Grappling fo Girls

[Ben Gash]

Hi guys, what issues have you experienced teaching women in a mixed class, and how have you got around them? Do you need to make any modifications to things like pummeling drills?

[MasterKiller]

I've worked with women. I have one regular chick in my class right now. I don't modify it. If they can't take getting their boobies rubbed incidentally while training, they shouldn't be training.

I always tell them before they start that some of the positions will feel compromising and uncomfortable, and that if they aren't ready for that they should probably look for something else.

[Ben Gash]

That is kinda my outlook, I was just trying to see if there's a middle way ;)

[MasterKiller]

That is kinda my outlook, I was just trying to see if there's a middle way ;)

There is no middle way in the ring or in the street. You either do it or you don't, boobies or not.

[Three Harmonies]

To be honest I prefer teaching women (get minds out of gutter;)) because they enter the class with an open mind, no ego, and they actually listen to what I tell them!! Can't say the same for the men I have taught. If they have prior experience I inevitably get the "well we did it like this in my Ninja class...." BS, they are usually going WAY to hard because they are eager to prove whos **** is bigger, and they have a real hard time listening to instructions.
Now I am making a general statement, and it certainly does not apply to all men (nor women for that matter), but these have been my experiences especially since movin up here and teaching more females.
MK hit the nail on the nose! Yes tits get in the way, but they have to learn to deal. Got one girl who is HUGE, and I find her pulling her rear hand back too far to get around the problem. Told her she needs to try to keep the hands forward to protect her face/head. She manages!
Jake :)

[lkfmdc]

I have a female fighter that kicks men's butts all the time.... I also have a few women in the regular contact classes on a pretty regular basis, adn they do what everyone else does. For a whole pile of reasons you don't want to treat them differently. So it really comes down to ; do they want to do it or not?

There are a lot of guys who don't want to "do it" also

[Ben Gash]

Hey, that's why I'm asking, if you guys don't have problems, that's great, it means I shouldn't either. No-one's going to jump in with a paper on malignant fibrotic breast tissue in female wrestlers are they?

[Oso]

for the most part it's been the guys working with the gals who have the problem. the girly girls just go straight to the women's only class and the few who want to really work come in to the regular class.


what's ironic is the simple fact of a women's only class for anything related to self defense...women on women crime isn't too prevalent.

[Vash]

There is no middle way in the ring or in the street. You either do it or you don't, boobies or not.

That is so sigworthy.

[Oso]

yea, makes me want boobies of my own :D

[monji112000]

I have a female fighter that kicks men's butts all the time.... I also have a few women in the regular contact classes on a pretty regular basis, adn they do what everyone else does. For a whole pile of reasons you don't want to treat them differently. So it really comes down to ; do they want to do it or not?

There are a lot of guys who don't want to "do it" also

LOL yah I remember the fist night of kick boxing class, I got clocked by a female who I figured was more concerned about braking a toenail or something.. I learned quickly how wrong I was. Got to love getting kicked by a woman with pink toenails. I still have a mental block about punching them.. maybe I am just odd.

[MasterKiller]

yea, makes me want boobies of my own :D

Better off just renting them once in a while. Once you own them, you never get to touch them.:mad:

[Vash]

Better off just renting them once in a while. Once you own them, you never get to touch them.:mad:

That's why you get other people's wives. Half the cost, but twice the excitement.

And twice the death threats. Don't forget those.

[Dragonzbane76]

There is no middle way in the ring or in the street. You either do it or you don't, boobies or not.

Classic.....:)

Why would you want to not train in a men's class? Women are more pron to get attacked by a man than a woman.
If a woman if not able to forget about the "uncomfortable" positioning while grappling then she should go home. Just realistic. I always try to put the few we have against the biggest meanest guy in class, because in reality that's probably what they will get outside the classroom doors.

[SenseiShellie]

Let me tell you this from a female point of view. Martial Arts has been a guys world for some time...lots of guys train in it. Personally, if a female can't get over that then she shouldn't be there...plain and simple. I do my best to get the best training that I can get. I currently train at a traditional BJJ school. Females aren't allowed in group classes...however, I can take private classes. That's fine. I do it no problem. My instructor is a guy...big deal. If I can't handle it, then I shouldn't be there. That's my viewpoint.

