Rebuttal Concerning Professor Lau Bun and Hung Sing Elders

[tenfists]

My name is Dennis Dino Salvatera, head Sefu of the Hung Sing in the USA. I am writing this notice after talking with some of my elders and my teacher. The Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut people are very proud and respectable people. From time to time, people put out stories about some of our people, saying they are gangsters and killers. There are even glorious stories of their feats. These are bald-faced lies. I personally met and talked with Professor Lau Bun and my teacher Jew Leong, for many years. We have always been good community active people trying to keep younger people out of trouble, especially in San Francisco Chinatown, where I was born. Over the years, we had many women in Hung Sing, since our beginnings in the 1930’s, who went on to become productive family people and never caused one bit of trouble, No, no-one of our people killed anyone. Yes, we have fought; sometimes it was rough living here in Chinatown, just like other cities in America.

Our goals are and always will be teaching health, self defense and hopefully, good citizens. We do not think we are better than any branch, group or person.

Thank you,
Dino Salvatera
Hung Sing USA

(This message posted on behalf of Sefu Dino)

[Fu-Pow]

Looks like somebody might have got a spanky from Sifu.

FP

[lkfmdc]

People freaked out when I posted stories about Chan Tai San, even some people in our group were trying to cover them up. It isn't politically correct, and sometimes the facts show that "masters" are just people, not g-ds. It's also ok to come from a background like that and then become a "good person" and help your community. I can see room for both world views

[hskwarrior]

ross,

i agree with that. in the past my sifu and i have had conversations about not telling people this or that. But its my opinion "it's not where you came from, it's where you are today." My sifu has his past, but look at him today!!!

With all my sifu went through, he is the head master of the oldest existing gung fu school on american soil. In one sense, rags to riches. It's also my opinion that people need to know your past to get a better perspective on who you are today. I mean, people will respect an ex street thug turned responsible martial arts instructor, over someone who just had daddy make the deposit on the school so you could open one, type of teacher.

If no one recorded Lau Buns, Jew Leongs, and My sifu's past, then when they die it all gets forgotten. That's not fair to the legacy he left behind, to selfishly withhold when it can benefit others later on down the line is completely wrong.
if i didn't do the research on lau bun, then the world would only know about him whatever that would fit in paragraph.

So, I documented their pasts, and have even been complimented by Jew Leong in the work that I'm doing. So I KNOW he's not referring to my work and efforts in preserving our history.

[hskwarrior]

and rebuttal to what......I have no idea.

here, you be the judges and tell me if, where, and what I said that is considered "bragging, boasting, promoting gangsterism, or killing in any of these websites. Nor am I telling any lies, be it bald face or a face filled with wooly mammoth hair.

So, i know it ain't me he's talking about. that's for sure.

http://www.professorlaubun.zoomshare.com
http://www.jewleong.zoomshare.com
http://www.tienloong.zoomshare.com

In ending, if you find where I am promoting being a gangster, killing, or any lies about any of these three sites.........someone please point that out.

Frank

[htowndragon]

you cant be from either taiwan or hong kong or live in chinatown without having someone or another that you know who knows somebody who knows Tong, Triad, etc. thats just what you get for being asian.


thats why the lau bun and CTS stories had more of a "finally someone tells the truth" affect on me

[CLFNole]

I agree I don't know too many CLF sifus that don't have some connection to "hak sei wui" from their sifu's, sisuks, sibaats or sigungs. I know we have some history within our own lineage; however it is not something generally discussed openly and students nowadays have no clue.

Frank:

You should remember you did go on about Lau Bun being a "hatchet man" and other things.

[hskwarrior]

Whatever I've said about Lau Bun isn't anything knew. Everyone knew about what Lau Bun did for the Hop Sing Tong back in the days.

However, nothing I've said about Lau Bun, Jew Leong, or my sifu is a lie, accept for the stuff on Lau Bun I've spoken to and gotten information directly from the sources when it comes to Jew Leong and my sifu.

So whether Lau Bun was a hatchet man, or a newspaper delivery boy, the truth is the truth.......and how does my sifu say it......."the truth shall set you free".

