Falun Gong

[magicfist]

I have been doing a type of chi gong for over a year called Falun Gong. It has really helped me out a lot in my life, and if anyone is interested I would recommend going to www.falundafa.org (http://www.falundafa.org)
On their website there are books and videos that can be downloaded for free. It combines buddhist and toaist principals with chi gong. I highly recommend it!

[origenx]

I've looked into FG, and honestly don't know enough about qigong, Buddhism and Taoism to say if ~70% of it is true or false. About ~20% I've heard similar stuff before and can agree with. Another 10% I'm very skeptical about, although I couldn't prove it's wrong.

If you know much about it, perhaps I could bounce my skepticisms off you...

[magicfist]

I see where your coming from. When I first started, I was extremely skeptical. After doing it myself and then talking to other people, I have completely changed my attitude. If I can help with any questions, please feel free to email me m854agic@aol.com

[dwid]

Falun gong is a cult, plain and simple.

_________________________________________
The way of the samurai is in desperateness. Ten men or more cannot kill such a man. Common sense will not accomplish great things. Simply become insane and desperate. - Hagakure

[cagey_vet]

sorry guys...
i have looked into this.
the propaganda spread by the chinese
government is not without some truth.

http://www.rickross.com/groups/falun.html

while i am CERTAINLY not a supporter of
chinese communism, i am not in support of
cults.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/fa_lun_gong/falun193.html
http://www.rickross.com/reference/fa_lun_gong/falun188.html
http://www.rickross.com/reference/fa_lun_gong/falun176.html

not that the two are related in any way, but:
i have also seen a mpeg clip of
li hongzhi teaching falun gong against
a background that reminds me much of
the graphics that heavens gate cult used to
use frequently.

be careful. chi cultivation is one thing.
cult affiliation is another.

[Kung Lek]

Hi-

While the falun gong organization may be culty, the chi kung the do is fairly simple and easy to learn.
Overall, the chi kung will not do you any harm but if you go for the "company line" then you are talking about something a bit different.

They do standard chi kung exercises such as Jam Jong (ZhangZhong/ Standing Post), Carry the Moon, Lift the Sky and many other very useful Chi Kung exercises.

They are however a political hot potato and have made many outrageous claims about the powers of Chi Kung in relation to acute illness and indeed it is true that people have refused medical treatment because of membership in the organization and have died from their maladies.

You do not need to be a member of a cult poli/religio group to get benefits from Chi Kung practice which can be found, learned and practiced outside these groups.

peace

Kung Lek

[origenx]

But this is all primarily lots of hearsay/rhetoric/propaganda/mudslinging. That doesn't impress me. I would like to hear actual factual misconduct or deception, or specific proven errors in the teachings. Anyone?

I've only heard mostly personal attacks on Li or his followers, but little specifically about the actual teachings or exercises. Lets hear about those.

[magicfist]

I want to say just a couple of things. First of all, I don not think all people should practice falun gong. If you have been doing a type of chi gong, tai chi, or whatever and are happy, then by all means stick with that. I can only speak from my own experience. I practiced falun gong on my own for over a year before ever meeting another falun gong practitioner. I have not had a single experience to hint that this could be a cult in any way. It has had only postive impacts on my life. There are no memberships, no money is exchanged, and you can do it without ever talking to another person who does falun gong. How could a cult exist without membership? As far as the Chinese media is concerened, you have to keep in mind that the Chinese government has a bad habbit of running people over with army tanks if they voice their opinion. The media in China is controlled by the government. The reason why the Chinese government bagain persecuiting falun gong, is because there are too many people who pratice it. Li Hongzhi lectured for two years to about 20,000 people. withen a few years, several million Chinese were practicing this chi gong. The Chinese government is afraid of anything that could motivate that many people for any reason. The only way someone can be unbiased is if they give it a try themselves. If you don't like it, don't do it. Simple as that. In all though, I'm just trying to say that this has helped my out a lot, and I just wanted to give my opinion. People have the right to their own opinion (even if it is totally opposite of mine).
www.falundafa.org (http://www.falundafa.org)
www.clearwisdom.org (http://www.clearwisdom.org)

[magicfist]

www.clearwisdom.net (http://www.clearwisdom.net)

[cagey_vet]

right, chi stuff is good
cult stuff is not good.

if you can separate the wheat
from the chaff then go ahead.

go to rick ross website and see
the posts from news agencies from
all over the world.
something about... oh i dunno...
some guy claiming to be the center
of the universe? so he ripped chi gung
exercises from someplace else....
i will look for quotes and news clippings
to set y'all straight.
cuz you sure arent doing it yourselves :P~

[cagey_vet]

ok here we go...
from none other than TIME magazine:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/articles/0,3266,28833-2,00.html

In an interview with TIME in April, Li spoke about the
joys of levitating and claimed that aliens have been
invading humanity since the beginning of this century.

