shaolin-do and video comparisons to non-sd version

[oasis]

decided to start a new thread after leto's and sal's discussion of a form. with youtube video discussions and comparisons are fun and a lot easier, so i thought i'd put out a few links for sders to discuss more specifics. it should hopefully be interesting.

first, here are four roads of hua quan to view and compare to sd (not necessarily the performance but similarity/differences in technique and style)

road 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67acdZcvnHA

road 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAH2YytlWf8&mode=related&search=

road 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW7tUXPO7yM&mode=related&search=

and road 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq3f_by1GJQ

has anyone studied sd's 'pick and play mantis'? if so, compare to this:
this is one road of zhai yao from praying mantis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4S3PNzfTWg

enjoy

[Leto]

That is very very close to pick and play mantis I learned from master The. The first ten or fifteen moves are identical. a few things have different emphasis, and there's some different techniques that we don't have. But that is the form, without a doubt. If that is just one road of the form, then GM The only teaches one road of it.
I have heard that different styles of mantis have their own variation of this form. do you know what mantis school that video is from?

[tattooedmonk]

decided to start a new thread after leto's and sal's discussion of a form. with youtube video discussions and comparisons are fun and a lot easier, so i thought i'd put out a few links for sders to discuss more specifics. it should hopefully be interesting.

first, here are four roads of hua quan to view and compare to sd (not necessarily the performance but similarity/differences in technique and style)

road 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67acdZcvnHA

road 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAH2YytlWf8&mode=related&search=

road 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW7tUXPO7yM&mode=related&search=

and road 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq3f_by1GJQ

has anyone studied sd's 'pick and play mantis'? if so, compare to this:
this is one road of zhai yao from praying mantis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4S3PNzfTWg

enjoyare these the SD versions??

[oasis]

not at all. those are clips from traditional hua quan, but i'm sure those who have learned sd hua will see some interesting similarities. i thought this thread can be a spot for people to discuss those forms they've tried to research and for which they've found similar versions from outside the system.

[oasis]

regarding zhao yao in the clip, i believe this is the seven star (qi xing) version. i've also seen the taiji mei hua version a while back and it was just as similar, but with the mei hua flavor. i think there are 3 or 4 roads. zhao yao means essentials.

[kwaichang]

All 4 are very similar to SD Hua and Mantis, The 3rd road especially. KC

[Judge Pen]

I can call off the hua move for move. A couple of stylistic differences. Like in the 2nd and 4th roads, we do not catch oursleves with our hands on the drop kicks. Things like that.

[Crushing Fist]

To me it kind of looked like he just didn't want to fall on the asphalt...



can't really blame him either :p


There are definite stylistic differences, but the forms are pretty much the same.

[Judge Pen]

To me it kind of looked like he just didn't want to fall on the asphalt...



can't really blame him either :p


There are definite stylistic differences, but the forms are pretty much the same.

Nah, the woman does it too. I will say that most of the techniques are done a bit more athletically in SD, but they do have nice stances.

[godzillakungfu]

Yeah, I'd have to agree with JP. Minor stylistic differences.

The pick and play is very close to what I learned from a Master over here on the west.

[Leto]

A five ancestors version of san zhan (san he chien)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yla9j0AangU

I think this is the closest version I've seen to the one taught in SD, so far.

the opening and closing attack sequences are different, but the stepping sequence hand techniques are identical (except he's doing it with fajing instead of the total dynamic tension that's taught in SD)

[Leto]

http://www.hsing-i.com/pa_kua/pbody.html

this isn't a video, but look at the form lyrics near the bottom of the page. Lung Hsin (Dragon Heart) Bagua form...the move names are very similar to Sd's, and the sections seem to be in the same order according to the walks (5th section spread wings, 7th section lion, 8th heavenly horse)

haven't been able to find any videos of a form by this name, though, wonder what it looks like.
Anyone else ever heard of the dragon heart bagua form?

The guy on the site sounds a little fishy from his bio. For all we know, the form he lists there could have been learned from SD and given a snazzy name.

