Throat Strike!

[ZenGuy]

Weve all heard of the deadly throat punch, well atleast in my school its said that one punch to the throat no matter how big the bloke should either stun them, knock them to the floor gagging, or even kill them :eek: .

My question is: has anybody here had any experience hitting people in the throat? lol
or atleast know something about this perhaps over zealos strike.

ps, anybody know of what happens if the carotid artery is hit, my sifu says if you hit it twice in quick succession it will caues unconsciousness?

Cheers

[stricker]

a while back one of my mates (well, up and till he's had a few drinks :rolleyes: ) punched someone in the neck and it did fk all... not a trained punch but a good swing. strong dude, lot of street fights, been inside etc so no joke.

there goes the invincible fak sao chop to the neck death tocuh!

luck could be a big factor though with that type of thing, no doubt destroying someones adams apple is gonna fk them up big time, if your really unlucky maybe even kill them, but the lesson for me was dont rely on any one thing to win you the fight, cos chances are it wont go down like that. exposure to sports fights and sport fight training makes you realise fights down do down like the perfect theory of wing chun deadly strikes etc

[anerlich]

There's a story on Matt Thornton's site told by a cop who witnessed it. Something along the lines of:

Father is sitting on a chair on the porch. Golf club wielding son comes out of the house and hits him with the club shaft full force across the throat. Dad makes a weird squealing noise, pulls knife and begins to chase son across the street.

My question is: has anybody here had any experience hitting people in the throat?

If it's as deadly as your teacher claims ... only fools would admit to committing GBH on the internet.

It is a weak point and if you rupture or crush the windpipe it could result in death ... not a good idea if it was just some drunk you wanted to get out of your face. OTOH, it may have no effect as discussed, and serve to turn the obnoxious drunk into a ****ed off, violent obnoxious drunk, as well as ****ing off bystanders who saw you "trying to kill the guy with a deadly throat punch." Way to go..

anybody know of what happens if the carotid artery is hit, my sifu says if you hit it twice in quick succession it will caues unconsciousness?

Is your sifu George Dillman? (Youtube)

It's dangerous striking here for sure. I doubt that two quick strikes are any better than one, or three etc. If you hit someone there with an iron bar I'd certainly say yes. OTOH, I just tapped myself there twice and nothi ....aft[ttwi50- :p

But ... Who's going to stand there and let you hit them there twice?

None of ths stuff is predictable. People have had cardiac arrest after being hit in the chest with a baseball. An unfortunate woman in my country was made a quadriplegic after a massage touched on a congenital weakness and caused a stroke.

Concentrate on higher percentage techniques. Punch on the nose, clip to the jaw. Or walking/running away. That the prosecutor at your trial can't turn into "deadly kung fu strikes designed to maim or kill the innocent mugger you attacked".

[wiz cool c]

I'm not a Wing Chun guy Ba Gua, Tai Chi, Shuai Jiao and Judo. But I did use a throat strike in a fight and here's the story.

I was walking to a subway comming back from a Japanese language party with a friend. A Japanese lady. We where crossing the street of Bowery in NYC. This guy on roller blades comes racining behind me and says move I continude walking and he fell. I didn't know he was talking to me at the time. About a minute or two later I start hearing curses from behind. I turn around still not really sure what was going on and this guy on roller blades come up in my face. He is about two feet away from me hands up at his sides. He's calling me an ******* and tuff guy and stuff. I try to explain to him I didn't realise He was taking to me. Also you say watch out when you are a few feet a way not move when you are right behind someone. So this guy won't listen to reason and is still cursing at me. His hands are up and he is a threat to me.

Well I lost my temper and struck him in the Throat with a tiger mouth strike. It shot out from my hip and went straight through him. He fell flat on his back. He then started to roll onto his stomach so he could get up. At this point I decided to end this now. He might have had a weapon or could have coused a commosion that brought the police there. I came behind him and kneeled on one knee and put a rear naked choke on him. I let go when I thought he was out. He motioned like he was going to try to get up and then collasped and his head banged on the concrete.

