CMA and groundfighting.

[tattooedmonk]

Remember that the majority of them do have some experience training in cma, however.Very little from what I can see.

[SevenStar]

Very little from what I can see.

says the shaolin do guy.

[tattooedmonk]

since you can prove it, where is your proof? As for the statement, it is not ego at all. you asked a question and pretty much everyone answered it the same on that page. since then it has all been this debate between the same people who responded on the first page. you haven't gotten any new insight from anyone about cma grappling. Consequently, your original discussion ended on the first page. The thread moved beyond the original scope.Well then if you can see your ego in it then you are more f#cked up than I thought.I did not need any new insight about it I just was wondering . Now I know your answer . If you do not have anything positive to contribute and all you want to do is cause problems then kick rocks.

[SevenStar]

Anyway, low blows aside, experience is experience. If you have trained longer than a few years and have not seen groundwork, then how prevalent can it really be? Heck, in judo you learn striking at blackbelt. Should people start recommending judo to learn the striking game?

[SevenStar]

Well then if you can see your ego in it then you are more f#cked up than I thought.I did not need any new insight about it I just was wondering . Now I know your answer . If you do not have anything positive to contribute and all you want to do is cause problems then kick rocks.

considering that we are now on page 18, and there hasn't been any non mma discussion relevant to your question since page ONE, I would think it is safe to assume that the thread has moved past that question...

[tattooedmonk]

Anyway, low blows aside, experience is experience. If you have trained longer than a few years and have not seen groundwork, then how prevalent can it really be? Heck, in judo you learn striking at blackbelt. Should people start recommending judo to learn the striking game?We have already been over this. So much for short term memory.

[tattooedmonk]

considering that we are now on page 18, and there hasn't been any non mma discussion relevant to your question since page ONE, I would think it is safe to assume that the thread has moved past that question...
Only because of guys like you. No one really wants to get involved in a train wreak. And how do you know this . I could be conversing with someone right now about the subject in private and you would have no clue . There goes your ego again.

[SevenStar]

discussion here is circular. you should know that by now.

[SevenStar]

Only because of guys like you. No one really wants to get involved in a train wreak. And how do you know this . I could be conversing with someone right now about the subject in private and you would have no clue . There goes your ego again.

of course it's private... like everything else in CMA.

[tattooedmonk]

...seeing as master killer , seven star, boshea, unkokusai, etc. say that CMA does not have ground fighting it does not . Lets end this thread and take their words for it and no matter what anyone says, posts, knows to the contrary it is null and void because these guys say they are wrong . these guys know everything about martial arts and everyone else is stupid and/or ignorant.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D

[SevenStar]

sounds about right. :rolleyes:

there really haven't been many posts to the contrary anyway. the thought of the train wreck musta scared them off.

[PangQuan]

...seeing as master killer , seven star, boshea, unkokusai, etc. say that CMA does not have ground fighting it does not . Lets end this thread and take their words for it and no matter what anyone says, posts, knows to the contrary it is null and void because these guys say they are wrong . these guys know everything about martial arts and everyone else is stupid and/or ignorant.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D

Can I be an OR instead of an AND? I dont wanna be stupid and ignorant, one is enough for me :D

[tattooedmonk]

says the shaolin do guy. Although the material I have aquired from SD is a large part of what I practice and teach it is hardly the the only source of my knowledge.

[tattooedmonk]

sounds about right. :rolleyes:

there really haven't been many posts to the contrary anyway. the thought of the train wreck musta scared them off.There has been for me. Well it is kinda funny to me seeing as you guys that have very little experience in CMA are the ones knocking everyone's styles of Kung fu.Especially the ones that have no experience in any of the styles they are knocking.

[tattooedmonk]

Can I be an OR instead of an AND? I dont wanna be stupid and ignorant, one is enough for me :DSure, you can be.

[SevenStar]

of course - the private ones.

[bodhitree]

I'm glad some other people picked up the arguement with the retard.

[Knifefighter]

That is, its more about skill then raw strength.

Fighting between skilled people is always a combination of skill, strength, and conditioning. The only time one would not need strength and power would be when he significantly outclassed his opponent.

[Knifefighter]

Sign up for my class if you want the details or better yet go ACTUALLY practice instead of SITTING at your desk antagonizing anyone with an opinion different from your own mr. keyboard warrior.

If someone signed up for your class, how long would it be before these techniques would be shown?

[Knifefighter]

I was not. I started learning chin na/groundfighting my second class. Now I teach it. I understand degrees of movement are limited on the ground . I do not assume anything.

Where do you teach?

[boshea]

...seeing as master killer , seven star, boshea, unkokusai, etc. say that CMA does not have ground fighting it does not . Lets end this thread and take their words for it and no matter what anyone says, posts, knows to the contrary it is null and void because these guys say they are wrong . these guys know everything about martial arts and everyone else is stupid and/or ignorant.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D

I never said that. I don't claim to be an authority on all Chinese martial arts. Where did you see me say that?

BTW, tattooedmonk, are you going to answer my question? What is the name of your martial arts school? Where is it located? Do you have a web site? I answered your questions about my background.

-b

[Knifefighter]

How many CMA schools train their students to deal with an experienced grappler with a solid guard?

There are other effective means of dealing with the guard than just passing it.

[Knifefighter]

To be able to use the taijiquan principles effectively, you must do a complete 180 in comparrison to most other martial arts. The whole point of it is to use as little brute force as possible against all incoming attacks to neutralize and/or redirect them. .

Sounds like you haven't really mixed it up full contact much... there is always lots of force when one is fighting full out.

[SevenStar]

I partially answered as to whom I have trained with . My current teachers and master are my business . I know how the people in this forum knock everyone else's teachers so I am not going to go there.

Just in case you missed it I was first introduced to CMA through CSC /SD.
I studied with Master Sin/ DS and SS for about 15 years.


that is about all of the answer you will get, I am thinking.

[Knifefighter]

There is something about BJJ I would like to know though. My knowledge of it is limited. Is there any internal work or is it an external art?

Can you explain what you mean by internal work?

[PangQuan]

There are other effective means of dealing with the guard than just passing it.

fully, but i didnt say passing it....just dealing with it.

but ya, i get what you mean :p

[MasterKiller]

I have my own school now . I am not affiliated with anyone.

Although the material I have aquired from SD is a large part of what I practice and teach it is hardly the the only source of my knowledge.

Last time I checked, Sin The' didn't like non-SD schools teaching his material. I believe there was a lawsuit about a similar situation...

I hope you got a permission slip.

[tattooedmonk]

Last time I checked, Sin The' didn't like non-SD schools teaching his material. I believe there was a lawsuit about a similar situation...

I hope you got a permission slip.There was and he lost. It is not his material anymore, it is mine.

[RonH]

Sounds like you haven't really mixed it up full contact much... there is always lots of force when one is fighting full out.

Fighting 'full out' with taijiquan is different from most other styles. You need to give up your ego, stop trying to force a situation (using brute force against the attack of someone that's brute force) and blend your body in line with theirs. It's really less hard than what many think would be logical in a street fight situation. In taijiquan, even when you attack, you shouldn't go full bore unless it is absolutely, truly necessary because human targets have very soft tissue mixed in with nerve clusters and blood vessels.

Using a lot of force would be necessary in situations, like where your opponent is wearing some heavy duty body armor and the best tactic you have in the situation is trying to attack them through the armor. Going full bore the whole time is wasteful of energy that you might need later on, if there are additional surprises in the near future.

Yes, there is a lot of brute force often in fights, but a lot of that comes from the sudden increase of adrenaline and the leve of the increase, which is huge. But, this is another reason why slowing down is vital with a style, like taijiquan. Calming down, even further than you are in a relaxed state, keeps the level of adrenaline down. A little is good, but not at the level a lot of people get. It can lead to uncontrolled vibrations and twitches of the muscles, which also wastes energy.

By focusing on smaller and smaller details over an ever increasingly larger number of things, you become more aware of things that are happening over a shorter period of time, which increases your reflexes and can lead to things like preceiving the flash from a gun going off and 'seeing' it stay frozen in the air for what feels like almost a full second when it is really a tiny fraction of a second that the flash lasted.

Can you explain what you mean by internal work?

The conscious development of the qi and its related parts/exercises.

[unkokusai]

There has been for me. Well it is kinda funny to me seeing as you guys that have very little experience in CMA are the ones knocking everyone's styles of Kung fu.Especially the ones that have no experience in any of the styles they are knocking.


Now you're just whining because pretty much no one is buying your bull**** like you expected/demanded they would.

[tattooedmonk]

Now you're just whining because pretty much no one is buying your bull**** like you expected/demanded they would.Actually on the contrary it sounds like you are the one whinning, B!TCH.

[bodhitree]

Very little from what I can see.

I will also add my tcma background.

I have trained with (but do not currently) Yin Cheng Gong Fa (www.ycgf.org), the international bai yuan tongbei quan association (www.tongbei.homestead.com), and steel dragon martial arts (www.steel-dragon.org) (as well as some others)


They are all great martial artists who I have a lot of respect for. One of the senior students in the ycgf lineage is training at a Gracie Jiu Jitsu academy, why? He has great gongfu skills, he trained in china for a decade. He doesn't have the solid ground grappling background he desires.



CMA were developed for the battlefeild, which is why I believe they were a little weary of going to the ground (as one would inevitably get speared). There is no problem with that EXCEPT, when people claim something about those arts that is not accurate.


We are all still waiting for vids.

[tattooedmonk]

I will also add my tcma background.