[oasis]

i've always enjoyed this guy's take on applications, as can be seen in his chen applications demo clip:

http://www.hsing-i.com/pics/index.html

he demonstrates thorough understanding and skill in my opinion

[Judge Pen]

http://www.hsing-i.com/pa_kua/pbody.html

this isn't a video, but look at the form lyrics near the bottom of the page. Lung Hsin (Dragon Heart) Bagua form...the move names are very similar to Sd's, and the sections seem to be in the same order according to the walks (5th section spread wings, 7th section lion, 8th heavenly horse)

haven't been able to find any videos of a form by this name, though, wonder what it looks like.
Anyone else ever heard of the dragon heart bagua form?

The guy on the site sounds a little fishy from his bio. For all we know, the form he lists there could have been learned from SD and given a snazzy name.

Leto, do a search for "Jiang Ronqiao's Bagua zhang" or whatever variation of the romanization and you will find plenty of versions of SD's classical PaKua.

[Judge Pen]

A five ancestors version of san zhan (san he chien)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yla9j0AangU

I think this is the closest version I've seen to the one taught in SD, so far.

the opening and closing attack sequences are different, but the stepping sequence hand techniques are identical (except he's doing it with fajing instead of the total dynamic tension that's taught in SD)


Kewl hat and shades! Seriously, thanks for posting that. I've seen some vids of Okinawan karate and fujian white crane that were very similar to Sannjie chien as well.

[Judge Pen]

i've always enjoyed this guy's take on applications, as can be seen in his chen applications demo clip:

http://www.hsing-i.com/pics/index.html

he demonstrates thorough understanding and skill in my opinion

I agree. I found that guy early in my research into Hsing-Ie and was impressed.

[Leto]

I want to believe that "dragon heart" is the name of the "classical" form, and that the guy on the site has learned it from an independent source. The lyrics are pretty much in exactly the right order. If he's legit, how cool would that be?

from a youtube video of the form you mentioned : "Ahh it's the Jiang Rong Qiao long form excluuuuuuuusive. This form comes from the Zhang Zhao Dong branch of Ba Gua"...you think that's where our bagua style comes from? Zhang Zhao Dong branch?

http://www.jiangschool.com/ZhangZhao-Dong.htm

it looks likely, being a hsing i "flavored" bagua, the same as the "dragon heart" form is described on the hsing i.com site. SD seems to have more Hsing I than the other internal arts, maybe master Ie was also primarily a Hsing I man, supplemented with a little Bagua and Taiji.

[Leto]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl2mvyjHYS0

This is ours pretty much exactly. He does more cloud hands repetitions, his stepping and kicking is slightly different, and his fairy working shuttles is a little different. This must be one GM The picked up later, after he was in USA? Or someone taught it to him one of the times he visited home?

[Judge Pen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl2mvyjHYS0

This is ours pretty much exactly. He does more cloud hands repetitions, his stepping and kicking is slightly different, and his fairy working shuttles is a little different. This must be one GM The picked up later, after he was in USA? Or someone taught it to him one of the times he visited home?


Tai chi 37 is almost identical to our tai chi 64 (counting differences between postures and steps). My understanding is that the standard tia chi 24 is the one that was learned later. This form is the standardized wushu 24 and the most practiced tai chi form out there, so it was taught to us later so we would have this form in addition to our 64. At least to my understanding.

[Leto]

In the west we didn't have a 64, we called it yang style 37 posture. yes, the 24 posture combined style must definately have also been learned later, because it is a modern wushu invention. Of course, what is "later"? I guess Cheng Man Ching's short form could have been circulating around southeast asia by the late fifties or early sixties, when GM The was still a student of Master Ie...there is certainly a group of Cheng's style students in Indonesia, though how long they've been there and where exactly I don't know.

That leaves the 83 posture chen style form, which I never got a chance to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1tQk920wFo part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANuuFvHsrJQ&mode=related&search= part2

does this one look familiar?

[Baqualin]

http://www.hsing-i.com/pa_kua/pbody.html

this isn't a video, but look at the form lyrics near the bottom of the page. Lung Hsin (Dragon Heart) Bagua form...the move names are very similar to Sd's, and the sections seem to be in the same order according to the walks (5th section spread wings, 7th section lion, 8th heavenly horse)

haven't been able to find any videos of a form by this name, though, wonder what it looks like.
Anyone else ever heard of the dragon heart bagua form?

The guy on the site sounds a little fishy from his bio. For all we know, the form he lists there could have been learned from SD and given a snazzy name.

That's Mike Patterson...he's the real deal. Our classical Pakua is also called the orginal form by some schools & is depicted in Jerry Allen Johnson's / Joseph Crandell's book Classical Pakua Chang Fighting Systems & Weapons, along with the Lineage....Chiang Jung-Ch'iao a student of Chang Chao-Tung who was a student of Tung Hai-Ch'uan...it's a very common form. It was the first Pakua form learned by GMS from GMIe....for insight to Chen 83 google George Xu
BQ

[Baqualin]

Tai chi 37 is almost identical to our tai chi 64 (counting differences between postures and steps). My understanding is that the standard tia chi 24 is the one that was learned later. This form is the standardized wushu 24 and the most practiced tai chi form out there, so it was taught to us later so we would have this form in addition to our 64. At least to my understanding.

You are correct on this JP....Tai Chi 64 was taught to us in the early 70's...I learned it in 75....forms like 24 & Fan he taught out in the early 90's both after trips home to Indonesia...one of GMIe's colleages was a Chen Master & won a large tournement in China with the Fan form....but GMIe had it all which was passed on to GMS ....he has picked up nothing outside of the original school in Indonesia. There's still tons (years) of material...Internal & external yet to come.
BQ

[Baqualin]

In the west we didn't have a 64, we called it yang style 37 posture. yes, the 24 posture combined style must definately have also been learned later, because it is a modern wushu invention. Of course, what is "later"? I guess Cheng Man Ching's short form could have been circulating around southeast asia by the late fifties or early sixties, when GM The was still a student of Master Ie...there is certainly a group of Cheng's style students in Indonesia, though how long they've been there and where exactly I don't know.

That leaves the 83 posture chen style form, which I never got a chance to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1tQk920wFo part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANuuFvHsrJQ&mode=related&search= part2

does this one look familiar?

It's the same as our 83...just performed a little different...the George Xu version is a little closer.

[Judge Pen]

You are correct on this JP

First time for everything.

Tai Chi 64 was taught to us in the early 70's...I learned it in 75

Small world. That's the year I was born. :p

[Leto]

Is it possible that some material comes from lineages that have been in Indonesia little longer? I saw something called white crane silat, which comes from western java (the same area as Bandung), and claims descent from Chinese martial arts. Could our bird and crane forms be related to a silat style more directly than to Chinese/shaolin styles? I'm really curious about the white crane and bird forms, haven't seen anything like them anywhere else. The crane forms have some vague relation to Chinese crane styles I've seen, like one legged stance, and some whipping attacks. I have by no means seen every Chinese crane style or form, but I haven't seen any crane styles rolling or doing ground attacks like ours do. I know many styles may have ground work like this. What style do you think ours are related to? Or are they a GM Ie innovation, or an innovation of one of the other Indonesian teachers?

[Baqualin]

Is it possible that some material comes from lineages that have been in Indonesia little longer? I saw something called white crane silat, which comes from western java (the same area as Bandung), and claims descent from Chinese martial arts. Could our bird and crane forms be related to a silat style more directly than to Chinese/shaolin styles? I'm really curious about the white crane and bird forms, haven't seen anything like them anywhere else. The crane forms have some vague relation to Chinese crane styles I've seen, like one legged stance, and some whipping attacks. I have by no means seen every Chinese crane style or form, but I haven't seen any crane styles rolling or doing ground attacks like ours do. I know many styles may have ground work like this. What style do you think ours are related to? Or are they a GM Ie innovation, or an innovation of one of the other Indonesian teachers?

I do know one of GMIe's colleages was a white crane master and the teacher of GMS's brother Master Hiang. I also know that GMIe would only teach Chinese...so it's doubtful there's any Indonesian blending.

[Leto]

What type of white crane do you think he was a master of? southern or northern? Our forms don't look like tibetan crane...they don't really look like fujian crane or the crane of choy li fut and hung gar either. Are there any other, or were there ever any other crane forms taught? I've heard of white crane strikes out, taught in seminar form, it never came around when I was there. Are there any others?

Any more info on the birds? Were they taught by the same master who passed out the cranes? Is Tai Peng form related to them, or is that a whole different system, too? I know master Hiang teaches a whole 18 form set of tai peng forms, of which our three "shaolin" birds aren't a part.