My friend was histerical she thought he was dead. I knew he would be all right. I waited till he recovered and started moving. Two big Guys helped him up. I then took my friends hand and quickly crossed the street and went down a side street. I really didn't want the cops to show.

This guy was probably a junkie and drunk or something. I don't know what would have happend if he wasn't on roller blades but the strike was very effective in this experence.

[anerlich]

Good story. I didn't really want to go into the whole thing about chokes and grappling, but the RNC is a lot more likely to put someone out than pressure point strikes. Looks like the throat strike was the stun end of Zen Guy's spectrum at best.

But ... you gotta ask ... what sort of moron picks a fight while he's on skates?

[wiz cool c]

Yea the guy was a junkie probably or something was wrong with him.

[Sihing73]

Hello,

The human body is an amazing thing and is capable of many amazing feats. There are plenty of stories of people being shot multiple times and surviving, sometimes even killing their attacker with one blow.

Just recently there was a woman in Cherokee County who was raped by an old boyfriend. When the attacker threatened her younger duaghter the woman grabbed a knife from the kitchen and they tusseled for almost a half an hour. The police were called, not sure if the woman called them or her daughter, who was around 7-9 years old. In any event when the police arrived they found the man outside of the house, naked and bleeding. They attempted to give aide but he died at the scene. The woman was inside the house and was transferred to the hospital where she is now recovering.

The point of this story is not about strikes to the throat as I do not know if any were involved. But it shows the resilience of the human body and spirit. The woman was stabbed over 30 times and required more than 300 stitches. The man/attacker was stabbed a total of 8 times and died. Doubtless many would assume that the woman would have died due to the extent and severity of her injuries but this was not the case.

This goes to show that one can never depend on a certain or specific technique to work all of the time. I am reminded of something said to me when I was training with firearms, the gist was that it was not the bullet which caused the damage but the bodies reaction to the bullet. What the instructor was trying to get across is that one can never rely on the end result simply because you do this or that. While I certainly would expect someone I shot to go down there is always the possibility that they would not. WWII and other violent encounters are full of examples of those who should have died but survived. A tribute to the human bodies resilience and that of the human spirit as well.

What I am getting at is that a strike to the throat, when well placed, should be a fight stopper or at least provide an opportunity to escape. However, to rely on this one technique in and of itself is a bit foolish. It will all depend on how the person receiving the strike reacts and how strong their spirit is. On the other hand if you want to increase the chances of a strike to the throat being effective then it may be better to strike directly to the throat with the extended fingers rather than use a palm or puch. Of course the opportunity to do so must be present. However, I have found that hitting someone in the throat with the fingers, usually directing the strike downward or slightly upward, has the desired effect of, if nothing more, distracting them and allowing me to follow up with other strikes or run away. But again, I would not rely on this to work each and every time. I once hit a guy across the knees with a 2X4 and all he did was grunt, certainly not the reaction I had hoped for :eek: Luckily I was faster on my feet than he was ;)

[couch]

But again, I would not rely on this to work each and every time. I once hit a guy across the knees with a 2X4 and all he did was grunt, certainly not the reaction I had hoped for :eek: Luckily I was faster on my feet than he was ;)

Nice.

"You gotta know when to hold em, when to fold em," "When to walk away, when to run."

Best,
Kenton Sefcik

[Liddel]

If you do it right a good hit to the throat is a fight stopper...but even better is a choke follow up...

I tend to adapt what a cop friend of mine showed me a while back, that hes used many many times on people hes arrested (when they resisted :D )

He calls it a ninja throat grab because he picked it up in Ninjitsu class years ago - its one of a handful of tech's hes kept for the street, dropping the rest for CQB techh's that are less flashy and really work :p .

It consists of slamming your plam into the front of the throat connecting with the nook of your hand ( between the thumb and finger ) then as you slam it into the neck - you press your thumb in to collapse the throat. The impact has a stunning effect and the choke will shock and cut off air.

Its a good tech to mix up with other actions - elbow follow up / takedown etc

Ive used it once on a guy at a party who was breaking a friends furniture - settled him right down :eek:

[ZenGuy]

This ninja strike you speak of, sounds gd but i wud probs be worried of tearing the webbing between thumb+finger. Going for knifeedge to gingerfist grab (1st section of dummy) wud be quite similar wouldnt it?