I have trained with (but do not currently) Yin Cheng Gong Fa (www.ycgf.org), the international bai yuan tongbei quan association (www.tongbei.homestead.com), and steel dragon martial arts (www.steel-dragon.org) (as well as some others)


They are all great martial artists who I have a lot of respect for. One of the senior students in the ycgf lineage is training at a Gracie Jiu Jitsu academy, why? He has great gongfu skills, he trained in china for a decade. He doesn't have the solid ground grappling background he desires.



CMA were developed for the battlefeild, which is why I believe they were a little weary of going to the ground (as one would inevitably get speared). There is no problem with that EXCEPT, when people claim something about those arts that is not accurate.


We are all still waiting for vids.And how long did you train in these places??

I can not account for his teachers who never taught him these aspects of the arts.

Taking someone to the ground and wrestling around for any amount of time can and will get you killed in a war or battlefield with others around . But not all battles in history involved an army of people being around while you fought and not all fights using martial arts were to the death.

I know that these techniques have existed for thousands of years and because of the obvious ramifications,etc. they have been left out or forgotten over the years.

However, it stands to reason that over these thousands of years that humans have been fighting each other that ground grappling is not a modern invention ,only known by certain people or ethnic groups, or only located in certain geographical locations.

Grappling in the modern sense of the word as know to MMA/ sport practitoners is not like that which you would use in a real fight or on the battlefield.. In a real fight anything goes.
they were not used in battle back then like they are used now in sport .

It would get you killed!!!

It was for the intended effect , to end the fight as quick as possible by killing him or maiming him so that he could not flee.

The reason why you can not do/ use any refined type Chin Na in MMA/ Sport fighting is because of the rules and the equipment . Has anyone seen the wrapping and tapeing of the hands that is done prior to these matches, not failing to mention the gloves ??

Your options are limited because of these facts and if you can not see this then you are stupider and more dillusional than I thought.

[Knifefighter]

And how long did you train in these places??

I can not account for his teachers who never taught him these aspects of the arts.

Where is your school?

[boshea]

And how long did you train in these places??

I can not account for his teachers who never taught him these aspects of the arts.

Taking someone to the ground and wrestling around for any amount of time can and will get you killed in a war or battlefield with others around . But not all battles in history involved an army of people being around while you fought and not all fights using martial arts were to the death.

I know that these techniques have existed for thousands of years and because of the obvious ramifications,etc. they have been left out or forgotten over the years.
...


Correct, they have not been forgotten. Read the "History" section of this article about shuai jiao (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuai_jiao).


...

Your options are limited because of these facts and if you can not see this then you are stupider and more dillusional than I thought.

Your tendency to use personal insults gives you less and less credibility. That's too bad.

You also seem willing to call people on every aspect of their martial arts experience (which is ok), but you don't seem to be willing to give us yours. That pretty much wipes out any last bit of credibility that you might have held onto.

So let's hear it. You have mentioned on a few occasions in this thread that you have your own school. What is it called and where is it?

You mentioned before that you don't want to tell us the names of your masters. I respect that and I won't ask you for them. I am interested in hearing about your school.

-b

[unkokusai]

Taking someone to the ground and wrestling around for any amount of time can and will get you killed in a war or battlefield with others around .


I know that these techniques have existed for thousands of years and because of the obvious ramifications,etc. they have been left out or forgotten over the years.

However, it stands to reason

Grappling in the modern sense of the word as know to MMA/ sport practitoners is not like that which you would use in a real fight or on the battlefield.. In a real fight anything goes.


they were not used in battle back then like they are used now in sport .



It would get you killed!!!







I guess you wanted to make sure no one missed the fact that you are a LARPing theory-boy?

[unkokusai]

Actually on the contrary it sounds like you are the one whinning, B!TCH.


Ah, the rubber and glue technique! Very persuasive!:rolleyes:

[tattooedmonk]

Where is your school?I teach in Ventura County.

[tattooedmonk]

Correct, they have not been forgotten. Read the "History" section of this article about shuai jiao (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuai_jiao).



Your tendency to use personal insults gives you less and less credibility. That's too bad.

You also seem willing to call people on every aspect of their martial arts experience (which is ok), but you don't seem to be willing to give us yours. That pretty much wipes out any last bit of credibility that you might have held onto.

So let's hear it. You have mentioned on a few occasions in this thread that you have your own school. What is it called and where is it?

You mentioned before that you don't want to tell us the names of your masters. I respect that and I won't ask you for them. I am interested in hearing about your school.

-b I give what I get . It makes things equal and sometimes shows people the errors of their ways. I believe you can not be insulted unless you accept the insult . I also believe that if someone is being an @$$hole or a d!ck and youtell them so that you not neccesarily trying to insult them but just stating the facts.

[MasterKiller]

Here is his site:

http://www.thewayofshaolin.com/

Oxnard, California.

[tattooedmonk]

I guess you wanted to make sure no one missed the fact that you are a LARPing theory-boy?
you see you keep posting sh!t like this but have done nothing to back up your statements. So how is this just theory?? Also you can stop with the name calling, it is getting old.

[bodhitree]

Also you can stop with the name calling, it is getting old.


If you were not a retarded deuche we wouldn't have to call you names.

[tattooedmonk]

If you were not a retarded deuche we wouldn't have to call you names.Whatever.:rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

So how is this just theory??




Spent a lot of time on ancient battlefields, have you? :rolleyes:

[bodhitree]

Whatever.:rolleyes:


you are a fool

[bodhitree]

a big fool

[tattooedmonk]

uncalled for and immature ...but this figures.

[RonH]

This constant back and forth needs to stop now.

[bodhitree]

This constant back and forth needs to stop now.

You're right. It should stop, but I can't resist while this guy is still talking.

[RonH]

You can resist. The problem you are having is that you don't want to resist. You'd prefer to help continue to bring the thread down.

[unkokusai]

Well, it is about groundfighting...

[bodhitree]

I hardly think I'm responsible for bringing this thread down.

[tattooedmonk]

It does not matter what is posted here ,obviously. Anything we put up will be said to be borrowed and not CMA or what have you.

I would like to post somethings about CMA and groundfighting that were taught to me, before I get my computer fixed ,to lead into what it is that I have to present.

But I am not sure that is possible here.

The only real argument seems to is that there is no standard curriculum and training for teaching groundfighting/ grappling in CMA in almost all schools that can compare to MMA .

It has been talked about and theorized but almost no one can show it;) and the only way supposedly it can be proven is if it goes into the ring.:rolleyes:


We all know that energy, leverage , gravity , anatomy, physiology , tools, and etc. are going to be the same no matter what plane of motion you are on. Correct?? The only difference is going to be how you use it.

Do we not learn how to sweep and take down an opponent ,seize and hold , control distance, protect our vital areas, control our distribution of weight , strategize, etc whether we are on the ground or standing up in CMA or MMA??

The difference here only seems to be that which I pointed out.

because it sure is not for the lack of the techniques being there.

I am just curious how it is that in any CMA school or anyone got the idea that the fight ended as soon as it went to the ground or how anyone did not think they could not end up there in a fight . The thought never even crossed my mind. I have been in real fights before and after I started martial arts and they never were like this .

So how is that any master of the martial fighting arts could not now this unless they never had fought before or used what they learned in a self defense situation??

It sounds pretty improbable to me that any true master of the martial arts would say to their students that either the fight ends if the person goes to the ground and the only ground fighting that goes on is if someone goes to the ground they just punch and kick their way out until they can get back up their feet or whatever.

This sound to me that these people have never practiced practical applications of their art and used them in live sparring . ( NOT TAG LIKE MOST SCHOOLS DO )

I fortunately did not learn this way. I learned how to apply all that I learned standing up /on the ground ,in an offensive / defensive, weapons , etc.

We drilled this stuff everyday . Not like most CSC schools did . Any time we had tests in town or out of town our students tested higher than even the ones under the Soards , not failing to mention that we kicked their a$$e$ too.

The best part of our training is when we had other schools visit outside the system.
We got to see how what we did worked against other schools/ styles and vice versa. or in some cases what did not work. I do the same thing . Not to prove who is better but to make us all better in what we do.

[Knifefighter]

We all know that energy, leverage , gravity , anatomy, physiology , tools, and etc. are going to be the same no matter what plane of motion you are on. Correct?? The only difference is going to be how you use it.

Do we not learn how to sweep and take down an opponent ,seize and hold , control distance, protect our vital areas, control our distribution of weight , strategize, etc whether we are on the ground or standing up in CMA or MMA??

I think this is pretty good evidence that CMA doesn't really have much in the way of groundfighting.

Things are completely different on the ground. You can do things on the ground that you could never do standing, due to the freedom of not having to support yourself with your legs.

Additionally, ground fighting is positionally dependent. If you are on your back, the things you can do are completely different when you are mounted vs. when you have someone in your guard vs. if you have someone in your half guard. Same if you are on the top and in someone's guard vs. mounted or half guard.

The best part of our training is when we had other schools visit outside the system.We got to see how what we did worked against other schools/ styles and vice versa. or in some cases what did not work. I do the same thing .

How often do you do this?

[tattooedmonk]

I think this is pretty good evidence that CMA doesn't really have much in the way of groundfighting.

Things are completely different on the ground. You can do things on the ground that you could never do standing, due to the freedom of not having to support yourself with your legs.

Additionally, ground fighting is positionally dependent. If you are on your back, the things you can do are completely different when you are mounted vs. when you have someone in your guard vs. if you have someone in your half guard. Same if you are on the top and in someone's guard vs. mounted or half guard.



How often do you do this? How so ?I just asked if these were the commonalities with in the systems of fighting. If you noticed I did put etc . Answer the question.

How can they be completely different if they are both fighting and use the same tools??

If they were completely different it would be like comparing cooking to race car driving.
which they are not.

Explain that .

You are focusing on the difference and I am already aware of those differences.

so stop bringing it up.

It is like to different people that worship the same God but fight over it because they call their God completely different names. ( linguistics and symantics.)

I am talking about the similarities and commonalities.

you all see it as being sooo different but it is only different in your minds.

They are not COMPLTELY different.

You may not use your legs to stand on very much like you do in striking arts but a stance is a stance whether you are using it as a base of support , moving around , gaining leverage ,or positioning, etc.

A couple times a month.

please do not take what I say out of context or assume anything . If you question as to what it is that I mean or what I am refering to or something I am not too clear about, then say so. please do not be afraid to ask. It is not that I hard. I am a reasonable person . the only dumb questions are the ones that go unasked

[Knifefighter]

How so ?I just asked if these were the commonalities with in the systems of fighting. If you noticed I did put etc . Answer the question.
How can they be completely different if they are both fighting and use the same tools??
If they were completely different it would be like comparing cooking to race car driving.
which they are not.
Explain that .

Standing vs. the ground are quite different.
- While standing, one is completely free to move around. On the ground, it is the opposite.
- Very few holds and breaks work standing due to the difficulty in controlling the opponent. There are a myriad of holds and breaks that can be done on the ground due to the freedom of the legs and the control that one has over the opponent.
- On the ground, if one is on the top, he wants to shut down the opponent's space.
- The top is the opposite. The bottom person generally wants to create space.
- Hip mobility is vitally important on the ground... not so when standing.
- The tools on the ground are different and used differently. You can't use your legs for holds and locks while standing.
- Gravity acts in a completely different plane on the ground than it does when standing.
- When standing one is looking for angles, to keep the distance or to close the distance. On the ground one is looking for positional dominace.



They are not COMPLTELY different..

Yes they are. The ground is a completely different world. It is like the difference between running on dry land and swimming in the water. One wouldn't try to run in the water, just as he wouldn't try to swim on land. While both are locomotion of the human body, each is a completely different environment and requires a completely different approach.

[tattooedmonk]

Standing vs. the ground are quite different.
- While standing, one is completely free to move around. On the ground, it is the opposite.
- Very few holds and breaks work standing due to the difficulty in controlling the opponent. There are a myriad of holds and breaks that can be done on the ground due to the freedom of the legs and the control that one has over the opponent.
- On the ground, if one is on the top, he wants to shut down the opponent's space.
- The top is the opposite. The bottom person generally wants to create space.
- Hip mobility is vitally important on the ground... not so when standing.
- The tools on the ground are different and used differently. You can't use your legs for holds and locks while standing.
- Gravity acts in a completely different plane on the ground than it does when standing.
- When standing one is looking for angles, to keep the distance or to close the distance. On the ground one is looking for positional dominace.





Yes they are. The ground is a completely different world. It is like the difference between running on dry land and swimming in the water. One wouldn't try to run in the water, just as he wouldn't try to swim on land. While both are locomotion of the human body, each is a completely different environment and requires a completely different approach.
So you are not completely free to move around on the ground?? Then how can you fight from there?? incorrect

I understand you are limted ,like you can not runaway, and other things but this does not mean that you can not freely move around.
just like you can not ground fight if you are running away . It is a trade off and a given.

I am already aware of the holds. there are also holds that you can do standing up that you can not do on the ground.
This is also a given

Some of the best ways to overcome not being able to put a hold on someone is by striking them.:D

So you do not want to lengthen or shorten the gap if you are standing?? incorrect
(you used shut down and create space ), they mean the same thing as mine do.

Depending on what it is that I am looking to acheive I would do either one.( yinyang principle.)

So you do not want your hips to be mobile when you are standing and fighting??
Incorrect .

you always want your hips to be mobile in all dynamic activities.


you can not use your legs for locks and holds while standing?? you better check this one too. incorrect

I understand that the energy of gravity is distributed differently while standing than while grounded.

But gravity still effects you.


This is also a given

So you are not looking for angles when you are on the groundfighting ?? and you do not look for positional dominace when you are standing?? incorrect

How are you going to gain positional dominace if you do not use an angle or various angles to move you in to the position you want to be in to gain that dominance??

As for this last part, incorrect again.

I would run in water for resistance training and I would swim on land if I was doing Tai J Quan.

what you have posted is incorrect.

[RonH]

I hardly think I'm responsible for bringing this thread down.

It is a collective effort.

[unkokusai]

How can they be completely different if they are both fighting and use the same tools??


More proof that theory-boy has no idea.

[tattooedmonk]

More proof that theory-boy has no idea.Why not read all the posts and quit taking what I say out of context, @$$Hole.

[unkokusai]

I would run in water for resistance training and I would swim on land if I was doing Tai J Quan.

Holy crap..............:rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

Why not read all the posts and quit taking what I say out of context, @$$Hole.



What you have to say is very clear, that's what's so ridiculous.

[Shaolin Wookie]

This argument is so simple. CMA trains strikes and chin-na. Chin-na doesn't directly translate into groundfighting. Maybe into some simple defense, but not completely. In nearly every CMA school I've stepped into, I was immediately told never to grab, because it was too easy to counter. This advice usually followed me grabbing my opponent, which to me is a natural reaction. If you grab in CMA sparring, or a combat scenario, the person tugs at it, then stops the action and tells you: "This is why you shouldn't grab...." once the non-compliant partner sparring match has been stopped. This always makes me laugh . Whenever someone stops the action and is like: "You shouldn't have done this. You should have done this....." Well, I either do something or I don't, and it's my responsibility to be able to deal with it while engaged. Anyways.......I'm ranting. :o The difference between MMA/bJJ and this teaching method, is that in BJJ or MMA they'll let the action go, but shout at you "Do this! Don't do that!" while the action is going, and it doesn't stop so that someone can do or not do something. Anyways, I've grabbed, and I still grab. I grab a shirt sleeve, a gi, a belt, wrists, hands, whatever, in order to keep a weapon from striking me, or to set up a strike, or to pin something.

The result? The person being grabbed kind of tugs at it like a dog trying to get a towel from your hands. I've never had any counter executed, ever, in the past couple of years, and much time spent looking at the many local CMA schools. The only exception was when my ring finger got caught in a sparring partner's gi after I grabbed it, and it got twisted funny (and is still in the healing process, keeping me from sparring with it)---(anyone have any tips for maintenance of the finger?).

Really, I've even encountered CMA'ists in several schools who resepect groundfighting and try to employ it. Well, they usually suck. Granted, I'm no gem on the ground. But me being pinned by a BJJ black belt (hell, a blue belt could control me with little effort) was a completely different experience. I was literally helpless. I had opportunities where I could bite, pinch, or scratch, but you also have the knowledge that if you bite the python that's choking you, or wrestling you, it might just decide to break your arm in an armbar.

I encourage any CMAist who touts its groundfighting ability to go roll with some bJJ dudes. It'll rock your world.

The simple truth, that the early Gracies figured out quickly, is that with a little standup training in anything, you can get an excellent standup artist (a Master) onto the ground, and once on the ground, he's absolutely screwed, even if the BJJ guy has only a little training there, too. It's why, to this day, BJJ is king. I love CMA. I only enjoyed bJJ. But I'm observant and humble enough to admit that.

Now, if they'd just lessen their prices, perhaps BJJ would find a greater audience. I was cross-training in it, and it killed my wallet.

A kid with 6 months of BJJ tucked under his white belt is generally good enough to get a black belt on the ground. IF he can get that black belt on the ground, how much training does the black belt have there? Oh, a seminar or two.;). Maybe some fine training principles.

It just doesn't amount to much. It's the calling card of CMA, the one they throw out: "If you understand the principles, but do not train them, they'll get dull, if they were even sharp to begin with." I really am not trolling, just speaking from experience: they really weren't sharp to begin with, even though they were similar. I imagine there may have been some fierce groundfighters in CMA's heydey. Maybe even in Shaolin.

But if you're willing to drop 150/month at your local Gracie Jiu Jitsu school, congrats. You can be better than those fierce groundfighters in no time flat.

Some dude (BB) started teaching BJJ in the back of the capoeira school I attend. Might have to see if he teaches cheap. I've seen him training his students in boxing as well.

[Knifefighter]

what you have posted is incorrect.

Maybe... but considering I have 20 years of standup training followed by another 13 of dedicated ground work, I think I might have a pretty good idea of what I am talking about when it comes to the differences between the two. That, plus the fact that just about everyone else who has significant training in both realms pretty much shares the same opinion.

[Shaolin Wookie]

KF, just out of curiousity, do you train in BJJ, Wrestling, or in MMA? Just wondering if you have a belt in BJJ, what it is, or if you're more into the beltless MMA training.

[Knifefighter]

KF, just out of curiousity, do you train in BJJ, Wrestling, or in MMA? Just wondering if you have a belt in BJJ, what it is, or if you're more into the beltless MMA training.

I do all three, although my main focus these days as I get older is BJJ in which my rank is black belt.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I do all three, although my main focus these days as I get older is BJJ in which my rank is black belt.

Cool. It was funny how many misconceptions I had about MMA and BJJ before I actually did some training in them (2 months or so, not much, but enough to see how stupid i was). Probably as many as CMA, before I trained in that.