[Dragonzbane76]

Females aren't allowed in group classes

Why??? What's the deal with that?

[SenseiShellie]

Why??? What's the deal with that?


It's a traditional school.

[PangQuan]

well, I can see that anyhow. No matter how much a woman would like, a teacher would like, everyone else would like me to hit, kick, throw a woman, I just cant do it.

Not with full intent and heart. Doesnt matter if they are better than me or not. It's just how I am.

unless of course i am getting attacked in a real situation, which has only happened to me once.....drunk punk rock chicks :rolleyes:

but at that point i just repeatedly pushed her on the ground instead of returning the blows she was raining on my face.

[SenseiShellie]

well, I can see that anyhow. No matter how much a woman would like, a teacher would like, everyone else would like me to hit, kick, throw a woman, I just cant do it.

Not with full intent and heart. Doesnt matter if they are better than me or not. It's just how I am.

unless of course i am getting attacked in a real situation, which has only happened to me once.....drunk punk rock chicks :rolleyes:

but at that point i just repeatedly pushed her on the ground instead of returning the blows she was raining on my face.

If you train with a female, don't you think that you're being disrespectful to her by doing that? You're not helping her train for the streets at all...

[PangQuan]

If you train with a female, don't you think that you're being disrespectful to her by doing that? You're not helping her train for the streets at all...

Exactly. Thats why I dont train with women. I would be fine coaching women to spar/fight other people but not myself. Training pads, drills, form, etc is a different story, I've coached/trained women with this in the past just fine, but I have always had a hesitation problem when actual resistant contact is involved.

I suppose I am speaking more from a striking perspective though.

Grappling I could see being a bit easier, but then at the same time I would be to conscious of whether I am making the woman feel uncomfortable and not being able to properly focus on my own training. Thus dis servicing both parties.

It may be the way I was raised, some aspects of our mental development will forever be with us unfortunately.


I do agree though, if a woman wants to be there she should be prepared to accept the responsibility of her training, though asking a man to fight with a woman I feel is out of place if the man does not want to.

So much history between the sexes in situations like this, society is always be a factor of ones up bringing and will highly influence what people are willing and able to do.

I suppose in short I am up for the idea of mixed sexes training, but I think the man should be able to decide not to fight with women.

[boshea]

If you train with a female, don't you think that you're being disrespectful to her by doing that? You're not helping her train for the streets at all...

From a man's perspective, we have have been taught since early childhood that hitting a woman is wrong, and I think that is a good thing.

We understand your desire as a woman to train with someone who is going to push your limits so that you will learn more, but doing that is in conflict with something deeply engrained in us. No disrespect intended at all. It's just the way we've been brought up, and it's hard to suspend the instinct to go lighter when training with women.

[SenseiShellie]

From a man's perspective, we have have been taught since early childhood that hitting a woman is wrong, and I think that is a good thing.

We understand your desire as a woman to train with someone who is going to push your limits so that you will learn more, but doing that is in conflict with something deeply engrained in us. No disrespect intended at all. It's just the way we've been brought up, and it's hard to suspend the instinct to go lighter when training with women.

I can understand your point of view and won't argue with it as that's how most gentleman are taught to be...and it's nice to know that there are some guys out there that are still gentleman. I guess I was raised differently. I have 2 brothers...I was raised like them. My older brother beat on me so I learned to be tough. When my little brother came along, he bullied both of us equally until we ganged up on him. However, I learned from that. He taught me that I'm just another person to him. That kind of upbringing from him, as well as my dad, brought me to the way I think now. I personally don't see it as guy or girl in the dojo...I see it as a belt color. If I'm supposed to be a black belt, then I need to be as tough as the other black belts. If I'm not, then I need to either figure out how to make myself tougher or find a girlie thing to do. It's like the saying says "If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen."

[Knifefighter]

It's a traditional school.

I'm pretty sure almost all BJJ schools both in the US and in Brazil allow women in the group classes.

What school do you train at?

[SenseiShellie]

I'm pretty sure almost all BJJ schools both in the US and in Brazil allow women in the group classes.

What school do you train at?

The Rickson Gracie Academy. There are only 2 females...me and my instructor's girlfriend...and that's it!

