Shaolin Temple & Buddhism

[Citong Shifu]

I was wondering if any of you were aware that throughout Shaolin's 1500 year history, Buddhism "WAS NOT" the only religion / philosophy taught or practiced?

"Maybe not in recent years", but confisianism, daoism, confisian/daoist hybrid mixes, muslim, etc all had been the doctrines of the Shaolin Temple. Even christianity has seen its day at the S. Temple...

The reason I bring this up is that Modern Shaolin Temple (PRC & SS) has shoveled this under the rug, so to speak, and have forbid others to speak the truth concerning this issue.

Just curious about this.

CS

[B-Rad]

Nope, had no idea. Any reliable sources in English for reading up on this, or am I pretty much out of luck until my Chinese gets better? :p

[r.(shaolin)]

The reason I bring this up is that Modern Shaolin Temple (PRC & SS) has shoveled this under the rug, so to speak, and have forbid others to speak the truth concerning this issue.

I don't know about Muslim but, "Confucian /Daoist / Buddhist hybrid(s)" are very much part of Shaolin and Chan history. There is either some sensitivities or some monks simply just don't know the history and background of Chan. Here is how one Shaolin monk replied to me:
"Taoists and Buddhist were NEVER kept friendships like brothers of the same sect. Their teachings are totally opposite, so this was not possible. I will not expand more on this subject due to the complexity everyone’s refer to."

Why do you say forbidden?
r.

[Citong Shifu]

I don't know about muslim(ism) but "confisian /daoist / Buddhist hybrid(s)" are very much part of Shaolin and Chan history. There is either some sensitivities or some of the monks there just don't know. Here is how one Shaolin monk replied to me:


Why do you say "forbid"?
r.

r.(shaolin),
I will explain more (forbid) a little later. I want to see what some of the other replies are first. For very good reasons.

On Shaolin monk's reply - "Buddhism & Daoism are completely opposite". Only in the aspects of "religion", but their philosophies are the same, only worded different...??????.... Believe it or not... This is not hard to prove unless one is caught up on the "religion".... ???????????

Anyway, Lets hear some other replies first. Surely this isn't the first time this has been brought up...

CS

[bawang]

buddhism and taoism are somewaht similar,
unorthodox: (pure land buddhism and folk taoism both have gods and paradise
orthodox: buddhists reach nirvana while taoists reach the "void"

"Only in the aspects of "religion", but their philosophies are the same, only worded different"
their philosophies are the same but they ARE religions, hence different

taoists worship the immortals and taiji qiankun emperor, buddhists worship luohans and buddhas, so they have rival gods.

[Citong Shifu]

buddhism and taoism are somewaht similar,
unorthodox: (pure land buddhism and folk taoism both have gods and paradise
orthodox: buddhists reach nirvana while taoists reach the "void"

"Only in the aspects of "religion", but their philosophies are the same, only worded different"
their philosophies are the same but they ARE religions, hence different

taoists worship the immortals and taiji qiankun emperor, buddhists worship luohans and buddhas, so they have rival gods.

Thats my point, "religion". This will make more sense real soon. Bare with me..

CS.

[NJM]

Bare with me..

No thanks, it's a bit chilly in here.

I have heard that these religions were all practiced at the temple at one time, I believe it to be true. Though, I don't think Christianity played so large a part.

[Citong Shifu]

No thanks, it's a bit chilly in here.

I have heard that these religions were all practiced at the temple at one time, I believe it to be true. Though, I don't think Christianity played so large a part.

"I dont think Christianity played so large a part" - This is true. I was pointing out that it did reach ST at one point....

Here soon I'm going to connect kungfu to Shaolin Temple, Shaolin kungfu. I just need more replies to my original post. Some of you may find this trivial or just dont care, but in the end it will make more sense.

"HINT" Since one cannot master or gain high level understanding of Shaolin kungfu unless one is or follows Buddhism......... More on that later...

CS

[Pk_StyLeZ]

i really do not understand why u are hiding your *information* and dont just spill it out now.....

[LFJ]

"Maybe not in recent years", but confisianism, daoism, confisian/daoist hybrid mixes, muslim, etc all had been the doctrines of the Shaolin Temple. Even christianity has seen its day at the S. Temple...

they have all been "the doctrines of the shaolin temple"? you mean the monks there have once even held christianity as their doctrine? :confused:

it may have been wrong wording, but i dont agree with that at all.

basically, my view on the topic is this:

shaolin temple, at its founding was of nikaya buddhism with batuo, then chan buddhism with damo's lineage, and from the song dynasty until now it was of caodong chan with fuyu's lineage.

regardless of who may have visited and mingled or even took up residence, it did not interfere with these lineages- the only lineages recognized in shaolin temple history. what that means is that no one can officially take over the temple and change its doctrine without the previous lineage ending- such as when damo introduced chan, which the monks adopted, while nikaya buddhism faded.

it matters not who forces their way in and what they practice and/or teach. if it is not officially adopted as the new doctrine and a new lineage takes over while the previous ends, its simply something that floated around the temple- never to take root.

it has always been a buddhist temple. whether nikaya buddhism for 32 years, or chan buddhism and caodong chan until now. even if you acknowledge yongxin's new monks hired from pureland temples to portray a buddhist image. still, pureland is buddhist.

its simply impossible for a temple to represent three or more different religions at once too, as i've heard said. i find that highly illogical.

and my view on buddhism and daosim is that their philosophies are not quite the same. that becomes clearly evident when either path is not merely studied but lived to any significant level. which i say based on my own experience.

[Immortal_Dragon]

Different religions always reach different parts of the world. Its part of the religious philosophy and their goals. I am almost sure there are different religions that reached shaolin at some point. The government in China would only like you to believe that Buddhism is the official religion over there.

[LFJ]

i agree, immortal_dragon. thats obvious.

but the point is dude was saying each of those religions had once been the doctrine of shaolin temple.

sure, they may have been introduced there and floated around the area at different times. some may have even taken residence there for some time. but that doesnt change the doctrine of the shaolin temple.

there is a small christian church of some denomination or other that i know of, and on the weekends a tibetan monks sets up an altar there and a group comes to learn, chant, and practice the teachings of the tibetan buddhist monk.

... but the church is still a christian church of whichever denomination it is and has been since its founding. tibetan buddhists using it for some time does not change the doctrine of the church.

[unkokusai]

Anyone else find this "I'll tell you later!" bull**** annoying?

