Choylayfut leniage question

[bredmond812]

Hello,

I have a friend who is taking Choylayfut from a Doc Faiwong leniage school. She calls him grandmaster. I said, hey, arent Tat Maowang and Lacey also grandmasters? She said no way. I have doubts. Can somebody here educate us?

B Redmond

[CLFNole]

If she calls him grandmaster it is because her sifu is his student. There is no grandmaster title for CLF in itself. Grandmaster or sigung means your students have students otherwise it is a self given title used in the US to show that they have been around for a long time.

[nospam]

Well, I don't know about that - I have my coworkers and neighbors calling me Grandmaster so... :rolleyes:

Ya, what Mr. CLFNole sed.

nospam
:cool:

[Fu-Pau]

Yup
In just the same way that everyone has a grand father, not everyone’s grand father is the same person.

[TenTigers]

it is in my neighborhood!

[Fu-Pow]

The correct term is Sigung=your teacher's teacher.

Master and grandmaster really has no meaning in Chinese Martial Arts....IMO its an ego stroke.

You are either a teacher (Sifu) or you are not.

If you're a Sifu that has students that also have students then you are a Sigung.

If you are a Sifu that has students that also have students that also have students then you are a Sitaigung......etc. etc.

It's a familial relationship, not a title.

FP

[hskwarrior]

Hell, Im just giving away the title!!!!!!:D

[iron_silk]

Hell, Im just giving away the title!!!!!!:D

Frank,

Don't give away something you can sell!!! :p

[CLFNole]

Personally I would like the title "Grand PooBah" of CLF. :D

[Mano Mano]

Personally I would like the title "Grand PooBah" of CLF.
thats my title

[CLFNole]

Darn (see we can't type ****) !!! I want a full inquiry about the copyright infringement. :eek:

[Mano Mano]

Free flight to Florida from the UK for the family summer vacation and it’s yours.

[CLFNole]

Your tickets are in the mail but I have to warn you it is crazy hot here right now and we are in hurricane season.

[Mano Mano]

The title is yours, the heat I hate but love the air-conditioning I love the fact you have air-con in the cars.
I’ve been to Florida three times done the usual tourist places Orlando, Coco beach and the Gulf coast, I love the place. As for the weather my rental got wrecked by hurricane Charlie
Hope to make Florida again next year :-)

[Eddie]

its not the heat - its that wet stickyness that gets to one :cool: . But... right now, Id much rather be up there than be stuck down here.
I think it must be nice to live up in Florida. One of my most favorite places i think.
btw clfnole, where about do you live? Far from the school, or in that area?

[CLFNole]

Eddie:

I live about a half hour drive north from the school. It is kinda between where the two schools are more or less.

[Buk&Hung Sing]

I do know that Tat Mau Wong can be called Sigung since he has promoted his top teachers to Sifu (one has to be a 5th degree to be a Sifu), and therefore the students that his Sifus teach should refer to Tat Mau Wong as Sigung. My Sigung was Lee Koon Hung since my Sifu was Tat Mau Wong.
By the way, though I admire Doc Fai Wong and believe his business plan for teaching in his school is excellent; he does not have the respect of many CLF Sifus. I remember times that Tat Mau Wong rolled his eyes when people mention Doc Fai Wong. My Buk Sing Sifu, Michael Chau also made comments about Doc Fai Wong.

[Buk&Hung Sing]

Are you associated with Lee Koon Hung's student (I forget his name) and his wife the daughter of the Praying Mantis Sifu in Florida? I saw their school on YouTube, excellent!

[CLFNole]

You have it a bit mixed up. John Wai is married to the praying mantis sifu's neice. I am married to LKH's daughter.

[Buk&Hung Sing]

Sorry, I didn't know Lee Koon Hung had a daughter. I had the great pleasure of meeting LKH while I was a student of Tat Mau Wong. I also admire the Wah Lum Sifu in Florida since I was a young man and eventually saw a performance by Yao Li, who had a school in Boston. I always wondered what happened to that kid Derrick Whitehead.
Anyways, its a pleasure corresponding with you.

[CLFNole]

Actually sifu had 3 daughters (a sifu's luck no boys :p). My family is quite close with Chan Pui and his family in Orlando.

[Fu-Pau]

(one has to be a 5th degree to be a Sifu)


Forgive me for asking… but what is a “5th degree”? I presume that it is a distinction that is confined to your Sifu’s school?

My Sigung was Lee Koon Hung since my Sifu was Tat Mau Wong.

My Buk Sing Sifu, Michael Chau ...

Technically speaking of course you can’t have more than one Sifu. Your “Sifu” is your fist kung fu instructor, the other kung fu teachers that you have studied under afterwards (though you can give them the same respect) are not your Sifu, but other teachers… well that’s how I understand it anyway -every one has their own interpretation though.

[ganon313]

Let me clear this out to u because im in the plum blossom branch too. grandmaster doc fai wong is only the grandmaster to the plum blossom federation, meaning the schools all around the world that have the official symbol in every school shirt with a plum blossom petal and yin yang sign in the middle. because it is such a huge federation. the schools, and only the schools consider him a lineage. because Doc Fai Wong's grandfather learned from the original direct lineage of the chan family, they are considered a main lineage.