Maybe SD birds and cranes are just their own style, and not closely related to anything that still exists in China. Maybe they were family styles, that were unique.

Kung Pao, if you're reading...you left SD to pursue a crane style, right? What style did you find? Does anything you do there resemble the SD forms you learned? have any rolling, drop kicks, or kicking from the ground?

I'm just rambling and speculating here. Anyone have any videos of crane or bird styles that look like ours?

[Baqualin]

What type of white crane do you think he was a master of? southern or northern? Our forms don't look like tibetan crane...they don't really look like fujian crane or the crane of choy li fut and hung gar either. Are there any other, or were there ever any other crane forms taught? I've heard of white crane strikes out, taught in seminar form, it never came around when I was there. Are there any others?

Any more info on the birds? Were they taught by the same master who passed out the cranes? Is Tai Peng form related to them, or is that a whole different system, too? I know master Hiang teaches a whole 18 form set of tai peng forms, of which our three "shaolin" birds aren't a part.

Maybe SD birds and cranes are just their own style, and not closely related to anything that still exists in China. Maybe they were family styles, that were unique.

Kung Pao, if you're reading...you left SD to pursue a crane style, right? What style did you find? Does anything you do there resemble the SD forms you learned? have any rolling, drop kicks, or kicking from the ground?

I'm just rambling and speculating here. Anyone have any videos of crane or bird styles that look like ours?

I only study SD internal, so I'm not really up on that part of our system other than some of the general history...Kung Pao, JP & others can help you there.

[Judge Pen]

What type of white crane do you think he was a master of? southern or northern? Our forms don't look like tibetan crane...they don't really look like fujian crane or the crane of choy li fut and hung gar either. Are there any other, or were there ever any other crane forms taught? I've heard of white crane strikes out, taught in seminar form, it never came around when I was there. Are there any others?

Any more info on the birds? Were they taught by the same master who passed out the cranes? Is Tai Peng form related to them, or is that a whole different system, too? I know master Hiang teaches a whole 18 form set of tai peng forms, of which our three "shaolin" birds aren't a part.

Maybe SD birds and cranes are just their own style, and not closely related to anything that still exists in China. Maybe they were family styles, that were unique.

Kung Pao, if you're reading...you left SD to pursue a crane style, right? What style did you find? Does anything you do there resemble the SD forms you learned? have any rolling, drop kicks, or kicking from the ground?

I'm just rambling and speculating here. Anyone have any videos of crane or bird styles that look like ours?


You're right, they don't resemble the examples of fujian white crane that I've seen (although SanNjie does and it is taught with the cranes). It also doesn't look like the Tibetian styles that I've seen. I've heard it said that they may be O-Mei, but I have no real evidence to that. I was curious to hear more about Kung Pao's experience too.

[Kung Pao]

I find resonance in the opening movements, strikes, and such (especially 2nd and 3rd crane), but not so much in the gorundwork and else. I practice the 3rd crane ground sweeps in my shaolin white crane with my teacher, but there aren't any in my forms. Mostly just front sweeps like in 3rd crane, without the punching. He insists there are lots of sweeps in crane, including the 3rd crane's ground sweeps, and we do practice them in crane drills. But they're missing from the forms. IT's why I always say SD's crane forms have lots of value.

. He practices a "family" style he got from his father, but it's not at all like SD's forms in flavor. It's Fujien crane in flavor. I know it's not Tibetan at all. What "family style" means is that it's modified shaolin crane according to his father's preference, without any posing. Unfortunately, modern shaolin (even the traditional shaolin taught nowadays) has lots of posing. Authentic or not, posing is for posers lol. But I'd say my white crane style still resembles modern-traditional crane than SD's when I do forms. Theres lots of qigong. They're much longer, and much more imitative of a crane, and teach shaking jin, hip movement, and the subtleties of vibration techniques. SD's forms (the 4 I have) don't really do that at all, but I see places where you could, and consequently, where I do practice that way. But in application, they're pound-for-pound the same as SD, and it's all about application, right? The closest thing to my direct movements are in 4 dorr break (is that right?). The elementary crane form. You konw the direction change movement, clear acrooss chest, switch to false leg with one hand clearing high over head in a beak?

I have that movement as two separate blocking techniques several times in my forms, but never together. More often than not, after one clear, it's a side hand strike combo, not two clears together. SD's cranes are more condensed technique with less performance art. It's why I think sD has much value.

