Qi

[Hendrik]

I agree and dis-agree with Terence. since the the post some how got delete. Here I post my reply.



I agree Yes there are lots of fake Qi-gong teachers out there who has no idea what they are talking about and have no clue on the subject but posting as masters to cheat and mislead people.

However, Qi is real stuffs and Qi have different levels and different characteristics.


Since I dont know how to post PDF pictures here. If someone could help me I would.
Here is the real record of Qi or Energy research experiment of my sifu Li JiXing last year. Also, he has just completed another research experiment on blood cancer cell a few weeks ago. and the result is similar to the following one.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Time: December 2nd to December 20th, 2006
Place: Laboratory of Penn State Children’s Hospital
Host: Professor John E. Neely MD, Pediatrics, Hematology-Oncology

Set Up: Dr, Neely chose one type of bone cancer cells ( bone tumor) for the ex-
periment. This particular cell line is known to be resistant to cyclophosphamide, a common
chemotherapy used to treat this tumor.
There were two incubators in the laboratory. First one contained two shelves; cells placed
on the upper shelf were for experiment, cells placed on the lower shelf were for control
(comparison). There were only control cells in the second incubator.

Procedure: During this period of time, Jixing Li sent healing energy from his office located in
Mountain View, California to contain the growth of those cancer cells placed in the
experiment shelf. Jixing Li has never been to the Penn State Children’s Hospital nor known
the exact location of this laboratory.
Dr. Neely’s assistant counted the total number of cells regularly. There were significant
differences in growth rate starting from the 3rd day. On the 12th day, cells on the control
shelf already grew full in their plates. Cells on the experiment shelf first grew in a much
slower rate and eventually the number of cells decreased almost to zero. Also, there were
cells contained multiple nuclei in the experiment group, which could not be explained by
modern medical science as how it happened.

There were three sets of cells on the experiment shelf, Jixing Li used
three different energy transformation methods which represented by 1A-
2, 1B and 1C-2. Control 2 and Control 3 were control cells; there were
no energy work on those cells so the cells were growing at their normal
There were cells contained multiple nuclei, which
could not be explained by modern medical science
as how it happened.
Chart and photograph provided by Penn State Children’s Hospital


________________________________________



I post this above here to show as evidence. since Terence mention about cancer.

Yes, Qi exist. and also Yes, Qi cultivation exist in WCK's SLT. However, coud we tap into its training....etc That is the big question. however, research into the YJKYM will clearly tell if the set one does can or cannot carry one that far.

As my sifu Li Ji-Xing told me, one cant just read a few books and using one speculative mind to think one knows and start teaching others what one has no clue.



So, Terence, you are right, lots of so called Qigung or WCK qigung masters are BSing.

ask the Qigung teacher to show you how to evoke your Qi within the first 12 hours of training. if he cant help you to manifest after the taining or he cant even manifest for himself.
Walk away dont waste your life and money.



Terence, since you are proffessional and I am sure you have connection to Penn State, called them up, check on them.

Let's Give the ancient Chinese ancestors a fair trail give an honest anwer to the public.



peace

[Daniel09]

That's really neat. It's too bad no one seems to have mastered a teaching method though. Or, at least they haven't found a public one.

I've been working with my own Qi. I haven't had any training, just on my own, but I'm beginning to get an idea of using it for healing, as my feet have been injured in some way. When I concentrate the energy there I get instant pain relief, but my problem is the pain comes back. Thus, I've come to the conclusion that I don't have enough control yet. I plan on excersizing it over the next 10-20 years to try and gain control. Till then I will read what I can and see what works.

[Hendrik]

That's really neat. It's too bad no one seems to have mastered a teaching method though. Or, at least they haven't found a public one.

I've been working with my own Qi. I haven't had any training, just on my own, but I'm beginning to get an idea of using it for healing, as my feet have been injured in some way. When I concentrate the energy there I get instant pain relief, but my problem is the pain comes back. Thus, I've come to the conclusion that I don't have enough control yet. I plan on excersizing it over the next 10-20 years to try and gain control. Till then I will read what I can and see what works.

GEt a teacher that is the shortest path to learn to handle this. Dont waste life.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The issue with Qi is that science has yet to prove it exists, in a way that the people who believe in chi agree with.

Is it air?
breathe?
Bioelectrical field ?
Can it be cultivate? manipulated?
If the people that "preach" it can't agree on it, how can anyone on the outside looking in "believe"?

Kind of like the WC thread about "Bong", 9 pages of WC people debating what it is, can you imagine that about a left hook ??

[Hendrik]

The issue with Qi is that science has yet to prove it exists, in a way that the people who believe in chi agree with.

Is it air?
breathe?
Bioelectrical field ?
Can it be cultivate? manipulated?
If the people that "preach" it can't agree on it, how can anyone on the outside looking in "believe"?

Kind of like the WC thread about "Bong", 9 pages of WC people debating what it is, can you imagine that about a left hook ??



Read my post above.


It has been proven it exist be it in USA, Japan, or China --- Scientifically interm of wave and field.

It can be cultivate, manipulated..... certainly otherwise my sifu cannot do the experiment with Penn State and be able to repeat his handling on energy be it in China, Japan, or the USA's research lab.


The real problem is
Certainly, it is the issue that you have not update your knowledge on what happen in research in the past 5 years before your make your claim above.

and from your post you dont have any idea what is it.

So, why commenting or speculating anything you dont know?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Read my post above.


It has been proven it exist be it in USA, Japan, or China --- Scientifically interm of wave and field.

It can be cultivate, manipulated..... certainly otherwise my sifu cannot do the experiment with Penn State and be able to repeat his handling on energy be it in China, Japan, or the USA's research lab.


The real problem is
Certainly, it is the issue that you have not update your knowledge on what happen in research in the past 5 years before your make your claim above.

and from your post you dont have any idea what is it.

So, why commenting or speculating anything you dont know?

Did you read my post?
I said that people DON'T agree on what Qi is, I quote myself:
The issue with Qi is that science has yet to prove it exists, in a way that the people who believe in chi agree with.

And please feel free to link to these studies that have proven the exsistence of Qi.

[Hendrik]

Did you read my post?
I said that people DON'T agree on what Qi is, I quote myself:
The issue with Qi is that science has yet to prove it exists, in a way that the people who believe in chi agree with.

And please feel free to link to these studies that have proven the exsistence of Qi.

why dont you call Penn State and the MD above before you post?

And again,

you could believe anything you want including the world is the center of universe as once upon a time what human believe.. free will.

[Corwyn]

Read my post above.
It has been proven it exist be it in USA, Japan, or China --- Scientifically interm of wave and field.

It can be cultivate, manipulated..... certainly otherwise my sifu cannot do the experiment with Penn State and be able to repeat his handling on energy be it in China, Japan, or the USA's research lab.

The real problem is
Certainly, it is the issue that you have not update your knowledge on what happen in research in the past 5 years before your make your claim above.

and from your post you dont have any idea what is it.

So, why commenting or speculating anything you dont know?

REALLY??? Proven by whom and under what conditions? Can you name a SINGLE peer reviewed article or a double blind study published in any reputable journal by these mysterious un-names, unknown experimenters at Penn state? What department at Penn State? How were these studies done? How were these experiments controlled?