[Knifefighter]

The Rickson Gracie Academy. There are only 2 females...me and my instructor's girlfriend...and that's it!

Rickson doesn't allow women in his group classes????

Hmmm... come to think of it, I don't remember any women being in the regular classes at the Torrance Academy either.

Maybe it is a Gracie thing.

That must be really expensive only being able to do privates.

[SenseiShellie]

Rickson doesn't allow women in his group classes????

Hmmm... come to think of it, I don't remember any women being in the regular classes at the Torrance Academy either.

Maybe it is a Gracie thing.

That must be really expensive only being able to do privates.

Maybe it is...He doesn't though. It's cool because me and my friend get to have a private lesson with his son. He's a really good teacher. Hearing about him competing makes me want to compete when I get better...

[Knifefighter]

Maybe it is...He doesn't though. It's cool because me and my friend get to have a private lesson with his son. He's a really good teacher. Hearing about him competing makes me want to compete when I get better...

Kron is one bada$$ kid. It's amazing how good he has gotten. Can't wait till he competes as a black belt.

BTW, it's never too early to compete. It only makes you better.

[boshea]

I can understand your point of view and won't argue with it as that's how most gentleman are taught to be...and it's nice to know that there are some guys out there that are still gentleman. I guess I was raised differently. I have 2 brothers...I was raised like them. My older brother beat on me so I learned to be tough. When my little brother came along, he bullied both of us equally until we ganged up on him. However, I learned from that. He taught me that I'm just another person to him. That kind of upbringing from him, as well as my dad, brought me to the way I think now. I personally don't see it as guy or girl in the dojo...I see it as a belt color. If I'm supposed to be a black belt, then I need to be as tough as the other black belts. If I'm not, then I need to either figure out how to make myself tougher or find a girlie thing to do. It's like the saying says "If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen."

The ironic thing is that, just going by your posts on these forums, and from how long you have been training, I bet you train harder than me.

I just realized that I may have wandered off-topic a bit because this is a thread about grappling and I have mostly only trained in striking styles, so for now I'll switch into lurker mode in this thread! :p

[SenseiShellie]

Kron is one bada$$ kid. It's amazing how good he has gotten. Can't wait till he competes as a black belt.

BTW, it's never too early to compete. It only makes you better.

Yeah...I'm just a white belt. I'm waiting till he says I'm ready for a couple reasons other than just being a white belt... It's all about the respect thing. I'm older than he is, but man, he is seriously BADA$$ as you state. I can't wait till he gets his black belt...he's a really awesome brown belt. I love studying with him. He treats me and my friend like we are part of the BJJ family even though it's only been a couple months.


The ironic thing is that, just going by your posts on these forums, and from how long you have been training, I bet you train harder than me.

I just realized that I may have wandered off-topic a bit because this is a thread about grappling and I have mostly only trained in striking styles, so for now I'll switch into lurker mode in this thread! :p

My training partner seriously says I'm his inspiration and I'm the toughest chick he's known. I've been KO'ed on numerous occasions to just stand up afterwards and want to continue to spar. I'm his inspiration because I have stage 1 thryoid cancer. I bust my butt on the mat every time I train. Granted that I only last for an hour, I make it the best 1 hour of my life. Sometimes I don't feel like training, but I get up and do it. I train to stay alive at this point, and it's working. I'm almost in remission. I have a couple more rounds of chemo and might actually get to keep my thyroid. I've trained mostly in striking...I'm a Kempo based person. However, I also train in Kickboxing, Boxing, Wrestling, BJJ, Kung Fu and Chen style Taiji. Once I'm better, I want to become a fighter. Because of the thyroid condition that I currently have, I'm 40 lbs overweight for my height category. That doesn't matter though. I'll lose the weight when I'm better and mark my words, you will see me in a ring.