TIME magazine is hardly in cahoots with
communist chinese officials, but...

hey, sounds like a kook that found something
cool to manipulate people with.

i thought different when it first happened.
like maybe something neat is brewing in the
world... freedom at last for our national chinese
brothers and sisters.

upon closer examination, i feel different.
like dangling a carrot in front of a running
horse.
only in this case, the horse gets to bite every
once in a while, blinded by whats ahead of him
enjoying the taste of the bite.

[premier]

http://forum.kungfuonline.com/1/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=126197291&f=340190991&m=5721985601

There's the conversation we had on this subject in kung fu forum few weeks ago.

[magicfist]

http://clearwisdom.net/eng/weekly_category/support.html

International organizations and governments don't support cults.

[Qiman]

I ordered their Video and instruction manuel.
They threw in a gallon of gas and a pack of matches for free!!!!!!!! ;) Just kidding of course.

The chi-gung sets are basic and nothing special. The writings of the leader are magical in nature and sound delusional to me. One example is he describes seeing a naked female (vision) while meditating. He explains that this is a visit by a demon attempting to hinder your progress.

This is a very new aspect of meditation to me. I know I have a lot to learn and look forward to the day that naked females visit me. :)

I am joking about that, it would scare the **** out of me to start having hallucinations.

[Iron_Monkey]

Does anyone know the definition of the word cult? It means;
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociol.a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.


so by definition, Christianity is a cult, Buddhism is a cult, Islam is a cult, Hinduism is a cult............Nice eh? It's not till the 6th definition of the word cult that you guys get your meaning when applied to Falun Gong. Does ANYONE HERE have FIRST HAND knowledge of Falun Gong that is unfavorable? Don't knock it till you try it. Let em be, if they are happy......

[GLW]

To the best of my knowledge, Heaven's Gate folks and those in Jonestown are happy as clams.

Those with David Koresh are a little hot under the collar, but when the smoke clears, they are probably happy too.

The Khmer Rouge was a nice organization following their leaders....the fields were nice.

[origenx]

cagey vet - actually, he may be right about the aliens. But, that's another story...

As far as levitating and other paranormal powers - I believe they may be possible but will really believe them when I see them. There was footage this Sunday night on TLC showing Lamas walking thru walls so who knows? So, I don't think this is necesarily proof for or against.

As far as the integrity and validity of the Chinese gov's propaganda, you gotta be kidding me. They blow so much smoke out their *ss you'd think you're stuck in a cab with some practicing Rastafarians. Reminds me of the anti-LSD largely-BS "horror stories" you heard in the 60s. Even the recent self-burnings are highly suspicious of being faked. Like one guy's "burned face" looks suspiciously like the latex masks used in movie-making, where it's thicker and covers up the real hairline, creating a false one that goes straight up all around. Meanwhile, the gov has cruelly tortured countless and killed over a hundred non-resistant followers.

I don't care if this guy's a flake, I think the gov's crackdown on it is horrendous. I think everyone has the right to religious freedom, especially if it's non-violent.

Bottom line is, I want to hear the facts argued here, not baseless mudslinging. I want to hear specific facets of the teachings, exercises or Li Hongzhi debunked, or not. Again, anyone???

[Qiman]

Orginex, I agree with you about the outright suppression of thoughts and ideas in China. I am very much a supporter of free speech and all the liberties we enjoy in the good ole US of A.

I thought I was specific when I described the visual hallucinations this guy was reporting. I did sutdy the teaching from the website for a while. I stand by my first post.

[origenx]

qiman - actually, I've heard the same advice to not be distracted by weird hallucinations or visualizations during meditation from various sources, not just FG. That was even supposedly one of Sakyamuni's "tests" for enlightenment per legend. So, I consider that pretty standard advice, if anything...