Sooner or later, I figure I'll crosstrain in a groundfighting school. Mayble I'll enjoy it more if I give it more time.....

My grad school offers some clinics. I think I might try to get in there (I'm poor)....hahaha.

[MasterKiller]

Wookie, you are so wishy-washy you took the ketchup stain out of my T-shirt.

10 pages ago you were saying all you had to do was break a BJJ black belt's fingers when he took you down.

And didn't you just train 2 WEEKS at that BJJ place? To paraphrase you...Long enough to realize it wasn't for you.

[MasterKiller]

I do all three, although my main focus these days as I get older is BJJ in which my rank is black belt.

And I'll add that while KF and I have been on the opposite ends of many arguments, he is the ONLY guy that's ever posted full-contact fights of himself where NO gloves were used. He might be little, but he's got big balls.

[Shaolin Wookie]

And didn't you just train 2 WEEKS at that BJJ place? To paraphrase you...Long enough to realize it wasn't for you.

That school, that time. Went to another school for the other month. Had a bad situation at the first one (brother flinched and kneed someone in the face, nearly got a beatdown for it----not a good way to conduct a school, threatening students). I stepped in, because my brother looked like he was about to die--and I said something like, chill out bro.....and he then threatened me. Didn't like the mentality--I.E. my brother and I were there precisely to learn how to fight from more experienced people....why would we want to throw down with our instructors?

The second school wasn't 100% BJJ. They only taught it on certain days.

Could break fingers. Against the rules, and he could break my arm. But hey, if I broke enough of 'em.

I don't like BJJ enough to train strictly that. That's what I meant by wasn't for me. I was, at the time, looking to trade off martial arts, or styles, completely.

Would like to train with more friendly people than the ones I did. They were kind of *******s about training, etc.

[RonH]

And I'll add that while KF and I have been on the opposite ends of many arguments, he is the ONLY guy that's ever posted full-contact fights of himself where NO gloves were used. He might be little, but he's got big balls.

I thought he was the tall guy in the last clip of him I saw.

[MasterKiller]

I thought he was the tall guy in the last clip of him I saw.

Not unless he was fighting a hobbit.

[RonH]

I could have sworn that clip I saw was of KnifeFighter. Hmm. Or was it...Fu-Pow? Maybe.

[tattooedmonk]

Maybe... but considering I have 20 years of standup training followed by another 13 of dedicated ground work, I think I might have a pretty good idea of what I am talking about when it comes to the differences between the two. That, plus the fact that just about everyone else who has significant training in both realms pretty much shares the same opinion.
But you did not address my counter . And not everyone is against what I am saying, so there is doubt and question as to whether what you all believe is correct.

I understand the difference between the two but they are two sides to the same coin just like yin yang are two sides of Qi.

I believe and know that there are more similarities than differences, and yes it is important to address these issues, no doubt . But what I am saying is that they have been addressed and were addressed along time ago ...... these skill have been lost and forgotten and rediscovered again, but this does not mean that they did not exist until recently and that some masters have not preserved and passed these things down to their students.

This is my point.

If it was everyone here that dis agreed then I would have to re-evaluate my teachings, knowledge, and skill.

[unkokusai]

I understand the difference between the two but they are two sides to the same coin just like yin yang are two sides of Qi.
.



LOL! Very deep, grasshopper.


:rolleyes:

[Knifefighter]

But you did not address my counter . And not everyone is against what I am saying, so there is doubt and question as to whether what you all believe is correct.

I understand the difference between the two but they are two sides to the same coin just like yin yang are two sides of Qi.

I believe and know that there are more similarities than differences, and yes it is important to address these issues, no doubt . But what I am saying is that they have been addressed and were addressed along time ago ...... these skill have been lost and forgotten and rediscovered again, but this does not mean that they did not exist until recently and that some masters have not preserved and passed these things down to their students..

I notice you have classes in the LA area. Why don't we get together and do some groundwork and see if it really is the same?

[MasterKiller]

I could have sworn that clip I saw was of KnifeFighter. Hmm. Or was it...Fu-Pow? Maybe.

Fu-Pow is like 6'7.

[RonH]

Eh, maybe.

[tattooedmonk]

I notice you have classes in the LA area. Why don't we get together and do some groundwork and see if it really is the same?I do not take online challenges very seriously, but maybe we can arrange something.:D

[Knifefighter]

I do not take online challenges very seriously, but maybe we can arrange something.:D

It's not a challenge. We can just roll. Where in LA are your classes?

[MasterKiller]

It's not a challenge. We can just roll. Where in LA are your classes?

This must be filmed.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It's not a challenge. We can just roll. Where in LA are your classes?

Did you make the Gathering this weekend ?
Sorry I missed it. :(

[Notintheface]

Those of you who seriously practice TCMA should ask your Master about these techniques. In our clan these methods are taught "CLOSED DOOR" to committed, long term disciples not to the casual Lay student.



BS... Video or it didn't happen :) but seriously I would like to see it but do I have to like shave my ass or learn a handshake to get in this "CLOSED DOOR" club.

I love it when people say stuff like this. The reason why it is probably taught closed door because your "master" went and purchased Gracie Bjj tapes 1,2,5 and is passing it off as "purposeful" falling.


Dude get a clue!

BII did not invent this, they are just famous for it.

You are correct, they did not invent it nor did the Kfer claim it until the "MMA" crazy!
HEll, even Shuai Jiao rather finish things off on the ground with a blade.

seems like WL is getting into the crappling craze http://www.wle.com/products/VCN04D.html

[MasterKiller]

seems like WL is getting into the crappling craze http://www.wle.com/products/VCN04D.html

No, the WLE video supports what I've been saying along. CMA ground techniques are based on the assumption that BOTH fighters DO NOT want to be on the ground. Either you take someone down and control them with a lock, or you fall down and attack the still-standing opponent.

[lkfmdc]

The WLE tapes have been around a very long time (IE they were originally VHS tapes, remember those?)

They are like every hapkido self defense technique you have ever seen, guy grabs you in unrealistic manner, never resists, and you do an elaborate technique that results in it looking like you killed him

[Fu-Pow]

The WLE tapes have been around a very long time (IE they were originally VHS tapes, remember those?)

They are like every hapkido self defense technique you have ever seen, guy grabs you in unrealistic manner, never resists, and you do an elaborate technique that results in it looking like you killed him

I have no idea about this video, but I have two comments about these statements.

1) The way you learn a technique initially has to be WITHOUT resistance or else, how can you learn it?

2) "Resisting" Chin Na techniques will almost always get you hurt. Usually, you have to counter the Chin Na without resistance (eg. he twists my wrist around, I don't try to counter the twist by opposing the force, I bend my elbow and hit him in the face with it.)

FP

[Notintheface]

I like your come back:)
But my mom is kind of old... I don't think she could get through all the Cowboys.

but seriously "closed door" is usually how every teacher answer to these situations.

to technique they don't know how to explain,

say to get students to pay discipleship fees of 5k,

or finally tell you so you can stay around knowing dam well when you get there it will
be 10 years later. Plus, he would have bilked you beyond belief.

please forgive me for being an ass and cynical but since UFC 1 there has been an influx of the following:

Oh what they do is not street effective

OH, my root can not be uprooted or what have you

Oh i'll use my chin na to break out, poke an eye or grab a nut

not it is "Wait wait wati I just discovered my art has ground grappling in it but I didn't notice it because the kuen po pages were stuck together"

For example, Ross (Sorry for keep using you as a good example) and Frank Yee students have incorporated ground grappling from Bjj, Wrestling, or Judo. They do not need to reassure themselves about their style but do understand that things do progress.

Many kung fu schools all of a sudden have FOUND grappling. I will forever call BS on that

Peace :)

[Tai-Lik]

From my research , teachings, and practice I have found that CMA does have groundwork . What does everyone think about the existance of CMA groundwork? Not as sport but as an actual application of the material that we are taught.


Hello Tattoedmonk, this is only my experience and opinion. first, i don't get caught up in this argument where people try to generalize ALL CMA, which obviously refers to ALL individual schools and All people within. I'm sure you can find documentation of cma "groundwork" history.

As far back as 1978 in my chinatown gung fu school, we practiced groundfighting techniques using SOME techniques SIMILAR to what i have seen in bjj. when i refer to bjj i'm basing my opinion on my experience through training as a police officer. bjj is extremely popular with most police agencies in our area and has been taught as part of our regular training for the past 10 years (I've been a cop 16 yrs). Admittedly, outside the regular training courses, my bjj police friends do train "groundwork" more extensively than most cma schools i have ever come into contact with. training with my bjj partners has improved my own groundfighting. i'm happy to admit this because also don't get caught up into style vs. style particularly when it comes to groundfighting. fighting is fighting so take what is usual and what will benefit yourself, your school, and your own style.

In my own school we train with old and modern training equipment. from wooden dummies to parallel bags, from stance/footwork training to roadwork etc. we also spend a fair amount of time on the ground practicing escapes.
and of course we spend alot of time applying useful striking techniques and concepts from our style. We call ourselves and our school TCMA and you can call it or classify it however you want. I'm confident that our CMA ancestors wanted us to improve and adapt our fighting ability without it being necessary to give up on our style or family name. I'm Jow Ga. this name doesn't mean to me that i am limited and can't adapt. Most Jow Ga schools train differently and emphasize different aspects of fighting. To me, Jow Ga is my primarily my proud CMA Family name.

i hope that some day maturity and experience will prevail and this argument over style vs. style will stop. sure it's a good idea to compare and critique styles, but unfortunately some peoples good intentions get lost in disrespectful, personal, and childish arguments behind computers. fighting is fighting, but unfortunately some people find this need to feel their name or style is better than someone elses.

sorry for my rambling:D i hope i didn't offend anyone because that certainly wasn't my intentions.