[tungmojingjung]

As a student of Sifu Dino since 1981, I feel a certain responsibility to weigh in on this post. First of all I want to say there are countless stories and legends involved in Chinese martial arts and I will be the first to admit that these stories and or legends do not escape the Hung Sing Gwoon established by Prof. Lau Bun during times past. It is the goal of real Chinese martial arts to produce outstanding citizens by the various factors associated with kung fu. When we learn the authentic methods ones character should transform, a certain new person if you know what I mean. We should become more disciplined, display more humility, be more cooperative, all these things learnt from the training of Chinese martial arts. Hung Sing Gwoon USA has thrived for many years and I doubt very seriously if it was because it housed a den of gangsters, but then I don't know for sure because I wasn't there like many others of my generation and my Sifu's Generation we literally came in on the tail end. And judging by some of the true elders that are still around like my Si-Gung Jew Leong, Sifu E.Y. Lee, Sifu Johnny Ma, Sifu Doc Fai Wong and others who can really say, were there eye witnesses to these stories, I mean people who were actually there? that can speak on them now. I think we should concentrate on our skill level and let the past rest because its over. Regardless to my Dai Si Gung Lau Bun, Si Gung Jew Leong, Sifu Dino Salvatera or Si Suks and Sihings, they have paved their way long before me, and I refuse to be acknowledge because of any exploits of their lives. I realize that I have to make a name for myself a good name I may add, the old fashion way and that is simply by training and when others see my performance they say "hey, that guys gung fu is pretty good, he was taught well". So in closing let the past stay asleep, its already done and over with, we must concentrate on the NOW by training hard with maximum efforts to bring our respective disciples continued honor and glory. It is far more easier for a person to ride the coat tails of others by way of association but not willing to do the work themselves to be rightfully respected. Even if the stories or legends of our past ancestors are true or not what does it actually have to do with our training, absolutely nothing, we must stand by our own merits and not anyone elses. Believe half of what you see, and nothing that your hear unless you witnessed it for yourself.

[hskwarrior]

now troy,

tell me how i'm not supposed to take that personally?

frank

If you have a problem with me troy, I'm right here, or you know my number. Say something. Closed mouths don't get fed.

If you, my sifu, or anyone else for that matter don't want to know history of where we came from, or background information on our elders, that's not my problem. I did this because I wanted to know our history, it wasn't something my sifu put me up to, this is my passion.

How does their past have anything to do with you today? if nothing, what's wrong with knowing?

Yeah they paved their way long before you, and maybe you don't want to know who our elders were, but i do, i did, and I researched it now i know. I shared what I learned because there were people out there interested in knowing their pasts, and I won't be the one to say "I don't know", maybe you are ok with that, but i'm not.

so what's the problem here? if you have one, then bring it to me. it sounds like you have one though. I could be wrong.

[T. Cunningham]

Interesting thread. In every lineage, just like in every family there are things that are too politically hot to discuss openly. Consequently these tidbits are kept within the family. The events of the past and the parts our ancestors played (the good, the bad, and the questionable) are major impactors on who we are today. This is why we pay homage to them when we walk into the school and when we leave; thanking them for the lessons they've learned the hard way so that we can have things a bit easier. In my opinion, knowing your past is essential in plotting a path for your future. Keep up the research Frank.

[hskwarrior]

Mr Cunningham,

thank you. And I totally agree. It's my opinion that the world should know what my elders (and family to DFW's lineage) should know about Lau Bun, Jew Leong, and my sifu. I spoken (email really) with someone who said they didn't know much or have up much of Lau Bun. I hope that because of what I did, those who want to know I helped.

See, I still know my sifu isn't talking about me, because for another reason, he approved of everything I wrote about him & the others.

However, what mind boggles me, (and my sifu does what he wants) but if he didn' t want people to know that he was a part of this, or that group, and was part of this gang or whatever, then why does he have it on his own website? Why have someone post this thread? But like i said in the past I know my sifu very well. I know why he has this sudden change of heart over his past. I understand why he feels this way, but in the end, what he doesn't want people to know anymore is still found on his website.

See, the way i view it, Lau Bun, Jew Leong and my sifu all experienced things not too many outsiders can ever say they have. All have endured some very challenging points in their lives, many of those points shaped them into who they've become. I know my sifu doesn't want to seem like he brags, so he doesn't want others to tell it either. But, that's how we lose ourselves, and allows people to forget who they were.

But, I don't want to let what happened in the 1800's happen to me. I want my future descendants, students, and even children to know my history, my teachers and their teachers history. It would be a complete shame to forget about our ancestors. Who are we that we forget the hardships and achievements of our ancestors, but promote ourselves instead as if we are far better than them?

But, since fu pow made a comment that someone got spanked by his sifu, I wanted to let him and everyone else that might think it was me that got spanked, because no where do I glorify what happened. I only chronicled their past.

And if preserving my ancestors legacy (regardless if checkered with the darker side of life) is a crime, then I'm guilty as Hell. But, that doesn't mean I am going to change their legacies to turn it into some Mary Poppins child story so I won't offend anyone. I am going to tell the history in the best light possible, but the facts are the facts, and one of those facts include the demise of Immigration Officers. That is something we all know. Is that a lie now?

The past of my elders are NOT LIES in the least. Nor are they fattened up to make it sound good.

Maybe in my sifu's elder years his past is bothering him and he doesn't want others to know about that. If that's the case, i still say the past is the past. I am impressed with his past, and isthe sole reason for my writing his and my other elders histories down. So, I do honor them, and in no way shape or form embarrass them, and shame them. Everything is written to show how and what they've experienced to get them to the place we revere them at.

peace

[tungmojingjung]

To All Gum San Hung Sing Gwoon USA Members

Let me at this time state to be beyond any speculation that the following is my personal opinion and the following is of my own accord.

Now according to the Hung Sing history I find various loop holes, no I do not believe that Jeung Yim, Jeung Hung Sing is the founder of Choy Lee Fut, I do believe he learned from Chan Heung and later developed his own branch based upon his knowledge and life experiences.

The Choy Lee Fut that Lau Bun taught in my opinion is not the same version that is taught at Futsan Hung Sing Gwoon. I truly do not believe my Sifu would go there and re-learn all the skills he learned under Master Jew Leong, as if he wasn't capable of doing a great job teaching him really all he needed to know.

Those of us under Master Dino Salvatera and Si Gung Jew's direct students, in my opinion, our history begins with Great Master Lau Bun regardless of the close relationship in movement with Futsan the styles are different . I believe the history of our branch and school is different from Futsan since Lau Bun made changes, and I believe it's evident with the curriculums being different. However the very core of Lau Bun Choy Lee Fut contains all the necessary Choy Lee Fut basics.

As far as i'm concerned Hung Sing USA history is with Lau Bun, because he established our system, much as I believe Jeung Yim did his, however the foundation is Choy Lee Fut Boxing.



Troy Dunwood
Ying Hung Yat Ga MartialArts Association

[hskwarrior]

As a senior disciple of the American Hung SIng Kwoon, I am making a comment to what sifu Dunwood has commented on.

Troy, you have not learned, seen, nor have you been to Fut San to the Fut San Hung SIng Kwoon, so I don't feel you have the right, nor authority to speak on the differences between the Fut San and Lau Bun branch.

However, I make this very PROUD statement that Lau Bun's CLF and Fut San's CLF is much more closer the being truly authentic than what Sifu Dunwood would intend you to believe after his comments. I have video footage of the very first meeting between My Sifu and the Fut San HSK. It was either 1999, or 2000 but the Fut San Hung SIng Kwoon basically matched our school set for set. If we did our cheung kuen, they did CHe Kuen, and so on. On the tape you can hear them say we are the same.

Out of every single Fut San related school to visit Fut San it was us that they said resembled them more than anyone. Movement, set patterns, even in Sup Gee we are basically the same and could follow side by side. Many of the same moves that are in their sets ( i mean move for move) are in ours. We went to fut san in 2001, but we have been here in America since the very early 1920's.

FUt San Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut is celebrating it's 155th anniversary this year. Lau Bun's school is just about half as old. So being that Lau Bun learned His CLF at the turn of the century, less than 15 years after Jeong Yim's death ( and he was born during Jeong Yim's lifetime) Lau Bun's Choy Lee Fut is as authentic as it could be for the time that he learned it. If Chan Ngau Sing broke up the In and Out bagua and NOT JEONG YIM, then it truly shows that the Fut San HUNG SING KWOON was a complete system, but was still developing and continued to develop in private as they went underground.

Lau Bun came to america and taught whatever it was that he learned from Yuen Hai which has been proven to be authentic Fut San HSK CLF. Yes the sets they teach may be different, but whose is the same? EVEN in fut san the same set was taught differently to each and every single person. There is no standard.

So Troy, I ask you again what authority do you have to compare the fut san hsk to that of Lau Buns? You have never learned the sets from my sifu that sifu brought back from fut san, you have never been to fut san, i've never shown you the video footage of the demonstrations, so where do you get off making comments like that?

You and I have even agreed that most likely what was taught in the early stages were techniques over sets. Who knows when the sets came into play? But our Choy Lee Fut lineage is that of the true fut san hung sing kwoon and not how you just painted it out to be.

yeah i know you said this is your personal opinion, but if you didn't learn the sets or have even seen them, then what are you basing those comments on? Your opinion?

[hskwarrior]

As I've said in the past, Lau Bun took the CLF that was being taught at the time, came to america and continued to develop his gung fu. Yes he did found this lineage, and maybe alot came from him, but you don't know what Lau Bun learned from Yuen Hai, nor what Lau Bun taught. Lau Bun taught differently to each and every single person, people in fut san learned the very same sets differently, and this happens between every school.

the only branch that seems to teach the same sets as standards (which means each and every school of that branch teaches the exact same sets the same way etc).

So I beg to differ with your account Sifu Dunwood. I think you got it twisted.

When and where did you learn FUt San Sets so that you can compare them with Lau Buns? If you did learn them, then you would see some super similarities between them. The one thing i've noticed is that the way we execute CLF techqniques is that we've blended one with another, while it's more defined in other schools.

we have always trained to fight, so we practiced our sets with fighting in mind, not the prettiness of how the set should look. But you have sadly made a mistake in your comments in Fut San being different than Lau Buns branch. Our stuff came from there, Lau Bun didn't come to america and falsely claim to be a CLF practitiner, then make up his clf.

Lau Bun was a pioneer for his generation. Jew Leong was a Pioneer for his generation. My sifu is a pioneer for his generation. do you see how our CLF is not remaining stagnant? Do you see that what once was evolved into what we do today? We progress, and that means we develop gung fu that is strictly for our school, and branch or its connections. It is what WE do. It's OUR gung fu, because gung fu is a personal thing. And if Lau Bun developed the rest of his CLF based off of what he learned from the FUt San HUng SIng Kwoon master, it was his right and choice. And throughout asia, Lau Bun is HIGHLY respected for what he did, and how he developed his CHOY LEE FUT.

I don't care if Lau Bun's CLF can't be compared to the chan family, or other schools carrying the same name. IF you can produce me two fut san related schools but have no relation to each other, and they practiced the same sets, the same way, with no differences, then you don't have a place to comment on how Lau Bun Developed his gung fu.

CHan Heung developed gung fu and strictly passed it down within his own branch. What you are missing is the fact that CHan Heung (who was a normal human being) established a system and made up (developed) gung fu based off of the gung fu he learned. He developed his own staff, weapon sets, dummy sets, etc etc, then why is it so hard to conceive Lau Bun took the CLF that was being taught at that time, never went back to fut san, but developed more based on his own knowledge, then what's the problem here?

[tungmojingjung]

Who said I never been to Futsan, because you didn't know about it, and who said I never learned any of the sets, because you were not there when Sifu showed me, ask him if he taught me any of the futsan sets, also tell me are Lau Bun sets taught in the Futsan Hung Sing Gwoon, movement for movement the way they are taught here? I think all choy lee fut have similarities but we are not all one big happy family. And finally tell me whats with this senior disciple thing, have you ever bowed to Sifu Dino? I confer the foundation of Futsan teachings and whats passed on by Lau Bun is the same but you won't go to Futsan and see what Lau Bun taught. And contrary to what may be thought, I do have video footage that was given to me of Lau Bun in Marysville.

[htowndragon]

footage of lau bun?

post some please!

[buddajoe]

i


So, I documented their pasts, and have even been complimented by Jew Leong in the work that I'm doing. So I KNOW he's not referring to my work and efforts in preserving our history.

there is an article on jew leong in INSIDE KUNG-FU, vol.3,#1, jan. 1976, by michael p staples. in that interview jew leong states his linage very clearly. he also mentions the same incident you make in your so-called professor Lau Bun website. it seems to me that jew sifu would have better sources than yours. sifu's version has a ring of truth to it. your version seems to enjoy the idea of one man killing officers of the law for a immigration violation. IS THIS NOT A CRIME? this really smacks of wanton violence and fostering gangterism. the fact is Lau Bum's papers were in perfect order and he received social security when he retired. this is vertified throught public records. you only had to look. well i sure you can't call jew sifu a bald face liar or would you really go that far? jew sifu told my classmate last nov. "that if anyone who wanted to talk about Lau Bun, that person should contact him". your lack of scholarship, as well as your gossip-like research is plebian. you just don't get it! you are soiling the name of hung sing! you have hurt all elders of both jew sifu's generation as well as dino's generation. your truth has a hollow ring and does not serve the style as you say is your mission.

[hskwarrior]

In fact,

If we were to stop teaching the Sets passed down from Lau Bun, and created our own, it would still be choy lee fut. period. It may not be Chan Heung's choy lee fut, It may not be Tam Sam's Choy Lee Fut, but the one things for sure, it does come from the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon.

Lau Bun was provided all the necessary tools to establish his own school and possessed enough foresight ( as a fighter in a foriegn land) to develop his gung fu, while teaching it to the Tong Members. Over time what Lau Bun developed turned into something that Jew Leong put his ear mark on, then my sifu put his earmark on and that will continue on down the line.

If sets are what you're worried about then go to the Chan Family, they developed almost 200 of them since its conception.

But Lau Bun -as i've said earlier- is and was a pioneer for Choy Lee Fut which has continued to develop within his own branch. That is why we are called the American Hung SIng Kwoon because we developed our gung fu right here in america which originally started in china.

Because Lau Bun added things into what he learned, and encouraged his own students to develop the system for themselves., does it mean it's any less authentic or invalid. ARE YOU OUT OF YOU COTTON PICKIN' MIND? And that is what we continue to do. Sets are not the core to the system. sets would not make you fight any better because you learned them. Personally, I've never seen anyone in my lifetime use a set (aside from the Karate Kid) in fighting.

So, in regards to What Lau Bun Learned and taught.........who knows? No one has a written record to show what was taught at the fut San Hung SIng Kwoon. But what ever he learned before coming to America was the most earliest stages of CLF in its development. Other masters of the Choy Lee Fut system experienced the exact same thing, including the Chan Family of CLF. when those masters left and there was no way to learn the newest CLF developed by their branch, these masters developed CLF as they saw it. but it is still choy lee fut, so what's the problem here?

What are you saying? Are you saying that Lau Bun learned just a hand, or two then came to america and told everyone he learned Choy Lee Fut? Are you calling Lau Bun a Charlatan? What are you insinuating?

******I had to step away because I was getting heated.*******

I've realized I'm still mad at kenny fist for attacking Lau Bun's lineage for not teaching chan family material, and then to hear Troy talking like this made me more upset, and causes me to re-think troy's position with Hung SIng.

But, to speak about Lau Bun, say he isn't a master because he didn't learn the whole CLF system taught by the FUT San HSK makes me mad. No one knows what was originally taught in all CLF Schools back then. So how you or anyone could say Lau Bun this or that mind boggle me.

Lau Bun was a true gung fu master. He was a CLF pioneer. And, the founder of the oldest gung fu school in the USA. Lau Bun taught HSK CLF as it was taught to him as it was developed during the time he learned it. He came to america, fut san continued to develop their stuff. lau Bun taught the foundation, roots, and the core of the system. He taught many things. He was a CHOY Lee Fut man to the heart, and showed his dedication, intelligence, and worth as a CLF MASTER by becoming a Pioneer.

Now Troy, My sifu didn't go back to FUt San to re-learn anything. In fact he could teach them a thing or two. But as a result of retracing our roots he picked up sets that they teach because we are of the same family. There is nothing wrong with he going to back to fut san to learn more sets, it shows that he isn't a sifu who sits back and does nothing. He isn't so arrogant to believe he couldn't be taught anything new.

ANd trust me, My sifu learned a few new things from fut san, but at the same time they recognize we do their old way, and according to sifu they sort of began to switch back to the way we do it. he saw this with his own eyes. Now, since you don't know troy, the sets from fut san from the beginnings to the endings are very similar, and very shocking at first because we thought it was just lau bun that did that. but come to find out that we do the very same things, just with a different flavor.

HSK

[hskwarrior]

whoever you are buddha.....

I got information directly from Jew Leong, My Sifu, His Si-sooks, and so forth.

this you have no clue on, and for your information, my sifu was the one who set up many of these interviews. You, i can't even say are a hung sing member, and that i really don't care.

You quote a magazine article that was written by a student of Jew Leong. I Interview, showed Jeong Leong what I wrote, and again for your information, I have been personally thanked by Jew Leong for being the one to preserve our history. So, obviously you are an outsider to my lineage, or you would know this.

SO you say Lau bun's papers were in order? How can that be when he entered the United States under a false name? You are a fool, you know nothing about Lau Bun, my sifu, or anyone else in my lineage for that matter.

IF you want to say what Lau Bun did was a crime, then you are also calling my sifu a criminal. All his information is found on his website, I don't need to point that out here.


Troy, I have spent my life with my sifu. I don't and will never need a piece a paper to tell me I am a senior disciple of GM Salvatera. The only one to ever do the tea ceremony was Chad.

I say you have never learned any new sets from my sifu. The only times i've seen you there was for your own missions. To tell you the truth, I have never in 25 years of my training seen you practice in our studio. So, I know what I'm talking about.

