which was a gift from a friend, that I have on the Sutra is a Chinese version. I am not sure if it is available in English. It might because the person who wrote the book has quite a following in HK and Taiwan. He uses perspective from his meditative attainment. At first, I discarded him as an occult Neo-Qigongoligist (if there is such a word) and I almost gave the book away. But I guess it was Karma that the weekend I was about to give away (to the local liburary), I flipped through it one more time and happen to notice the section on explaining the title (talk about Samadhi/happiness, lol...) That was the translation/interpretation mentioned aboved. After reading the whole book carefully, I find his work quite amazingly "direct" just as the Sutra lay out. I will try to scan in the cover. May be your friend in Chinatown can find a copy and translate it. I have to say that I am not a follower of his but I found his work by far most articulate and pragmatic on the interpertation of the Sutras. He has also done work on the Tao Te Ching as well.
P.S. I enjoy your posts a lot and please feel free to email me at
Contraria Sunt Complementa
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