Tai Lik:)

[Knifefighter]

I also know about a couple of Hung Ga exponents who submitted applications but were rejected out of hand as being "too dangerous".......
You are completely full of B.S.

I was there.

No one was rejected because they were too dangerous. It was actually the opposite.

Art Davie, who was the person responsible for bringing in fighters, tried to get the most dangerous fighters he could find because he wanted Rickson to fight. He was hoping that by bringing in the best fighters, Rorion would be forced to have Gracie Jiu Jitsu represented by Rickson (who was much better than Royce, but was not under Rorion's thumb) instead of Royce.

[Knifefighter]

Just a word I don't BS I speak from the heart. The fellow i am talking about is a close friend and well known in LA as well as international circles.

He might be well known, but he wasn't there. If he is telling you people were not allowed because they were too dangerous, he is either lying or very misinformed himself.

Tell you what, you practice yours and I'll practice mine.

Tell you what... talk about yours, but don't tell false stories about mine.

[Fu-Pow]

Whatever Dude.

Just a word I don't BS I speak from the heart. The fellow i am talking about is a close friend and well known in LA as well as international circles.

Hearsay from an anonymous source....well that's sounds very credible:rolleyes:

Hey I have a nice bridge I'd like to sell you. Email me at fu_pow@hotmail.com.

[bakxierboxer]

Hearsay from an anonymous source....well that's sounds very credible:rolleyes:

Not so anonymous that you can't Google him by that name/handle.
If you did that, you might find that he's been teaching quite a bit longer than you've been training.

[Royal Dragon]

In the book Chinese Fast Wrestling, Liang Shou Yu shows a guard pass that would result in the guard passer being caught in a triangle.

Reply]
I have not read through all of this, so forgive me if this was posted before.

In the Book Fast Wrestling, the last chapter coveres ground fighting...and all the demos are by a Judo guy.

Why is that? Because Chinese martial arts just don't have that kind of ground wrestling in them.

[Knifefighter]

I could care less about the stupid UFC nonsense or cage fighters anywhere. That crap has permanently screwed the reputation of martial art.

Then why post B.S. about something you not only could care less about, but are also clueless about?

That crap has permanently screwed the reputation of martial art.

Translation: It's a lot harder to fool people about our pretend lethal kung fu techniques these days when people can see real fighters using real techniques that actually work against other skilled opponents.

[lkfmdc]

In the Book Fast Wrestling, the last chapter coveres ground fighting...and all the demos are by a Judo guy.



He is a lot of things, but a Judo guy is not one of them. As if the "Sanshou DO" thing wasn't cheesey enough, I was embarassed by the ground stuff in that book, it is pretty horrible...



Why is that? Because Chinese martial arts just don't have that kind of ground wrestling in them.



It's a fascinating comparison, the "Sanshou Do" (uck :rolleyes: what a name) crowd compared to Tim Cartmell who has intergrated his CMA with real BJJ...

Shen Wu (Tim Cartmell) is a very impressive guy, and should be the model

[lkfmdc]

By the way, I personally spoke to Rorion Gracie around UFC 3. If anything, he was DYING to get a "real kung fu person" in the UFC. He called our school. Obviously, 70-something Chan Tai San wasn't gonna fight :D and we were smart enough to realize that we were all part time kung fu people, not pro fighters. The "I was too deadly for the UFC" thing is lame, might as well run around calling yourself a secret CIA assassin :rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

Why bother writing in a Kung Fu forum? Don't you got some BJJ to do or something?


I could care less about the stupid UFC nonsense or cage fighters anywhere. That crap has permanently screwed the reputation of martial art

Looks a lot like WWF except not nearly as exciting LOL!

Go lay on the ground and cuddle with a guy for goodness sake. Maybe you and Fu Pow can cuddle on his bridge and rub your knives together.


Oh great, another LARPing loser closet case...:rolleyes:

[synack]

What's wrong with BJJ?

[lkfmdc]

What's wrong with BJJ?

for those who have build ginger bread castles in the air, it threatens to bring the whole thing crashing down....

Other than that...........

[monji112000]

What's wrong with BJJ?

BJJ is great. Its stand up is a joke though. I honestly wish they didn't look at the ground as a all or nothing picture. It would be great if some schools looked at making strikers capable of avoiding the ground, able to escape and get back-up quickly. I am not talking about Blue belt level. I am talking about a curriculum geared to give some one a basic sound ground defense and scramble. I have heard Chuck Liddell, has been training in a similar curriculum.. but when I mention what I am looking for at a few BJJ schools.. i was laughed out the door.

Personally I am not looking to be a BJJ black belt, but they have so many good techniques.. but most BJJ teachers get offended if you want to learn a limited set of techniques, geared for getting back to your feet. I have also found that some none BJJ , catch style stuff its pretty interesting.

I am not saying ground fighting isn't effective, its just that I don't have the time to focus on both standing and ground. JMO

[NJM]

The WLE tapes have been around a very long time (IE they were originally VHS tapes, remember those?)

They are like every hapkido self defense technique you have ever seen, guy grabs you in unrealistic manner, never resists, and you do an elaborate technique that results in it looking like you killed him

Before you start saying that, would you mind giving me an example from the video?

Because we all know that Wing Lam is just out to make a buck... oh, wait, why would he not try every other cheap tactic to sell on his ws as well? Why would he close down his school to paying customers? Do you know how much money he makes off of that website? Do you think he really needs more money? He's not out to become a millionaire. He is an honest to god traditional martial artist. Find me one legit source that says otherwise.

Do you realize that the video clip was not the demonstration but part of the breakdown? Have you ever WATCHED a full WLE video?

[lkfmdc]

1. YES, I've watched every single tape in the series, I have them all, watched the entire thing

2. YES, it's the same sort of stuff you see in Hapkido self defense, defense vs a lazy punch, against a wrist grab, against a head lock, against a choke. Some really unrealitic ground work, one of them literally begging you to break his arm

3. And since he doesn't train those techniques in alive manner against a resisting opponent, even teh ones that might work, won't

but thanks for playing

Before you start saying that, would you mind giving me an example from the video?

Because we all know that Wing Lam is just out to make a buck... oh, wait, why would he not try every other cheap tactic to sell on his ws as well? Why would he close down his school to paying customers? Do you know how much money he makes off of that website? Do you think he really needs more money? He's not out to become a millionaire. He is an honest to god traditional martial artist. Find me one legit source that says otherwise.

Do you realize that the video clip was not the demonstration but part of the breakdown? Have you ever WATCHED a full WLE video?

[Knifefighter]

Now you seem to have a lot of words for me, are you here in Los Angeles? Maybe you'd like to tell me I am clueless in person?

I'd be happy to show you some technique. PM me and we'll set something up.

Afterwards, we can also make a stop at the Gracie Academy and you can talk about how you think the UFC was a set up. I'm sure they would also like to have the chance to tell you you are full of B.S.

]Why the FK are you here in a Chinese martial art forum...

To correct the clueless when they make misinformed comments on things related to MMA and BJJ that they have absolutely no experience with.

[Liddel]

OMG !


Your little UFC show is a tired little affront to martial art and belongs right up there with ninja movies and Chuck Norris posters.:D:D

Chuck Norris was 6/7 time (?) world FULL CONTACT KARATE CHAMPION... Thats not easy mate.

Im NOT a huge fan of Karate,or mullets for that matter, but i give respect where its due, so should YOU :mad:

Back to the BS......

DREW

[tattooedmonk]

I'd be happy to show you some technique. PM me and we'll set something up.

Afterwards, we can also make a stop at the Gracie Academy and you can talk about how you think the UFC was a set up. I'm sure they would also like to have the chance to tell you you are full of B.S.



To correct the clueless when they make misinformed comments on things related to MMA and BJJ that they have absolutely no experience with. Dude , you are the clueless one if you think that they were not set up to favor the Gracies. IT is a business . I am not saying that they do not have skill but most of those guys were punks.

Even the fights now are set up. All professional sports are set up to some degree. Money is the most important aspect in ALL these arenas!!!

And what would taking him to the Gracies prove?? What are they gonna do beat him up, you immature little F#CK?? They probably would laugh no matter if it is true or not . It is something they would never admit.

Anyone in the real business world knows it is true. It is ****ing entertainment and people pay money to be entertained.

The best fighters in the world would not even bother with this type of demonstration.

It is for the most part just what I have said it is.

Get over yourself and get onto another one of your sweaty ass humpers.

[lkfmdc]

Even the fights now are set up. All professional sports are set up to some degree.



and the winner of most clueless person on KFO is..............

[tattooedmonk]

and the winner of most clueless person on KFO is..............
........YOU, lkfmdc!!!!

[lkfmdc]

tattoed moron, let's see you explain the following

if the UFC is fixing fights for business, then why

1. Did Chuck Lidell, whom the UFC invested TONS of money in and sold as their golden boy, get KO'ed with one punch and lose his title

2. Why did Rich Franklin, who was the American poster boy, lose his title to a Brazilian no one had ever heard of and doesn't even speak English?

3. Why, after spending tons of money to bring him over from Pride, and promoting him, did Cro Cop get Ko'ed by a guy with ZERO charisma or public appeal?

