Southern Praying Mantis styles

[The Xia]

The founder of Kwang Sai Jook Lum Jee Nam Tong Long Pai is Som Dot. The founder of Chu Gar Nam Tong Long Pai is Chu Fook Tu. The founder of Ti Au Nam Tong Long Pai is Choi Dit Ngau. The founder of Chow Gar Nam Tong Long Pai is Chow Ah Nam. If I'm not mistaken, none of those styles are offshoots of one another. Even though they have separate founders, they are all Hakka Mantis. I may be wrong on this, but they look like they have the same core to me. Sure, there are stylistic differences in what I have seen, but I do not detect any more between Hakka Tong Long styles then I do between say, Hung Sing Choy Li Fut and Buk Sing Choy Li Fut. Are all the Hakka Tong Long hands different branches of the same style? If so, do the founders have any lineage relation to one another?

[gabe]

The founder of Kwang Sai Jook Lum Jee Nam Tong Long Pai is Som Dot. The founder of Chu Gar Nam Tong Long Pai is Chu Fook Tu. The founder of Ti Au Nam Tong Long Pai is Choi Dit Ngau. The founder of Chow Gar Nam Tong Long Pai is Chow Ah Nam. If I'm not mistaken, none of those styles are offshoots of one another. Even though they have separate founders, they are all Hakka Mantis. I may be wrong on this, but they look like they have the same core to me. Sure, there are stylistic differences in what I have seen, but I do not detect any more between Hakka Tong Long styles then I do between say, Hung Sing Choy Li Fut and Buk Sing Choy Li Fut. Are all the Hakka Tong Long hands different branches of the same style? If so, do the founders have any lineage relation to one another?

Roger Hagood, the Mantis King, answers your questions here:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51959&page=3

[Sam]

Monks Lee Siem See and Wong may have been contemporaries of Som Dot. What is amazing is that Grand Master Lam Sang tained directly with Lee Siem See and inherited the Jeong Fong. www.jooklummantis.com

[Sam]

SharingMantis:
Original hand sets from Lam Sang was Sam Bo Gin to begin with. Now almost everyone knows Sam Bo Gin. It's not a secret. Someone asked Lam Sang once"Mark Foon,teaches Sam Bo Gin this way, Ho Dun teaches it that way and so who is correct? Lam Sang answer was they are all correct. One likes this hand, the other likes that hand. However Lam Sang did stress the breathing, hitting out three times,and concentration on each finger etc. 18 points is another original. The only time Lam Sang was displeased was when an early deciple changed it completely. For example 18 point is done going straight,turn around straight line,and turn around again and close the set. One disciple made changes by saying he decided to put 108 footwork into 18 points, so the set comes out looking like your going from side to side with a few extra added fancy moves. According to Lam Sang this is not adapting, it is changing the system completly.
Originally weapons is a staff and a sword. Originally hand set is 108. Reach Siem Kuen and the set closes.Lam Sang only learnled half from his teacher.He completed the system under Lee Siem See (spelling by sound),and that is when he was giving the (Jeung Fong),by Lee Siem See.
Besides internal hands, their is also "San Far Shou", which is a flowerly hand. Or you can probably call it "Spreading Flower Hand". This was taught by a female, and is mainly used towards hitting the face. Lam Sang added this to the style. Most two man sets Lam Sang taught is never the same the second time around. Lam Sang used to say, "Anyone that thinks a set is supposed to look exactly the same as the sifu taught do not know".
Lam Sang always stress, being able to adapt on the spot. Easy said ,not easy to do. It's like you learn 26 letters of the alphabet yet by using those 26 letters, you are able to make sentences and paragraphs. This is adapt. Not coming out with letter number 27 and 28. This is complete change.
www.jooklummantis.com

[The Xia]

Thanks Sam, that was very interesting.

[bamboo bug]

The Xia,

There are more interesting questions answered by "SharingMantis" on the jooklummantis forum (http://www.jooklummantis.com/jlm/forum/default.asp).
Come by and check it out.

bb

[Sam]

You're Welcome Xia.

[Doc Stier]

Roger Hagood, the Mantis King, answers your questions here:



What a hoot! :D Perhaps only in his dreams. :o With all due respect to Roger Hagood, he is a pretty good marketer of his school and website, but his SPM skills were never enough to qualify him as the Mantis King. :rolleyes: And as long as Masters like Sifu Gin-Foon Mark and Sifu Henry Poo Yee still breath, among numerous others, including several Sifus of their same generation of practitioners, top students, and immediate family members like Elliot Mark, he never will be the Mantis King, IMO. ;)

I agree that virtually all of the Southern Praying Mantis Styles share a common Hakka heritage coming out of Fujian/Fukien, and bear a closer physical resemblance to one another than some other families of styles do, like the major styles of Tai-Chi Chuan for example. Although different styles of SPM may include different Form Sets in their teaching curriculum, and oftentimes several different versions of each individual Form Set within the same school or style, they nonetheless share is very unique and similar stylistic appearance in their respective movement patterns.

During the 8+ years that I learned from Sifu Mark, I was taught no fewer than 3-5 different versions of Form Sets like the Sam Bo Gin Set, the Half Lily Set, the Hard Mantis Set, the 18 Point and 108 Point Mantis Sets, and others, as well as several different versions of various Two-Person Sets or Drills. Master Mark always said that the Sam Bo Gin Set best represented the essential core of the SPM Systems, which is why it was usually the first Set taught, and why this Set is a part of every SPM Style in one version or another.

Doc

[gabe]

What a hoot! :D Perhaps only in his dreams. :o With all due respect to Roger Hagood, he is a pretty good marketer of his school and website, but his SPM skills were never enough to qualify him as the Mantis King. :rolleyes: And as long as Masters like Sifu Gin-Foon Mark and Sifu Henry Poo Yee still breath, among numerous others, including several Sifus of their same generation of practitioners, top students, and immediate family members like Elliot Mark, he never will be the Mantis King, IMO. ;)

I agree that virtually all of the Southern Praying Mantis Styles share a common Hakka heritage coming out of Fujian/Fukien, and bear a closer physical resemblance to one another than some other families of styles do, like the major styles of Tai-Chi Chuan for example. Although different styles of SPM may include different Form Sets in their teaching curriculum, and oftentimes several different versions of each individual Form Set within the same school or style, they nonetheless share is very unique and similar stylistic appearance in their respective movement patterns.

During the 8+ years that I learned from Sifu Mark, I was taught no fewer than 3-5 different versions of Form Sets like the Sam Bo Gin Set, the Half Lily Set, the Hard Mantis Set, the 18 Point and 108 Point Mantis Sets, and others, as well as several different versions of various Two-Person Sets or Drills. Master Mark always said that the Sam Bo Gin Set best represented the essential core of the SPM Systems, which is why it was usually the first Set taught, and why this Set is a part of every SPM Style in one version or another.

Doc


"Mantis King" is what he calls himself. I think his posts over there indicate that he includes northen mantis in his kingdom, in addition to jook lum and chu gar. I guess you don't agree.:cool: