Damo Jinn

[Lamassu]

I'm currently working on this sword form and I have a few questions I need to ask.

1. How many variations are out there? I understand there is a Shaolin version but I would often compare these notes and demonstrations with others and at best, I would recognize only a couple of movements.

2. What's the history behind this sword form, especially in terms of beginner level? I'm not saying any of the roads are particularly difficult for me, but I feel I can better appreciate the form if I became familiar with the history.

I have some techincal questions to ask as well, but I'll post those after I get home from work. Any info on these questions would be greatly appreciated.

[Mega-Foot]

In my branch of Damo Jinn, we combine the katana (or broadword...take your pick) with the nunchaku.

[Lamassu]

In my branch of Damo Jinn, we combine the katana (or broadword...take your pick) with the nunchaku.

okay :confused:

[CLFNole]

There isn't a branch of Damo Jinn. Now you have proven your Shaolin Ninjitsu is a fraud. :mad:

Damo Jinn translates to english as Damo (the Indian priest who sat in the cave at Shaolin Temple, but you already knew that) Straight Sword (jinn (jian) - mandarin or gim (cantonese).

Now go back to "trailer down by the river" and practice your techniques designed to "kill, cripple and maim".

[Lamassu]

Damo Jinn translates to english as Damo (the Indian priest who sat in the cave at Shaolin Temple, but you already knew that) Straight Sword (jinn (jian) - mandarin or gim (cantonese).


Are there any variations that you've noticed with Damo jinn taught in CLF as opposed to the Shaolin version?

[CLFNole]

Actually we don't have Tamo Gim in our lineage. I know they have it in the Chan Family lineage but sorry I can't answer your question. I have seen the name mentioned in other styles as well and I think it would be safe to assume each set is different just as many forms have moi fah (plum flower/blossum) in their name and are different sets. I think they just share the same name and give respect to Tamo.

[Shaolinlueb]

there's a shaolin damo jian. there are many jian forms and some with damo in it. what style are you currently practicing?

[NorthernShaolin]

From what I know there is a Shaolin Damo Sword which is different than the Damo Sword as taught in the Jing Mo schools. The Shaolin Damo sword has two parts and is taught as two separate sets while the Jing Mo's Damo Sword is taught as one sword set. Shaolin Damo and Jing Mo's Damo do not even appear similar.

As mention by CLFNole, Damo is a name that is attached to a given set within a given style to honor Damo as the Indian Priest

[Lamassu]

there's a shaolin damo jian. there are many jian forms and some with damo in it. what style are you currently practicing?

To tell you the truth, I don't know. There used to be a thread on this forum discussing Damo Jinn, and somebody posted a set of illustrations with the moves in sequential order and names translated into english. Now I have about 5-6 years of training in kung fu, and I'm able to connect the moves in a practical sense according to basic martial theory, but since I'm working from paper, as it were, I don't have the benefit of a teacher to guide me and correct my missteps. There used to be a Shaolin kwoon in Chicago off of Wilson street, but has since closed.

Do you know about the thread I'm talking about?

[tattooedmonk]

To tell you the truth, I don't know. There used to be a thread on this forum discussing Damo Jinn, and somebody posted a set of illustrations with the moves in sequential order and names translated into english. Now I have about 5-6 years of training in kung fu, and I'm able to connect the moves in a practical sense according to basic martial theory, but since I'm working from paper, as it were, I don't have the benefit of a teacher to guide me and correct my missteps. There used to be a Shaolin kwoon in Chicago off of Wilson street, but has since closed.

Do you know about the thread I'm talking about?You are going to find that there are many forms with the same name that have no relation to each other other than similar techniques and names in CMA .There are many factors as to why this is so. Do not be discouraged. SD is real shaolin all the forms are authentic. Do not let these guys tell you what is what.....they have no clue.

[CLFNole]

I don't think we were trying to tell him anything, just trying to answer his question. Didn't even realize this was a shaolin do topic but you right I don't live in the Ozark's and have a mullet, so of course I don't have a clue :D

[tattooedmonk]

I don't think we were trying to tell him anything, just trying to answer his question. Didn't even realize this was a shaolin do topic but you right I don't live in the Ozark's and have a mullet, so of course I don't have a clue :DHmmm .......why are you taking offense?? If I was refering to you then you might be offended, if not you would not. Which are you?? And yes he is with SD. .......Be careful as to who you try to make fun or offend. Some of the most intelligent, well educated, and smartest people come from that area.( Hillbilly Country)

[Lamassu]

Okay, I don't want this thread to deteriorate into a pi$$ing contest over Shaolin Do. Yes, I've studied Shaolin Do for over 5 years, and earned my sho-dan rank. Yes, I still practice the forms I've learned over the years, and take great pride in the progress I've made as a martial artist. I'm very grateful for my sifus who've taken the time to instruct me and answer my questions, but this thread has nothing to do with Shaolin Do other than the fact that there isn't a kwoon here in Chicagoland and must therefore look elsewhere to continue my martial training.

Right now, I want to focus on the jinn (jian) and expand my knowledge in that weapon. The only jinn form I learned while studying Shaolin Do in Texas was Tai Chi Jinn 32, and that's not even a Shaolin form. I noticed an earlier thread on this forum concerning the Damo (Tamo) jinn form, and that it was a beginner level form. Beiquan posted his translation of the Damo Jinn form with illustrations from Zhao's book (which can only be found in Chinese). I printed this form out and have been teaching myself this form as best I can without a teacher. So here are some more questions:

1. Is this particular Damo Jinn form in Zhao's book 'Jing Mo', 'Shaolin' or other?

2. Is there a dvd/vcd/any type of media that instructs THIS version of Damo Jinn, the one instructed in Zhao's book?

3. Is there anyone on this forum who is familiar enough with this particular form and willing to answer technical questions I have (since I don't have the benefit of a teacher telling me what I'm doing wrong and how).

Finally, I love training with fellow Shaolin Do students; I have nothing but respect for it's teachers and especially Grandmaster Sin The, but I don't feel the need to restrict myself to only one style of martial art. "I am like a sponge, my mind is so empty", I want to learn and right now I want to learn more jinn forms.

[Sow Choy]

Lamassu,

Good luck on your Jian training... A very difficult weapon to learn without a teacher...

I have learned the Tat Mo straightsword at Shaolin Temple in China, it was very long and didn't have much flashy or acrobatic moves in it. Since then I have forgot more than half of it since the video I took of it has been lost or deleted... But there is a video: http://www.martialartsmart.net/pr-gs007.html

This form is a shorter version of what I remember and I think may help you...

I practice Choy Lay Fut, a southern style not famous for its straight sword, but I have learned Pek Kwar Geem, from Pek Kwar a northern style... And there was so much more technique involved and made me feel like I knew nothing about the sword while learning it... Here is a vid of me performing it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dk2i5b3M1E

But I think that shaolin video will help... Btw, there is a Choy Lay Fut school in Chicago, a very good sifu, a great guy... Sifu Sam Ng in Chinatown: http://www.ngfamilymartialarts.com/

So hope some of this helps or interests you...

Best of Luck...

Joe

[Lamassu]

That's too bad about losing the Damo Jinn video, that would have really come in handy. I'm not really interested in starting another martial art just yet (mostly due to empty pockets), but I've always been curious about CLF and will definetly check it out when finances deem it time to do so.

That Pek Kwar sword form you demonstrated, looked really slick. :) Like I stated earlier, I'm interested in picking up more jian forms. Could you point me in the right direction to where I can pick up instruction? Preferably a video or instructor who's willing to teach me would be best.

[CLFNole]

lamassu:

You could Wing Lam I think he sells some gim sets, one northern shaolin and one southern form. His website is wle.com. Gene might also be able to recommend some gim videos available. You might be better off getting really good at the one you know first then work on picking up a new set or two.

Good luck.

[ninthdrunk]

I've seen videos for a form called san cai jian that I think is really cool. Don't know much about it, but I'm pretty sure it's a somewhat popular form and should be easy to track down a good video.

[Royal Dragon]

Question,
Is the shaolin set, and the Chin Woo set comprised of the same core techniques, just different choreography? Or are the core technique sets different too?

[NorthernShaolin]

Since I know the Jing Mo set and when I saw the Shaolin version in books, I could tell that they are completely different, down to the core.

[CLFNole]

NS:

Buk siu lum also has some gim sets right? Just not called tamo gim.

[Lamassu]

Since I know the Jing Mo set and when I saw the Shaolin version in books, I could tell that they are completely different, down to the core.

Have you looked over Beiquan's illustrations with the translations in the original Tamo thread? Is Zhao's book on Damo jian based on Shaolin or Jing Mo?

[NorthernShaolin]

CLFN,

Yes, BSL has Dragon Shape Sword and Plum Blossom Double Dragon swords

There are many families of sword but the three main branches are Shaolin, Wu Tang and Omei. Dragon Shape and Tamo Sword sets are said to belong to Shaolin branch.

Wing's curriculum also adopted sword set from Wu Tang (Mo Dong), called Tai Yu Sword. His curriculum does not include Tamo Sword.

In addition, WJM's curriculum adopted sword sets from Wu Tang (Mo Dong), called Dragon Phoenix Sword, San Hop Sword, and Tai Yu Sword.

L,

Beiquan's illustrations are from Chao Lin Ho's book from Jing Mo.

[Lamassu]

Beiquan's illustrations are from Chao Lin Ho's book from Jing Mo.

Thank you. I'm about to get off of work in about 1/2 hour, would it be alright if I ask you some technical questions about the form when I get home?

[CLFNole]

Northern Shaolin:

Is the dragon shape sword call Chuen Lung Gim? Excuse the poor spelling as I don't know Yale or Pinyin writing.

[Lamassu]

Okay, I have a couple of technical questions I hope you can answer for me.

1. At the beginning of Road 1 starting with 'Horse treads on fallen blossoms' trasitioning to 'Two Dragons play with pearl', are you supposed to swing the jian to your right or are the images from two different angles?

2. At the end of Road 6 leading into the beginning of Road 7, to transition from 'Turning the horse sword' to 'Golden wheel delivers from disaster' do you skip forward from one posture to the other, or do you rock your weight back into 'Golden wheel'?

3. In the middle of Road 7, is 'willow weaves in the wind' a 360 degree spin or 180?

4. Finally, at the end of Road 8, what could possibly be the practical application of 'looking back to this shore'? It's the only posture in the entire form where you don't have your eyes on your jian; they're in the opposite direction to be precise.

Any light you can shed on these questions would be greatly appreciated and thank you for your help.

[NorthernShaolin]

L,

I really do not know how I can help. But you can ask.

CLFN,

In Cantonese it is Loog Yim Ghim and in Wade it is Lung Hsing Ching.

I guess a better translation would be "Dragon Movement Sword"

[ngokfei]

lamassu

In all honest I don't suggest you continue learning this form from pictures. And no there are no videos of this sword set.

You can pick up very nice instruction sword videos which will be of much better use in self teaching.

yang Jwi Ming's web site offers 3 sword forms which contain the material found in the Damo set.

Or just do a search for the damo sword form of shaolin.

check out this search link from youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jian+gim+sword

[Lamassu]

I appreciate your advice, but I've been studying this form for a couple of months now, and I'm growing more and more comfortable with the sequence of movements. Of course, learning from a dvd would be better, and learning from a sifu ideal, but until I find one I'll continue with my personal study. "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

Jing Mo Damo Jian won't be the only sword form I'll learn, I plan on picking up several various instructional dvd's including San Cai Jian (thank you for the suggestion Ninth Drunk), but first I want to be familiar with this one before I start learning a new one.

Unless somebody out there knows the answers to my previous questions concerning Jing Mo Damo Jian, I'm going to assume the following when practicing this form:

1. The beginning of Road One, the first three images are shown at a different angle to illustrate the motion of the 'spirit sword' hand.

2. In Road Seven, the 'weaving willow' posture is an 180 degree turn, it seems more practical than a 360.

3. When transitioning to the 'Golden Wheel' posture in Road Seven, I will rock my weight to the back leg into a reverse bow stance.

4. At the end of Road Eight, 'Points to the shore' is a feint to put multiple opponents off guard.

I'm sure there will be errors in my interpretation of this form, but I find this intriguing in trying to learn a form strictly from paper. I feel these past couple of months have excercised my knowledge of martial theory, and if nothing else I may have made my own version of the form. A Lamassu Damo Jian if you will. :p

[NorthernShaolin]

L,

Answer to Q1:

Swing the sword to the right, and turn your body to the right and slide the left leg back to right bow. Sword cuts downwards to a horizonal position.

A2 to Q2:

From Turning Horse to Golden Wheel, you turn to the left 180 degrees and step up with your right leg into a right bow stance. Then turn back to the right 180 degrees, turning on your right foot while stepping back with your left leg. Drop down into the low stance as shown while swing the sword from the left side of your body, over your head and chop downards with a vertical cut.

A3 to Q3:

After right kick, plant right foot down, turn on the right foot 180 degrees to the left, step back with the left foot and go into a left cat stance and turn the sword to block as pictured.

A4 to Q4:

Practical application is a strike to your opponent's soft spot, i.e., eyes, throat, etc. The left hand with two fingers represents the sword finger symbolizes a sword and is referred to as the sword finger. Some historians thought at one time it is a symbol of what was once was another sword in the left hand because in time before Shaolin, some warriors fought battles on horseback and used two very long swords to fight other fighters on horse back.

[Lamassu]

Thank you for your help. I appreciate you answering my questions and now the form has more fluidity when I practice it. Which kwoon taught you this form, if you don't mind me asking, and do they have one here in Chicagoland? :)

[NorthernShaolin]

I learned this set many years ago from my sifu, Wong Jack Man at the Jing Mo Association. As far as I know, there are no authorize Jing Mo schools in your area.

[GeneChing]

We discussed the BSL Dragon Movements Straight Sword on our old lyric thread. (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13414)