4. Why did GSP, whom people LOVE, whom women adore, lose to Matt Serra. Matt's a great BJJ guy, but come on, no charisma at all

If they were fixing fights, they'd certainly have fixed those differently

Face it, you don't have a clue

but at least your posts are funny

[tattooedmonk]

tattoed moron, let's see you explain the following

if the UFC is fixing fights for business, then why

1. Did Chuck Lidell, whom the UFC invested TONS of money in and sold as their golden boy, get KO'ed with one punch and lose his title

2. Why did Rich Franklin, who was the American poster boy, lose his title to a Brazilian no one had ever heard of and doesn't even speak English?

3. Why, after spending tons of money to bring him over from Pride, and promoting him, did Cro Cop get Ko'ed by a guy with ZERO charisma or public appeal?

4. Why did GSP, whom people LOVE, whom women adore, lose to Matt Serra. Matt's a great BJJ guy, but come on, no charisma at all

If they were fixing fights, they'd certainly have fixed those differently

Face it, you don't have a clue

but at least your posts are funny You are forgetting one thing that Americans and people in general love to see more than a hero rise, is for that hero to fall.

Then people realise that they are human and that they are just like us. Then when they rise again ....!!!!

The Liddel thing was a fluke, maybe, or he just under-estimated his opponent, or is just getting to old. Or it was set up. The same holds true for many of these fighters.

All these could have been set up or not . It is hard to say. But what better way to appeal to certain people if an unknown comes in and beats a known fighter??

If there are various scenerios played out it adds variety and unpredicatability factors to the equation.

It is a business and a game.

No matter how much money is put into it, and no matter how much people like any fighter they want to see him lose.

It gets boring and stagnates if the same people win over and over again . People stop paying attention and money if this happens.

DO YOU GET WHAT I AM SAYING???

My final answer,To make more money!!!! and to keep the business alive.!!!

[lkfmdc]

blah blah blah blah

uh, no, can't explain those, because I have no idea what I'm talking about and walked face first into that post



thanks for being so honest :rolleyes:

[Notintheface]

Your little UFC show is a tired little affront to martial art and belongs right up there with ninja movies and Chuck Norris posters.

Omg do you have stock in ashida kim's school or do you sleep with WLE.com guys?

[Knifefighter]

Dude , you are the clueless one if you think that they were not set up to favor the Gracies.

Set up to favor the Gracies? The only set up was that they had been winning these types of fights against all comers for years and years. Rorion even had had an open $100,000 open challenge that was publicized in an article in Playboy in the 80's.

I can't tell you how many "deadly" kung fu guys came into the academy and got completely trounced over the years. Several guys I trained with were ex-kung fu guys who had taken up BJJ after they or their instructors had been beaten up by Gracie students in challenge matches.

[5Animals1Path]

This is why CMA guys never get taken very seriously. Because we're always the first to send in the raving lunatic squad.


This is clearly the most effective way to hide our secrets and learn from everyone at the same time. :rolleyes:

[Notintheface]

I am not challenging you or any thing as mundane as that,

Yes you are.... Fight Fight Fight Fight

this shows that you are so inclined

Maybe you'd like to tell me I am clueless in person?
Like you would do more than try to argue your point :)

I noticed you asked someone to "roll about" so maybe you could show me some of your stunning technique?

GONG SAU *****!!!!!1

I am not challenging you or any thing as mundane as that, (since most of you keyboard warriors are b i t c h made.)

I call this a retraction clause, so you can back out from fighting but then you hit im with a indirect ***** call :)


but I have been involved in the LA martial art circles for over 30 years and I know everyone worth knowing. Who are you? A gracie exponent? Why the FK are you here in a Chinese martial art forum antagonizing people? I am always interested to learn something new.

OMG 30 years of doughnut eating maybe....this also implying that 30 years plus friends known makes you A BAD MAN:)

Always interested in learning something new? Why don't you just say "Yeah come over i'll tear you a new *******!" sigh kung fu larpers...... stop wearing restaurant clothing and let your hair grow back in!!!1

[Notintheface]

The best fighters in the world would not even bother with this type of demonstration.

Lol where are these fighters? Oh wait they are at the temple meditating!!!!

[tattooedmonk]

thanks for being so honest :rolleyes:Exactly what I thought , can not answer these things , always has to resort to your immature tactics, etc. You are a joke.

[Notintheface]

The Liddel thing was a fluke, maybe, or he just under-estimated his opponent, or is just getting to old. Or it was set up. The same holds true for many of these fighters.

All these could have been set up or not . It is hard to say. But what better way to appeal to certain people if an unknown comes in and beats a known fighter??

This one is for the X-files...

Oh wait like the guy who beat Cro cop?

[NJM]

1. YES, I've watched every single tape in the series, I have them all, watched the entire thing

2. YES, it's the same sort of stuff you see in Hapkido self defense, defense vs a lazy punch, against a wrist grab, against a head lock, against a choke. Some really unrealitic ground work, one of them literally begging you to break his arm

3. And since he doesn't train those techniques in alive manner against a resisting opponent, even teh ones that might work, won't

but thanks for playing

You didn't give me that source, so I think that would be a game in my favor. Besides, you just re-stated what you had said before. After watching so many WLE videos, you still don't think you could make those techniques effective if you did them at full speed?

[tattooedmonk]

Set up to favor the Gracies? The only set up was that they had been winning these types of fights against all comers for years and years. Rorion even had had an open $100,000 open challenge that was publicized in an article in Playboy in the 80's.

I can't tell you how many "deadly" kung fu guys came into the academy and got completely trounced over the years. Several guys I trained with were ex-kung fu guys who had taken up BJJ after they or their instructors had been beaten up by Gracie students in challenge matches. DUH!! Fighting someone in their dojo/ venue gives them the advantage, and no real martial artist or self respecting person would do that.

As for the guys that have done this most of them were self proclaimed and where a bunch of hacks .

Deadly my ass, REAL KUNG FU master/ disciples /practitioners WOULD and DO NOT DO THIS.

I have been to the Academy and saw some of these matches, they were a joke.

I also know for a fact that the Gracies turned down alot of these challenges too. Because they knew they might possibly and with high probability would lose.

It was all EGO driven ,macho, BULLSH!T that drove men to try it and for him to even state it. They also knew that if it went to court it would be thrown out and that they would not have to pay it.

It was business and promotion.

Talk about drinking the KOOLAID.

[Notintheface]

You are not allowed to play with others until you take your meds:)

[tattooedmonk]

I should not be allowed to play with others until I take my meds:) I knew something was up here!:D

[Knifefighter]

I also know for a fact that the Gracies turned down alot of these challenges too. Because they knew they might possibly and with high probability would lose..

There was a $100,000 challenge that had been publicized in Playboy. Do you know what would have happened if someone would have been turned down? They would have simply taken it publicly and the Gracies would have been forced to accomodate them... either that or ruin their reputation.

Like I said... you are clueless.
You are also a liar becuase you obviously know no such thing.

[tattooedmonk]

There was a $100,000 challenge that had been publicized in Playboy. Do you know what would have happened if someone would have been turned down? They would have simply taken it publicly and the Gracies would have been forced to accomodate them... either that or ruin their reputation.

Like I said... you are clueless.
You are also a liar becuase you obviously know no such thing. Bullsh!t.

It would have to be proven , and proving this would have to mean more than hear say, which would be most likely the case. There are many reasons and ways as to how and why they could or would or did turn people down.

It is a big liability

Eiither you are the liar or clueless .

Now why are you so defensive huh, getting a little taste for your own medicine??

[Knifefighter]

It would have to be proven , and proving this would have to mean more than hear say, which would be most likely the case. There are many reasons and ways as to how and why they could or would or did turn people down.
Proven? No all that would be needed was heresay. All someone would have needed to do was come out publicly and state that they were unwilling to fight and a fight would quickly have been set up.

Don't you understand how the world works? What are you, about 15?

[tattooedmonk]

Proven? No all that would be needed was heresay. All someone would have needed to do was come out publicly and state that they were unwilling to fight and a fight would quickly have been set up.

Don't you understand how the world works? What are you, about 15?One man's word against another is hearsay and most like likely would not have affected the Gracies as much as you think .......unless they are so ego driven.....oh wait never mind.:rolleyes:,.....

...... maybe you are right, the fight would have been set up after they had been outed and someone said they would not fight , they would do it to save face or they would have had to pay him off not to slander their name or sue him, or many other things,

Not everything can be solved by fighting. What are you about 15??

Not everything is as you see it or know it , the world is not black or white, it is both and everything in between.

You are only lying to yourself if you think that they did not deny to fight certain people and accepted fights that they knew that they could win.

Not saying that some of them were not challenging for them and their students.

I noticed you said nothing about the advantage of it being in their dojo or venue.

[Knifefighter]

I noticed you said nothing about the advantage of it being in their dojo or venue.

That's not much of an advantage at all.

[unkokusai]

Maybe you'd like to tell me I am clueless in person? I am way more well known than I ever meant to be. I am a teacher of traditional martial art with an emphasis on martial. I know everyone worth knowing. Your little UFC show is a tired little affront to martial art and belongs right up there with ninja movies and Chuck Norris posters.:D:D

Oh brother, someone's fixin' to swing his deadly pink purse of death! :rolleyes:

[tattooedmonk]

That's not much of an advantage at all.Total denial . You are full of it.

[unkokusai]

Cage fighting however is barbaric and stupid.