Troy, what ever your beef is, back off dude. I know more about you than you realize, and if you don't want me to bust you out here publicly, back off. You know, although I never seen you practiced one single day under my sifu, my sifu says you were his student so i had your back. But you obviously got beef now, so spit it out, or do what you're gonna do.

You stepped up first, speak up. I know for a fact you don't know much about fut san sets. and to answer your question, the sets Lau Bun teaches are not taught in Fut San, but the signature moves, the openings, and closings are exactly the same with a small modification.

How, do i know you don't know fut san CLF, because you never show up at the studion when you say you will. I have never once seen you practice under sifu at all, so if you want to flex, then flex. but know i will flex back.

Buddha Joe, you don't know me, so your words get dusted off my shoulders. keep talking smack.

[hskwarrior]

SO actually sifu dunwood,

I am a senior disciple of Dino Salvatera. Aside from Hannibal, I am the only senior student of "Dino Salvatera" who is actively doing something in the name of Hung Sing.

You, i can't say are a senior disciple, because as you already know, I am very close to sifu, and the question of when do you or have you EVER come to practice has come up many many many times, in front of my sifu. There has yet to be an answer.

Kicking him down some money, and only coming around to learn a set doesn't make you a senior disciple, you actually have to practice under him, know him, do things for him.......I have done everything a disciple thats gone through the tea ceremony, but I will never do a tea ceremony with my sifu because a certain ex-student of his cheapened it, and hurt my sifu in the end.

So, in contrary to your lame try to insult me, no piece of paper will ever explain how much of a true disicple I am to him. You on the other hand, won't even carry the Hung Sing name, even when you were asked to. Hung Sing is tatted on my chest so till the day I die I will always be a Hung SIng Man.

[hskwarrior]

and to buddha joe,

you say "Sifu's version" what sifu? who is your sifu?

Are you aware that any information I got about Lau Bun came directly from his direct descendants, not just word of mouth.

You say Jew Sifu's sources are better than mine, he is one of my sources, so where do you think i got the information from?

When the only person Lau Bun requested to teach, and Lau Bun asked permission first because of his past, where do you think i got that informaion from? Here on the forum? HA!

Guess, what........Quote me now.............."Any thing I've ever written about Jew Leong, Lau Bun, or My sifu, came directly from their mouths. On Lau Bun, I've interviewed many people you most likely don't even know of.

So you can talk all the smack you want, you sound stupid because you are clueless to my extent with the Hung Sing Kwoon.

Keep talking, I need a good laugh, i had a bad day today.

[hskwarrior]

troy,

you're my classmate but i don't know how, but I do know this, you don't represent Hung Sing, you represent Tung Mo, Ying Hung, The prancing fairy style( I think thats what you called it) but you don't represent Hung Sing.

No, i never bi-see'd my sifu, but that doesn't mean i'm not his disciple. I know more about him personally, than alot of my classmates. I am the one he would go to the movies with, get coffee with, take him here, take him there. Cover the school for him when he works. So, yeah.....with everything i've experienced, learned, and so on for the last 25 years, there is no piece of paper that will tell me i'm his disciple.

See, I'm the one that many call his son. they all think he is my father.

and in one big way, he is.

[hskwarrior]

what happened buddha joe,

you attack me, spit out some bs about something my sigung told your classmate.

But you fail to realize, that I got my information from Jew Leong directly, not from my classtmate. I can call my sigung anytime I want.

So to you and your classmate, Professor Jew Leong personally thanked me about the efforts and what I wrote about his sifu, and Sigung, and Di-sigung. He thanked me at the grand closing of my Si-sook Tenny Lee's Gung Fu school in the east bay.

So, whatever you are talking about, as long as I have the blessings of Jew Leong, I all good, man.

so what now, plebian?

[hskwarrior]

man you guys got me on a roll,

Plebian buddha Joe

How can you say that Lau Bun's papers were in order when he entered the united states under the name of Wong On Low, and that he worked as a laundry man?

How do I know, because I have Lau Bun's death certificate, that's why.

If his name is Lau Bun, but he entered undered Wong On Low, I think there was some shadiness going on, there. but you won't see that thru beer goggles while looking thru a pair of binoculars.

So now what?