No I didn't think so! Instead you'll just give us more mysterious "they" and "some" and tell us how we just haven't educated ourselves, or have been brainwashed by the conspiracy of the establish science community. Typical cultist mentality.

It ALWAYS amazes me when people make such claims. They have no CLUE as to the actual implications of the nonsense they believe and post. I guess mostly because they lack even the most basic skills in critical thinking and science. Otherwise they wouldn't get suckered into the woo in the first place.

Belief in this is no different then believing in fairy's, UFO's, big foot,
Jesus, 911 conspiracies, intelligent design, heaven's gate Jim Jones and the list goes on.
EVERY one of these group of nutters have some things in common;
a) they all claim to have some special access to mysterious powers/knowledge that can only be found through them.

b) this knowledge has been proven ( evidence which they can NEVER provide though) but is being hidden or suppressed by the eeeevil (fill in the blank)

c) an extreme level of condescension ( exemplified in the above quote) towards anyone with the audacity to question said belief.

What amuses me the most is how people who so adamantly believe in such nonsense on the one hand have such contempt for others woo. The cognitive dissonance required is Olympic.

Substitute Hedricks claims about chi with Intelligent design and you have the same exact statements made by the likes of Behe in the recent Dover trials.
Substitute chi with UFO's and you get exactly the same statement from Applewhite
(the leader of Heavens Gate) Yet if you were to ask H about Heavens Gate, dollars to donuts he'd tell you Applewhite was a loon. Behe would tell you that both of these guys are nutters who will burn in hell for believing in the wrong god.

This wouldn't be a big deal, and it would even be funny, but for the incredible harm these people inflict on the gullible, the desperate , children or the ill.

So Sanjoro while I applaud your effort and share your fight, recognize that mostly you are banging your head against the wall and no you will never receive a straight answer from people like this.

[Corwyn]

why dont you call Penn State and the MD above before you post?

And again,

you could believe anything you want including the world is the center of universe as once upon a time what human believe.. free will.

What MD you didn't name anyone and what department at Penn?
And what does that prove? SO some nut professor with tenure is waisting tax dollars trying to prove his delusions. Have you ever heard of the scientific method? No I didn't think so. There are "universities" setup by fundi christians offering degrees in the biblical study that the earth is only 6000 years old.
Do you accept that too because some one at "university" says so??
If not why not?

BUT FORGET ALL THAT. The onus is on YOU! This is typical WOO tactics of trying to move the goal posts and getting the "opposition" to prove a negative.

You are the one making claims, without providing ANY proof except some unsubstantiated stuff about a study.

You know what normal people call that? - LYING or to be kind delusional.

[Sihing73]

Jesus was a historical figure known to exist. Questions are regarding his claim to divinity. Why do people who opt to believe have to be "nutters". Consider the change in all of the disciples who went into hiding when Christ was crucified but then preached about him, and the way of Salvation. Each of these, with the exception of John who died in exile, died horrible deaths. Why would they suffer so, along with so many others, for a false faith. The scientific method considers evidence so please explain the change in the disciples using science.

Scientific evidence is not always accurate and sometimes what was once taken as gospel is proven to be incorrect as technology advances.

Since you quote science as being the end all please explain to me how a bumble bee can fly and a hummingbird can hover. If you can't explain these two examples of nature then how can you say without reservation that QI does not exist?

[Daniel09]

GEt a teacher that is the shortest path to learn to handle this. Dont waste life.

I'm not sure what you mean by waste life. If you think I was injured during practice you're mistaken. I injured my feet while running, and I have been practicing qi control to try and speed up the healing, but nothing stupid. I am a very scientific thinker and I don't take to believing superstitious things right off the bat. I've seen my own qi work, and that's enough to get me researching.

The problem most people have is that there's no bottle that says "qi" that they can study. Because they can't see it or manipulate it with instruments, they immediately take it as a myth. The point of science is to branch out into unknown regions and explain them. If you choose one explanation and allow no changes, what are you achieving. If anyone here knows anything about true science they wouldn't so easily take this as a crackpot loony bin experiment. They would analyze it, ask questions, and attempt to repeat the experiment with all means possible. They would find loopholes in the testing and fix them, then try again.

All this talk about "impossibilities" is the rubbish. From my experience, and I shall say the experience history has taught us, nothing is impossible. It may seem unlikely, but you never know until you, and I stress you, have tested it yourself in every way, shape, and form. Just because a study is performed doesn't make it fact, just like just because you say qi doesn't exist is not a fact. It's an OPINION. Enough said.

[Hendrik]

believe what you like and create the world as you believe. it is a free will world.

as you like so you got.

[sanjuro_ronin]

See this is the issue, I, who incidently does believe in chi as a bio-electrical magnetic force in every living being, was reamed by someone because I simply stated that there are different views of chi is, that are held by those the believe in its existence.

As for calling up Penn state, no problem, gotta a couple of friends that went there, as it was, what departement , the same one in what you posted?

" Host: Professor John E. Neely MD, Pediatrics, Hematology-Oncology "

[Corwyn]

Jesus was a historical figure known to exist.


ONLY if you live in Fundie land! There are 2 contemporary references to Jesus. BUT the work of both Josephus and Tacitus were KNOWN to have been changed by early christians to try to provide primary sources for Christ's "existence". One has been absolutely proven to be a forgery. The other is very questionable. You have to do better than this. AND even if you were to accept these as accurate statements. All they actually say is (this is short hand) There are some people running around saying that this guy jesus was god, but he died.
WOW, That's just powerful evidence. I hope you don't sit on any jury anytime soon. Further, 1000s of people are walking around RIGHT NOW within 10 miles of where ever you are (statistically) who BELIEVE that they were kidnapped by aliens. They FAR out number by any account the number of followers of this jesus fellow. Why don't you believe them?


Consider the change in all of the disciples who went into hiding when Christ was crucified but then preached about him, and the way of Salvation. Each of these, with the exception of John who died in exile, died horrible deaths. Why would they suffer so, along with so many others, for a false faith. The scientific method considers evidence so please explain the change in the disciples using science.
Well, those same UFO abductees, their lives have changed too, why aren't you joining their cult??????

Don't all the books in North Korea attest to the divine origins of Kim Jong Il-- his father was a god-- all the books say so... and Kim Jong Il has done miracles-- all those millions of people can't be wrong-- can they?
The number of KJI followers outnumber jesus' followers for the first 300 years combined by something like 300 to one.
North Koreans starve to death by the 100,000s year in year out. There have even been rumors of cannibalism in some parts of N K because people are starving. All so KJI could spend $300,000 a year on Cognac. All these people are suffering horribly in far greater numbers than the few straggly sheppard you prostrate yourself to blindly.

And the Mormons have a burning in the bosom giving them an "inner knowingness" that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, that F8king your 12 year old daughters or selling them to 40 year old cousins is a good thing, and the messages and the souls of humans are brought to earth from another planet by ufos (YEP -Look it up that's what Mormons believe).

Scientology tell you the proof is that their program works-- and Tom Cruise and John Travolta are amazingly successful. So why are you not signing up?

Do you have any evidence beyond the usual confirmation bias/delusional type stuff? Anything measurable to prove that consciousness - qi or any other - can exist outside a body...(and where exactly is it in the body while you are alive) and one of those consciousness is named "Jesus"?
Because if not, isn't it the same as all the woo proffered here... Everyone thinks they have the true woo. I don't understand why you think Christianity or qi is more likely to be true than the ones I listed above or the myriad of other faiths dreamed up by scared, mentally ill people who were either afraid to face reality or wanted power over others who were. Why we should give your "evidence" more weight than all similar "evidence" presented for different beliefs???


Scientific evidence is not always accurate and sometimes what was once taken as gospel is proven to be incorrect as technology advances.
Since you quote science as being the end all please explain to me how a bumble bee can fly and a hummingbird can hover.

NO that's not what I said that's what you think I said. Science is not AN answer! Science is a METHOD to examine the physical world and the phenomenon in it! It is a way of examining, testing and verifying hypothesis which gives us conclusions - to the best of our current understanding about how the world
- THE ACTUAL world - works. Has it made mistakes? Absolutely - But here is the thing about science and what separates it from your delusions! IT is EXACTLY the same METHOD that proves a thing that can also disprove a thing with new information!

Unlike the jewish zombie or the universal force of chi. Science makes claims that can be tested, verified and falsified. I don't need to have special powers, or a certain level of open mindedness to do the math that tells me how planes fly or a rockets trajectory or how this computer interprets a bunch of zeros and 1s into the picture you see and the text you read. I don't have to abandon reason for madness to see the majic jujjuu bead.

If you can't explain these two examples of nature then how can you say without reservation that QI does not exist?

That's pretty FUNNY - did you just cut and paste this ignorance from
www.doesgodexist.com or some other IDiot site? I did not study aerodynamics and my calc skills are considerably rusty. Add to that the fact that even if I posted the calculations for you it would be just a waist of my time - BUT here is a hint!

There are these big buildings - virtually EVERY town has one - they are just full and I mean wall to wall (the horror) of these things called - are you ready - BOOKS. These things, they actually EXPLAIN how things REALLY work! Where you can go out and replicate them and find independent sources all by your self, instead of taking the word of some poorly written fiction by a tribe of sheepherders from 2000 years ago or some fat man who is trying to take your cash while diddling your children.

You can also be lazy and try GOOGLE
or click here www.physorg.com/news4688.html

Questions are regarding his claim to divinity. Why do people who opt to believe have to be "nutters".

Well let me see -
The belief that a cosmic jewish zombie who was his own father and was born by raping his mother can make you live for ever, if you symbolically eat his flesh and drink his blood. Then telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in all humanity because of a rib that turned into a woman was convinced by talking to a snake who has no ears or vocal chords to eat from a magical tree - YEA Now that you've explained it, it makes perfect rational sense to me.

Oh and we won't even get into the whole ethical and moral - or should I say lack there of - quandary of holding someone responsible for other peoples misdeeds.


Now back to Qi for a minute.
The more you read this stuff, the more you realize that Qi proponents and perpetual motion machine crack pots are saying exactly the same nonsense.
The only difference is the deliery system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

which actually makes perpetual motion crackpots one step above qi because at least they have an explanation of how the power is created, stored and delivered.

Since qi proponents claim that qi can effect the REAL physical world, can be used to kill people etc. It has to have a PHYSICAL presence, weight, mass etc. It also HAS to reside somewhere in the human body or the human body HAS to have some physical structure which can retreive, store and conduct said energy?

Simple questions? What is this mechanism? what is the physical structure and conductor that conveys this energy? How is it that this energy has no negative effect on the human body? Why can we not see, touch or measure this response in the human body? Why can we not see touch or measure this "energy" by any instrument known to man though any independent means. Much like the non-sense that comes from ESP proponents, Ghost hunters, fortune tellers, Yuri Geller
Benny Hinn and Pat Robertson.

[Kemo Martin]

Jesus was a historical figure known to exist. Questions are regarding his claim to divinity. Why do people who opt to believe have to be "nutters". Consider the change in all of the disciples who went into hiding when Christ was crucified but then preached about him, and the way of Salvation. Each of these, with the exception of John who died in exile, died horrible deaths. Why would they suffer so, along with so many others, for a false faith. The scientific method considers evidence so please explain the change in the disciples using science.

Scientific evidence is not always accurate and sometimes what was once taken as gospel is proven to be incorrect as technology advances.

Since you quote science as being the end all please explain to me how a bumble bee can fly and a hummingbird can hover. If you can't explain these two examples of nature then how can you say without reservation that QI does not exist?

WOW, I like your thinking......:D


Romans 1 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5015379)
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.:D

[Sihing73]

Hello Corwyn,

You seem to have a lot of negativity directed towards the subject of Jesus and this is a sad thing. I did find the article relating to the Hummingbird of interest and it does provoke thought. However the very uniqueness of the Hummingbird and its structure would lead me to bolster my faith rather than remove it. How likely is it that Evolution or Chance would result in the unique features which enable the Hummingbrid to fly and hover?

For anyone interested the below links point to some sites with interesting points regarding the Bible and the proof provided by Science.

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn53/bibletrue.htm

http://www.geocities.com/worldview_3/science.html

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

You are welcome to make up your own mind, just as those who wish to believe are welcome to make up their own mind as well.

[Corwyn]

It always amazes me to no end how the woo, especially the fundie kind, seem to believe that those who criticize their belief just need to know more. (more like need to be brainwashed more)

News flash - I'll bet you dollars to donuts that I KNOW FAR more about the history and text of the faith you profess to follow than you do.

As for my negativity towards jesus - it is at about the same level as yours was yesterday about the pink flying unicorn, the orbiting tea pot or his wholyness the flying spaghetti monster. HOW does one have positive or negative feelings about a person that one knows does not exist unless one is delusional?

It is about the people who hide their willful and total ignorance of the world, the things they CLAIM they believe and the display of hatred and bigotry and intolerance towards all others with and for no other excuse than a poorly written fairy tale.


As to your links - I don't expect you to understand, after all the intellectual dishonesty, the lack of character, and the emotional crippling required to even post such links as some kind of evidence for anything other than an example of metal disorder precludes you from understanding the joke that is these links.

But FYI _ even rabid foaming at the mouth Intelligent Designers like Behe have recognised that using such arguments accomplishes nothing but making them look like the fools you are. You might want to catch up.


That bats are birds ( I guess jesus or daddy had senile moment ha?)
Lev 11:13/19. Yes I've heard the xian apologists explain how this just means creatures with wings, bu then obviously your fairy jewish zombie isn't omnipotent as he would have KNOWN that humans would invent Linnean classification and know that bats are not birds
So now you have to pick he's either not all knowing or his not all powerful!
Quick run for the lithium.