Don't take some of these guys on here too seriously. or me, even.

[Kung Pao]

Also, there's more complicated kicking. SD's forms are more like training sequences than artistic forms. It's why some of SD's claims as real shaolin are actually valid, at least in principle, if not truth. There's far more training method in the forms than my cranes. Mine you have to interpret. Yours you just have to break down and practice. Alas, that SD didn't have an extensive crane program. From what I've gathered, original shaolin, older shaolin, was much more like SD's forms than mine, but the training mehtods were more like mine, less like yours.

Then again, I dont think it would have had as much subtlety or qi gong in the cirriculum in SD.

Can't have your cake and eat it too.

It's like 2 different methods of learning the same thing, with different understanding of hte material because of the routes.

Personally, I like my current teacher's method much better. But not everyone learns the same way.

edit: Oh, also, now that I think of it. You know the "crane circles" in 1st crane? That's a foundational movment. It can be done large and small, standing or kneeling. I do iti all the time. When I started, it was almost all that I did for 3-4 weeks, seriously. Not emphasised in SD. It should be, though. It's cool to see a crane master in motion. His arms move like water, they're so loose and relaxed. Even more so than tai chi, I think. If you did SD's forms as slowly and fluidly as you liked, or were able, it would be more accurate, according to my teacherr. And there aren't really any "breaks". The arm-breaks are more like slap blocks for stepping in and past your opponent, or for shoulder control. Another crane technique to set up for qinna---and there's tons of qinna in crane.

It's also thefoundational blocking method in Okinawan karate.

To practice this, we do a blend of push hands and chi sao, whcih he calls push-arms. It's forearm contact push=hands. I think they do it in Chen tai chi. It's not techniqcally crane, I don't think, but my teacher's variation of it is fantastic. It applies to real-fighting. You use two hands and must keep them up, but not as close as chi sau. And it's not as slow or "sensitivity" oriented as push-hands. It's about fluidity and circularity, and moving to the outside ASAP or joint locking. If it's indeed Chen drill, I'd like to know. So if any of you know, tell me. My teacher doesn't know for sure where his father got that drill. We don't do tai chi. That's what our qi gong's for.

Our push-arms is very precise in it's purpose. You move to the outside ASAP and clear the hands. There aren't pushing and pulling tehcniques. It's just movign the arms aside with "break" type motions and such.

Rarely dod I feel useful in these internet converstations. I guess Ipicked the right time to show up here, lol.

[ninthdrunk]

I'd heard se meng tao lian referred to as a crane form before from other schools. Does anyone have any info on why this is?

[Judge Pen]

I'd heard se meng tao lian referred to as a crane form before from other schools. Does anyone have any info on why this is?


I hadn't heard that before (except the crane beak near the beginning of the form). I always thought of it as a training form and more of a set of excercises/drills since it was so very basic. Either that, or a small part of a larger form that just isn't taught (like our tai pang form). I could see a comparision to Fukinese White Crane if it were played differently, but I never really considered that angle before.

[Leto]

zong he quan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7iBK9T0qW8&mode=related&search=

Fuzhou white crane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9COem96Urw

neither of these are equivalent to anything in SD, but I posted them as a comparison for the white crane forms. I think that whoever said Si men tao lie is a white crane form is right. It's been seperated from its roots, lost its power generation method, and become too rigid. If it was practiced with looser hands, employing shaking and whipping power, and shortened the stances a little, it might show a new purpose.

with kung pao's observations, it might even be possible that our white crane forms are from southern white crane as well. If the correct power generation was emphasised and practiced, they would look much more like other southern white crane styles. I'm not sure where the rolls and drop kicks came from, but I like them, so they can stay ;)

[Leto]

This isn't the same as our buddha fist form, but it is called a "buddhist tai chi fist", and seems to have some similarity.
I was told when learning ours that during a visit, one of the fellows at wudang temple performed a form very much like ours and explained that it was a very old style that came before tai chi.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1501361658783490794&q=shaolin+buddha+fist&hl=en

Has anyone else learned the SD Fu chia chien, Buddha fist? Ever see anything else like it, anywhere? Anyone know any "Buddha fist" forms from anywhere else, in any internal arts? It may be derived from shaolin qigong sets...what do you think?

