Internal Arts in San Diego

[rlittlejohn]

Friends,

If you are in the San Diego, California area and are interested in the Internal Arts- than this is for you. This is some the best training you will ever find for the price. I have been classically trained, however, I don't do it for the money. I have another job.

I am now teaching at Holiday Park in the City of Carlsbad on Sunday mornings from 9a.m. to 11a.m.

If anybody is up for a little Tai Chi, Xingyi, Bagua, Swords, or Spears- please look me up. I am not really that far from South Orange County, if you're serious about learning. Have a great 2007!


Sincerely,
rlittlejohn
www.kungfuheaven.com

[Anone]

I went to your website...

I wonder who promoted Steve Cotter to the rank of "Sifu"? Wasn't he kicked out of Mike Patterson's school and removed from the lineage of Hsu Hong Chi back in the 90's?

And weren't you also once a student of Mike Patterson and also asked to leave? I remember something about you and Steve filing a restraining order alleging that Mr. Patterson had sent some ninjas after you two or some such nonsense...

So you are a "Sifu" now too, huh? My how the world has changed. It used to be that real skill was what mattered. Now, it seems that useless titles are what peope think to be important.

Oh well...

[lunghushan]

I went to your website...

I wonder who promoted Steve Cotter to the rank of "Sifu"? Wasn't he kicked out of Mike Patterson's school and removed from the lineage of Hsu Hong Chi back in the 90's?

And weren't you also once a student of Mike Patterson and also asked to leave? I remember something about you and Steve filing a restraining order alleging that Mr. Patterson had sent some ninjas after you two or some such nonsense...

So you are a "Sifu" now too, huh? My how the world has changed. It used to be that real skill was what mattered. Now, it seems that useless titles are what peope think to be important.

Oh well...

Just because somebody's kicked out means NOTHING AT ALL. It could mean the instructor's wife doesn't like you, it could mean you decided to do some teaching when they didn't want you to, it could mean you didn't pay your yearly dues, it could mean any number of things.

So just the fact they're 'kicked out' means NOTHING. WHY did such a thing happen? That's the question.

But if there was a restraining order about ninjas, that is pretty funny, because of an argument I once had with Andrea Cheng. If it's true about the restraining order, no wonder she flipped out so much over such a simple thing. LOL

Okay, somebody's gotta tell me this story. Did Steve Cotter change his name or something? Because if you look at their site, they've got ******* ed out the name of a bunch of winners of the competitions in 1998.

http://web.archive.org/web/19980524180614/www.hsing-i.com/school_awards/index.html

Then it says Steven Paul in 2000.

http://web.archive.org/web/20000411043721/www.hsing-i.com/school_awards/index.html

It's back in 2006 to Steve Cotter.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060307040903/www.hsing-i.com/school_awards/index.html

Now it says Steve C.

http://www.hsing-i.com/school_awards/index.html

Was there really some restraining order?

[QuaiJohnCain]

(Message Removed)

[Anone]

Just because somebody's kicked out means NOTHING AT ALL. It could mean the instructor's wife doesn't like you, it could mean you decided to do some teaching when they didn't want you to, it could mean you didn't pay your yearly dues, it could mean any number of things.

So just the fact they're 'kicked out' means NOTHING. WHY did such a thing happen? That's the question.

Good call lunghushan...

It could also mean conduct unbecoming, or attempting to undermine the School's viability by telling students that the school you were working for would be closing soon, or taking existing students to your house and doing private lessons at cost while telling them it was on behalf of the school, or "borrowing" from petty cash but not returning the funds, or filing a ridiculous restraining order and then dropping a vile hand written letter through the schools mail slot attempting to incite the teacher to violence, or any number of things...

Was there really some restraining order?

Many, many people saw it served.

As for the "name changes" of Steve Cotter; It is my understanding that the "Steven Paul" was a transfer of a misprint that occurred in Inside Kung Fu Magazine from the original article. The other differences are likely due to the numerous "legal protests" filed by Mr. Cotter over the use of his name on Mr. Patterson's website over the years. It appears it was settled upon as it reads now. It is understandable that Mr. Cotter was bitter, both for being "kicked out" as a student and for being terminated as an employee of that organization.