No its not Gorge Dillman...the man who shoots magic knockout chi balls......that coincidently only work on willing students lol.
My sifu is of Ip man- Ho kam ming- Fong lineage


I heard one medical professinal (maybe chinese wispers in this case) say youd have to be the most unlucky guy in the world to make sombodys tracea stick together.

But in contrast ive heard a few more nasty outcomes from a hard direct throat stike (none verifiable)


So seems the consensus is a throat punch is just another good strike comparable to nose or chin, wellperhaps a bit better.

Though a more concrete answer would be great :)
just for sciences sake hehe

[SavvySavage]

In George Clooney's movie about the cia/game show host, the army dude killed one of the assassin trainees with throat strike. :)


Once I was playing hide and seek in my house when I was younger. It was dark. A chair had been knocked over and I crawled, throat first, right into the part of the leg that should've been touching the floor. I was messed up for a few minutes. My throat closed and it hurt for a bit after.

I was training/chi saoing once and my partner punched me square in the throat. For a period of a few seconds I couldn't breath and I was coughing for a while afterwards.

[Vajramusti]

My sifu is of Ip man- Ho kam ming- Fong lineage
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dont see your name or your sifu's name- so I dont know what "lineage" you are really from. By the way is your sifu's name listed as an instructor in the Fong lineage?

You may be a beginner- i dont know- but some of your comments and questions
does not illustrate much substantial knowledge of that lineage.
Could you mention your name and your sifu's name in the way of information? thank you.

[ZenGuy]

oh yeah m8 dnt get me wrong im faaaaarrrrrr from masterin the system,
only 570 ish hours under my belt (1.5 years)
its Fong then Derek Vernon then me the student, in my lineage

[ZenGuy]

just tryin to get some answers from more experience people

[Vajramusti]

Nothing wrong in trying to seek answers and better your understanding.
No need to mention Fong lineage- because you are apparently simply Derek Vernon's student apparently.

Name dropping and inaccurate or incomplete lineage dropping without self identification can cause confusion. Master Fong has a section on his website which lists his instructors definion on who is his student. Attending some seminars is not enough for a lineage. But no matter- the site has another section for questions and answers- you can try that to get help in addition to whatever advice forum members give you here. Good wishes for your wing chun development.

[Vajramusti]

A little over 1 year in training?
I would work on improving control of motions and your development at this stage rather than
punching the throat and hitting the carotid artery. By chance you can make legal trouble for yourself if you succeed with some poor incompetent person- or simply get the other guy if he is more skilled than you really mad.

[ZenGuy]

Nothing wrong in trying to seek answers and better your understanding.
No need to mention Fong lineage- because you are apparently simply Derek Vernon's student apparently.

Name dropping and inaccurate or incomplete lineage dropping without self identification can cause confusion. Master Fong has a section on his website which lists his instructors definion on who is his student. Attending some seminars is not enough for a lineage. But no matter- the site has another section for questions and answers- you can try that to get help in addition to whatever advice forum members give you here. Good wishes for your wing chun development.

Mentioning fong was simply so you would know of which wing chun tradition im learning from.

You saying you know of him (veron)?

Attending some seminars is not enough for a lineage.
You mean he is not qualified to teach? :confused:

[Vajramusti]

Mentioning fong was simply so you would know of which wing chun tradition im learning from.
((Ok))

You saying you know of him (veron)?

((Vernon?have met him))

You mean he is not qualified to teach?

((Read carefully.I said nothing of the sort.He is just technically not a Fong recognized instructor))


joy chaudhuri

[ZenGuy]

AH i just realised your the guy who wrote the chum kui/bue gee articles with fong.
nice talkin to ya lol :)

[wiz cool c]

What the **** are you guys talking about the topic was throat strikes.

[ZenGuy]

What the **** are you guys talking about the topic was throat strikes.

Sorry bud, back to topic lol,

Summary
im told a throat strike will sit someone down, a few other people arnt so sure.

i rekon this is still a valid topic for discussion

[Liddel]

This ninja strike you speak of, sounds gd but i wud probs be worried of tearing the webbing between thumb+finger. Going for knifeedge to gingerfist grab (1st section of dummy) wud be quite similar wouldnt it?

Sorry mate we must have different Mook Jong Forms - i have no gingerfist grab - in fact my gingerfist is for striking not grabbing...interesting :rolleyes:

As far as tearing your hand up... very very low percentage but for arguments sake - worth doing if it means surviving !

This POV would also apply to punching to the face - i mean you risk a high chance of cutting your knuckles on a opponents teeth ( happened to me in my last fight ) but youd never think of not punching the face - would you ?

Food for thought ;)

[tjwingchun]

Sorry mate we must have different Mook Jong Forms - i have no gingerfist grab - in fact my gingerfist is for striking not grabbing...interesting :rolleyes:

I am with you here, I was taught it as a neck pull, though I have seen it as a palm strike with thumb poke incorproated, I prefer the opening of the dummy to denote entering and when in contact pulling, either in contact with the arm so a Lap Sau or striking the head and therefore pulling the neck to bring the head onto the next strike, my favourite being an elbow, lol.

As far as tearing your hand up... very very low percentage but for arguments sake - worth doing if it means surviving !

This POV would also apply to punching to the face - i mean you risk a high chance of cutting your knuckles on a opponents teeth ( happened to me in my last fight ) but youd never think of not punching the face - would you ?

Food for thought ;)

Reminds me of people who say that the thumb must be tucked away in contact with the palm incase it gets dislocated! a dislocated thumb is the last of your worries when someone is trying to take your head off, but a nicely placed thumb hooked into the eye socket can give the right sort of grip (fingers under the jaw) to manipulate your assailants head into a strike while preventing them from biting you.

Friend of mine nearly lost his arm through a punch in the mouth, a few days after laying this kid out who was trying to deal drugs in his pub his hand became swollen, after a few more days he decided to go to the doctors, septicaemia had set in, and he was told he was lucky not to lose his fingers, couple more days he would have lost the hand, then his forearm and within a week his whole arm, after that would have been death.

I always advise never to punch people when they are smiling, but if you do make sure you clean the would and seek medical attention if the redness around the wound grows rather than decreases over the coming days.

As a further note on this subject I tend to look at peoples knuckles who I first meet, those little white scars tend to tell alot about a persons past, lol.

On the topic of throat strikes, personally I have been hit in the throat staight on and though I had a sore throat for weeks after it just pizzed me off, but I have had students who have used the strike to the side of the neck that was effective immediately, not sure of the case/effect of the strike, I had a discussion with someone who said it was because the carotid artery was hit, I tend to believe more that it was the vagus nerve that might have been the cause of the person passing out, but as I am not a medical person I do not know the answer and open to be informed.

[ZenGuy]

by gingerfist grab, i ment that one aplication after the 1st palm would be to pull down with the fist in a shape that resembles gingerfist, (grabbing trachea)

[ZenGuy]

On the topic of throat strikes, personally I have been hit in the throat staight on and though I had a sore throat for weeks after it just pizzed me off, but I have had students who have used the strike to the side of the neck that was effective immediately, not sure of the case/effect of the strike, I had a discussion with someone who said it was because the carotid artery was hit, I tend to believe more that it was the vagus nerve that might have been the cause of the person passing out, but as I am not a medical person I do not know the answer and open to be informed.

was this strike full power, or more of a hard chi sao energy?

[Liddel]

by gingerfist grab, i ment that one aplication after the 1st palm would be to pull down with the fist in a shape that resembles gingerfist, (grabbing trachea)

Fair enough... i personally prefer to follow with a face scrape after a palm strike but ive never had the chance to use this tech, truth be told, just practiced.....it can be vicious :o

In the melee of a confrontation grabbing the trachea with closed fingers pressing in to choke someone is difficut and most would be able to slip out before you did damage IMO. Some people are not so umcomfortable when choked - others panic - so it depends on which type you get i think.

The reason the "ninja throat grab" (what a name, sounds mystical LOL :p ) is more useful IMO is because of 'how' its applied.