[Knifefighter]

My training partner seriously says I'm his inspiration and I'm the toughest chick he's known. I've been KO'ed on numerous occasions to just stand up afterwards and want to continue to spar. I'm his inspiration because I have stage 1 thryoid cancer. I bust my butt on the mat every time I train. Granted that I only last for an hour, I make it the best 1 hour of my life. Sometimes I don't feel like training, but I get up and do it. I train to stay alive at this point, and it's working. I'm almost in remission. I have a couple more rounds of chemo and might actually get to keep my thyroid. I've trained mostly in striking...I'm a Kempo based person. However, I also train in Kickboxing, Boxing, Wrestling, BJJ, Kung Fu and Chen style Taiji. Once I'm better, I want to become a fighter. Because of the thyroid condition that I currently have, I'm 40 lbs overweight for my height category. That doesn't matter though. I'll lose the weight when I'm better and mark my words, you will see me in a ring.

Wow! That must take a lot of courage and determination to keep training through chemo. I've had friends on chemo and some of them just barely got out of bed.

That's fantastic that you are beating it. Keep at it. I'm sure you are an inspiration to a lot of people.

[boshea]

My training partner seriously says I'm his inspiration and I'm the toughest chick he's known. I've been KO'ed on numerous occasions to just stand up afterwards and want to continue to spar. I'm his inspiration because I have stage 1 thryoid cancer. I bust my butt on the mat every time I train. Granted that I only last for an hour, I make it the best 1 hour of my life. Sometimes I don't feel like training, but I get up and do it. I train to stay alive at this point, and it's working. I'm almost in remission. I have a couple more rounds of chemo and might actually get to keep my thyroid. I've trained mostly in striking...I'm a Kempo based person. However, I also train in Kickboxing, Boxing, Wrestling, BJJ, Kung Fu and Chen style Taiji. Once I'm better, I want to become a fighter. Because of the thyroid condition that I currently have, I'm 40 lbs overweight for my height category. That doesn't matter though. I'll lose the weight when I'm better and mark my words, you will see me in a ring.

I wish you a speedy recovery, and I'm sure that the force of will that it takes to keep training in spite of your thyroid cancer and chemotherapy will pay off one day when you are well.

* EDIT *
I said I would only lurk this thread but I had to respond to that. Heh, I was going to train today and I didn't because I was "tired" but now I feel like a wuss!

[PangQuan]

Shellie,

You're already a fighter, I'm sure your spirit will travel well in what ever you decide to do, with dedication like you have you will dominate your competition in the ring with the training your getting.

I would also like to point out you are more of the exception rather than the rule as to what I have experienced with women training in martial arts.

Definately keep us posted so we can all support you when you do start fighting competativley.

Keep fighting that good fight!

[SenseiShellie]

Wow! That must take a lot of courage and determination to keep training through chemo. I've had friends on chemo and some of them just barely got out of bed.

That's fantastic that you are beating it. Keep at it. I'm sure you are an inspiration to a lot of people.

It sure isn't fun sometimes, but other times it's ok. When I beat it for sure (I have one more 2 month round on the chemo pill) then I'll make sure everyone knows I did it.

[SenseiShellie]

I wish you a speedy recovery, and I'm sure that the force of will that it takes to keep training in spite of your thyroid cancer and chemotherapy will pay off one day when you are well.

* EDIT *
I said I would only lurk this thread but I had to respond to that. Heh, I was going to train today and I didn't because I was "tired" but now I feel like a wuss!

If I stop training, that's when I admit I'm sick...I can't do that. I'm a warrior.

Shellie,

You're already a fighter, I'm sure your spirit will travel well in what ever you decide to do, with dedication like you have you will dominate your competition in the ring with the training your getting.

I would also like to point out you are more of the exception rather than the rule as to what I have experienced with women training in martial arts.

Definately keep us posted so we can all support you when you do start fighting competativley.

Keep fighting that good fight!

I will keep you posted. I am an exception because of the way I was raised...

[Vash]

You're an exceptionally hardcore woman. Looking forward to your progress. Definitely keep us updated!

[Mr Punch]

Better off just renting them once in a while. Once you own them, you never get to touch them.:mad:You had the op?

Thought this thread was about a wrestling competition to win a woman... :( :( :(
Oh well, my wife wouldn't have let me keep one.



Sensei Shellie, all the best: keep fighting.

[SenseiShellie]

You're an exceptionally hardcore woman. Looking forward to your progress. Definitely keep us updated!

Thanks...as of right now, I have a 75% chance of keeping my thyroid. We'll see if I get to keep it after the next 2 months.