[Citong Shifu]

they have all been "the doctrines of the shaolin temple"? you mean the monks there have once even held christianity as their doctrine? :confused:

it may have been wrong wording, but i dont agree with that at all.

basically, my view on the topic is this:

shaolin temple, at its founding was of nikaya buddhism with batuo, then chan buddhism with damo's lineage, and from the song dynasty until now it was of caodong chan with fuyu's lineage.

regardless of who may have visited and mingled or even took up residence, it did not interfere with these lineages- the only lineages recognized in shaolin temple history. what that means is that no one can officially take over the temple and change its doctrine without the previous lineage ending- such as when damo introduced chan, which the monks adopted, while nikaya buddhism faded.

it matters not who forces their way in and what they practice and/or teach. if it is not officially adopted as the new doctrine and a new lineage takes over while the previous ends, its simply something that floated around the temple- never to take root.

it has always been a buddhist temple. whether nikaya buddhism for 32 years, or chan buddhism and caodong chan until now. even if you acknowledge yongxin's new monks hired from pureland temples to portray a buddhist image. still, pureland is buddhist.

its simply impossible for a temple to represent three or more different religions at once too, as i've heard said. i find that highly illogical.

and my view on buddhism and daosim is that their philosophies are not quite the same. that becomes clearly evident when either path is not merely studied but lived to any significant level. which i say based on my own experience.

I never said that these religions/philosophies were "represented at one time". Its understood that Buddhism has played the biggest role at Shaolin, but not the only role throughout its history... Furthermore, new doctorines were formed and ended, these lineage have been destroyed and kept hidden for many years. Shaolin like PRC cant let the lineage have holes. Everyone knows that in order to show purity, the lineage must not be distorted at all....

[Citong Shifu]

Anyone else find this "I'll tell you later!" bull**** annoying?


If you find this so annoying, please dont reply. This thread was intended for those who want to discuss the different aspects of Shaolin Temple and its history...

[AJM]

Since the Jesuits landed in china in the early 1600's everything out of Shaolin has been tainted with their virus.

[unkokusai]

If you find this so annoying, please dont reply. This thread was intended for those who want to discuss the different aspects of Shaolin Temple and its history...

No, it was intended to be a self-indulgent opportunity for you to try to inflate your sense of self importance.

How do I know? Well, you just think about it for a while and I'll share my special, special answer later.

[Citong Shifu]

The point I'm making here is that one does not have to be or practice Buddhism to become highly skilled or master Shaolin Kungfu... Shaolin Temple has had a mix of doctorines throughout its history and kungfu development and none of these religions/philosophies made the kungfu of shaolin or monk any better at the martial arts.

Now, especially through Songshan lineage, they completely mislead the world with these types of statements. These attempts to control and monopolize shaolin kungfu, like SS's attempt to patent the "Shaolin" name, allowing wushu players to pose as monks, etc are all degrading to Shaolin as a whole.

Control is the real issue here... I agree that the SS lineage monks are the authority of there Temples kungfu, but not Shaolin as a whole. Take the Quanzhou Shaolin Temple, they're not making such claims as SS. Why not? Because they're not "mainstream"? LOL!

Before this gets into a heated debate, martial arts were brought to Shaolin Temple by many non-Buddhist masters, the best China had to offer. Without these masters efforts and skills, what would Shaolin kungfu be today?

Something to think about...

[Citong Shifu]

No, it was intended to be a self-indulgent opportunity for you to try to inflate your sense of self importance.

How do I know? Well, you just think about it for a while and I'll share my special, special answer later.


LOL! Another person who likes to listen to himslef....

[unkokusai]

LOL! Another person who likes to listen to himslef....

By "another" I hope you are including yourself among the group. Are you? Wait, don't tell me yet, build up the suspense and tell me later...

[ittokaos]

My voice is quite nice. At least that is what I have been told.

Interesting stuff!

My question is a bit off topic. (Citong Sifu) It says in your profile that you practice Fujian Kung Fu. Now is that simply styles practiced at the temple or styles that are said to come from that area(ie..white crane, wuzuquan,etc...)

What styles are they exactly?

Sorry for the intrusion. Please continue your bickering.

WF

[Citong Shifu]

My voice is quite nice. At least that is what I have been told.

Interesting stuff!

My question is a bit off topic. (Citong Sifu) It says in your profile that you practice Fujian Kung Fu. Now is that simply styles practiced at the temple or styles that are said to come from that area(ie..white crane, wuzuquan,etc...)

What styles are they exactly?

Sorry for the intrusion. Please continue your bickering.

WF

ittokaos,
There's no bickering nor debate with those who already know everything. Those who wish to close their mind's will always find themselves wanting.

The "Fujian/Fukien Shaolin Temple's styles" I train are Shaolin Louhanquan, Shaolinquan, & Shaolin Dishuquan which were taught through Hui Kai Monk's lineage. (here is a more recent chart)

Hui Kai Monk
Zheng Yi Shan
Zhuang Zi Shen - Cai Ruo Shui (trained with Zheng for a short period as well).
Cai Ying Xia (trained with Zhuang for 11 years as a private disciple)
R. Davenport (me. Private disciple of Cai yingxia)

For those who didn't know how Zhuang became a student of Zheng's, this will be interesting. Zhuang actually challenged Zheng to a match after hearing of his high level skills. At the time, Zhuang himself was regarded a high level teacher as well. Well, the day came and the challenge match began, ending with Zheng breaking Zhuangs leg with a Di shu technique. Zheng helped Zhuang recover (Zhuang was also a famous bone doctor) and eventually passed the Shaolin Di Shu style onto Zhuang....

Hopefully that helps...

[ittokaos]

Would you be able to PM with a better description of what is contained in your Shaolinquan?(sets,sub styles,animals used etc...) The reason i ask is the fact that almost everyone's ShaolinQuan differs.

Also, what is Dishuquan? Is it a form or a style?

Sorry for taking up your thread with my off topic questions. You are right about those with closed minds.

[Citong Shifu]

Would you be able to PM with a better description of what is contained in your Shaolinquan?(sets,sub styles,animals used etc...) The reason i ask is the fact that almost everyone's ShaolinQuan differs.

Also, what is Dishuquan? Is it a form or a style?

Sorry for taking up your thread with my off topic questions. You are right about those with closed minds.

Yeah, I'll pm you later tonight or tomorrow with some of the forms names, etc. Shaolin Di Shu is SH. dog boxing or ground boxing...

TTYL.
CS

[LFJ]

I never said that these religions/philosophies were "represented at one time".

you said they all had been "the doctrine of shaolin temple". i disagree. they may have been there, but were never the doctrine of the shaolin temple.

Shaolin like PRC cant let the lineage have holes.

really? why not? what has shaolin got to hide? the dharma can be picked up and set down by anyone at anytime.

everyone knows there have been periods where the temple was without an abbot, when various monks acted as abbot. but the dharma doesnt have holes.

this is chan, who cares?!