Why? Because you couldn't hope to do it?

[tattooedmonk]

I have sand in my vag!na, can any one help me ?? No thanx .

[tattooedmonk]

Why? Because you couldn't hope to do it with men and animals like I do? whoa!! this is getting freaky.

[tattooedmonk]

Now see there you go.

THE GRACIES ARE NOT TALKING A BUNCH OF S H I T TO ME, you are.
Just because I don't like a TV show NOW I AM IN A FIGHT WITH THE GRACIES???
Typical you are trying to intimidate me with SOMEONE ELSES reputation....

I have great respect for the Gracie clan and their accomplishments.
Cage fighting however is barbaric and stupid. How about we get some lions and start Christian running man???

I wonder how the Gracies would feel knowing some idiot like yourself is stirring up a bunch of stupidity?



Anyway read my PM and lets hang out. Should I bring a knife?:D;):DI see you are getting the same **** from them as I am , just like me you are not taking it. Good for you my friend.

[tattooedmonk]

LARPing? What is that?

Tell me is that a p u s s y under your dress little girl or are you just glad to see me?:)
Wow recmartial arts all over gain! Cool!!Trust me, most of these guys are not even doing Rec martial arts. they watch alot of tv and videos and are sold on the hype and egos of all these sport fighters. They read alot of propaganda and are complete losers. This one has sand in her vag!na.Unko kusai is the sound a vagina makes when it is trying to get sand out of it.

as for larping it is some made up word that these morons use because they do not have a good command of english or any other language. They should get a dictionary and a thesaurus to help them.

[unkokusai]

LARPing? What is that?

Its what you are doing, you silly little poseur.

[unkokusai]

Trust me.

Stop right there. :rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

it is some made up word that these morons use because they do not have a good command of english or any other language. They should get a dictionary and a thesaurus to help them.

Good job humiliating yourself, fool.

[unkokusai]

Sad thing is I attempted to add some personality based ego sparring and cross gender crotch grinding.

Yeah, great job champ! :rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

Would never care to but I'd surly B I T C H S L A P!!!! you......!!!!

Well, if that's what the dice roll and turn of special card says...:rolleyes:

[tattooedmonk]

It is real easy to talk crap from the safety and comfort of the computer console bro. Don't let it get you down. It does not even get me angry but it does make my fingers itch. Notice the time? All those twelveteen potty mouths are in bed while the adults burn the midnight oil. I am just getting home after work, a root canal, some vicoden and teaching three two hour classes.

Sad thing is I attempted to add some positive input here related to the thread CMA and groundfighting and all I got was personality based ego sparring from these twisted little cross gender crotch grinders.

"Never try to teach a pig to whistle. It just frustrates you and annoys the pig..."I agree . It does not . I have been doing MA for 25 years and actually I come here just to let off some steam and help a few people out here and there. This does not even take up a % of my life . it is all in fun whenI talk sh!t to these morons.

Take care of that mouth. If you are taking vicodin then make sure you use a stool softener or eat lot of fiber. That stuff can turn things bad real quick!:D

[tattooedmonk]

B I T C H S L A P!!!! :D Yep that's me poseur! B I T C H S L A P!!!!B I T C H S L A P!!!!B I T C H S L A P!!!!B I T C H S L A P!!!!B I T C H S L A P!!!!B I T C H S L A P!!!!B I T C H S L A P!!!!B I T C H S L A P!!!!B I T C H S L A P!!!!

This is childish yet quite satisfying:p:p:p well you know none of these guys will really step out and take us on. They will keep talking sh!t on line and make on line challenge and and get sand in their vaginas.:D
so this is the only way you can do it. give a b!tch slap to her for me too while you are at it.:D

[synack]

Don't start pulling each other's hair now.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Set up to favor the Gracies? The only set up was that they had been winning these types of fights against all comers for years and years. Rorion even had had an open $100,000 open challenge that was publicized in an article in Playboy in the 80's.

I can't tell you how many "deadly" kung fu guys came into the academy and got completely trounced over the years. Several guys I trained with were ex-kung fu guys who had taken up BJJ after they or their instructors had been beaten up by Gracie students in challenge matches.

To this day, you can pretty much walk into any BJJ or even MMA school and either flat out challenge them or ask for some rolling/sparing time to test yourself.
I did this a few years ago and was smart enough NOT to challenge but to ask for private lessons and was introduced to BJJ by a 2nd ( Leo Santos) and 3rd BB( Wagney Fabiano) and had some most excellent classes with them.

Of course if you want a full out challenge fight you can wait for them in the parking lot, they will be happy to oblige you.

[lkfmdc]

the same crap over and over again.... the "I was too deadly for the UFC" and the "UFC is fixed" ranting and lunatic raves

And the holy trinity, "I know a guy who beat a gracie in a challenge/gracie refused to fight"

NIce try, you still get a big fat ZERO :rolleyes:

I remember the guy who wrote into one of the kung fu magazines claiming he had beaten a Gracie in a challenge match. Like a day later a video of the match showed up on the internet, the guy in question actually got tapped out in under a minute to a triangle

With dudes like this, is it any wonder people don't take kung fu seriously? :rolleyes:

[sanjuro_ronin]

We know that the "undeafeated" claim was BS, nevertheless, they have always been easy to find.

[Royal Dragon]

as for larping it is some made up word that these morons use because they do not have a good command of english or any other language. They should get a dictionary and a thesaurus to help them.

Reply]
Larping is not a made up word. It stands for Live Action Role Playing.

It's something people do when they dress up in midevil armour and pretend to fight out scenes from thier favaorite fatasy board games, or video games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmgLOKRl5J0

[tattooedmonk]

ESPN.com: Chuck Liddell versus Wanderlei Silva. Is it going happen?
DW: God, I hope so. So many people have wanted to see that fight for so many years, and PRIDE basically killed the fight. Now that Chuck has lost, the fight makes more sense, and I'd love to make it happen. We're on the phone every day with fighters and fighters' managers. There's still work to be done.


HMMM??

If you do not live in the real world you would think that Chuck lost because he was not in shape, underestimated his opponent, or it was a fluke .

This lends some crediblity to the belief that these fights are set up to some degree. What better way to make a fight/other fights happen??

This is how the business world works, morons.

[tattooedmonk]

as for larping it is some made up word that these morons use because they do not have a good command of english or any other language. They should get a dictionary and a thesaurus to help them.

Reply]
Larping is not a made up word. It stands for Live Action Role Playing.

It's something people do when they dress up in midevil armour and pretend to fight out scenes from thier favaorite fatasy board games, or video games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmgLOKRl5J0Thanks , I did not know this. No one that I have talked to knew what it was. Even people that used the word.

[unkokusai]

Thanks , I did not know this. .



And yet you've been living it all along...

[Notintheface]

30 years is right with my current teacher. I began martial art at 8, I am 50 now.
Flat abs my little troll boy, 6' 3", 215 Lbs with very little body fat and a full head of hair. I run a few miles per day and actively teach classes daily.

hehe i knew I would hit the self esteem button... so tell us how in shape you are again. Hey post a pic so the world can bask... hey Homer, where do I sign up for your classes lol.

[Notintheface]

Any time you'd care to grow a pair of nuts tell me your name and I'll light a candle and say a prayer for your cowardly retarded a s s. In the mean time get back on the meds

Umm my name is Marcus......why would you say a prayer for me? I am a scientologist...mess with me and Cruz is gonna get you or I'll send John after you!

[lkfmdc]

you're a laugh-riot, took a day and a half to find something, ANYTHING to justify your nonsense, and that's what you found? A random comment in an interview?

Now explain the other 5 upsets mentioned.... hurry up, that's a lot of digging you have to do :rolleyes:

[Notintheface]

Well, I just noticed this. Everyone who gets challenged on the internet always seems 5-8 when they started training, have flat abs, is always taller than 6 ft (6' 3") and over 200 lbs ( 215 Lbs) with very little body fat and a full head of hair. They always do intense running *(run a few miles per day and actively teach classes daily) and talk massive **** when they can't prove their points. Talk about me devolving into gutter talk.

His is starting to read like this- adkaskdhaskldjas;kl GONNA KILL YOU WITH MY TOOTHBRUSH !!!!!1

djkuiofgjhrtk sklfdjdo nrjt GONNA MAKE YOU TAP WITH MY BUTT CHEECKS!!!1

reworhwejrh ASHIDA KIM IS GOD AND IS THE HEAD ABBOT OF SHOALIN!!!!!

I love these type of guys :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

If you look hard enough, you can find a conspiracy in everything.

Psst, Wal-mart is the Anti-Christ by the way.

[lkfmdc]

Wal-mart is the Anti-Christ

tell us something we didn't already know ;)

[Notintheface]

Dam...Lokhopkuen found a mate:( Did anyone make sure he he was fixed?

[sanjuro_ronin]

tell us something we didn't already know ;)

* looks around *

All the woes in the government are cause by pixies...

* looks around and ducks under desk *

[tattooedmonk]

If you look hard enough, you can find a conspiracy in everything.

Psst, Wal-mart is the Anti-Christ by the way.we are not talking conspiracy.

Questions, lets see if you can answer it correctly with a simple yes or no answer( it does not matter whehter you agree or disagree this is not the point), Do you believe that none of the fights in the UFC have ever been fixed or set up to go a certain way for business puposes?? Do you think it is all on the up and up and there are no unpublicized dealings that go in in the business to support this possibilty??

[tattooedmonk]

you're a laugh-riot, took a day and a half to find something, ANYTHING to justify your nonsense, and that's what you found? A random comment in an interview?