And BTW, as far as levitation and "superpowers" - a certain HUGE mainstream "respected" religion claims its leader could walk on water, materialize things, change substances, heal and come back to life after death - yet no one uses that as proof that it's BS or a "cult." Can you spell D-O-U-B-L-E S-T-A-N-D-A-R-D ??

[This message was edited by origenx on 02-19-01 at 11:27 AM.]

[Iron_Monkey]

My thoughts exactly origenx. Until someone has PROOF, then let it alone....


People think if it can't be explained or sounds impossible, then it is. I think science and spirituality will eventually prove eachother right...........

[Kung Lek]

Hi...again.

origenx, you can draw your own conclusions about Li Hongxi and his teachings at his website.
The link is supplied in another post.

Falun Gong/dafa is a "cult of personality" and not a religious cult. They are different.
you speak of outrageous stories of "miracles and faith healings" in reference to the christian faith. The christian faith has many aspects.
Some even recognize Jesus as just a man, but a man with a message of peace.
The miracles can all be explained and have been by various sources.
for instance "water into wine"- it is known that the same amphorae (bottles) were used over and over again sometimes over a period of years.
This led to a residue buildup of crystallized wine in the amphorae. Jesus directs someone to fill it with water and swish it around.
Wine is produced much in the same way as instant coffee.
The zealots proclaim this a miracle. Jesus never claimed a miracle had occured.

The fishes and loaves story has an equally intersting twist.
Everybody gathers (about 5000). 5000 people gathering with no food at all? didn't happen.
the demonstartion by Jesus and his followers was a lesson in giving.
IE: Give away everything you have and it will be returned in two fold.
If I hand over all my fish to the next guy, somebody down the line is gonna give me theirs and so on until all the food that was present at the sermon on the mount was distributed and there was some leftover in the end. The only miracle there was that people gave up their own possessions and learned that they really gave up nothing but instead made gains in more areas than food.

Lazarus was a result of knowledge. He may not have even been dead at all. Jesus was likely educated in some medicinal practices and either brought lazarus out of a coma, or any number of other techniques associated with medicinal practices at the time (which were no less or no more primitive than herbalism and manipulative therapy or Chi manipulation or acupressure.puncture of today).

Li Hongxi in his writings sets himself apart from the rest of humanity and all his contemporaries. He claims that virtually all of the masters of Chi Kung don't really understand Chi Kung and that only if you follow his way will you see what "real" chi kung and it's benefits are.

Li Hongxi is the leader of a cult of personality that does little more than borrow from chi kung arts that have existed for many years before he was a gleem in his dads eye.

Li hongxi has told people to not go for treatment of acute symptoms and those people have died because of their faith in Li.

Li hongxi capatalizes on those who are too weak to make their own destiny manifest.
He is clever and recognizes most readily human weakness.

Yes the PRC is likely going overboard in their protestations about Li and his group, and they do have a clear track record of obfuscation and deception and accordingly are not trusted by the western public.

But what of western propaganda? What of the still prominent "communist scare" in the western world.

Li hongxi is no different than the rest of us, he is a human who has all the problems and joys of being human.
to his followers he is a demi urge and sage of sorts.

Li is not the only one who practices these deceptions.

The Chinese government does not crack down anymore on people doing tajiquan in the park or Chi Kung for that matter. It is the communist party line to not allow groups that are considered dissident to flourish.

Li hongxi actively recruits government people in all levels where possible.
He is seeking internal political power and indeed he has a political agenda.

I do not agree with the tenets and precepts of communism at all in any way. it is a pile of marxist utopian garbage in my not so humble opinion.

Nor do I agree with anything about falun gong practices with the singular exception that Chi Kung practice is good for you and it is good for anybody of any age.

Be careful, that's all.

peace

Kung Lek

[This message was edited by Kung Lek on 08-19-01 at 11:58 AM.]

[Qiman]

Li also states that Monks or Nuns that cultivate in a specific way. When dead and creamated will leave a mass of material from a different dimension. It cannot be identifed by modern science. Sounds delusional to me.

[brucelee2]

Actually, I have read in several books of high level masters of chiqong/taoism, when cremated, leaving a number of diamond-like residues. I think Magus of Java was one of these books. Bones of the Master may have been another.