[lunghushan]

Good call lunghushan...

It could also mean conduct unbecoming, or attempting to undermine the School's viability by telling students that the school you were working for would be closing soon, or taking existing students to your house and doing private lessons at cost while telling them it was on behalf of the school, or "borrowing" from petty cash but not returning the funds, or filing a ridiculous restraining order and then dropping a vile hand written letter through the schools mail slot attempting to incite the teacher to violence, or any number of things...

...

It is understandable that Mr. Cotter was bitter, both for being "kicked out" as a student and for being terminated as an employee of that organization.

Well, it is also very bad to place slanderous things on a website or even insinuate them, while doing it anonymously so that people can't respond or verify it. Such a thing doesn't lend any credence to your remarks and is pretty villainous. It only looks like you're trying to cause trouble.

I've been through enough martial arts political squabbles that pretty much I think everybody should just keep to themselves. Such things only instigate more bad blood, and since without any backup evidence we don't know what really happened, I think people should keep to themselves. Plus, people in their youth sometimes make mistakes, and I don't think they should be judged when they're older on those mistakes.

And please keep in mind that I have no affiliation with any of these people. I had about 3 conversations with Andrea Cheng, and met Mike Patterson once, and have never met Steve Cotter.

But what went on between them is none of my business, except that all of that explains perhaps why Andrea responded the way she did in my conversations with her. Funny stuff. LOL

[Anone]

..while doing it anonymously so that people can't respond or verify it. Such a thing doesn't lend any credence to your remarks and is pretty villainous.

That's funny. I don't see any information in your public profile telling us who you are to lend anything to your credibility either.

..and since without any backup evidence we don't know what really happened,

Why don't you email Mr. Patterson and ask him? He seems to be a very amiable fellow when it comes to questions. And his email address is public domain on his website last I looked. I think most people in the IMA world find his word rather credible.

Plus, people in their youth sometimes make mistakes, and I don't think they should be judged when they're older on those mistakes.

This is probably the most sensible thing I have seen you write on this issue. I agree to a point. But my experience tells me that people don't ever really change their base nature but instead simply get better at concealing same.

For example: I have noticed on several websites (i.e. bodybuilders.com) that Steve Cotter likes to say he was a "Bronze Medalist" in the 1996 World Tournament in Taiwan. That's an interesting perspective given that he was defeated handily in the second round by a French fighter and received no award what-so-ever. Instead he clings to the fact that the entire U.S. team took 3rd place overall as coached under Mr. Patterson and, as a result, they all received "Bronze Medals" as being part of the U.S. Team. Now, I suppose many people may think; Well, he still did in fact receive a Bronze Medal, right? But he implies that it was for his "fighting prowess" which is a far cry from the truth. Even the U.S. team photographer received a Bronze Medal in this fashion. I think more often Leopards don't shed their spots, they only become mutated and sometimes larger over time.

[lunghushan]

That's funny. I don't see any information in your public profile telling us who you are to lend anything to your credibility either.


I'm not the one running around spreading information about people. The only reason I responded to this topic at all was because of my past dealings and the fact that there was a response to my conversation that was wholly unexpected.

In light of the events that you have detailed, assuming there is at least some truth to it, that response is no longer so unexpected -- in fact, it pretty much makes sense now.

Why don't you email Mr. Patterson and ask him? He seems to be a very amiable fellow when it comes to questions. And his email address is public domain on his website last I looked. I think most people in the IMA world find his word rather credible.

I emailed him and Andrea, when asking about classes. Andrea responded, but Mr. Patterson never responded to my emails. In fact, she suggested I email him, but he never responded even though I assumed she would have said something to him. I emailed him 3 or 4 times and he never responded. I had even considered moving to Vegas at one point to study with him, but given the fact that he only seems to be doing private lessons anymore that's not something that I want to pursue.