Mosquitoes and Vampire Bats along with tape worms were all herbivores
Gen 1:30 :rolleyes: By the way if there was jewish zombie god all he would have to do is turn these ****ED mosquito's back to being herbivores and I'd believe. :D

It is funny how this little creation of your gods has caused the untold suffering of more humans than just about everything else combined and he, you, the devil, - NONE of you take credit for it:D Oversight I guess:rolleyes:

"god" displaying his COMPLETE understanding of genetics and procreation
(or is this one of those things that again shows your gods lack of omnipotence AND omniscience ... at the same time?) Because as EVERYONE knows the way you get striped goats is by putting striped sticks in the water they drink :eek:
Gen 30:38


Then there are parts where your god outright lies -
Jos1:3-5 (See Ex.33:2; Dt.7:1, 7:24, 9:4-6, 31:3-7; Jos.1:1-5, 3:10, 17:17-18, 21:41-43) directly contradicts Jos.15:63, 16:10, 17:12-13, Jg.1:21, 1:27, 3:1-5
So your blood thirsty racist bigot fairy can't even keep his sh8 straight in one lousy human book.

Back to the science for a minute
Jos. 10:13 the SUN STOOD STILL yea that's really scientifical there :eek:

We won't even get into details about why your All LOVE fairy granted this special dispensation of reality - clue has to do with genocide and murder of the highest order.


Again to even contemplate such nonsense as reality shows a complete disregard for intellectual honesty and a perfect example of the fundie lying for jebus crowd. There is no point in arguing with someone who bothers to post such stupidity.

The only thing it proves and is useful for is to show that people like this are
just like the Klan, AL qaeda, the Taliban or the neo nazis

I knew this from the beginning and I don't post in threads like this to convince the afflicted, but rather to
a) show people the thinking process behind bigotry
b) try to stem some of the tide of the one sided idiocy.
c) and point out that when you wonder what kind of people it takes to
fly planes into building or want someone beheaded because they allowed a group of kids to give the wrong name to a bear all you have to do is look
at this post and understand that the only thing preventing the same things happening here is a few rules of law.

[Daniel09]

You must know my father. He grew up preached to about christianity, under his parents hopes that he'd become a minister. He's an atheist now, though he tells me that even that doesn't make sense, because atheism is not a religion nor something that can be followed, thus it technically does not exist (or something like that. He's a much better debater than I am). I did have more to say, but I can't think of it, so I'll end it here.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It always amazes me to no end how the woo, especially the fundie kind, seem to believe that those who criticize their belief just need to know more. (more like need to be brainwashed more)

News flash - I'll bet you dollars to donuts that I KNOW FAR more about the history and text of the faith you profess to follow than you do.

As for my negativity towards jesus - it is at about the same level as yours was yesterday about the pink flying unicorn, the orbiting tea pot or his wholyness the flying spaghetti monster. HOW does one have positive or negative feelings about a person that one knows does not exist unless one is delusional?

It is about the people who hide their willful and total ignorance of the world, the things they CLAIM they believe and the display of hatred and bigotry and intolerance towards all others with and for no other excuse than a poorly written fairy tale.


As to your links - I don't expect you to understand, after all the intellectual dishonesty, the lack of character, and the emotional crippling required to even post such links as some kind of evidence for anything other than an example of metal disorder precludes you from understanding the joke that is these links.

But FYI _ even rabid foaming at the mouth Intelligent Designers like Behe have recognised that using such arguments accomplishes nothing but making them look like the fools you are. You might want to catch up.


That bats are birds ( I guess jesus or daddy had senile moment ha?)
Lev 11:13/19. Yes I've heard the xian apologists explain how this just means creatures with wings, bu then obviously your fairy jewish zombie isn't omnipotent as he would have KNOWN that humans would invent Linnean classification and know that bats are not birds
So now you have to pick he's either not all knowing or his not all powerful!
Quick run for the lithium.

Mosquitoes and Vampire Bats along with tape worms were all herbivores
Gen 1:30 :rolleyes: By the way if there was jewish zombie god all he would have to do is turn these ****ED mosquito's back to being herbivores and I'd believe. :D

It is funny how this little creation of your gods has caused the untold suffering of more humans than just about everything else combined and he, you, the devil, - NONE of you take credit for it:D Oversight I guess:rolleyes:

"god" displaying his COMPLETE understanding of genetics and procreation
(or is this one of those things that again shows your gods lack of omnipotence AND omniscience ... at the same time?) Because as EVERYONE knows the way you get striped goats is by putting striped sticks in the water they drink :eek:
Gen 30:38


Then there are parts where your god outright lies -
Jos1:3-5 (See Ex.33:2; Dt.7:1, 7:24, 9:4-6, 31:3-7; Jos.1:1-5, 3:10, 17:17-18, 21:41-43) directly contradicts Jos.15:63, 16:10, 17:12-13, Jg.1:21, 1:27, 3:1-5
So your blood thirsty racist bigot fairy can't even keep his sh8 straight in one lousy human book.

Back to the science for a minute
Jos. 10:13 the SUN STOOD STILL yea that's really scientifical there :eek:

We won't even get into details about why your All LOVE fairy granted this special dispensation of reality - clue has to do with genocide and murder of the highest order.


Again to even contemplate such nonsense as reality shows a complete disregard for intellectual honesty and a perfect example of the fundie lying for jebus crowd. There is no point in arguing with someone who bothers to post such stupidity.

The only thing it proves and is useful for is to show that people like this are
just like the Klan, AL qaeda, the Taliban or the neo nazis

I knew this from the beginning and I don't post in threads like this to convince the afflicted, but rather to
a) show people the thinking process behind bigotry
b) try to stem some of the tide of the one sided idiocy.
c) and point out that when you wonder what kind of people it takes to
fly planes into building or want someone beheaded because they allowed a group of kids to give the wrong name to a bear all you have to do is look
at this post and understand that the only thing preventing the same things happening here is a few rules of law.

I always love how anti-religious people and religious fanatics "sound" the same.
:D

[Scott R. Brown]

believe what you like and create the world as you believe. it is a free will world.

as you like so you got.

Hi Hendrik,

I am curious just what these comments exactly mean to you?

If I believe I can fly without any artificial assistance, will I be able to fly? If this is what you mean, please show me someone who can fly without any artificial assistance. If I believe I can sit in the middle of a bonfire for 30 minutes without incurring any injury, will I be able to do this? If this is what you mean then please sit in the middle of a bonfire for 30 minutes for me and demonstrate to me the Truth of your comment?

If Qi exists then it exists whether anyone believes in it or not and whether it may be empirically demonstrated or not, but also, if Qi does not exist, then no matter how much we want to believe in it, IT STILL DOES NOT EXIST!!

We cannot MAKE something exist that does not actually exist. I do not understand how simply BELIEVING what strikes our fancy will create what is not actually possible! How does simply BELIEVING change what IS and what IS NOT??

If I have misunderstood your comment, please clear up my misunderstanding for me!

I always love how anti-religious people and religious fanatics "sound" the same.
:D

Hi sanjuro_ronin,

Very good point! A fanatic is a fanatic no matter what they believe in!

[Sihing73]

Hello,

Sorry guys but I am hardly fanatical about anything. I simply opted to respond to statements made by Corwyn in order to present another viewpoint. To be honest I do not care what he or anyone else thinks, however to claim someone who does not agree with your viewpoint is wrong or deluded is hardly the sign of an superior inteligence.