[Kung Lek]

Yes, the claims of interdimensional materials and residues that are unidentifiable by science...
I have "heard" these claims too.
I don't think anyone actually ever had "science" take a look at these claims and I think that no-one ever will. It will immediately de-mystify everything.

It is these claims that drift from the truth of Chi Kung practice that tick me off.

Chi kung is a natural and very real thing that affects and effects each practitioner in a positive way.
It does not need to be mystified, it does not need to be wrapped in mystery.Accept it or don't but don't try and make a silk purse from a sows ear.

many do this with all sorts of arts.
Kung Fu is overmystified as are many martial arts.
It's just knowledge to be gained and applied, it is not some big-quasi religious secret.

corruption of intent, spirit and thought is what leads to these behaviours in so called "masters".

I have always been of the opinion that the more trappings and outward expressions you surround yourself with, the less true skill you have.
This I have found to be a general truism.

peace

Kung Lek

[origenx]

qiman - I don't know about "other-dimensional," but it is stnadard Buddhist belief that enlightened masters, when cremated, will leave "suli" - small whitish pebbles. Like, supposedly, when Sakyamuni was cremated, he left 84,000 suli and India gave china 19 of them. Of those 19, supposedly the only real one located today is in Famen Temple in Xian. I saw it, as well as a finger bone also purported to be from Buddha. Anyways, the "suli" looks like a tiny whitish pebble about the size of half a grain of rice.

Kung Lek - Intersting spin on Jesus' "miracles." I never heard those before - where'd you read that?

Ok points about Li Hongzhi, but I still haven't heard anything really convincing that puts a nail in his coffin. I wanna hear that he's embezzling all this money to buy a fleet of Benz's, or that he lied about his past, or specific points in his teaching that are wrong. I still haven't heard anything solid as such... ?

[Qiman]

Maybe delusions are to strong of a word, how about myth. I have never heard these stories before. Most of the books I have are on martial Qigong and only touch on the mystical. I like the fact that many of us have disagreed and no one has started name calling. Must be all that internal work! I may not can fly but it sure makes me calmer.

Origenx, I have not heard of the suli legend. Is it written about in the Dhammapada? If so were?
I am not challenging you, just want to read about it. :)

[GLW]

Coffin nails....not bloody likely.

The BEST con men apply just enough truth and appear honest enough to be worthy of the benefit of the doubt.

From an old Thief of Bagdad movie : "Trust in Allah,.....but tie up your camel"

From P.T.Barnum paraphrased, When you are offered something for nothing, you usually get nothing for something....

[magicfist]

falun gong is good
plain and simple

[origenx]

Qiman - I didn't read about "suli's." I don't even know if they're in Buddhist texts. I just learned about them when touring various temples in China. If you talk to someone who's travelled somewhat in China or lived there, they may have heard about it. Ask around...and let me know what you hear?

[ddh]

My teacher said that when his Buddhist teacher (a monk) died and was cremated, he left pearl like substances that came from his spine. These indicated that the internal fire from many years of meditation had hardened certain areas along the spine and were indicative of his teachers level of spiritual attainment.

[magicfist]

"By the time one reaches the state of Unlocking Gong (kaigong) and is enlightened, this dan will be a bomb that explodes and opens up all supernormal abilities, all locks in the body, and hundreds of energy passes. "Bang," everything will be shaken open. This is what the dan is used for. After a monk is cremated at death, sarira remain. Some people claim that those are bones and teeth. How come everyday people do not have sarira? Those are just the exploded dan, and their energy has been released. They contain in themselves a lot of substances from other dimensions. After all, they are also something of material existence, but of little use. People now take them to be something very precious. They contain energy, and are lustrous, as well as very hard. That is what they are."

[origenx]

ddh, magicfist - yeah, pearly "pebbles" being left after cremation of enlightened masters is a fairly standard Buddhist phenomenom that is not a new Falun Gong thing.

[magicfist]

Sorry if I gave the impression that it was strictly a falun gong thing. It was just a description of a phenomenon that has happened to people in the past. By the way, what does ddh mean?

[Anarcho]

"Orginex, I agree with you about the outright suppression of thoughts and ideas in China. I am very much a supporter of free speech and all the liberties we enjoy in the good ole US of A."

