Martial Art Masters and Medicine

[LoneTiger108]

Having been taken through some aspects of TCM during my own training in Lee Shing Wing Chun, I was wondering how many Martial Art Masters outside of China actually have recognition in this area?

Lee Shing was a known Restaurant Owner in Londons Chinatown for over thirty years. His 'Canton Restaurant' was the first to be given 24hr licensing, and according to stories, his interest in TCM (especially Herbology) grew throughout his life. He was no Doctor though, but he felt that some types of training were easily compensated with a good brew or soup and this was something I drank myself in my time with his student, Joseph Man.

I have an interest myself, and having attended the London College of Traditional Chinese Accupuncture for a Seminar I recognized most, if not all of the theories discussed from my Kung Fu Training.

I would love to train more in TCM, but this was something that my own teacher had no real interest in due to the 'aromas of crazy soups!'

Any help and assistance with my study will be most welcome...

[lhommedieu]

Having been taken through some aspects of TCM during my own training in Lee Shing Wing Chun, I was wondering how many Martial Art Masters outside of China actually have recognition in this area?


Quite a few - but generally if they are Chinese and still living in Chinese communities their expertise is not widely known and shared only within the community, and with family and students. For example, Kenny Gong was a Xing Yi teacher in New York's Chinatown who was well known for his Chinese medicine and bone setting skills.

One of his long-term students, Frank Butler, is the subject of many of the posts below on this forum regarding "Zheng Gu Tui Na." See also Tom Bisio's bio at www.tombisio.com.

Best,

Steve

[Zenshiite]

I just bought Bisio's book Tooth From the Tiger's Mouth. Good stuff.

[GeneChing]

Many TCMA masters have some elements of TCM in their practice. My first Sifu Wing Lam did dit da, but it wasn't something he was certified in. Back in the late 80's, I remember him exploring the possibility getting a massage license because at time, there was no certification that really recognized dit da formally. I'm not sure that there is such a thing now. Is there? Another of my Shifu, Tony Chen, his father, Chen Jian, opened a brick & mortar clinic that was just strictly TCM. It was right next door to Tony's San Leandro school. Both are closed now because that area is undergoing redevelopment.

There are many masters that practice dit da informally like Lam Sifu. They usually only practice on their students and a small number of friends, people in the know. There are also some that are legally certified as clinicians, acupuncturists, massage therapists or any number of other similar degrees. They often offer their services more publicly, since they are 'legal'. It depends on the individual master.

[herb ox]

Lam Sifu's dit da was what got me on this road to barefoot medicine. I am forever grateful for his inspiration.

This is an interesting subject to me. While I understand the need for quality control and oversight to ensure practitioners of all sorts won't harm their clients, it also seems to me that people (I'll say "the people"!) should enjoy as a basic human right, unrestricted and nonjudgmental access to health care, as well as the foods, herbs, vitamins and so forth required to maintain optimum health in our stressful world.

I'll leave it at that. :p


peace

herb ox

[lhommedieu]

... While I understand the need for quality control and oversight to ensure practitioners of all sorts won't harm their clients, it also seems to me that people (I'll say "the people"!) should enjoy as a basic human right, unrestricted and nonjudgmental access to health care, as well as the foods, herbs, vitamins and so forth required to maintain optimum health in our stressful world....

Can't argue with that. I think that your statement begs the question of whether, in the absence of "quality control" and "oversight," traditional healers (and I am speaking here of practioners who have undergone the same kind of long-term, rigorous training that was common, for example, among students of martial art teachers practicing Die Da medicine, or among apprentices of a classically trained Chinese acupuncturist or herbalist) actually posed a substantial risk to their patients in the first place?

This is a separate question from whether, if a traditional healing modality attains a measure of success against, for example, a contagious disease, and it is subsequently shown that a Western drug, for example, attains a similar or greater measure of success against the same disease, then patients should have access to both forms of treatment modalities?

Best,

Steve

[LoneTiger108]

There are many masters that practice dit da informally like Lam Sifu. They usually only practice on their students and a small number of friends, people in the know. There are also some that are legally certified as clinicians, acupuncturists, massage therapists or any number of other similar degrees. They often offer their services more publicly, since they are 'legal'. It depends on the individual master.

It's interesting to note the comments on this thread as it does seem that the USA obviously has similar practices than we do in the UK. I will say this though, it is not exactly 'illegal' for anyone here to stick a needle in you and charge you money, or even mix you a nice concoxion. There is a standard education system in place which is forever trying to gain recognition from certain authorities but in general a practitioner of TCM in the UK could be 'anyone'! I was recently treated for a neck injury on the NHS, and the 'Therapist' chose Accupuncture and she was quite good IMO.

We have hundreds of TCM 'Shops' here in London and, in some cases, the Authentic Chinese 'Doctors' backgrounds are harder to trace than a student who has gone to College here. I do believe Plymouth University now recognizes a Masters degree standard in TCM.

My main interest, however, still lies in the Martial Arts and I find it fascinating that the Wing Chun Family have still to release the infamous Dr Leung Jan Books which outline his lifes work in TCM and related Kung Fu training.

[GeneChing]

Having been the victim of TCM overdose on several occasions, I think regulation is a good thing. I've had some rather severe allergic reactions, some of which have left me with permanent damage. At the same time, acupuncture in China isn't regulated in the country. It's not uncommon for someone to stick an needle in someone else rather casually, for a headache or some other common malady. Of course, given sterility issues, particularly when penetrating the skin barrier, well, that raises a whole mess of other issues.

This is strictly subjective, but my personal experience has been that many martial artists approach TCM with too much machismo - it's sort of a 'submit to me and be healed' philosophy, which might work on the uneducated just as a punitive placebo, but it can be rather destructive. These types of martial artists make bad healers, obviously. They are part and parcel of the trade, just like charlatans that pervade the martial arts in general. While I have looked to tiedazhang in the past, and probably will in the future, I'm always very cautious. Of course, my position on this is somewhat surreal - people always want to impress me. That adds to the machismo factor unfortunately.

[lhommedieu]

I guess we've had different experiences from different ends of the spectrum. I've never felt the "submit to me and be healed" phenomenon, and someone who practices from a desire to impress someone else is just practicing bad medicine...

Best,

Steve

[dougadam]

Do you recommend any books on dit da?

[lhommedieu]

Do you recommend any books on dit da?

Sure - A Tooth from the Tiger's Mouth, by Tom Bisio. Available from Amazon.com.

Best,

Steve