For example: I have noticed on several websites (i.e. bodybuilders.com) that Steve Cotter likes to say he was a "Bronze Medalist" in the 1996 World Tournament in Taiwan. That's an interesting perspective given that he was defeated handily in the second round by a French fighter and received no award what-so-ever. Instead he clings to the fact that the entire U.S. team took 3rd place overall as coached under Mr. Patterson and, as a result, they all received "Bronze Medals" as being part of the U.S. Team. Now, I suppose many people may think; Well, he still did in fact receive a Bronze Medal, right? But he implies that it was for his "fighting prowess" which is a far cry from the truth. Even the U.S. team photographer received a Bronze Medal in this fashion. I think more often Leopards don't shed their spots, they only become mutated and sometimes larger over time.

WHO THE HELL CARES??? Steve Cotter has done his own work and appears to be doing Kettlebells now. Supposedly he isn't even teaching CMA anymore.

But you are saying that the information on this link is incorrect as for the first place finishes by Mr. Cotter at two tournaments?

http://www.hsing-i.com/school_awards/index.html

Bottom line is people come onto boards b*tching about people for one reason and one reason only, because they have something against them. Either they're jealous, or they have a vendetta against them because the person did something to make them mad in the past, or they have something to gain by putting them down.

So which is it with you, Anone?

But I have to tell you that it is this exact political CRAP that is the reason I don't go to practice groups and I don't study anymore at schools. It is because of people like YOU that there is so much bad blood in martial arts, spreading slanders all around.

I don't know anything about rlittlejohn or Steve Cotter beyond the fact that Steve Cotter seems to have a successful career now with kettlebells, but anybody like rlittlejohn who teaches without charging people a ton of $ or playing stupid political games seems like he should be supported in that, rather than put down for some conflict that happened 10 years ago.

[lunghushan]

So let's play Court T.V. for a moment. Who would gain by putting down Mr. Littlejohn? Who would gain by putting down Mr. Cotter?

It would probably be somebody who either doesn't like them, or stands to lose students or money by a teacher who teaches for low cost.

Somebody who just doesn't like them probably wouldn't waste time posting, and given that most people on this board who run schools seem to be on here for promoting, let's assume for a moment that it could be somebody teaching in San Diego, who used to be a student of Mr. Patterson's, and is familiar with the situation.

So let's Google "hsing-i" and "san diego" and Patterson and see who is still teaching down in San Diego. Hmmm ... I guess I won't post the link to cause further problems, but we can all do the Google search.

[QuaiJohnCain]

(Message Removed)

[Anone]

..but he never responded even though I assumed she would have said something to him. I emailed him 3 or 4 times and he never responded.

It is no secret that he has always been selective in terms of who he will teach and who he will not (a real rarity these days). Perhaps you just didn't make the grade?


Either they're jealous, or they have a vendetta against them because the person did something to make them mad in the past, or they have something to gain by putting them down.

So which is it with you, Anone?

Maybe I just enjoy poking "internet tigers" such as yourself to see how long and loud they growl.

The bottom line here people is that there are a great many "stories" out there on the web about different individuals, groups, etc. that are told by many and repeated by many more as the gospel when the original poster is usually just some pompous jerk that has never even bothered to check the facts. If nobody ever steps forward to state a contrary view (which is what I have been doing all along) the story of the day goes into the log as "true".

So, when I see something that I know to be an "untruth" through direct knowledge or experience, I tend to state the version I am familiar with in an effort to keep a level playing field in terms of the "truth".

There are stories right now on the web that are absurd. For example, Vince Black now likes to claim that HE taught Mr. Patterson. Anyone bothering to check facts in a variety of places could easily determine that to be untrue, yet it is bandied from one board to another as "true".

The net is powerful, make no mistake about that. But do bother to do some "sleuthing" before passing on whatever is read as "true".

Btw, I believe the link that lunghushan was trying to intimate is www.sandiegohsing-i.com

Remember, it was lunghushan that spawned all of this rhetoric. My original comment was leveled at Rueben Littlejohn, someone I know first hand to not have the skill he is boasting of on his website.