[tungmojingjung]

You can say anything about me you like, people that know me know the truth, Sifu will tell you when I began training with him, it was just me and him. You have no idea. Then most remember me but you. Valerie remembers me, Vern remembers me, Brian remembers me, Yusef knows me, Florence knows me, Dan knows me, Sifu used to tell me to go to Spotford Alley and train with his teacher as well. You can say whatever you like, but any claim i've made I can back it up. I never said Lau Bun teachings was any less traditional than anything else, what I am saying is the curriculums are different even though the foundation is the same. Lau Bun's student and your si gung classmate Johnny Ma made this statement when he retired he'd refer students to two teachers myself and Sifu. I doubt very seriously if he'd do that if I wasn't adequate. Frank you must understand if I never showed up when I said I will, it was probably a good reason behind it, but none the less, ask Sifu if he ever taught me any of the Futsan sets, and then ask him what I had to say about them. I know Sifu didn't go back to re-learn anything, believe me we talk more than you think we do, and thats just my point why go learn the same thing, thats my point, it is different, yet the foundation is the same, but then that can be said about most kung fu styles.

Troy Dunwood
Ying Hung Yat Ga Association

[hskwarrior]

then why didn't you put it that simply instead of sounding like you're attacking me?

So what the sets are different, all that matters is that the foundation is the same. That means we're from there.

Personally, what ever you feel about the Fut San Stuff is your opinion, and for my self, I see many many many similarities in movement, concept, techniques, but like you said, the sets taught are different.

so where's the problem here?

don't act like i don't know you were around, but i never seen you learn anything, or practice with us at all, or even just in the school. You've helped out when you could, but I just don't remember you learning anything.

But if you got some beef with me man, then spit it out, because I've always had your back, but now you're attacking me, and publicly disputing things i've researched about my branch. you act like i'm lying.

but you and i both know i'm not.

[tungmojingjung]

And this truly will be my last post. I've never inmy life buddied up with any of my classmates, it's just not my style, and truly enjoyed my time alone training under Sifu. I like to think of myself as representing kung fu as awhole and not limiting myself to one particular style. I don't have to explain things i've did for Sifu out of a willing heart he knows. Frank i've been learning kung fu since 1969, my first Sifu passed away my second style was hunggar, then came wing chun from one of sifu's students before I started learning from him,in actuality my loyalty should be to my first teacher and system north shaolin, but he taught us to always learn new stuff. No the relationship between Sifu and myself haven't always been great, but in the end our friendship out weighs all else, I knew enough gung fu before I met sifu to last me a lifetime, it is my choice to hang out with hung sing gwoon because of Sifu and not so much gung fu. Well, as far as the prancing fairy style, people have come all the way, prancing from australia to learn it and so some folks are interested. Maybe you should ask Sifu abouta few weeks ago when I was there and we compare clf drunken and the eight immortals style, by his request not mine, I know you consider him old school, so now ask him if its BS or not. In any case I think this got way off base so i'lls ign off now.

[hskwarrior]

troy,

I know more about your background than you realize. I know what's a lie, or what's real. Your business is your business. what you teach, or create is your business.

Truthfully, it doesn't matter to me that I've never seen you practice at our school, and I was going everyday for a while. But I've always recognized you as my classmate, and have stood up for you.

but for you to come at me like the way you did with no explanation, leaves to burned bridges man.

do your thing, i'm gonna keep doing mine.

to everyone Including my sifu if he checks out this thread, I made up nothing about my elders, and everything i told is the truth. If my elders purposely lied to me, then that's not my bad. that's theirs. That would only make them look bad. but I got everything approved before i printed it.

that's why i'm not worried.

[tungmojingjung]

whats a lie and or the truth? go ahead speak on it, all of my learning can be verified, Choy Siu Ming of Chan Family CLF is still around, Man Sing of Eight Immortals lives in SF Chinatown, Chiu Chi Ling is my neigbor here in Alameda, Sifu called for me his friend right there in his house who is also called Dino, who a few years ago had a stroke, and asked him to take me for 7 star mantis, sifu will tell you about Dennis who was Wing Chun, now what is it thats a lie? I don't have to lie about these things, i've been teaching since I was 15 years old, at the east oaklandyouthdevelopment center,in the east bay I'm quite known, just ask anybody here thats been around for awhile, Bill Owens, AlNovak, Max Pallens, Sid Cambell, Steve McCutchins, Luther Secrease etc. My creation is TungMoJingJung, it it has been accepted by the martial arts community from here to china to the extent that most askwhere I learned it from. It's not important if you seen me practice, you know I was there as well as everyone else that was there during those times. But then maybe I was there when you wasn't, thats a possibility, Sifu will tell you I was with him before you came along.

[hskwarrior]

look, what you do with your own gung fu is your business. If you created it, I hope the best for you.