Anyhow, saying something does not make it true nor false, nor does belief in something. As to Chi, it is an interesting subject and there are those capable of some extraordinary feats attributed to CHI developement. Suffice it to say that Science does not have all of the answers and it can be argued that neither does religion. Faith is the deciding factor in many things. How does one perform a sucessful firewalk without buring the feet, I have never done this, nor am I inclined to do so ;), however I am sure that the mind and ones faith\belief would play an important role. Is this CHI? I am not sure but it shows the ability of man to overcome many things.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hello,

Sorry guys but I am hardly fanatical about anything. I simply opted to respond to statements made by Corwyn in order to present another viewpoint. To be honest I do not care what he or anyone else thinks, however to claim someone who does not agree with your viewpoint is wrong or deluded is hardly the sign of an superior inteligence.

Anyhow, saying something does not make it true nor false, nor does belief in something. As to Chi, it is an interesting subject and there are those capable of some extraordinary feats attributed to CHI developement. Suffice it to say that Science does not have all of the answers and it can be argued that neither does religion. Faith is the deciding factor in many things. How does one perform a sucessful firewalk without buring the feet, I have never done this, nor am I inclined to do so ;), however I am sure that the mind and ones faith\belief would play an important role. Is this CHI? I am not sure but it shows the ability of man to overcome many things.

Actually, it was a blanket-statement, I don't think either of you are "fanatics" in your respective beliefs, it was just a comment on how the skeptic and the believer are more a like than they (usually) care to admit.

[cjurakpt]

look guys - it's being made much more complicated than it has to be:

the human body is made up of a variety of different processes (e.g. - heart rate; respiration; endocrine function; cellular metabolism; neural firing; etc.); all of these processes generate one or more of the following by-products; electrical signals, CO2, heat, motion; each of these processes can be examined individually, but they also need to be understood in context of the whole, in terms of how their interrelationships effects the human organism; some of these processes are easily discernable by the human senses as such: breathing, heart beat, connective tissue tension; others are not, but are obviously equally important (endocrine function, neurotransmitter function, cellular function);

the same exact thing can be said for the environment within which the human organism works;

when you have a somewhat reductionist approach such as is the case with so-called "western" science, the idea is to break things down to their component parts and examine each in turn in order to understand how the whole works; as such, science has developed tools by which smaller and smaller things can be observed; this makes it relatively more objective

another approach is to take a top down perspective - this way of looking at things is predicated on pattern recognition and to a large extent intuitive understanding or relatively more subjective; when you are trying to understand the whole as such, there are many individual parts that you won't observe directly; one way of encompassing the functional interrelationship of all these disparate entities, is to derive a conceptual framework that allows for a great deal of variability and individual interpretation; "qi" is one such conceptual metaphor: it is a system that allows for generally organized qualitative analysis to take place when assessing the overall functional state of the human organism in the environment within which it functions

as such, there is no "thing" to find, discover, demonstrate, test or even believe "in"; "qi" is not an independent entity like heat, electricity, motion, fluid flow, etc. - if it were, it would have it's own unique quality/ies that could not be explanined by other types of sensations - if you feel warmth coming from a "qi master", then that's what you feel: heat, not "qi"; at the same time, from the perspective of the metaphor, these phenomena are all aspects of the descriptor "qi", because they are all preceeded by functional relationships in the body

so guys, it's a meataphorical descriptor that was derived by a culture that didn't have the technological capacity to look at things under a microscope -and being limited in their ability to directly observe minute processes, they needed to rely on macro observation - and did a darn good job of it as well!

as for "God" - he needs to pack his bags and go on a loooong vacation - in the history of mankind, the belief in a "God" has been been the one most available as a justification for why people persecute and kill each other; if "God" went away, that stuff would probably still exist, but at least we'd be honest about why we treat each other so miserably...and quoting some old book that has been altered by each subsequent generation to suit its political agenda in order to justify this absurd belief system is so blatantly idiotic that it really makes you wonder how we managed to survive this long as a species...I mean, the fact alone that thousands of people march in the streets calling for the death of someone who allowed her students to name their teddy bear after some guy who had hallucinations 1,000 years ago is more than enough justification for wiping out humanity and starting over again...

[cjurakpt]

How likely is it that Evolution or Chance would result in the unique features which enable the Hummingbrid to fly and hover?
only slightly more likely then the possibility of someone walking on water, changing water into wine and otherwise defying the laws of physics; it's so absurd that you almost wonder if someone, oh, I don't know, MADE IT UP just to make their particular belief system sound more engrossing...:rolleyes:


and BTW, its because people's tiny brains can't handle that chance is exactly what resulted in complex organisms forming and the universe working and people dying randomly everyday that they invented "God" as a means of reassuring them that "someone" out there is really in control and will make everything right in the end; face it: you're on your own, there is no big grandaddy in the sky, there's no guarantee you'll live another second after reading this and in general there's not much you can do to control most of what goes on around you; you can either accept this and realize the inherently chaotic nature of life, or not and go on believing that "god" exists and gives a crap about each and every living thing in the universe, so much so that he wants you to only eat certain foods on certain days, wear your clothing just so, and KILL anyone who suggests that he doesn't actually exist...

[Daniel09]

I understand where you're coming from and honestly, I don't fear death at all. I'd prefer to postpone it, but I don't fear it. One thing I want to comment on is your term "tiny brain." I know this was probably just a figure of speach, but I'm naive and want to say that the brain is actually quite big, we just haven't unlocked its potential. Don't take me too seriously though. I want to bike ride in 30 degree weather.:D

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Sihing73,

Please do not misunderstand my agreement with sanjuro_ronin as well. A well stated argument does not reflect fanaticism. It reflects a well thought out opinion. It is intolerance with competing views that is a sign of fanaticism.

The fanatic here is clearly Corwyn. He is unable to make his point without ridiculing those with whom he disagrees. This is a characteristic of someone who is so confined by his own worldview he is unable to behave with even rudimentary courtesy. His attitude, not the points of his argument reveal, his fanaticism.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have the best of both worlds !
I am a critical believer !!

LOL !

I believe and because I do, I critique, I challenge, I dispute.
I am open to the notion that there is Qi ( or God if you wanna dwell on that) and open to the notion that there isn't.

Do I need proof?
Of course.
Do I realize that we may not be able to prove it yet?
Of course.
Di I care that much either way?
Of course, but not so much to be closed minded about ANY and ALL posibilities.

Its called being smart enough to know that we aren't that smart.

:D

[Kemo Martin]

QiRead this (http://www.medicalacupuncture.com/aama_marf/journal/vol13_1/article7.html)
CONCLUSION
The human body generates electrical energy through organic action, cellular respiration, currents of injury, and piezoelectrical activity. These subtle currents form fields of force, the condensations of which form the charted meridian system. Researchers have placed the sub- strate of the meridians variously in the glial cells, fascial network, interstitial spaces, and blood vessels. Subtle electrical charges can migrate long distances in the body through semi-conduction, which passes tiny electrical charges through orderly molecular matrices. Variations in energy generation and currents of injury tend to form imbalances in ionic positive and negative charges in the body, which are associated with pain and disease. The therapeutic effects of acupuncture come from its ability to locally or distally discharge these potential differences, or otherwise help bring about optimal charge conditions of the body. Acupuncture points have greater electrical conductivity than surrounding tissues. Varieties of metals used together in the manufacture of acupuncture needles create thermocouple effects for stronger stimulation of acupoints. The body's energy systems are polarized, with the trunk and head tending to be more electropositive and the extremities electronegative. Electrostimulation that follows these natural polarities, and significantly increases conductivity between the electrodes, will tend to be more clinically effective. Non-needle microcurrent stimulation, especially when polarized to follow the body's natural polarization, can be a highly effective meridian-balancing method.