Everyone knows that in order to show purity, the lineage must not be distorted at all....

and what is this purity, and why is it so important? and who cares?! :p

The point I'm making here is that one does not have to be or practice Buddhism to become highly skilled or master Shaolin Kungfu...

if this is your only point you've been waiting to make, its kind of late. everyone knows that.

Shaolin Temple has had a mix of doctorines throughout its history and kungfu development

the shaolin temple had a mix of doctrines enter, just like that tibetan monk i know who holds tibetan buddhist services at a christian church. but just like the doctrine "of that church" remains of christianity despite whatever else has a presence there, the shaolin temple has always been a buddhist temple.

and none of these religions/philosophies made the kungfu of shaolin or monk any better at the martial arts

a statement made of your own observation or assumption? a philosophy that trains one to understand and control their mind would definitely help bring about improvement with greater focus in training. and why not?

its a proven fact that emotional states have effects on motor skills. try balancing drills, strength exercises, or even flexibility training when upset. you'll find your training will not be as effective and your coordination will be off. do you know anything about how the brain works and connects everything from emotions to motor skills?

Now, especially through Songshan lineage, they completely mislead the world with these types of statements.

thats a crock, my friend. no one has made such a statement. you have simply misunderstood the point.

i'm reminded of the shaolin ulysses documentary where shi xinghong was talking about shi suxi asking him how he thought his gongfu was. shi xinghong naturally said "not bad, pretty good"- to which shi suxi replied saying he thought xinghong would never become a really great practitioner. the reason being because his "heart was not silent enough, it was floating".

thats the reason! when you realize that and learn how to silence your heart and plant your feet on the ground you will immediately improve a great deal. suxi said nothing about "buddhism". he didnt say because you havent studied the buddha's word enough.

he said simply because his heart was not silent, it was floating.

and any path which leads to silencing the heart and planting ones feet on the ground will improve ones gongfu and allow them to reach a higher level of mastery.

so basically, your whole idea for this thread was way late. and you've misinterpreted much, or else were just misinformed.

but it was not unimportant nor unnecessary. so thanks for starting such a thread as a great reminder!

peace! :)

[Pk_StyLeZ]

its a proven fact that emotional states have effects on motor skills. try balancing drills, strength exercises, or even flexibility training when upset. you'll find your training will not be as effective and your coordination will be off. do you know anything about how the brain works and connects everything from emotions to motor skills?



i agree with this
emotional status does affect one training A LOT
usually students who are happy.....train much more harder and actually try to learn.....
students who are mad..just use their power like crazy and go all out
students who are sad...usually..dont try in class...and look so down...and lost..and just dont giv a rat ass.....
this is what i noticed

[richard sloan]

well, speaking as a member of the Songshan lineage, the revelation expressed here in the first post in the thread is ummm...a little moot...and not quite right. I certainly couldn't agree with it being said that cross pollination and sharing of concepts and ideas between Buddhists at Shaolin and others is 'hidden' knowledge, it certainly is not forbidden knowledge I would say it is rather public. But who the hell knows these days- r.Shaolin's monk, I'd like to know who that was. I think it's important to remember that just because someone took vows that might not mean their information is correct- yet, lol...in fact I just met a few of Yong Xin's disciples who had to be instructed to return "Amitabha" with an 'Amitabha.'

Anyway you can walk into our temple and see a wall scroll bearing a tripartate figure- buddha, lao tzu, and confucious. The artwork comes from Shaolin. I'm sure I have posted a pic of this in the forum before because when I first saw it I was quite taken with the image. It's pretty cool looking.

There are temples all over the place around Shaolin, a Daoist temple often sheltered monks during the CR, and vice versa. They participated in each others ceremonies and if you look you can find pictures of this...

Anyway anyone who has access to Shaolin would or should know there was this kind of exchange and I seriously doubt there is any kind of conspirational directive regarding the matter. It's quite open knowledge.

[richard sloan]

its a proven fact that emotional states have effects on motor skills. try balancing drills, strength exercises, or even flexibility training when upset. you'll find your training will not be as effective and your coordination will be off. do you know anything about how the brain works and connects everything from emotions to motor skills?



hence the cultivation of no mind and the flat heart, why hui ke was taken to drum mountain.

[Citong Shifu]

you said they all had been "the doctrine of shaolin temple". i disagree. they may have been there, but were never the doctrine of the shaolin temple.



really? why not? what has shaolin got to hide? the dharma can be picked up and set down by anyone at anytime.

everyone knows there have been periods where the temple was without an abbot, when various monks acted as abbot. but the dharma doesnt have holes.

this is chan, who cares?!



and what is this purity, and why is it so important? and who cares?! :p



if this is your only point you've been waiting to make, its kind of late. everyone knows that.



the shaolin temple had a mix of doctrines enter, just like that tibetan monk i know who holds tibetan buddhist services at a christian church. but just like the doctrine "of that church" remains of christianity despite whatever else has a presence there, the shaolin temple has always been a buddhist temple.



a statement made of your own observation or assumption? a philosophy that trains one to understand and control their mind would definitely help bring about improvement with greater focus in training. and why not?

its a proven fact that emotional states have effects on motor skills. try balancing drills, strength exercises, or even flexibility training when upset. you'll find your training will not be as effective and your coordination will be off. do you know anything about how the brain works and connects everything from emotions to motor skills?



thats a crock, my friend. no one has made such a statement. you have simply misunderstood the point.

i'm reminded of the shaolin ulysses documentary where shi xinghong was talking about shi suxi asking him how he thought his gongfu was. shi xinghong naturally said "not bad, pretty good"- to which shi suxi replied saying he thought xinghong would never become a really great practitioner. the reason being because his "heart was not silent enough, it was floating".

thats the reason! when you realize that and learn how to silence your heart and plant your feet on the ground you will immediately improve a great deal. suxi said nothing about "buddhism". he didnt say because you havent studied the buddha's word enough.

he said simply because his heart was not silent, it was floating.

and any path which leads to silencing the heart and planting ones feet on the ground will improve ones gongfu and allow them to reach a higher level of mastery.

so basically, your whole idea for this thread was way late. and you've misinterpreted much, or else were just misinformed.

but it was not unimportant nor unnecessary. so thanks for starting such a thread as a great reminder!

peace! :)

I dont want to go "tit for tat", but Shaolin (PRC) has much to hide and will continue to hiding the true facts. Purity, well modern Shaolin Temple has started this debate. As far as a philosophy that trains one's mind, I agree. I believe this is very important. My comment was made due to the restrictions placed on what philosophy/ies could be used...

