View Full Version : Banned from traditional competition!
04-10-2001, 11:03 PM
Recently, I attended a traditional karate tournament with intentions of competing. I registered in the appropriate divisions and then awaited for those events to begin.
My first event was self defense, within which I placed 2nd overall.
Sparring was my next event. I ended up being disqualified and barred from ever competing at this tournament again. (admittingly "my fault")
At the beginning of the match, my opponent attempted to execute a side kick, which I intercepted with an oblique kick before he was able to extend it. I was warned for low kicking.
The judges called a clash and reset us.
Next, my opponent attempted a backfist strike to the side of my head. My response was to lop sau while simultaneously delivering a vertical punch to his face. I got the point for this one, but was warned about grabbing.
Next, the set started with my opponent trying to round kick me in the ribs. Instinctivily, I raised a knee up to block his kick. My opponent then proceeded to hyperextend his knee around my shin. Needless to say that he could not continue. They awarded him the match and- disqualified me for using a quote "dangerous technique".
At this point, I'm thinking its overwith, WRONG!
Next, this guy's sensei and friends start hassling me about hurting their friend. One of them even laid hands on me. Its OK though, he let go real quick when I thumbed him in the eye.
Eventhough I was only defending myself, security escorted me from the building and was told that I was no longer welcome at any of their tournaments.
What's the deal? I apologized to the guy. I mean,..its not my fault that the guy wasn't able to put on the brakes in time.
What do you guys think? Was this my fault?
04-10-2001, 11:49 PM
Sounds to me you were doing what comes natural. People often get confused with comparing competition sparring to fighting. Competition Sparring is pretty useless when it comes to a serious street fighter. The last brawls I have been involved some ******* decided to hit me in the face for no reason whatsoever so I gouged his eye, my whole thumb went in his eye socket his screams were deafening. Doubt he will see through it again. After the fight I could not eat properly for several months he damaged my jaw muscles. Another time I squeezed a guys throat til he fell unconscious. Do not get me wrong I do not like to fight, I just take the attitude that I got to mess this guy up before he hurts me bad. and I will avoid fights if possible, cause you can really get permanently damaged. If a practitioner trains in a competition sparring context then when it comes to a serious confrontation he will react like it was a competition, boxing him rather than committing to devastating attacks. But if the attacker is experienced in street fighting he does not give a **** about what competitions he has won it is martial artists own ego that thinks that I should beat this guy cause I am such a champion in such a style. The street fighter does not stick to any rules. Martial artists should remember not to be fooled into thinking they deserve to win just because they study a martial art.
I think you would be best not to bother with competitions at all it can damage you training and effectiveness when confronted with a life threateninfg situation. Your ability is developing just fine. If you reacted naturally as you have done then I would not be remotely bothered about ego pursuits like winning comps. :eek:
04-11-2001, 06:47 PM
Thanks for the reply, and the advice. I think you are right, I might be better off forgeting about competition and concentrate more on training.
04-21-2001, 03:26 AM
you got disqualified because you used your knee to block and he hurt himself.
was there a rule agianst blocking with you shins ect...
and no grabing what kinda bull **** is that.
"Civilize the mind but make savage the body"
04-23-2001, 03:55 AM
That's why I stopped competing - the rules are usually biased towards either kickboxing or karate, and don't recognise kung fu technique.
You have no chance to survive - make your time.
Johnny Hot Shot
04-24-2001, 07:36 PM
Alright, I beleve that it's possible to be a well rounded MA equally skilled in real ife application as well as tournament piont sparring. Kung fu or no. have you guys ever heard of controll? Controll your instinct, be the better of your ferocity. I'm sorry guy but you are at fault as I see it.
04-25-2001, 11:21 PM
No, there were no rules concerning the use of your legs for blocking. Matter of fact, in the "black belt" divisions they even allow some leg kicks to the outer thigh.
I agree with you. Many times, kung fu stylists get a raw deal at karate tournaments.
Yes, I put alot of value on control, and I was in control. Unfortunately, my opponent was not. (Sometimes learning hurts,...alot!)
04-25-2001, 11:40 PM
i can understand the warnings for the stop kick and for the grabbing, if they want to be pussies and not allow those things that's fine.
However i think that it was total bull**** that they kicked you out because he hurt himself and i don't see how blocking with the shin is a dangerous technique.
I do feel that poking that guy in the eye might have been alittle much, it all depends on how he grabbed you and i wouldn't want to take any chances with a bunch of martial artists in my face.
"Civilize the mind but make savage the body"
04-27-2001, 07:58 AM
I have yet to see a sparring competition that is truly open to all styles. You have all of these tournaments advertising that all styles are welcome, yet set rules which are obviously going to advantage one side or another.
I competed in a supposedly all style tournament recently, and after larp sao-ing a couple of times and making some easy traps, I had points deducted for grabbing. As a wing chun man, this basically eliminates my entire fighting style, and instead reduces me to a kickboxing give-and-take style, rather than the free flowing expression the art should be.
I can understand no low kicks, for those with no control, but no trapping leg blocks?? Sounds like a made for karate/tae kwon do tournament to me.