[lunghushan]

It is no secret that he has always been selective in terms of who he will teach and who he will not (a real rarity these days). Perhaps you just didn't make the grade?


Yeah, that's why they signed me up for a contract and were really happy about it until Andrea flipped out over an address issue. Turns out given what you've said about the restraining order, I unknowingly brought up a bad issue.

And as for the selectivity, I didn't even meet Sifu Patterson before Andrea signed me up for a contract. I only watched one class. He can't be very selective if he doesn't even meet people before signing them up.

I chose not to study there. Not the other way around.

Remember, it was lunghushan that spawned all of this rhetoric. My original comment was leveled at Rueben Littlejohn, someone I know first hand to not have the skill he is boasting of on his website.

??? I started all your B.S. ??? I wanted somebody to tell me about the restraining order, not put up a bunch of slanders.

Anyways, whatever ... the ironic thing to all of this is that I was considering on going down to SD to take classes from the same site you posted when I found out that Patterson was only doing privates in Vegas. I think now I will just avoid your entire group. Seems pretty messed up, IMHO.

[QuaiJohnCain]

(Message Removed)

[lunghushan]

The thing is, this is what is destroying CMA is all this infighting. Meantime the MMA guys go, "Oh, those guys can't fight." Well they fight plenty well with each other, although not with martial arts. LOL

I've met plenty of people who got tired of dealing with this kind of crap so they quit martial arts. This is the reason I quit schools is this kind of nonsense.

Anyways, I'm through with this discussion. I thought at one point that it would still be possible to study from Mr. Patterson or somebody from his school, but obviously that was a huge mistake to think that, given that it will just be getting involved in another stupid political war.

[AndyOndymus]

That's funny. I don't see any information in your public profile telling us who you are to lend anything to your credibility either.
.

Hello Mike, hello Andrea! :D :D :D

[lunghushan]

Hello Mike, hello Andrea! :D :D :D

Lordy lordy ... first we had lama pai vs. bfp, bfp vs. jim lacy, now it's fighting amongst Shen Lung whatever ...

I give up ... what a waste of time with this crapola ...

[Anone]

Anyways, whatever ... the ironic thing to all of this is that I was considering on going down to SD to take classes from the same site you posted when I found out that Patterson was only doing privates in Vegas. I think now I will just avoid your entire group.

I'm sure that everyone concerned will be really broken up by the fact that they will not be graced by your illustrious presence.


I give up ... what a waste of time with this crapola ...

Given your posting patterns on this forum, I sincerely doubt this. I think we can all expect a bit more of your "learned verbosity" and "been there done that" rhetoric. Let's see shall we?

You can have the last word on this one. We all know how important that is to someone like you. ;)

[lunghushan]

I'm sure that everyone concerned will be really broken up by the fact that they will not be graced by your illustrious presence.

Given your posting patterns on this forum, I sincerely doubt this. I think we can all expect a bit more of your "learned verbosity" and "been there done that" rhetoric. Let's see shall we?

You can have the last word on this one. We all know how important that is to someone like you. ;)

Why don't you PM me with your real identity and we can talk about this like normal people, not trolls?

[Subitai]

I must admit, I only skimmed the thread.

Enough to see what some called "bickering"...

I don't mean this as an afront to rlittlejohn

But i'm supprised that Someone like Knifefighter doesn't go to his website, look up his tournament record and accuse him of not being real because of no MMA tournaments listed.

Hell, that would give him clout. Hey there's a novel idea, aren't they both in Southern CA? He should go mix it up with knifefighter. I'm sure flocks of students would come rolling in after that.

According to him your BS if you can't pass his scrutiny.

Or has KF taken a break lately?

I agree about the infighting...can't they all just get along.

"O"

[rlittlejohn]

I do apologize to all of the Users of this forum who had to be subjected to this ridiculous thread. This was certainly was not the intent of my original post. I was merely informing those in my community that I was teaching at a local park. However, I do want to send a shout out to my boy lunghushan, whoever you are. You hit the nail on the head.