As far as my God:D
Jesus the comforter (http://jesusthecomforter.com/)

I always thought it was funny
Once, when I crashed my super sport motorcycle on the freeway
70mph into the back corner of a stalled car
(no helmet cut off t-shirt, shorts)
the bike basically disintegrated
my KF teacher said I blocked it with my "CHI"
I thanked GOD






I think its sad that even those who believe even in the same god, whichever one it may be, can't even agree or get along.:(



Matt 7 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=4404251)
[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:


John 6 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=4786205)
[44] No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
[65] And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.:cool:

Matt 12 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=4426641)
[38] Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
[39] But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas::eek:

[Sihing73]

As far as my God:D
Jesus the comforter (http://jesusthecomforter.com/)

I always thought it was funny
Once, when I crashed my super sport motorcycle on the freeway
70mph into the back corner of a stalled car
(no helmet cut off t-shirt, shorts)
the bike basically disintegrated
my KF teacher said I blocked it with my "CHI"
I thanked GOD

I think its sad that even those who believe even in the same god, whichever one it may be, can't even agree or get along.:(

I would have thanks GOD as well. Glad you're still here.

It is sad but expected as organized religion always seems to end up focused on man rather than heaven.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Organized religion is a plague on people.
I am all for faith and religion, but what man has made of the word ( any word, take your pick) has been horrific.

[Sihing73]

Organized religion is a plague on people.
I am all for faith and religion, but what man has made of the word ( any word, take your pick) has been horrific.

Organized religion seems to become more of a political force rather than a Godly force. It is a shame that so many try to be politically correct and as a result ignore the teachings of whatever their respective religion may be. Islam is not the fanatical hate based religion that many int he West have come to believe. Nor is someone who calls themselves Christian always a good example of what the Bible teaches. Throughout history many has chosen which parts of the Bible, or other Holy Books, they wish to accept. As long as it supports them it is okay. For me it is pretty simple; if you claim to be a Christian and believe the Bible to be the inspired Word then you got to accept it all even when it does not agree with your personal view. As I often say it does not matter what I say, what matters is what the Bible says, and I am not a very good example of a Christian. I also do not believe that it is my responsibility to try and convert anyone else. If asked I will state my beliefs but it is up to the Holy Spirit to convict that person, if that is meant to be. Too often we get into needless arguments which take the focus off of God and onto ourselves. Everyone has the right to believe what they wish and all should be true to their own convicitions.

As to CHI or QI there are too many strange things which can not be explained simply for me to say for a certaintity that it does or does not exist. Personally, I feel that the human body is an amazing machine and we are learning more about it each day. It would not surprise me that something like Chi exists and can be focused with the right training. Of course, Chi could be a name for something else and we may all be on the same page but looking at different parts of the whole.

[Zenshiite]

As a Muslim it's hard for me to take seriously anyone calling Islam an "organized religion." I usually understand "organized religion" as there being some sort of heirarchy in matters of religion where someone says what is and is not of the religion and that's what you've got. Islam tends to agree on some fundamental tenets, but I'd say we are far from organized.

Take this situation with Sudan and the teddy bear. I find no insult in that teddy bear being named Muhammad at all, neither did the little boy Muhammad that named his bear after himself. Neither do the majority of Muslims in the world. Then you've got a few very vocal rabble rousers going into the streets shouting for death plus the Sudanese government biting their thumbs at the West by even charging and convicting this woman of a "crime." Then you get not only the UK's disapproval, but the disapproval of UK Muslims and Muslim organizations. Religion ain't the problem, humanity is the problem. If humanity actually practiced the moral and ethical guidelines of its religions the world would be a whole hell of alot better. As it is, we've got a bunch of religious hypocrites rousing the rabble over trivial issues to take their minds off the greater issues at hand. Like the tyrannies of various governments of this world.

As for Qi, I wonder if the scientifically biased out there aren't maybe jumping the gun just a little bit on declaring its none existence. There are a number of theories and hypotheses out there that are currently NOT provable or falsifiable in anyway that scientists have almost complete faith in. Dark matter, for one. Dark matter is what scientists say accounts for the relative lack of mass in correlation to the gravity of the universe... it's equally as plausible as saying Qi holds it all together, or God's will... or that dark matter and Qi are the same thing and more over... Qi is the Divine Breath of God in the first place. Why is it a scientist can say "we think dark matter is the answer to this conundrum" and it is assumed that at some piont we'll be scientifically, technically and intellectually advanced enough to test, falsify and prove dark matter even exists but the same cannot be said for Qi? Skeptics that aren't skeptical of their own beliefs are nothing short of the worst of hypocrites.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The issue with Qi, liek I mentioned before, is that even those that "believe" in it don't agree on what it is.

That truly is the first step.

[Drake]

Jesus was Hung Sing, right Frank? :D

As for qi... who knows? Can't we just admit not having a full grasp of the logic behind it just yet?

[Sihing73]

Religion ain't the problem, humanity is the problem. If humanity actually practiced the moral and ethical guidelines of its religions the world would be a whole hell of alot better. As it is, we've got a bunch of religious hypocrites rousing the rabble over trivial issues to take their minds off the greater issues at hand. Like the tyrannies of various governments of this world.

I agree wholeheartedly that man\humanity is the problem. Also, it is always the small vocal minority that seem to get all of the attention. I have friends who are Jewish, Chinese, Muslim, Black, White etc. While everyone may have their own outlook, we seem to be able to disucss things like adults with mutual respect. However, when one gets involved with "certain" religious or non\anti religious types discussion goes out the window. I find it funny how so many have to overtalk others or resort to put downs in order to get their point across.

I practice Pekiti Tirsia in addition to Wing Chun and PT comes from a region with heavy Islamic influences. My friend and training partner is a Black\African America Muslim and I am a White Christian. We have been friends for over 20 years and while we have had some interesting interactions we each give the other respect. Seems like the so called leaders of religious groups should be able to do the same.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Religion has always been an excuse, rarely a reason, for the crap that happens.
Fact is, individuals coexist jut fine, its the groups and organizations that cause crap.

[Sihing73]

Religion has always been an excuse, rarely a reason, for the crap that happens.
Fact is, individuals coexist jut fine, its the groups and organizations that cause crap.

Again I agree, look at Wing Chun, the various "organizations/lineages" argue over everything. Funny how many "individuals" can meet up and discuss differences civily. When you take ego and agenda out of it many so called differences become minor indeed.

[SouthernTiger]

Religion has always been an excuse, rarely a reason, for the crap that happens.
Fact is, individuals coexist jut fine, its the groups and organizations that cause crap.

Some people on this thread seeem to be personifying an "organization". An organization is a social and intellectual construct that only "exists" because of people. So, I am confused about your statement that people coexist just fine, when in actuality, many times they dont. And people dont need a reason (like religion) to hate on and kill others.