Now explain the other 5 upsets mentioned.... hurry up, that's a lot of digging you have to do :rolleyes: I already answered the questions you asked. It was not a day and a half . this was just posted by Gene . I was not looking for anything , this just happened to pop up. If you do not understand that these fights to some degree are set up and guys do take falls then you know nothing about the business and entertainment aspects of this or any other business.You do not live in the real world or understand the real business world works do you??

[lkfmdc]

The world I live in is a heck of a lot more the real world than the fantasy hole you crawled out of.... we know, too deadly for the UFC, the fights are fixed, there is no Gracie challenge, blah blah

It's much more conveinant to wrap yourself in your fantasy land and come up with these absurd "explanations" than face facts....

Wal-mart if having a clearance on all old episodes of "Kung fu the TV series" on VHS, you should run out and get them before they are all gone :rolleyes:

[sanjuro_ronin]

we are not talking conspiracy.

Questions, lets see if you can answer it correctly with a simple yes or no answer( it does not matter whehter you agree or disagree this is not the point), Do you believe that none of the fights in the UFC have ever been fixed or set up to go a certain way for business puposes?? Do you think it is all on the up and up and there are no unpublicized dealings that go in in the business to support this possibilty??

I am sure that there are many "backdoor shenanigins" in the UFC, just like any pro sport.

[tattooedmonk]

The world I live in is a heck of a lot more the real world than the fantasy hole you crawled out of.... we know, too deadly for the UFC, the fights are fixed, there is no Gracie challenge, blah blah

It's much more conveinant to wrap yourself in your fantasy land and come up with these absurd "explanations" than face facts....

Wal-mart if having a clearance on all old episodes of "Kung fu the TV series" on VHS, you should run out and get them before they are all gone :rolleyes: You see I am correct , you are not living in reality because you can not leave the past behind and answer the questions that are asked . You continue to avoid the questions and reply with immature answers that have nothing to do with the topic .

You must have some serious mental problems, get help, and take your meds for Christ's sake.

I talking about what the truth is here , you are the one living in a fantasy woorld if you believe all of these fights are on the up and up and that they are not set up to various degrees to to increase the flow of money , the popularity of the sport, etc.

Talk about drinking the koolaid.:rolleyes:

You are joke

[tattooedmonk]

I am sure that there are many "backdoor shenanigins" in the UFC, just like any pro sport.Exactly my point. Thank you.

[lkfmdc]

Let's recap, according to Tattoo

Aikido is real but the UFC is fake!

The defense rests :rolleyes:

[MasterKiller]

Where is TTM's ground figting video?

I'm sure it will have the answer to why you don't lock your ankles in a RNC.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Exactly my point. Thank you.

you should have said it then instead of insinuating that the UFC was rigged.

[tattooedmonk]

Let's recap, according to Tattoo

Aikido is real but the UFC is fake!

The defense rests :rolleyes: Show where I said this . Where is your proof?? come one @$$wipe if you got the facts correct there should be no problem in showinfg in which post I said this.
Just becuase you say something does not make it true. Stiill taking things out of context and responding immaturely , says a lot about your education.:D

[tattooedmonk]

you should have said it then instead of insinuating that the UFC was rigged.I did say this . I did not say it was rigged . I just did not use your exact words. Read my posts . Just because they say I said it does not make it true. You seem to have more sense and intelligence than most of these guys , lets stay on that path shall we.

[tattooedmonk]

Where is TTM's ground figting video?

I'm sure it will have the answer to why you don't lock your ankles in a RNC. I understand and know why you do not or would not lock the ankles in a RNC and I also understand that if your legs are wrapped around someone whether you are just clipping them into the thighs or you locking at the knee or whatever there is also the opportunity for an ankle lock. Just like there are many other times to do this as well. This is not the only time that this can be used. especially when someone is got you from behind.

[lkfmdc]

Lots of "blah blah blah" from Tattoo, and back tracking and ducking.... yet no posts of substance? Come on, answer the man's question, don't duck out

[tattooedmonk]

Lots of "blah blah blah" from Tattoo, and back tracking and ducking.... yet no posts of substance? Come on, answer the man's question, don't duck out
I have yet to get my computer back from being repaired. All of my videos are on it . I have no back ups or I would have already posted them . I have said this before and I will not say it again. I will post when I get it back

DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I JUST POSTED,YES OR NO???

If I had the time I would just make new ones but I do
not .

Do you understand , yes or no??

[sanjuro_ronin]

I did say this . I did not say it was rigged . I just did not use your exact words. Read my posts . Just because they say I said it does not make it true. You seem to have more sense and intelligence than most of these guys , lets stay on that path shall we.

I said you insinuated and that is what you did.
I have no vested interest in nutriding ANY MA or sport combat activity.
I have been there and done that and have gone past that and see the pros and cons of it all.

The path is a simple one, truth and reality,

[lkfmdc]

uh, my compter's busted, yeah, that's the ticket, busted. New ones? Uh, I'm busy, too busy, yeah, that's it, too busy dating my girlfriend, Morgan Fairchild, you heard me, Morgan Fairchild, my girlfriend! Yeah, that's the ticket

yeah, sure, that's the ticket

[tattooedmonk]

I said you insinuated and that is what you did.
I have no vested interest in nutriding ANY MA or sport combat activity.
I have been there and done that and have gone past that and see the pros and cons of it all.

The path is a simple one, truth and reality,no, I did not. That is how you perceived what I said.:D:cool:

[tattooedmonk]

yeah, sure, everyone knows I am an idiot and like rolling around naked with men. :rolleyes:


Wanna play games troll ,I can play games too.

[sanjuro_ronin]

no, I did not. That is how you perceived what I said.:D:cool:

Insinuation leads to perception, that is why it is best to be clear.
:D

[lkfmdc]

The true sign of the defeated, desperate attempts to be "smart" :rolleyes:

By the way, your ****phobia is showing, and that's usually the sign of a person with closet issues. Dude, if you're gay, come out, this is 2007 and there is nothing wrong with that

[tattooedmonk]

Insinuation leads to perception, that is why it is best to be clear.
:D
I did not insinuate anything. you took it as an insinuation because you took what I said out of context . This is not how I meant it or posted . If you read what I posted I also stated that this was common practice in all sports/ business.

Is this clear to you now??

[tattooedmonk]

The true sign of the defeated, desperate attempts to be "smart" :rolleyes:

By the way, your ****phobia is showing, and that's usually the sign of a person with closet issues. Dude, if you're gay, come out, this is 2007 and there is nothing wrong with that LMAO Whatever. You can try as will but you will not get me to admit things that are not true.

I did ot say anything abot being a Hom o phobe. I just said you liked to roll on the ground with men , if you took that another way then this shows you are the one with the issues not me , and maybe it is about time you come out of the closet.:rolleyes::eek::D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Dude , you are the clueless one if you think that they were not set up to favor the Gracies. IT is a business . I am not saying that they do not have skill but most of those guys were punks.

Even the fights now are set up. All professional sports are set up to some degree. Money is the most important aspect in ALL these arenas!!!

And what would taking him to the Gracies prove?? What are they gonna do beat him up, you immature little F#CK?? They probably would laugh no matter if it is true or not . It is something they would never admit.

Anyone in the real business world knows it is true. It is ****ing entertainment and people pay money to be entertained.

The best fighters in the world would not even bother with this type of demonstration.

It is for the most part just what I have said it is.

Get over yourself and get onto another one of your sweaty ass humpers.

This is what you wrote, SET Up are the words you used, why wouldn't anyone think "rigged" when you say SET UP ?

[lkfmdc]

You can try as will but you will not get me to admit it


in time you'll be more comfortable with yourself and you'll learn to accept yourself

so, now that you've pulled out all your teeth but found out the tooth fairy doesn't exist, what will you do? The world is dying to know!

[tattooedmonk]

This is what you wrote, SET Up are the words you used, why wouldn't anyone think "rigged" when you say SET UP ?

set-up
noun

1. colloq
An arrangement or set of arrangements.
Thesaurus: arrangement, organization, structure, system, order, conditions, circumstances, hierarchy, taxonomy.



set 1 (st) KEY

VERB:
set , set·ting , sets
VERB:
tr.

To put in a specified position; place: set a book on a table.
To put into a specified state: set the prisoner at liberty.

To put into a stable position: set the fence post into a bed of concrete.
To fix firmly or in an immobile manner: He set his jaw and concentrated on flying the plane through the storm.
To restore to a proper and normal state when dislocated or broken: set a broken arm.

To adjust for proper functioning.
To adjust (a saw) by deflecting the teeth.
Nautical To spread open to the wind: set the sails.
To adjust according to a standard.
To adjust (an instrument or device) to a specific point or calibration: set an alarm clock.
To arrange properly for use: set a place for a dinner guest; set a table.
To apply equipment, such as curlers and clips, to (hair) in order to style.
Printing
To arrange (type) into words and sentences preparatory to printing; compose.
To transpose into type.
Music
To compose (music) to fit a given text.
To write (words) to fit a given melodic line.
To arrange scenery on (a theater stage).
To prescribe the unfolding of (a drama or narrative, for instance) in a specific place: a play that is set in Venice.
To prescribe or establish: set a precedent.
To prescribe as a time for: set June 6 as the day of the invasion.
To detail or assign (someone) to a particular duty, service, or station: set the child to cleaning the closets; set guards around the perimeter.
To incite to hostile action: a war that set families against one another.