Anone stated they can personally testify that my skill level is not that of what I am boasting on my website. I must admit I am no Shaolin monk, I just want to teach something I love to do. I have been lucky at a few CMA tournaments recently and these accomplishments are a part of my resume; which by the way I have posted on my website. But let's analyze this for a moment.

Website, business promotion, marketing....I still don't see the problem. If my teacher says I can teach, I will. I am not seeking validation.

Rueben Littlejohn

[Mike Patterson]

Before I render my thoughts on this thread, let me start by saying that I dislike internet forums and the anonymous "potshotting" that abounds on them. It is far too easy to be a keyboard warrior these days for my tastes. So I only involve myself under circumstances where I feel the need to defend myself, someone I care about or my school/kung fu family. Here it seems that a few of these conditions exist and although he did not ask me, I am involving myself as a favor to a friend. So, here goes:

To Anone,

Whoever you are, if you are connected to me or Master Xu Hong Ji (Hsu Hong Chi) in any way, you are causing all of us a loss of face by your actions. Steve and I may have had our differences in the past, but we are both well beyond that now. And it is my humble opinion that you should let go of your feelings of discontent and move on with your life as well.

It profits no one to live in the past. And the harboring of such deep seated negativity will in all probability translate to liver imbalance over time. So remember that we truly do reap what we sow and please DROP IT!


To lunghushan,

I don't know who you are either but you seem to profess to know about both my wife, Andrea, and myself. Unlike many, I do not hide behind internet pseudonyms and I have no respect for people who engage in such behavior so normally I simply ingnore them. But you have made some statements about my former San Diego school that are less than true.

For the record, all prospective students to that school had to go through a two stage screening process in the form of first a student application and then a formal interview. If you were accepted and then rejected over any kind of an "address" issue, it would likely be due to a red flag in relation to your chosen method of tuition. In such a case, yes, we would have terminated your membership. Stating that my wife "flipped out" simply shows your abounding ignorance of her character. She is one of the calmest people on the planet.

If you were accepted in my absence, then it is possible that I may have vetoed your membership upon my return. I have always been kind of a hard ass that way. I don't teach people I don't like. And based on the tone of your posts, I certainly wouldn't like you.

Since I do not know who you are, and thus cannot check my rather extensive student files to determine what really happened in your case, I simply choose to believe that you are in all probability being untruthful.


Reuben,

I am sorry that your innocent posting has apparently stirred up such garbage. But, I do not agree that "your boy" lunghushan hit the nail on the head at all. I think he has his own agenda. But, I wish you well. I am surprised but pleased to hear that you are still with the arts. Good luck in your pursuits.


And last but not least, Steve,

It took me awhile to find what you referenced, and I had a lot of help from other students, but I did finally locate this forum. You were quite correct, it probably was not worth my time. But, as a favor to you, here goes:

Steve Cotter was one of the finest students to ever walk through my doors in San Diego. He deserves nothing but respect for his accomplishments. If the people who spend so much time wasting time on these internet forums had even one tenth of this man's work ethic, they might actually develop some semblance of real skill in the martial arts. He was my right hand man for many, many years and in spite of any differences we may have had was, and still is, considered part of my extended family. My apologies go to out to you for the negative comments leveled by someone who apparently cannot evolve from past perspectives. But, as we discussed, if someone doesn't despise you these days, you are probably not doing your job to the best of your ability. Be well.


That's all from me. And I hope the rest of you will have the decency to just drop this ridiculous excuse for a dialogue.

[Plymouth Rocks]

And that, dear readers, is what class looks like. Well done MP.

Buddy

[cha kuen]

yes.

I talked to a long tie san diego martial artist.... and he also sas Steve Cotter is a very very nice and humble person, (notice i said very 2 times) and also very good at his martial arts.

Anyone who has the chance to train with him, should do it!

For those looking for a teacher, what do u look for ? Nice humble teacher and good at what they do right?
Well u got both there, so go for it.

Nevermind the politics, the mess, it's none of anyone's business anyways.