Many interesting (and depressing) social psychology studies show that people placed in a room will almost immediately start creating "teams" and "sides". Therfore the problem is with people....not religion or organizations. True religion seeks to reform the person and deal with our lesser nature.

Unfortunetly, yes, SOME organizations and religions are a plague. Not ALL.

Just food for thought I guess...

-Blake

[sanjuro_ronin]

Some people on this thread seeem to be personifying an "organization". An organization is a social and intellectual construct that only "exists" because of people. So, I am confused about your statement that people coexist just fine, when in actuality, many times they dont. And people dont need a reason (like religion) to hate on and kill others.

Many interesting (and depressing) social psychology studies show that people placed in a room will almost immediately start creating "teams" and "sides". Therfore the problem is with people....not religion or organizations. True religion seeks to reform the person and deal with our lesser nature.

Unfortunetly, yes, SOME organizations and religions are a plague. Not ALL.

Just food for thought I guess...

-Blake

I said INDIVDUALS coexist just fine, not people.

[SouthernTiger]

I said INDIVDUALS coexist just fine, not people.

sanjuro_ronin, I am confused.

Are not individuals "CO-exiting" referred to as people? We may be playing with semantics rather than the meat of the discussion, do you agree?

Do you disagree with my last post then?

I am interested in your take on this...

Thanks

-Blake

[sanjuro_ronin]

sanjuro_ronin, I am confused.

Are not individuals "CO-exiting" referred to as people? We may be playing with semantics rather than the meat of the discussion, do you agree?

Do you disagree with my last post then?

I am interested in your take on this...

Thanks

-Blake

I am saying that it is much easier for you and I, for example, to coexist if we have different beliefs, than it would be for a group of peoples to do so.

[Corwyn]

Sihing73
To be honest I do not care what he or anyone else thinks, however to claim someone who does not agree with your viewpoint is wrong or deluded is hardly the sign of an superior inteligence. Anyhow, saying something does not make it true nor false, nor does belief in something.

How does one perform a sucessful firewalk without buring the feet, I have never done this, nor am I inclined to do so , however I am sure that the mind and ones faith\belief would play an important role. Is this CHI? I am not sure but it shows the ability of man to overcome many things.

Sanjuro Ronin
I always love how anti-religious people and religious fanatics "sound" the same.

Please do not misunderstand my agreement with sanjuro_ronin as well. A well stated argument does not reflect fanaticism. It reflects a well thought out opinion. It is intolerance with competing views that is a sign of fanaticism.


Brown
The fanatic here is clearly Corwyn. He is unable to make his point without ridiculing those with whom he disagrees. This is a characteristic of someone who is so confined by his own worldview he is unable to behave with even rudimentary courtesy. His attitude, not the points of his argument reveal, his fanaticism



Sorry I've been busy, but reading the responses I was trying to come up with a point by point but realized that all the comments suffer from the identical unsound thinking that has crept into modern though – namely the current PC police meme that all ideas should have equal time ‘cause we have to have an “open mind”. Well you may not like it, and you may THINK it’s rude but as Sihing73 so eloquently put it saying something does not make it true. Not all ideas are equal and they most certainly do not merit equal time.

This whole notions stems I think, from peoples misbelieve that the opposite of a “closed mind” – fairly well defines, but very erroneously applied by C R Brown to my post - is an open mind. This is fallacious! Just as a “closed minded” fanatic is unwilling to entertain new ideas even when it has merit an “open minded” fanatic is willing to entertain ANY idea and give it equal weight without examination of it’s merits.

A perfect example of this “open mind” is the posts by Sihing73, - he gives equal credence to a site (an idea) which criticizes science (The Theory of Evolution) on the basis that it doesn’t have all the answers to every single question one can possibly think of, so it must be wrong. Then jumps to a totally unsupported assertion that this must mean the bible is right. At the same time he posts another link that tries to use the SAME science he denies in the first link to justify why his unsupported assertion (that the bible is right) is the ONLY possible answer. Do you not see the moral hypocrisy or the logical fallacy in this???????

Sihing wrote saying something does not make it true. What I find INCREDIBLY ironic about this statement in the light of these posts is that if you weren’t so busy lecturing me about my manners and took a moment you’d recognize that this is EXACTLY and the ONLY thing I’ve been saying. IF I am "fanatical" about anything it's evidence. That sihings assertion that jesus was real or that the bible is the innerant word of some sky fairy, or that just because you claim to feel the incredible powers of chi saying something does not make it true. You all made these unsupported assertion, I asked for proof, and you response in nutshell was “because we say so”. I can present all the evidence that the bible is a pile of rubish. I can provide all the evidence that qi can not possibly exist based on the laws of physics as described by any post so far, Yet I highly doubt that I will get anyone to even consider second guessing their belief in these things much less change anyones mind here.

Asking for evidence and demanding that seemingly incredible claims have some merit backed up by EVIDENCE is neither a sign or fanaticism or intolerance. It is a sign of a critical mind and it’s what rational people use to decide what they accept as reality. Much like what Brown did when he questioned Hendriks solipsism. One could easily interpret his incredulity towards his baseless assertion as ridicule too. It just depends on the colour shades you’re wearing on the day.

You made a claim that my response to an opposing argument was fanatic.
BUT – No argument was ever made! There was an assertion made and that is NOT the same thing! Before we can have a “civil” discussion of opposing ideas you must at least understand the difference and the process by which these two things are derived. Now as Hindrik pointed out, one CAN believe what ever one wants. However, when one asserts those beliefs as fact, or an explanation to the most complex questions without evidence, and that explanation flies in the face of LITERALLY every field of scientific endeavor known to man then one should not be surprised if they receive ridicule because they are being ridiculous. Sorry live with it.

Finally – I just can’t let this one go because it’s just SO classic –
however to claim someone who does not agree with your viewpoint is wrong or deluded is hardly the sign of an superior inteligence.

I really don’t mean this to be a flame, but there is just no other way to make this example other then pointing out the obvious contradictions in your thinking process. And note that I am just drawing this from the 2 posts you made so I might be wrong and you just didn’t have enough coffee or something)
I claim that you are wrong because I DO have a point of view based on EVIDENCE. I've made an assertion, presented evidence and made a conclusion - THAT is an arument. You have NO point of view because you are being intellectually lazy or willfully dishonest. What do I mean by this? You CLAIM to believe in god (within this post) because you heard some one make a false assertion that Hummingbirds and Bumble Bees according to science shouldn’t be able to fly so god must exist and evolution can’t be true. Then a few posts later you don’t know how people do fire walking so surely qi MUST be true! You willfully ignore or refuse to take the simplest steps to think rationally. Forget going to school or the library for books. You’re so busy looking to the magic fairies and the pixie dust for everything you can’t bother to click a link to google. This kind of laziness is worthy of nothing less than ridicule.

Anyway I’ve rambled on long enough, and I have the distinct feeling that this has been very much like throwing pearls to swine. Besides, it’s time to go to class.
I hear sifu is going to teach us how to turn into smoke and walk through walls.

[Hendrik]

Much like what Brown did when he questioned Hendriks solipsism. One could easily interpret his incredulity towards his baseless assertion as ridicule too.
Now as Hindrik pointed out, one CAN believe what ever one wants..