Example - I also train and teach Ziranmen which is daoist. My sifu was a private disciple of Wan laishen. Now, when I first strarted training ZRM and its philosophy I quickly learned learned that 99% of the difference between my Shaolin and ZRM was strategy/ies. Sure, the philosophy was different but only by wording (like when two people are discussing the same thing but in diferent ways)... I guess one could totally take them in two different directions, of course, but the goal is to maintain simplicity.

[LFJ]

Shaolin (PRC)

if thats what you're talking about then, i find it odd. because "shaolin (prc)" makes a very strange title.

to me, and in the hearts of many traditional monks, disciples and students of shaolin temple, this "prc shaolin" is not shaolin at all. its just like saying those sausages sold under the shaolin name were shaolin.

modern shaolin is the same as the old shaolin. just like the dharma can wear many colors, have many expressions. but essentially it is unchanged and remains the same. shaolin, to us, is a path of dharma. therefore a path of simplicity.

this "prc shaolin" is a movement, not a path. a movement may need to uphold some image and cover its tracks. but a path is meant to be clear. and it is.

and paths may cross, but as richard says, its always out in the open.

my advice: if you want to know the fact of what shaolin is, dont follow the "prc shaolin" movement- follow the path.

[Citong Shifu]

if thats what you're talking about then, i find it odd. because "shaolin (prc)" makes a very strange title.

to me, and in the hearts of many traditional monks, disciples and students of shaolin temple, this "prc shaolin" is not shaolin at all. its just like saying those sausages sold under the shaolin name were shaolin.

modern shaolin is the same as the old shaolin. just like the dharma can wear many colors, have many expressions. but essentially it is unchanged and remains the same. shaolin, to us, is a path of dharma. therefore a path of simplicity.

this "prc shaolin" is a movement, not a path. a movement may need to uphold some image and cover its tracks. but a path is meant to be clear. and it is.

and paths may cross, but as richard says, its always out in the open.

my advice: if you want to know the fact of what shaolin is, dont follow the "prc shaolin" movement- follow the path.


Ok! I guess the PRC doesnt control or run Modern Shaolin Temple (Songshan & Putain). This is why I use Shaolin (prc). This is a common fact with Shaolin Tample. And, Modern Shaolin Temple is not the same as the old ST!!!!!!!!!! But, if you insist, ok... I have alot of facts concerning this subject. The path, what is the path? Shaolin philosophy teaches us not to "define". My intentions are not to discredit Modern Shaolin, only discuss what has been twisted and kept from the public.

[LFJ]

Ok! I guess the PRC doesnt control or run Modern Shaolin Temple (Songshan & Putain). This is why I use Shaolin (prc). This is a common fact with Shaolin Tample. And, Modern Shaolin Temple is not the same as the old ST!!!!!!!!!! But, if you insist, ok... I have alot of facts concerning this subject. The path, what is the path? Shaolin philosophy teaches us not to "define". My intentions are not to discredit Modern Shaolin, only discuss what has been twisted and kept from the public.

i'm afraid you've completely misunderstood me. let me define (even if shaolin philosophy says not to :rolleyes:):

my idea of this "prc shaolin" is the whole movement led by yongxin.

my idea of true "shaolin" is a path of dharma. which rules out yongxin's movement, imho.

and since shaolin is a path of dharma and the dharma is unchanging, because it is unconditioned, therefore i say modern shaolin is the same as old shaolin.

its something that exists only in ones heart. outside of the physical structure of the temple, and far beyond the politics of yongxin's movement.

that being made clear, again the twists and information being kept from the public has nothing to do with shaolin. how could that ever be a part of dharma? what you are talking about is "prc shaolin" aka. yongxin's movement.

it is as far from being shaolin as the "shaolin" sausages.

so as far as true shaolin is concerned, if you are looking at this movement as modern "shaolin"- a continuation and evolution of shaolin, you might as well be eating shaolin sausages.

[Citong Shifu]

i'm afraid you've completely misunderstood me. let me define (even if shaolin philosophy says not to :rolleyes:):

my idea of this "prc shaolin" is the whole movement led by yongxin.

my idea of true "shaolin" is a path of dharma. which rules out yongxin's movement, imho.

and since shaolin is a path of dharma and the dharma is unchanging, because it is unconditioned, therefore i say modern shaolin is the same as old shaolin.

its something that exists only in ones heart. outside of the physical structure of the temple, and far beyond the politics of yongxin's movement.

that being made clear, again the twists and information being kept from the public has nothing to do with shaolin. how could that ever be a part of dharma? what you are talking about is "prc shaolin" aka. yongxin's movement.

it is as far from being shaolin as the "shaolin" sausages.

so as far as true shaolin is concerned, if you are looking at this movement as modern "shaolin"- a continuation and evolution of shaolin, you might as well be eating shaolin sausages.


LFJ, Sorry. I think I did misunderstand your post. I couldn't agree more with your post/reply. Yongxin's movement, correct. His appointment was political. He has no real kungfu or wushu background, but yet he speaks and makes decisions concerning Shaolin wushu and its evolution, etc. He is a business man (graduate business degree) working for the PRC. Believe this. Its common knowledge. Shaolin Temple is so commercialized now it's not even funny. Money, money, money.... This I dont really care to much about, only there efforts (Songshan) to claim domination over the entire Shaolin kungfu world.... Its been said and quoted in many of the magazine articles/publications that unless one is associated or affiliated with Songshan Shaolin Temple, one is not a legitimate Shaolin kungfu practitioner or instructor. Same if one is not a Chan practitioner... I agree with you on learning a philosophy to train the mind and character. I just dont believe it has to be Chan. To make or trick someone into practicing any religion is wrong. How is
Shaolin Temple doing this? By making statements like, without Chan one can master shaolin kungfu, etc.... I understand that Chan has much influence on Shaolin kungfu philosophically, but not the religous aspect of Chan... Anyway, I think you know where I'm going with that, lol...

Really, I'm not against the new evolving Shaolin Temple or its kungfu. This evolution has really boosted the popularity of the Shaolin arts. Just want to see the credit shared throughout the world Shaolin kungfu.

[LFJ]

Its been said and quoted in many of the magazine articles/publications that unless one is associated or affiliated with Songshan Shaolin Temple, one is not a legitimate Shaolin kungfu practitioner or instructor. Same if one is not a Chan practitioner...

but, said and quoted by whom? there's the famous line "tianxia gongfu chu shaolin". (all gongfu comes from shaolin) but there is a following line that is often forgotten, even though its importance is far greater. that is "shaolin gongfu bian tianxia". (shaolin gongfu spreads throughout the world) and what happens when lineages branch out across the world? of course! some become unassociated, and things change.

but, i could understand maybe if its said because their gongfu evolves into something not practiced at the temple. it would be some sort of offshoot, i guess. if you wanted to be technical. its not shaolin if its not developed by those in shaolin... ?

and as for not being a chan practitioner- well, you may not be a disciple of true gongfu if that is defined as a physical expression of chan. then you'd just be a martial artist. and we all know there are many great martial artists in the world.