To start off with, I don't want anyone to get the idea that I'm supporting the Chinese government (or any government for that matter). You do have to remember, however, that much of the information you're getting from the corporate media in the good ole US of A is propaganda, just as it is here in Australia, or anywhere else you care to mention. It strikes me as funny that so many of the same people who knock others for not being more critical of Chinese reports are so completely uncritical of their own media. If you've ever spoken to journalists who work for large media corporations, you'll know that they're the first to admit to "editorial" pressure to keep in synch with what amounts to the party line.

My personal opinion is that Western governments spend most of their time killing citizens of other countries, while dictatorships tend to work on a domestic basis as well. Then again, that's my personal opinion. I think you have to take absolutely everything you hear or read with a grain of salt. Look at where it's coming from, look at why they want you to believe it...Criticism begins at home. For any of you who are interested, Noam Chomsky has written a number of excellent books about how the government and media in the US and other Western countries lie to their citizens. The good thing is, he usually provides independently verifiable evidence, too. ;)

Anyway...

[origenx]

anarcho - but that's sorta my point. Both gov's are sorta using FG as a political tool - it's not so much about FG itself. The Chinese gov could really care less what FG is about - they just see it as a threat for instability and insurrection. Just lots of frightened weak old men. The Chinese Communist gov wants to make an example out of FG to suppress other spiritual movements (see Tibet). I think the US is thus fairly concerned about the Chinese persecution aginst FG, but of course it also conveniently fits into their own anti-Communist agenda as well. Which I would have to agree with b/c Communism is a proven failure. Any system built upon human's ideal nature is bound to fail. You have to build it assuming the "worst" in human nature (selfishness, greed, etc.), but then channel those "negative" tendencies in a positive manner. (I.e. - get REAL folks!)

Bottom line is, everyone should just stick to the facts and evaluate FG on its own merits, instead of kicking it around like a political football. All I hear is lots of hearsay and propaganda still. But I guess that's the point - to cloud the issue by overloading people with misinformation and disinformation until they just get hopelessly confused.

[This message was edited by origenx on 03-06-01 at 10:50 AM.]

[GLW]

First off, good post on the idea to be doubtful of all media. The first thing I always ask is why is this person telling me this and where are they coming from...regardless of if the story is from China or from the west.

As for why China chose to crack down on Falun Gong...really simple, the organization began to attract thousands of followers, then it began to target low level party members and local officials for enticing into the Falun Gong group.

The thousands of followers is scary enough for the PRC government to take notice. Especially since it got its start in the recent history since Tienanmen Square...but now add the idea of targetting people for inclusion or conversion into the group....and you have a major problem in the eyes of a controlling regime like that of the PRC....

If I am the government, abuse of power is my right...if you do it, you are being insurgent ...but it is no different in other countries....

However, the real story is in the Falun Gong book...I actually bought it and have read parts of it just so I would know what the guy was saying. He is certifiable....and I mean a space cadet.

[Anarcho]

Cheers, OrigenX, I see your point. Just one aside, though, I don't think Marxism is based on considering humans to be naturally good, more on considering them to be changeable depending on their environment. And I definitely agree with you, state run communism couldn't work...You can't force people to do anything without causing more problems than you're solving. I also don't think that state run democracy works, but there you go. :)

Anyway, this is a thread for another board, so I'll shut up now.
:)

[o]

I brought up this old string to complement the new string on falun gong.

[PlasticSquirrel]

it seems to me that some people would classify this as mystical qigong. however, i don't believe that it ever claimed to be qigong. instead, it is a way of cultivation that includes exercises similar to those of qigong, but with a different purpose. when you have a falun, instead of a dan cluster, then the principles of what you are doing are totally different.

for instance, once you have a falun, practicing something that uses a dan could not work well. this is because the way they absorb and issue energy is different, and because a falun transforms the energy.

as i was saying, before i let myself get off the topic, is that it is a way to cultivation, similar to buddhism or daoism. a big difference, however, is that since people can cultivate quickly, and because the enlightenment is gradual, their third eye and supernormal powers develop gradually through practice. you can imagine how a man like li hongzhi, with his third eye and supernormal powers being how they are, could have gained so much knowledge. such an enlightened, or even somewhat enlightened person would seem odd or bizarre in a world like our's. his observations and knowledge wouldn't simply conform itself to what we know now. would the existance of aliens confuse and dumbfound an enlightened person? of course not. he would be able to see exactly what is happening. if he tries to tell the rest of us, this, however, will we believe him? we'll say "how do you know that?" when it should be quite clear to us how he does.