The hand thrusts foward, slamming the 'Neck', (your whole hand is around the neck, fingers to one side thumb to the other)
immediatly after contact, the thumb only, slips into the side of the 'throat' and presses in towards your fingers still at the other side of the opponents 'Neck'.

So if he moves you have a grip of the whole area 'The Neck' and can follow his movements and/or stay connected, also you can more easily create tensions between your fingers and thumb 'choking' or 'collapsing' the throat more.

If you were to just grab the throat only between your fingers it would slip out of your grasp easier IME. Also the slam is important, ideally you should press through to disrupt his balance then takedown or an elbow what ever you can come up with.

This is only one Tech, i know the thread was on throat strikes and this is more a choke following a strike but im bored at work and havent got anything better to do :cool:

[tjwingchun]

was this strike full power, or more of a hard chi sao energy?

Full power.


This is only one Tech, i know the thread was on throat strikes and this is more a choke following a strike but im bored at work and havent got anything better to do :cool:

My favourite is to use the thumb to drive up into the complex of jugular veins either side of the neck, the resulting increase in blood pressure in the brain leads to rapid passing out. :D If you get bored at work again try it out but don't blame me if there is a fatality lol.:eek:

[mantisG35]

Weve all heard of the deadly throat punch, well atleast in my school its said that one punch to the throat no matter how big the bloke should either stun them, knock them to the floor gagging, or even kill them :eek: .

My question is: has anybody here had any experience hitting people in the throat? lol
or atleast know something about this perhaps over zealos strike.

ps, anybody know of what happens if the carotid artery is hit, my sifu says if you hit it twice in quick succession it will caues unconsciousness?

Cheers

yes, i have been killed by it.... twice!
the throat is a very weak part of your body and it does not take much to be destroyed. in certain cases it takes less than one second of grabbing to destroy the throat. even defending the throat might hurt it sometimes. it may lead to muteness in some cases and to death in extreme cases.
I have stuck 2 fingers in my opponent's throat when being chocked before. it's effective and does not take much. you literally do not need any power or anything to force ur opponent to disengage.

[Shadow_warrior8]

It depends on which part of the throat you are striking. There are those who tell you if you strike the ST9, it will induce a knock out. Well I have been doing Bujinkan formerly known as Togakure Ninjutsu Godai Kata, and San Shin for years, and we strike the throat alot on the sides with full force and body weight, never been able to knock out anyone.
Ninja grab? Hee hee...sounds like Chinese Chin Na to me, but then they do push up on their fingers to get the strength and speed to close off the wind pipe. Otherwise, a quick punch by the other person will make you think twice about locking his throat.
Of course if you strike adams apple it will be diff.

[ZenGuy]

It depends on which part of the throat you are striking. There are those who tell you if you strike the ST9, it will induce a knock out. Well I have been doing Bujinkan formerly known as Togakure Ninjutsu Godai Kata, and San Shin for years, and we strike the throat alot on the sides with full force and body weight, never been able to knock out anyone.


youve repeatedly struck st9/throat and neck with full power and had little effect?

[Shaolin Wookie]

I got in a fight in middle school once (nope, had no training then), and two kids attacked me. One was a big fat kid, and the other was like his skinny sidekick. I was a tiny little **** with big gold-rimmed glasses and really bad hair who read Dragonlance novels. Well, the skinny kid hit me in the throat (reared back and threw it hard, too), and the fat kid put me in like a bear hug or something. It stunned me, but I didn't die or anything. Then I kicked the skinny kid in the nuts and stomped on the big dude's foot to get him to let go. I ran away, but got called into the office later. They said the skinny kid was in the office crying. I felt real bad, and I almost got sick.

Anyway. I was pre-teen and took a shot to a scrawny little neck from a skinny teen probably twice my size. It's the manner in which it is struck, not just the fact that it's the throat.

I wouldn't rely on a throat strike in a life or death situation. It's hard to get off, one--if someone is defending himself. Plus, you've gotta be good at it. The neck is sensitive to strikes, but a chokehold is far more effective, especially when combined with a chin na.

P.S. won my second and last ever fight with a nut kick in high school....man I'm a dirty fighter.:o