I agree with you on learning a philosophy to train the mind and character. I just dont believe it has to be Chan.

well, to be literal, the word "chan" refers to a deep state of meditation. once entered anything will be an expression of it. (going back to "real gongfu") but

basically, chan in itself never indicates philosophy. chan is unique in that it does not require a belief or any written word to be followed. therefore, so long as one can find a way to reach a state of what we call "chan", then it doesnt matter what your religion may be.

like i said, shi suxi told shi xinghong nothing about religion or philosophy. he simply told him about his state of mind not being quiet enough.

To make or trick someone into practicing any religion is wrong. How is
Shaolin Temple doing this? By making statements like, without Chan one can master shaolin kungfu, etc....

first of all the temple has no mouth with which to speak. "the temple" sounds like its representing the word of all the individuals involved in it, like the many different monks who dont all think alike.

but if you take that idea of chan as i just expressed, then this statement begins to make sense, doesnt it? again, no one is talking belief or religion here. just talking about a state we named "chan".

[Citong Shifu]

but, said and quoted by whom? there's the famous line "tianxia gongfu chu shaolin". (all gongfu comes from shaolin) but there is a following line that is often forgotten, even though its importance is far greater. that is "shaolin gongfu bian tianxia". (shaolin gongfu spreads throughout the world) and what happens when lineages branch out across the world? of course! some become unassociated, and things change.

but, i could understand maybe if its said because their gongfu evolves into something not practiced at the temple. it would be some sort of offshoot, i guess. if you wanted to be technical. its not shaolin if its not developed by those in shaolin... ?

and as for not being a chan practitioner- well, you may not be a disciple of true gongfu if that is defined as a physical expression of chan. then you'd just be a martial artist. and we all know there are many great martial artists in the world.




well, to be literal, the word "chan" refers to a deep state of meditation. once entered anything will be an expression of it. (going back to "real gongfu") but

basically, chan in itself never indicates philosophy. chan is unique in that it does not require a belief or any written word to be followed. therefore, so long as one can find a way to reach a state of what we call "chan", then it doesnt matter what your religion may be.

like i said, shi suxi told shi xinghong nothing about religion or philosophy. he simply told him about his state of mind not being quiet enough.



first of all the temple has no mouth with which to speak. "the temple" sounds like its representing the word of all the individuals involved in it, like the many different monks who dont all think alike.

but if you take that idea of chan as i just expressed, then this statement begins to make sense, doesnt it? again, no one is talking belief or religion here. just talking about a state we named "chan".

LFJ, When explained like that it makes alot of sense. One of the points I was trying to make (according to the teachings passed to me) is, Shaolin kungfu is based on Shaolin philosophy with meditation (Chan) being one aspect. The question is, does one have to convert to Chan in order to complete the meditation or mind training? Absolutely not! My disagreement with Shaolin Temple kungfu delegates today is that one needs only to follow Shaolin philosophy in order to become skilled in the Shaolin martial arts... I understand that China/Shaolin wants to spread Buddhism throughout the world, this I dont have a problem with. Many cultures have been spreading their religion and beliefs throughout America for years. We're America, we welcome all... The question is, What exactly is Shaolin philosophy if not Buddhism? :D.

[LFJ]

right. see my signature. its a quote from master shi deyang. it says basically the same thing. gongfu comes from chan. its an expression of chan. but the same can be said for anything including daily chores. but the way one puts on their shoes is vastly different from the way one who is in a state of chan may put on their shoes. see what i mean?

in shaolin, we refer to gongfu as an expression of chan. without that you cant call it gongfu. thats the point. its just plain martial arts movements or techniques. which is fine if thats your goal. but in shaolin, that is not the goal.

through chan, putting on your shoes is not simply putting on your shoes. the intention and the driving force is not impulse. its spontaneous action and reaction through the clear sight of chan-eyes.

its completely different though it may look the same. thats why we say you cant call it real gongfu if it doesnt come through chan.

but it is also very important to remember that this has nothing to do with religion, per se. its a state of mind. a flat heart does not float into the sky. it stays grounded.

shi yanming, for example has many disciples who are of different religions! thats something to think about. they are disciples of chan yet do not have to change their own religious beliefs. that is definitely not a requirement.

chan may be a requirement for true gongfu. but buddhism is not.

[GeneChing]

I've always believed that there is a philosophy intrinsic in the practice of Shaolin. It's not at all like Master Po laying down some words of wisdom between lessons. It's built into the very movements. Philosophy need not be transmitted via word or sutra. That was the whole Buddha/Kasyapa flower trip. Bodhidharma is attributed to have disregarded sutra as well. Chan isn't necessarily held in words. Words may be the most literal way to attempt transmission, in a very literal sense, but it's definitely not the only way.

That being said, consider Taguo, the largest school at Shaolin, which some say reached a student body peak of 19,000 a few years ago. Taguo is putting out more Shaolin trained masters than anywhere. The headmasters are the Liu Clan. If you look at my article, 13,000 Warriors of Taguo (which for some mysterious reason is not listed in the online table of contents for Shaolin Special 2003 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=397)), I interview Taguo's founder Grandmaster Liu Baoshan. He's been a card-carrying communist since 1952. So Shaolin's largest academy isn't under Buddhist supervision at all. Quite to the contrary. Nevertheless, the Liu family have been folk Shaolin masters for seven generations.

One of the fundamental teachings of Buddhism is to never be possessive of the teachings. This gets a little sticky with layman and folk transmission, but really only if your overly possessive of things like the name Shaolin. Yongxin's effort to control the Shaolin name is very complicated. Of course, he has a very close relationship with Taguo, and to the best of my knowledge, he hasn't shut down any of Taguo's students from advertising their schools as Shaolin derived. In America, he hasn't made any attempt to shut down Shaolin schools. You'd think, given Yanming's transgressions, Yongxin might have acted, but he didn't. He even had audiences with Yanming when he returned to Shaolin. (I should note that I mean the NY Yanming; there is now a CA Yanming at my school - see our Shaolin Special 2007B (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48258) for details ;)) . I know he went after some European schools, but that seemed more like PRC politricks bubbling over into foreign soils. Has he gone after any Shaolin schools that were not from the Dengfeng area yet? He's also gone after the performance tours pretty heavily, although there are still many unofficial tours on stage outside China.