Depending on ur school, u may have ur own grandmaster. there are normally teachers, a sifu, a master, then a grandmaster, than a greatgrandmaster in a big school.

A sifu is the boss of the school and only one school. he may directly teach students but he could have also tought instructors to teach students. the sifu's sifu is the master, and the masters master is the grandmaster.

In the white dragon schools in san diego CA, there are 7 schools with students, instructors, some chief instructors, the sifu, then the master, Nathan fisher that teaches all the sifu. thr master learns from the grandmaster, Doc fai wong because white dragon is a school part of the plum blossom federation founded by doc fai wong.

[Buk&Hung Sing]

As far as I'm concerned, one can have more than one Sifu, particualrly if you studied from different schools and systems. I learned from Dennis Brown, I call him Mfundi (Sifu), I learned from Tat Mau Wong, I call him Sifu, I learned from Michael Chau (Chau Szhou), I call him Sifu. all of these Sifus have my respect because they are professional martial artists, not observers. Secondly, in TMW school, being a black belt doesn't make one a Sifu (as in other schools), one has to learn all the five animal forms, fighting forms and weapons, et. al. before one can even be close to being a Sifu. This cannot be done prior to reaching the instructor level.
Secondly, let's not over rate Doc Fai Wong, I think he has a great business plan and is instrumental in promoting CLF; I've competed against his son and his students and faired well. I also very much agree with the fact he has on hands training with his top instructors in a "closed door" teaching system; rather than the unfortunate cliques that happened at TMW school. In fact, Sifu Lenguel is one of his top students that was with TMW.
All this talk about which lineage is closer to the true root of the style is just divisive. Radical innovations are important for everything, each Sifu represents an innovation in ideas, some more radical than others. Also, teaching each student should be customized to their own needs, just as I do for each of my patients in Physical Therapy. It makes no sense to have a "cookie cutter" system and try to industrialize a martial arts school or style.

[Buk&Hung Sing]

Forgive me for asking… but what is a “5th degree”? I presume that it is a distinction that is confined to your Sifu’s school?




Technically speaking of course you can’t have more than one Sifu. Your “Sifu” is your fist kung fu instructor, the other kung fu teachers that you have studied under afterwards (though you can give them the same respect) are not your Sifu, but other teachers… well that’s how I understand it anyway -every one has their own interpretation though.

Read my previous post, mate!!:p

[Eddie]

I learned from Dennis Brown, I call him Mfundi (Sifu),

Mfundi? what does this Dennis Brown do? Mfundi is a local african word. Are you doing african MA?

[Buk&Hung Sing]

Dennis Brown, A Northern Shoalin (from the Willie Lin branch) uses Mfundi for himself and one other person; black belts are referred to as Sifu. It's his personal choice as to how he is addressed. There is no doubting his martial arts skills. Watch him do a rope dart form or other hand and weapons forms and you'll see why he has a following.

[Eddie]

hes that guy that was in that video ' sercets of the warrior spirit' or something like that? (Chan Poi and Pan Qing Fu). I have no issue with what he calls himself, neither did I question his skill, was just curious if he is involved in african MA since the term he used to address himself is very unique to this part of the world. I guess he chose that term to try be more in line with his african roots, right?

[Buk&Hung Sing]

Yes, I believe he did. He graced the cover of Inside Kung-Fu several times, IKF Man of the Year and IKF Instructor of the Year. He has a colleague that also calls himself Mfundi, he studied Ethiopian Snake Fiighting as well as Chang Chuan Kung-Fu.

[Buk&Hung Sing]

hes that guy that was in that video ' sercets of the warrior spirit' or something like that? (Chan Poi and Pan Qing Fu). I have no issue with what he calls himself, neither did I question his skill, was just curious if he is involved in african MA since the term he used to address himself is very unique to this part of the world. I guess he chose that term to try be more in line with his african roots, right?

Quite some time ago he was in a film that involved a Chinese dancer coming to the U.S. and naturally he studied Kung-Fu as well. I forget the name though.

You should check out Return of the Scorpion. Lee Koon Hung plays a role in that one and teaches his student H.S. Sui Mui Fa form.

[CLFNole]

Is Return of the Scorpion another name for Duel of the 7 Tigers?

[Buk&Hung Sing]

Is Return of the Scorpion another name for Duel of the 7 Tigers?

I'm not sure about any other title, there probably is another title. This one stars Yang Pan Pan, Lam Man Wei and Philip Ko. On the box it does say seven experts in various martial arts are brought together.

[CLFNole]

Yes than is Duel of the 7 Tigers. You might also want to check out Hung Sing CLF, it has a lot of sifu's students in it as well playing Chan Hueng's students. The movie is rather lame but it is cool watching sifu in it (for the kinda short time it is).

[Buk&Hung Sing]

Where can I find it? I recall LKH also did a part on the Dinah Shore show when I was a youngster, doing the fighting fan form. Of course, I wasn't familiar with him at the time.

[CLFNole]

Really I will have to ask the wife about that one but she might not know.