Beauty vs. effectivness

[AmanuJRY]

In a lot of threads, I see people complain that most pro MMAists striking ability is sloppy but with some (Fedor, Liddel, etc.) their sloppy striking is quite effective.

Is it solely strength training and conditioning that makes these attacks effective?

Is it that other attributes (timing, distancing, speed) are more important than how the technique 'looks'?

Does the appearance of the strike affect is effectivness?

[sanjuro_ronin]

While some can look "sloppy" in the MMA striking, the best ones have a solid striking foundation that allows for "KO Power" to still be present regardless of "sloppy form".
the other thing you should realize is that if you were to take Fedor or Lidell of Mirco and put them into a pure striking match, the techniques would no longer look "sloppy".

And its not "sloppy" by the way, its "unorthodox" due to the nature of the MMA game.

[AmanuJRY]

While some can look "sloppy" in the MMA striking, the best ones have a solid striking foundation that allows for "KO Power" to still be present regardless of "sloppy form".
the other thing you should realize is that if you were to take Fedor or Lidell of Mirco and put them into a pure striking match, the techniques would no longer look "sloppy".

And its not "sloppy" by the way, its "unorthodox" due to the nature of the MMA game.

"Sloppy" wasn't my word for it, I was just using the term thrown around.;)

I agree with what you're saying about a solid foundation and KO power, my questions are directed at those who consider MMAists to be "sloppy".

Personally, I believe Fedor has excellent form.

[Lucas]

I dont, per se, think MMA striking is dominatnly sloppy, though i will say some guys are.

But so are guys from any venue/style/gym/school etc.

Effectiveness in this arena, IMO, is the bottom line.

If it works, who cares what it looks like. The beauty of your striking art lies in the state of your opponent at the end of the match. not the strikes themselves.

If one can get KO's, CONSISTANTLY, then he is doing what seems to work for him in particular.

Liddel for example. His striking may be unorthodox to many, yet he has created a personal science in the ring/cage that he feels and follows. It works for him, and it works well. May not work well for others, but thats just how his brain works.

[brianK]

Well, my primary striking art is xingyi. Ugly kung fu is some of the best. Fedor, chuck, and other top MMA KO artists hit with unitary full body power, just like Mike Tyson, Jack Dempsey, and Li Tai Liang. Now as to whether they comprehend the soft...

Brian

[Three Harmonies]

Certainly works for cats like Chuck and Fedor. Just imagine how crisp and clean their strikes would be if they took 3 months of boxing!
Just because you don't own a racecar doesn't mean you can't drive fast!
Cheers
Jake :cool:

[AmanuJRY]

...But fedor has a boxing coach.;)

[TenTigers]

It all depends on your POV, your backround and your understanding of technique.
Case in point: We are Hung-Ga school. In fighting, we throw big swinging punches-gwa-choy,sow-choy,cup-choy,etc. We have been accused of throwing wild,swinging strikes by refs who simply were unfamiliar with our technique, and have actually been penalized for this. Of course, I then have to explain (teach) the refs what it is they are actually seeing. Funny thing is, quite often, these guys are so-called Kung-Fu practitioners!:eek:

[LeeCasebolt]

If it's effective, I think it's pretty. See signature.

[Fu-Pow]

It all depends on your POV, your backround and your understanding of technique.
Case in point: We are Hung-Ga school. In fighting, we throw big swinging punches-gwa-choy,sow-choy,cup-choy,etc. We have been accused of throwing wild,swinging strikes by refs who simply were unfamiliar with our technique, and have actually been penalized for this. Of course, I then have to explain (teach) the refs what it is they are actually seeing. Funny thing is, quite often, these guys are so-called Kung-Fu practitioners!:eek:

You think Hung Ga have it bad, try doing CLF at a tourney.

FP

[TenTigers]

I hear ya,FP. Our Hung-Ga is greatly influenced by CLF and Hop-Ga, so people always ask us if we are one or the other. When I say that we're Hung-Ga, they say,"Really? You don't fight like Hung-Ga." -well, sure. Because most of those guys fight like kickboxers.:p

[Shaolin Wookie]

In a lot of threads, I see people complain that most pro MMAists striking ability is sloppy but with some (Fedor, Liddel, etc.) their sloppy striking is quite effective.

Is it solely strength training and conditioning that makes these attacks effective?

Is it that other attributes (timing, distancing, speed) are more important than how the technique 'looks'?

Does the appearance of the strike affect is effectivness?

No, but it works vice versa. Generally, TMA guys look structured when they're doing forms, and naturally assume that this is how they appear when they spar. I've only ever seen a couple of guys that fight excellently and use the material they do in their forms, and actually retain the "beauty" in conflict....although there's probably a better word for it. Coincidentally (or not), they were all in superb condition, and had been doing it for 8 years or more, and really did not mind putting the hurt on you. Also, they are always the guys who want to spar every day, and get some kind of contact, as a last resort even if only in push hands.

Some here say MMA looks sloppy, because sometimes it does degenerate into a slugfest exactly like Rock 'em Sock 'em robots; but they do have very good structure, usually. Watch their legs. It's more of a boxing structure for the most part. The hands get on my nerves. A lot of people who ought to keep them up, leave them down. Chuck keeps his hands low, generally, but it's to set up his strongest punch, and he's got a killer overhand. And he keeps his hips squared to his opponent, even if his feet aren't (I guess so he can defend takedowns, which he's pretty darned good at if you ask me).

Just because their structure is different doesn't mean it's sloppy. It works for that environment. I think that's why kung fu suffers there. Back weighted stances are wretched for takedown defense, because they require momentum shifts to get the legs out of the opponent's reach.