It's all about Chan. But what is Chan? ;)

[Citong Shifu]

I've always believed that there is a philosophy intrinsic in the practice of Shaolin. It's not at all like Master Po laying down some words of wisdom between lessons. It's built into the very movements. Philosophy need not be transmitted via word or sutra. That was the whole Buddha/Kasyapa flower trip. Bodhidharma is attributed to have disregarded sutra as well. Chan isn't necessarily held in words. Words may be the most literal way to attempt transmission, in a very literal sense, but it's definitely not the only way.

That being said, consider Taguo, the largest school at Shaolin, which some say reached a student body peak of 19,000 a few years ago. Taguo is putting out more Shaolin trained masters than anywhere. The headmasters are the Liu Clan. If you look at my article, 13,000 Warriors of Taguo (which for some mysterious reason is not listed in the online table of contents for Shaolin Special 2003 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=397)), I interview Taguo's founder Grandmaster Liu Baoshan. He's been a card-carrying communist since 1952. So Shaolin's largest academy isn't under Buddhist supervision at all. Quite to the contrary. Nevertheless, the Liu family have been folk Shaolin masters for seven generations.

One of the fundamental teachings of Buddhism is to never be possessive of the teachings. This gets a little sticky with layman and folk transmission, but really only if your overly possessive of things like the name Shaolin. Yongxin's effort to control the Shaolin name is very complicated. Of course, he has a very close relationship with Taguo, and to the best of my knowledge, he hasn't shut down any of Taguo's students from advertising their schools as Shaolin derived. In America, he hasn't made any attempt to shut down Shaolin schools. You'd think, given Yanming's transgressions, Yongxin might have acted, but he didn't. He even had audiences with Yanming when he returned to Shaolin. (I should note that I mean the NY Yanming; there is now a CA Yanming at my school - see our Shaolin Special 2007B (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48258) for details ;)) . I know he went after some European schools, but that seemed more like PRC politricks bubbling over into foreign soils. Has he gone after any Shaolin schools that were not from the Dengfeng area yet? He's also gone after the performance tours pretty heavily, although there are still many unofficial tours on stage outside China.

It's all about Chan. But what is Chan? ;)


Thanks Gene and LFJ,
This is what I was getting at the whole time, with a few extras :D. I needed other members to bring this material up so it didn't sound like it was just me or my opinion. I see your point about Yongxin and his actions (as well as the taguo), but as you've stated this is a very sticky subject. There are things that can and can't be done concerning Yongxin and the Taguo, as well as Yanming (NYC) and some of the others. I'm really glad that Shaolin's evolving, really. I just think Yongxin or Shaolin delegates should express a little more caution when explaining Shaolin and its kungfu's true intention when targeting the public or layperson. It can be rather confusing to someone who has no real knowledge on this subject.. Know what I mean... Heck, how many times have your heard this same argument, many times. Why? Because its not being made clear. I will always help support Shaolin kungfu and promote the Shaolin arts, regardless of my feelings. Hopefully, that will be good enough...

CS (Ron)

[GeneChing]

Shaolin has become much more active in Buddhist rituals recently. It's all fulfillment of the promise Shi Yongxin made when he took abbacy. We've reported on some of the non-martial, strictly-Buddhist events and activities that Shaolin has participated in of late, both here on the forum and in Kung Fu Tai Chi (http://www.martialartsmart.com/19341.html). In fact, our next issue (Nov Dec 2009) has a short news piece on another Buddhist event that's just about to conclude at Shaolin Temple right now - the China Shaolin Chan Debate 100 Day Summit. In general, the press is more focused on Shaolin's martial aspect, so I was amused to find the article below on today's newsfeed. I'll compile more here, if I find more.

Chinese Bhikkhus to participate in Norochcholai ceremony (http://www.dailynews.lk/2009/08/14/news04.asp)
Wasantha RAMANAYAKE

A traditional Buddhist religious ceremony with the participation of Shaolin Buddhist monks from China will be held on August 20 marking the erection of the roof over the main building housing generators of the Norochcholai Coal fired power plant, a Power and Energy Ministry official said.

The Chief Prelates of the Malwatte and Asgiriya Chapters and Ramannya Nikaya will also participate in the religious ceremonies, the spokesman said.

Power and Energy Minister W. D. J. Senevirathne, Power Minister Mahindananda Aluthgamage and Buddhist Affairs Minister Pandu Bandaranayake will participate.

Quoting the Chinese Construction Company official, the spokesman said a Buddha statue of the Shaolin tradition will be installed at the power plant premises.

The completion of the construction of the main building would mark the end of the main civil engineering work.

Other construction work would be completed by the beginning of next year.

He said that the construction of the second and third phases of the power plant would also begin in October this year and is expected to be completed by 2012. He said the total cost of the project would exceed $ 1,346 million, funded mainly by China.

[David Jamieson]

What is Ch'an?

Buddha:

"A statement concerning birth is no statement concerning birth; a statement concerning eternity is no statement concerning eternity."

so, apparently Ch'an is taoism. :D

[GeneChing]

Sri Lanka politics? There's some historical precedence for Shaolin monks as 'emissaries' in this fashion, perhaps?

Chinese influence on the rise (http://www.hindustantimes.com/Chinese-influence-on-the-rise/H1-Article1-459505.aspx)
Sutirtho Patranobis, Hindustan Times
Colombo, September 30, 2009
First Published: 00:07 IST(30/9/2009)
Last Updated: 00:12 IST(30/9/2009)

Readers of this column were recently privy to the critical piece of information that I was looking for an apartment. Well, I found one and moved too.

My former apartment is now rented to a Chinese professional.

Real estate broker Anton said that the current surge in the otherwise dull, drooping property market in Colombo is from China. “In last six months, I had at least 60 Chinese clients; both families and bachelors. Many (of them) are working in Norochcholai,’’ he said.

China is a building a 900 MW coal-based power plant in Norochcholai. At the ceremony to mark the end of the first phase, 50 Chinese Buddhist monks and martial art masters were flown in from Shaolin Temple.

The Galle Face Green, a promenade with centuries of history and heritage, is both the lungs and heart of Colombo.

These days, the road next to it has become an exhibition ground for Chinese technology. Over 100 bull dozers, earth excavators and rollers are on display.

But I am not unduly worried about the rising strategic Chinese influence in Sri Lanka. I mean, India too has presence in a port and a power plant project in east.

All I long for is some authentic Chinese influence in food; not the saccharine lemon chicken or the flame-throwing shredded chilli pork served in most Chinese restaurants in Colombo.

A couple of Cantonese chefs and a small loan from the Exim Bank of China could cook up some nice recipes easily. And my readers would be the first to know.

[RenDaHai]

Wushu can be taught, Religion can be taught, Neither kung fu nor zen can be taught. They come from your personal practice and contemplation.

One does not have to have ever heard of zen or of kung fu to be a master of both zen and kung fu or either.

Zen is not some religion that people can convert to.



By the way anyone been to shaolin recently? Yong Xin put a !@£$%^& coffee shop INSIDE the temple!! It has wireless internet for gods sake!

[sha0lin1]

I was there in June. Don't remember a coffee shop. We would have killed for some coffee.

[RenDaHai]

Its on the right side of the entrance, It is actually a tea house but inside is done up all modern. They do coffee as well. It leads into the new shopping area inside the hall of steles. where they sell unique shaolin merchandise, even expensive shoes specialy branded shaolin, clothes, lots of books and all kinds of other stuff (even a shaolin brand meditation tent). TO the left of the temple is the new shaolin medicine shop, that is actually pretty cool. If you want to get into the temple you can simply walk in through the medicine shop or the tea house for free! At least you could last year, december was the last time I went inside, I live in Kaifeng now.

As much as i hate it being inside the temple the new little shopping area actually sells some pretty cool stuff, and some good books that you can only buy in that one gift shop, only after going inside shaolin si. If you missed it you missed out on some good souvenirs.

[GeneChing]

There used to be a French pastry & coffee shop past just before the Aviary. I only remember that being there for a year or two. They had decent coffee, or so I'm told. I never tried it. That was independent however - privately owned - and it was removed early during the relocation.

Shaolin has its official line of tea. We used to carry it here (http://www.martialartsmart.com/index.html). In fact, I have some of the containers right next to me on my desk. Some of the tea boxes were absolutely gorgeous.

There used to be a vegetarian restaurant for the public inside Shaolin Temple. That's actually fairly common in Buddhist temples. I never ate there either.

I need to get back to Shaolin. It's been too long since I've been there.

[sha0lin1]

Its on the right side of the entrance, It is actually a tea house but inside is done up all modern. They do coffee as well. It leads into the new shopping area inside the hall of steles. where they sell unique shaolin merchandise, even expensive shoes specialy branded shaolin, clothes, lots of books and all kinds of other stuff (even a shaolin brand meditation tent). TO the left of the temple is the new shaolin medicine shop, that is actually pretty cool. If you want to get into the temple you can simply walk in through the medicine shop or the tea house for free! At least you could last year, december was the last time I went inside, I live in Kaifeng now.

As much as i hate it being inside the temple the new little shopping area actually sells some pretty cool stuff, and some good books that you can only buy in that one gift shop, only after going inside shaolin si. If you missed it you missed out on some good souvenirs.

I didn't miss it. I saw the meditation tent. I almost bought that gold sword but, kinda funny, shaolin si doesn't take visa. They do take Discover though. I bought quite a lot from the gift shop. Our masters though kept telling us not to and giving us stuff for free, like insence. Two of our students would only eat in the vegie cafe, is that where the coffee was? I got a lot of stuff at the temple but you can't haggle over prices there, had much more fun doing that in Dengfeng. The medicine shop was cool. However, one of my brothers jammed his thumb during training and the medicine didn't help him. Our Master Yan Wen ended up driving him and another of my brothers into Dengfeng to see this back alley doctor who ended up being this old lady who ended up diging her fingers deep into his joint causing him excrutiating pain. Wished they would have brought a video camera for that trip. When they got back and told their story we were all rolling on the ground laughing.

[RenDaHai]

Haha,

Yeah thats the place. It was only finished late last year. I don't think it really goes with the style of shaolin.

Yeah they do coffee,

The books are the best buy at the gift shop, they are quite uniqe, only wish I could read chinese.

[-木叶-]

I was wondering if any of you were aware that throughout Shaolin's 1500 year history, Buddhism "WAS NOT" the only religion / philosophy taught or practiced?

"Maybe not in recent years", but confisianism, daoism, confisian/daoist hybrid mixes, muslim, etc all had been the doctrines of the Shaolin Temple. Even christianity has seen its day at the S. Temple...

The reason I bring this up is that Modern Shaolin Temple (PRC & SS) has shoveled this under the rug, so to speak, and have forbid others to speak the truth concerning this issue.

Just curious about this.

CS

Very interesting, but i have to say this is totally misleading, let me rephrase, totally
wrong... to us Chinese,
Shaolin Temple is where the origins of Buddhism can be found in China, when
it first arrived from India.

Seriously, tell this to anyone in the Asian countries and they will laugh and will
not even bother to question it. If you will seriously study the differences, and
including picking up the Chinese language, the differences between what you
have stated will be very clear.

[GeneChing]

Monday November 23, 2009
In the spirit of love (http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.asp?file=/2009/11/23/lifefocus/5046197&sec=lifefocus)
By FOONG THIM LENG

Venerable Hui Li’s mission to propagate Buddhism in Africa is bearing much fruit.

VENERABLE Hui Li was branded a devil and a “poisonous weed” by the locals in the early days of his missionary work in South Africa.

“I was condemned by the local people, government officials and people of other faiths. They did not know what Buddhism is and have not seen a Buddhist monk in robes before,” he said.

He faced protest from the local church and local residents over the building of a Buddhist temple in Bronkhorstspruit, near Pretoria.

However, he remained adamant on his undertaking despite threats that his temple would be seized by the government.

“I had to remain calm, and practise patience and kindness before I could overcome the obstacles,” he said in an e-mail interview.

To prove his sincerity and to win over the people, Ven Hui Li carried out charity events and assisted the sick and poor by distributing clothing, food and medicine.

Known as the African Monk, Ven Hui Li has vowed to devote five lifetimes to develop and propagate Buddhism in Africa.
Building strong minds: The children also get to learn and practise meditation.

Born in Pintong county, Taiwan, in 1955 to poor farming parents, Ven Hui Li learned early that life is fragile. His school was located next to a cemetery and the frequent funeral processions left a deep impression on him.

In 1987, he became a student of Master Hsin Yun, the founder of the Fo Guang Shan Buddhist Order, and was ordained a monk a year later.

In 1992, to fulfil Master Hsin Yun’s vow to build a Fo Guang Shan temple on every continent, Ven Hui Li volunteered to go to South Africa to build the first Mahayana Buddhist temple on African soil.

He arrived in South Africa, a total stranger, and it took him weeks of travelling around and hardship to get a clearer view of the country. At one stage, he contracted malaria but he did not falter in his determination to serve Africa.

“If you don’t get malaria, you have not got your passport to work in Africa,” he quipped.

In 1994, the African Buddhist College (the first Buddhist seminary in Africa) opened at Nan Hua Temple in Bronkhorstspruit to teach Buddhist scriptures and practices to young men with the aim of helping them alleviate their problems through education.