if you really read his books without attaching yourselves to anything else, it does make sense, what he says. the multi-dimensional aspects are clear and sensible, as are the rest of his teachings.

the big thing, though, is that we have to stop looking at it as mystical qigong. qi is a very small part of the practice, and is there only to open parts of the body, and to be transformed into gong (shen) by the falun.

p.s. if li hongzhi wanted to go against the chinese government with millions of practitioners in china, he wouldn't be able to. the reason is because they are non-violent. in fact, the main principles of the system are truthfulness, benevolence, and forbearance.

[denali]

From what I have heard.. Falun Gong is a group that is using chi kung for what it was never meant for--politics. Very often you see them 'meditating' in public, drawing attention to themselves and trying to make a statement, which I think contrasts with the idea of chi kung or meditation.

If a person wants to do chi kung, why draw attention to it? What does it matter? Why meditate downtown with all your friends and a big bright ribbon around your shoulder? (i saw this in the paper the other day)

I personally think that a falun gong member will only receive minimal health benefits from the postures they do, but will find a huge difference in attitude as well as better results when studying under a true chi kung master.

I would rather learn closer to the source ..

[magicfist]

"If a person wants to do chi kung, why draw attention to it? What does it matter? Why meditate downtown with all your friends and a big bright ribbon around your shoulder?"

Here's a story: I'm a college kid who does falun gong. If I lived in China and someone found out that I did falun gong, I would immediatly be kicked out of college. I would be arrested. I would be tortured. If I did not sign a paper declaring that falun gong was "evil" then I could also be sent to prison.
Some people have gotten sentences up to 10 years for practicing falun gong, while others have been tortured to death. We gather outside and practice to let people know that what China is doing is wrong and they should stop. Plain and simple that's all it is.

[Kung Lek]

magicfist-

there is an old saying- it says:

"society prepares the crime and the criminal commits it"

if you don't want to be found out, then don't practice what is considered criminal activity in public.

many people in the americas smoke marajuana, they do it in the privacy of their homes. Does this mean pot is good?
no it does not, it means that people will do what they like doing and try not to draw attention to themselves in the doing of it should it be a taboo thing to do in their given society.

If what you say is true, then it is YOU who must learn to work and live ithin the framework that you exist.

If you wish to influence change, then the last way that is done effectively is with an "in your face" attitude.

peace

Kung Lek

[Rory]

I didnt know if some people new this but one of the major reasons why the comunists threw him out and banned it is becauses he used to be a general for the military and he has quite a few military people loyal to him so it scared the communists and they threw him out. I personally dont like fg i read about 1 1/2 books i read china falun gong and a little bit of zhan falun gong its rather unorthudox (sorry for the spelling) but still theres no reason for any one to accuse them of anything unless they know from first hand expirience. :)

[[Censored]]

I was watching the news in Beijing last week. There was a report on a group of FG practicioners who kidnapped a non-believer and beat her to death, because she condemned Li. The story reported that they had Li's implicit approval; they were "excising devils".

I do not know whether the story is partially or completely true, but I have to wonder whether Li is really the "harmless nut" portrayed in US media.

[PlasticSquirrel]

i'm a little late with this thread, but here goes:

falun dafa practitioners are peaceful, like buddhists. they would never do anything like that. besides that, li hongzhi is in america, and isn't in enough contact with his chinese students to issue an order like that. even if he was, no one would do it, because they're peaceful, and don't exorcise demons in the first place.

it's not their place to do that, and they believe that they shouldn't interfere with those sort of things, although a high-level practitioner may ward away demons with his presence alone, and wouldn't resort to beating it out of someone (something that is ridiculously impossible, by the way).

falun dafa may be centered around one high-level teacher, but it is certainly not a network, an organization, or a cult. people can do as they wish, and no practitioner would resort to violence just because someone has a demon in them. li hongzhi says that people would be shocked if they saw how many people have demons, but he doesn't pay much attention to them.