1, What I presen is not baseless,

However, Looking at those unfriendly questions, I just let the research data comes out via the medical community. I am not going to change the world and not intended to.


2, one Can believe what ever one wants because one often not aware of what is one doing.


3, one needs to be able to know the different between what is fact and what is just a fantasy.




IE: one could using the rule of every phone must have a wire otherwise it is not phone. So, if one have a Cell phone and using it. while the other is keeping wanting to prove this or that under thier believe of if there is no wire it cant be a phone...etc. What is the point to argue?

Certainly, A Cell phone is a Cell phone, it is high tech. it is not a plastic make believe toy from Toy R US. So, one needs to have the technology to differentiate between a make believe fantasy cell phone and a real cell phone.



As for Qi, silence, prana....

1, if one have never practice Qi cultiavation for more then 3 months and 2 hours per day UNDER a Qualified teacher and got the Zhen Qi evoke to the point of at least one could heat up the Dan Die as will, to be real honest, what to talk about? one just have no clue. one could argue critical thinking or this thinking and that thinking what is that ? how to be critical thinking about the taste of an orange without even have smell an orange?

2, If one have never practice prayer or meditation until one could enter silence or alpha at will with a qualified teacher. also, forget about it. the mind just doesnt know what is going on and what to talk about?


IMHHHO. so, why wasting life. what to proof? those who has Qi cultivate could use it for thier health to the minimum. Those who has thier prayer or silence develop always living in the peace.

as for those have never tasted what is going on why argue, try it and see for yourself what it is before typing a single word on a subject one have no clue.


I am just present a phenomenon of the nature.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Corwyn,

My criticism is not that you disagree with the ideas of others, but with the insults you manage to insert into your argument. Ridicule reveals an emotional investment that negatively influences ones judgment. Emotionalism is the source of fanaticism. The fervent ridicule in your comments indicates an emotional attachment to your point of view. While it is healthy to be concerned about the fanaticism of others it is more important to be aware of your own fanaticisms. Let us be careful to avoid becoming what we most detest in others

As for my negativity towards jesus - it is at about the same level as yours was yesterday about the pink flying unicorn, the orbiting tea pot or his wholyness the flying spaghetti monster. HOW does one have positive or negative feelings about a person that one knows does not exist unless one is delusional?

It is about the people who hide their willful and total ignorance of the world, the things they CLAIM they believe and the display of hatred and bigotry and intolerance towards all others with and for no other excuse than a poorly written fairy tale.

I don't expect you to understand, after all the intellectual dishonesty, the lack of character, and the emotional crippling required to even post such links as some kind of evidence for anything other than an example of metal disorder precludes you from understanding the joke that is these links.

But FYI _ even rabid foaming at the mouth Intelligent Designers…

( I guess jesus or daddy had senile moment ha?)

By the way if there was jewish zombie god all he would have to do is turn these…

We won't even get into details about why your All LOVE fairy…

Again to even contemplate such nonsense as reality shows a complete disregard for intellectual honesty and a perfect example of the fundie lying for jebus crowd. There is no point in arguing with someone who bothers to post such stupidity.

The manner in which you communicate yourself makes you appear just as fervent in your purpose as those with whom you criticize. While you justify your fanaticism by convincing yourself you have good reason for it, you seem to fail to consider that “ the Klan, AL qaeda, the Taliban or the neo Nazis” all believe they have good reasons for their views as well. They would make the same arguments that you do, that is, use ridicule and errors of reasoning to support their belief in their superior understanding. They would say THEY understand better than you. They would say THEY are the ones who know how to reason better than you. To set yourself apart and appear more reasonable it would be more appropriate to use reasoned argument absent ridicule to make your points.

Your understanding of Christian history and the Christian faith is very poor. As with most people who have a fanatical aversion to Christianity you focus only on the aspects of the religion that demonstrate your point and avoid evidence that conflicts with your preconceived negative conclusions. If you truly had the superior and impartial reasoning abilities you profess you would properly educate yourself on the topic before you take it apart piece meal and out of context with the lessons it teaches.

Christianity would not have survived for 2,000 years if it did not provide a benefit for humans. Whether this meets with your approval or not does not detract from the benefits received by millions of people. That does not mean Christianity does not have flaws, nothing is perfect. No one can deny that many versions of Christianity have some narrow-minded beliefs and attitudes; however these qualities are characteristics of Mankind and not Christianity. Every organization has a tendency to overextend its power; this is a universal characteristic of Mankind, NOT organizations or Christianity. This characteristic occurs no matter how intelligent or educated a person may be and occurs outside of religions as well as amongst those who consider themselves reasonable people.

The manner in which you have presented yourself makes you appear to be much less reasonable that you perceive yourself to be and detracts from your argument.

Your points may be made without derogatory comments.

[Scott R. Brown]

Much like what Brown did when he questioned Hendriks solipsism. One could easily interpret his incredulity towards his baseless assertion as ridicule too.
Now as Hindrik pointed out, one CAN believe what ever one wants..

My comment was intended to elicit an explanation from Hendrik about what the comment means to him and that is exactly what I asked. His comment is a platitude that is sometimes used but infrequently explained. I wanted to know what it means to him. I provided examples where this principle would not apply. This is NOT ridicule, it is using examples to illustrate a point.

[Hendrik]

Anyone here could share their experience on Qi cultivation? as how to cultivate and evoke the Zhen Qi....ect?

Peace

[Zenshiite]

I'm not even sure what you mean by "evoke" Qi in any form or aspect. Qi is just there, if you practice Qigong you will inevitably feel it circulating. It's not something you have to evoke, call upon, or force. It just is.

[Daniel09]

Don't expect to get any information here. Everyone seems to be very tied to the opinion that these things are only able to be taught in person. Thus, I would suggest you bide your time and try to find a teacher. It really is a good idea though, considering the internet is a dangerous place and many things people tell you may be false. Personal teaching is much more reliable.

I'm only 16 right now, so I'm not very experienced in many things, but if there's one thing I've learned in my time, it's that generally your elders know what they're talking about. It may not seem apparent in the state we're in now (state of being, not location...), but when we get older there are many things we want to do that we can't anymore. Thus, when I get out of school (college as well), I will get a good job and travel to where I want to go. The goals may not be quite tangible as of yet, but I plan on making them so as I find out what my future holds.

Eherm, I think I've gotten ahead of myself just typing all this. The future doesn't wait for those who are not ready. I still have a lot to prepare for.

[Hendrik]

I'm not even sure what you mean by "evoke" Qi in any form or aspect. Qi is just there, if you practice Qigong you will inevitably feel it circulating. It's not something you have to evoke, call upon, or force. It just is.

if it is not evoked what and how one circulate it?
and what is the purpose of circulation? what for?

i dont buy those -----It's not something you have to evoke, call upon, or force. It just is.--- type of story. those are fantasy. it reality when qi is evoke it could be heat or body oscilating motion or electrical current flow or light. type of sensation..ect
without these forget about it one dont know qigong. one might study qigong but that is not equal to know qi and thus dont know how to handle it.


as an analogy,
even wireless cell phone needs to be turn on. so nope not those toy r us fantasy phone.