[Kung Pao]

In Shaolin Crane, one of the beginner forms is called Four way/ door break. That's what Se Meng Tao Lian kind of substitutes for in the SD cirriculum.

It is not the same form.

I agree with th eguy who says its just a training regimen. It gives you some principles of crane strikes. Very fitting for the SD cirriculum....as you kind of get an overview of,....what was it? Tiger, crane, mantis, and something else early on....just to get a taste of them.

[Kung Pao]

I enjoyed th edemos, kind of. Not quite the exact same thinkg I do, but close in some regards. Reminds me more of myh qigong....and maybe that was.

As for SD forms and wether or not they have the same principles....they do, but since you learn them alongside much "harder" styles, like tiger, or mantis (which are really quite fluid in intent and look, but have a more rigid structure than crane--whcih kind of flows much differently). I'd be willing to bet my Se Meng whatever:o looks much different than yours nowadays, but only because that's my focus, you know? You can't really be taught softness....you just have to practice. Think of a crane, and how it might imitate a human, rather than vice versa, lol.


I hat those one step demos though. I hate it whenever one guy steps back, and then throws a punch, and th emaster annihilates him. Of course....it's prearranged, and he knows what's coming, and how he's going to react with what maneuver, and its usually ass slow.:eek:

I atteneded a seminar long ago with Brennan "Lai, and he performed 7star applications with a complete stranger. He asked the guy to attack him, and the guy stepped back, then stepped forward. Brennan stopped him, told him to attack realistically, as fast as he could, kick, punch, whatever. Give no hint of th eattack. just attack what's open.

He performed every application perfectly, without knowing what was coming at him except what he could forsea. Holy crap, that man was the fastest I've ever seen. He could read an offense before you prepd it.

He then told everyone never practice those "step back step forward punching routines unles you're in your first 6 months of kung fu. Otherwise, you need to practice against a jab, hook, or else.

Good advise.

[Crushing Fist]

This isn't the same as our buddha fist form, but it is called a "buddhist tai chi fist", and seems to have some similarity.
I was told when learning ours that during a visit, one of the fellows at wudang temple performed a form very much like ours and explained that it was a very old style that came before tai chi.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1501361658783490794&q=shaolin+buddha+fist&hl=en

Has anyone else learned the SD Fu chia chien, Buddha fist? Ever see anything else like it, anywhere? Anyone know any "Buddha fist" forms from anywhere else, in any internal arts? It may be derived from shaolin qigong sets...what do you think?


Are you referring to Tai Ci Quan "Fist of Grand Ultimate Mercy" aka "Buddha Family Fist"?

The opening of the form in that clip was strikingly similar but the rest of it was more like SDs Chen Tai Chi than anything else.

[Baqualin]

Are you referring to Tai Ci Quan "Fist of Grand Ultimate Mercy" aka "Buddha Family Fist"?

The opening of the form in that clip was strikingly similar but the rest of it was more like SDs Chen Tai Chi than anything else.

Hey CF
I believe Leto is, talking about Tai Che chien, which as you said, is not Buddha fist, but Buddha family fist & the top form in the Buddha Family system...I'm told it predates Tai Chi. I have yet to see it anywhere else. The form in the clip I've seen before as the Tai Chi done at modern Shaolin....it looks like their take on Chen to me.;)

[Kung Pao]

Shaolin, making up forms? Surely not.

Honestly 3/4 of every form they do is posing. The rest is just a roundhouse or a straight punch, and the gratuitous 360 kick.

Sometimes I think they just make it up on the fly.

[Leto]

Bringing back this thread, with some long videos of all kinds of stuff.

In part one, mostly watching Hung I Hsiang demonstrating Chin Na, and I presume some of his students doing a Hsing I two person set, and the Hsing I linkage form, has similarities to things that are done in SD and CSC. Maybe someone will find something else in there that looks familiar.

The rest of the videos are just interesting. There's mantis forms in there, white crane, some longfist styles, it looks like one guy doing ditang ground techniques, a couple other two person sets, and some jian fa at the end, too.

Maybe these videos have already circulated around the forum, I don't know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5XMIQrvinM&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFle3ms8TbM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imOPzsc95LA&mode=related&search=

anyone recognize any of the other demonstrators, besides Hung i Hsiang?