Frustrating, but that is the way the cookie crumbles, sometimes.
05-22-2001, 11:03 PM
Poking the guys eye out is just gay man. I am certain you could just have ignored em instead of destroying the guys eye-vision forever.. That's plain gay... you shouldn't call yourself a martial artist if you start poking some-one's eye out when he just harasses you. Then you should simply call yourself over agressive, and in need of therapy. You could simply have said sorry , put your ego aside for just a couple of seconds!, and left em. Sometimes there is more honour in running then doing some of the **** you pulled off. If he just pushes you there is NO reason to become the agressor...
I do agree with you being mad about the competition though :)
You practice Wing Chun ? COntact me on my icq ! 71470721(my name there is "vision")
05-28-2001, 07:58 PM
Years ago I was travelling and entered a tournament as a lark. Not being experienced outside of my school, I jumped into the sparring without reading the rules, and after the first match was escorted out.
I do not beleive in tag fighting. No matter what anyone says, it has no relation to actual fighting.
If people wonder why thier kung fu looks like kick boxing, its because they are sparring under kickboxing rules.
I wouldn't have poked the guy in the eye, but on the other hand, it was group, they were threatening and they were martial artists, so scr@w'em.
Go find some San Da for practice. Just remember competition fighting isn't everything.
I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.
05-31-2001, 09:15 PM
If you enter a tournament, you are bound by it's rules and are responsible for knowing and understanding them on your own.
Also, you mention that you didn't want to take chances with the guy who you jabbed in the eye cause he was surrounded by his buddies. If that is true (and your story is true) then you acted totally contradictory to your own will. If my friend shoves somebody and that somebody shoves back, whatever...ok lets break it up blah blah. But if my friend shoves someone in anger and they retailiate with a crippling technique, I might not be able to maintain my reserve. Therefore, you actually endangered yourself by taking action.
Action should lead to less danger, I think.
05-31-2001, 10:18 PM
I thumbed the guy's eye, I did not poke it out. His vision is not destroyed. His eye just watered, turned red, and hurt alot.
06-01-2001, 04:18 AM
I'm glad you didn't really hurt the guy, but the potential was there. I just hate to see a guy (especially a martial artist) get burned for being just a bit too excessive. But I wasn't there, perhaps you were completely justified. Really, only you can decide.
06-06-2001, 06:06 PM
gouging the eye is not a ****sexual act
poking something else is!
if poking a mans eye with a finger strike is not martial arts....then what is?
maybe a lack of piety but an eye gouge sure soundz like martial arts to me.
06-08-2001, 07:32 PM
Sounds as if you were using some effective technique. If there was no face contact allowed then I understand why they gave you the warning. Same goes for holding the arms. Did they say no leg checks? All of these rules should have been stated on the first day. If they weren't then you may have grounds for appeal. Of course they usually charge $100 to appeal most cases. Welcome to the DQ Club. Been there. =p As long as you really didn't fight DIRTY or against the rules intentionally then there is no dishonor. Still, part of developing discipline is by conforming to certain rules and still dominating. That shows your superior skill and adaptability. Oh well, there are other tournaments... or you an die your hair and go under an alias next time. =p
"If you and I agree all the time, then one of us is unnecessary."
06-30-2001, 09:58 AM
We always made our sifu happy when we come home from one of those things disqualified.
A transgression is a transgression, there are no rules there either, i know i can't always get away with it but they cross the line i consider their life is forfeit until mine is secure.
The best presentation to give to others is to just admit to being a SOB. Why end of in justification and argument?
07-03-2001, 12:51 AM
Poo on karate!
Yeah. Thumbing people in the eye won't get you far, but you were kinda at fault to begin with.
Sparring to Kung Fu is the same as Football to Wrestling. Sparring is a sport which happens to have a few things in common with Kung Fu. You have to play by the rules, just like a wrestler can't go around breaking arms in football (even though he CAN, and he would beat the other person up, that isn't necessarily the point)
"Life is hard, but so am I." -- The Eels.
07-05-2001, 12:31 AM
If you knew it was traditional competition, then must have had some sort of idea that your techniques were not allowed. If you are going to enter, then you must by their rules. Don't get me wrong, I am a kung fu guy myself, but if you are going to enter a "karate tournament" then you have to play by their rules. If you don't like those rules then don't enter. I have been in many tournaments and have seen all the politics first hand. It seems like you were trying to prove something in a place were no one cares....
07-10-2001, 03:44 AM
You thumbed his eye, and yet nobody REALLY got hurt.
That's good martial arts restraint and technique, particularly if nobody attacked you in retaliation!
07-10-2001, 03:05 PM
By the time these guys first started trying to muscle me, the security guards were already noticing there was a problem.
When I thumbed the guy, they jumped right in and separated us. And then escorted me from the building. Which I guess was right because all they saw was him grab me and me thumb him.
As far as they know, I instigated the incident.
Funny thing is that I've seen the guy who I sparred with since then and he's cool with the whole thing. Doesn't have any hard feelings or anything. He even admits that it was his fault for not controlling his kick. We have become friends and spar pretty regularly.
His knee is OK by the way. No permanent damage, just a sprain.
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