When he visited Malawi in 1998 to make a donation of wheelchairs, Ven Hui Li became aware that 40% of the population was HIV-positive and over one million children had lost one or both parents to AIDS. He realised that there would be a whole generation of orphaned children, who, if they reached adulthood, would have no proper upbringing and very little education. Thus was born the concept of Amitofo Care Centres (ACC).
On a mission: Ven Hui Li and 30 of his young charges from the Amitofo Care Centre will be in Malaysia for the Spread The Seeds Of Love charity event.

Ven Hui Li abdicated the abbotship of Nan Hua Temple in 2001 to dedicate himself fully to his work in Africa, earning himself the reputation of being the Albert Schweitzer of Mahayana Buddhism.

Following successful negotiations with Malawi’s First Lady, the late Ethel Mutharika, a piece of land just outside Blantyre, in southern Malawi, was donated for his project.

Construction of the first ACC began in 2003. Generous donors, mainly from Taiwan, provided financial support. By 2005, the first stage of construction was completed and 120 children aged between three and 12 moved in. By 2008, the Malawi Care Centre was looking after nearly 300 orphans and children of single parents.

At present there is a preparatory school which is occupying one of the hostel blocks until a school for about 500 kids can be built. Next on the agenda is the building of a high school and a centre for vocational training. There is a clinic run by two care mothers, qualified nurses, and volunteers from abroad.

Kung fu is the special skill taught at the Blantyre Care Centre as a cultural exchange programme. About 100 children practise kung fu taught by masters from the Shaolin Temple in Henan, China, to instil discipline, tenacity and focus.

The children attend service every morning and receive Buddhist teachings.

The ACC also assists other community-based organisations in the surrounding district that support over 2,000 children and more than 1,500 adults.

ACC has branches in Harare (Zimbabwe), Nhlangano (Swaziland), Mafikeng (Lesotho) and Yaound (Cameroon). There are plans to set up centres in Zambia and Tanzania next.

ACC needs about US$12mil a year to achieve its goals.

Ven Hui Li and 30 children from the centre will be visiting Malaysia and Brunei on a charity tour entitled Spread The Seeds Of Love from Nov 28 to Dec 30.

They will stage charity performances in Ipoh, Penang, Johor, Petaling Jaya, Kuantan, Kuala Lumpur, Kelantan, Muar, Malacca, Kota Kinabalu, Miri, Bintulu, Sibu and Kuching.

The main organisers of the tour are Persatuan Anak-anak Yatim Eduwis Selangor, NSS Centre (a charity organisation in Ipoh) and Hai Tao Foundation. Entry to the performances is by invitation card.

http://thestar.com.my/archives/2009/11/23/lifefocus/f_02amitofo1.jpgSolid stances: Children at the Amitofo Care Centre in Malawi get to learn kung fu taught by masters from the Shaolin Temple in China.

[GeneChing]

I wonder if this is fallout from the stock option debacle. (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=996980&postcount=70)
Shaolin Abbot calls for social harmony (http://www.china.org.cn/china/NPC_CPPCC_2010/2010-03/08/content_19555047.htm)
By Wang Ke

Buddhism shares with traditional Chinese culture a deep reverence for the value of harmony, and its doctrines promote social accord and world peace, the abbot of the Shaolin Temple told China.org.cn.

As a religion with "profound ideas of harmony and a concept of peace," Buddhism can help prevent conflict among people, promote social accord and harmony between man and nature, Shi said.

Buddhism took root in China after being introduced from India more than 2,000 years ago. There are now more than 100 million Buddhists in China.

Shi said Buddha's vision of peace is more relevant than ever before, and called on people everywhere to work together towards the common goal of a harmonious and peaceful world.

"As a responsible country, China has its own profound beliefs and vision for the promotion of world harmony," he said. "Religious beliefs are one of the important social forces from which China draws strength."

He said that throughout history Buddhism had helped avert conflict and preached a doctrine of peace among people and between humanity and nature.

"All schools of Buddhist are equal and co-exist peacefully and amicably. And Buddhism has become an important channel for international cultural exchange," he told China.org.cn.

While Buddhism values unity over division, there is a deep-rooted acceptance of the concept of difference and variety in all aspects of life. Its philosophy of selflessness, charity, respect, equality and tolerance naturally leads it to promote and safeguard world peace, Shi said.

Shi said that at this year's session of the NPC he was planning to introduce legislation to protect traditional Chinese culture, and in particular the unique Buddhist traditions of the Shaolin Temple.

[kfson]

I wonder if this is fallout from the stock option debacle. (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=996980&postcount=70)

http://www.smallisbeautiful.org/buddhist_economics/english.html


BUDDHIST ECONOMICS
by E. F. Schumacher



" "Right Livelihood" is one of the requirements of the Buddha’s Noble Eightfold Path. It is clear, therefore, that there must be such a thing as Buddhist economics.

Buddhist countries have often stated that they wish to remain faithful to their heritage. So Burma: “The New Burma sees no conflict between religious values and economic progress. Spiritual health and material well-being are not enemies: they are natural allies.” 1 Or: “We can blend successfully the religious and spiritual values of our heritage with the benefits of modern technology.” 2 Or: “We Burmans have a sacred duty to conform both our dreams and our acts to our faith. This we shall ever do.”

All the same, such countries invariably assume that they can model their economic development plans in accordance with modern economics, and they call upon modern economists from so-called advanced countries to advise them, to formulate the policies to be pursued, and to construct the grand design for development, the Five-Year Plan or whatever it may be called. No one seems to think that a Buddhist way of life would call for Buddhist economics, just as the modern materialist way of life has brought forth modern economics. ..."

[David Jamieson]

http://www.smallisbeautiful.org/buddhist_economics/english.html


BUDDHIST ECONOMICS
by E. F. Schumacher



" "Right Livelihood" is one of the requirements of the Buddha’s Noble Eightfold Path. It is clear, therefore, that there must be such a thing as Buddhist economics.

Buddhist countries have often stated that they wish to remain faithful to their heritage. So Burma: “The New Burma sees no conflict between religious values and economic progress. Spiritual health and material well-being are not enemies: they are natural allies.” 1 Or: “We can blend successfully the religious and spiritual values of our heritage with the benefits of modern technology.” 2 Or: “We Burmans have a sacred duty to conform both our dreams and our acts to our faith. This we shall ever do.”

All the same, such countries invariably assume that they can model their economic development plans in accordance with modern economics, and they call upon modern economists from so-called advanced countries to advise them, to formulate the policies to be pursued, and to construct the grand design for development, the Five-Year Plan or whatever it may be called. No one seems to think that a Buddhist way of life would call for Buddhist economics, just as the modern materialist way of life has brought forth modern economics. ..."

It appears that Burma has collectively read "The Secret" and are now actively exercising the techniques expressed in it. Or at least, using it for an excuse to become rich...