[jun_erh]

i don't usually read rolling stone but their new issue with the "9-11-01" on the cover has a great article where a journalist from the NY Times interviews young would be terrorists/Bin Laden supporters. The one thing that struck me is that NOTHING HE SAID COULD CHANGE THEIR OPINION. This "faith" is usually reserved for supernatural/deified individuals (Jesus, allah) They would make a point, he would counter it and they would just say "no!!" That's insane. I consider Falun Gong to be a bunch of weirdos. People I would once have not considered a threat at all. Mao used comic books to get to people's conscoiusness, In the early 80's, we saw absurd Rambo knockoffs as right wing propaganda...
One word I saw in college often was "loaded". that is, the use of a word being used or meaning a lot of things, possibly. The right wing support of Paula Jones was "loaded" in that it was aimed to take down Clinton, not stop seual harrasment, or at least not firstly. So now someone is taking Tai Chi and putting an ideology on it? What if someone did that with Ju-Jitsu? Egads! :eek:

[PlasticSquirrel]

falun dafa is no more a cult than daoism. the people aren't kept track of. they come and go from the practice sites as they wish. if people just want to practice it for health, they can do that. instruction is free, as are the books and videos on the internet. nothing is kept in the shadows, and li hongzhi is only a teacher of falun dafa.

people that practice falun dafa don't care about politics, and are not violent radicals. they feel that they have no right to tell anyone how to live their lives, and if they kill, they will probably never succeed in cultivation. in falun dafa there is no excuse for killing, and no one will give you mercy in heaven. if they are nuts, then they are at least nuts who won't hurt anyone else or start any revolutions. those are the good type of nuts, i think.

it also has nothing to do with taiji. qigong has always been seperate from taiji, and the things that li hongzhi was taught are completely seperate from taiji, with no overlap.

as for the thing about chairman mao, you might do well to learn from history (china's paranoia, tianmen square), and rather about things not from the news or from chinese government propaganda and hearsay, but from the source.

really, people. the whole "falun gong is a cult and li hongzhi is evil" thing is totally without basis. it's all propaganda. look through his books online. i'm sure you will either come out with one of two opinions:

1. li hongzhi is nuts, and everyone who practices falun dafa is nuts

2. li hongzhi is brilliant, and falun dafa is the greatest thing ever

whichever one of these you think, it will at least be your own opinion, and not propaganda or lies.

[jun_erh]

You're probably right. In retrospect, I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm serious ;)

[WongFeHung]

the reason falun gong is able to gain a foothold in the usa is because people are of a new generation, who were not around for Rev Sung Myung Moon and his Unification Church, and there are alot of misplaced hippies,woodstock nation burnouts, reiki masters, and granola munching new agers with dream catchers on their rearview mirrors(is that so if they fall asleep while driving, they don't get nightmares?)looking for someone who has all the answers."there's a sucker born every minute"- PT Barnum

[PlasticSquirrel]

what about in china? there are a huge number of qigong masters. why didn't anyone question him earlier? surely they would have known the levels he was at without even talking to him. how did falun gong become far and away the most practiced qigong in china since the introduction of it in 1992? no one challenges his method or his levels of teaching. he was undisputed in china and his system was praised by the government because it was so powerful.

for the record, li hongzhi has 40 times the students that sun myung moon did.

[wuwei]

I saw an instructor teaching chi kung(zhineng) style here. He seemed a good fellow, but listening to him more and more,people would tell me that he's really teaching falun gong.Very deceptive man.

:eek:

[o]

Here are two articles I found at www.qi-journal.com (http://www.qi-journal.com) : "Is Qigong Political: A New Look at Falun Gong" by Ken Cohen, and "Falun Gong: A Way of Cultivation Practice" by Tracy Zhu. I have breifly started the first article myself and it looks to be of help to this topic. The site is: www.qi-journal.com/Qigong.asp?-token.Referrer=Qigong&-token.Category=Falun (http://www.qi-journal.com/Qigong.asp?-token.Referrer=Qigong&-token.Category=Falun) Gong

Here are the article descriptions:

"Is Qigong Political: A New Look at Falun Gong" Falun Gong has been in the international news and has become a political topic as China attempts to ban the practice and jail participants. Mr. Cohen not only describes the discipline to help us understand it better, but also gives his personal opinions on this very hot topic.

"Falun Gong: A Way of Cultivation Practice"
Did Mr. Cohen's article in the last issue (above) lead to misunderstanding about Falun? Here, a Falun Gong practitioner responds with an article that answers some of questions brought forward with their own personal experience