In fact, I my self, support a martial artists creativity. And no matter what you've done, I've supported you.

Who knows you is of no consequence to me, I supported you in whatever you've done.

on this one, you jumped in on me, took the thread in another direction when it didn't have anything to do with you. It had something to do with someone who is printing lies.

As i've said, I interviewed many of my elders, absorbed and took notes and compared it to my other interviews. I've gotten my information directly from my sifu, my sigung, and many of my si-sook gungs who were Lau Bun's students. I've even taught my stick fighting to one of Lau Bun's students who also shared information on his sifu.

I have no beef with you troy, so you can either back down, or PM me, email me, or call me and let me know what your beef is. If if it's about something that recently went down, then you only have half the story.

you need to set things straight. you are coming at me hella foul for no reason.

[hskwarrior]

Simple as this Troy,

You got beef? yes or no?

if not, explain why you're jumping on me.

I ain't gonna argue with you, you do what you do. but if you got beef, let it be known.

if something needs to be handled let that be known.


You started this, not me.

[buddajoe]

Perhaps I can make it easier for you to understand:
I could say that sifu Jew gave the studio’s pictures to David Dea who gave them to dino. which you used in articles without permission.
I could say the weapons, drums and lions from hung sing studio are not in the hands of dino for a reason.
I could also say that the red spear that Lau Bun practiced in his lifetime is in the hands of Larry Johnson the first Caucasian who became a sifu in 1978 and presented to him by jew sifu.
I could say that a sifu who calls himself a grandmaster today was beaten to a pulp by a George Long student over thirty years ago.
i could also say i know the contents of the safe kept by Lau Bun.
Although I know everything I have said is true I cannot verify it! (i couldn't resist acting like you) Just because someone repeats a untrue, unverified story does not make it gospel. You must have proof or evidence: a newspaper, eyewitness account, or even a police report. It would be better to research Lau Bun good deeds, his huge contributions to Chinatown outside of kung-fu than this puerile interest in blood and gore.

[Fu-Pow]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Hard Fists]

You really are making your style look bad you know...no offense meant, but y'all sound like some strait b!tches.

[hskwarrior]

so tell me what is untrue??

If I'm lying, then let me know where.

As I've said, Jew Leong gave me his blessings, my sifu approved of it, and so forth.

So, if my elders approved of what I wrote, then I'm not worried about you or what you think.

When I wanted to know about me sifu, I went to him. When I wanted to know about my sigung, i went to him, his higher up students, and so forth. when i wanted to know about lau bun I went to many of Lau Buns students.

so I don't see where i am telling a lie?!?!?!?!?!

[hskwarrior]

Look, I don't really care who you are, or who you know.

I'm not sure who you are referring to that got beat up, but that makes no difference to me. Even bruce lee got his ass whipped from time to time.

IF you are referring to my sifu, then spit it out. This is something I've never heard of in my life.

If i don't already know what was in the safe, for example a six shooter or something, I could easily find out in a heart beat. See, i'm connected in with my elders, so I see no problem.

why are you so afraid to reveal yourself, either publicly, or privately to me? you're talking alot of smack for someone who hides behind a false name. are you afraid that whatever you say will get back to my sifu and you will have to deal with him? why the anonymity? what are you hiding from? don't you think you revealed a little about yourself when you mentioned someone getting beat up.

I can verify if you know anything or not. or if people know you. you know who I am and who my sifu is, so what's the problem?

[hskwarrior]

hey buddhajoe,

you wouldn't happen to be Fat Joe the Mexican of Hung Sing can you? Oh, and by the way, on the pictures the were given to my sifu, not loaned or to hold, but given to him, it was he that gave me the permission to post any of the pictures I have. How do you think I got them? Stole them out of his school? he let me take photo's of the photo's. now, what lies and misinterpretations are you going to come up with?

See, Larry Johson, the white elephant, I know who he is, and have him on film.

but if you're fat Joe, then it explains why you speak the way you do.

So what's your Point?

[The Xia]

I thoroughly enjoyed reading your zoomshare essays. Its fascinating to read about America's first Gung Fu teacher. Btw, whats the story with Anthony Quinn? Is he a confirmed Lau Bun student or is this just hearsay?

[hskwarrior]

the Xia,

thanks for the kind words about my sites and what i've written.

About anthony quinn the actor, i don't believe he was like a regular student because there were very few people Professor Lau wold deal with that wasn't chinese. One of our si-sooks told us about this and says there are actual photo's, so i went to some other si-sooks who seem to confirm its validity.

By more than a few (i'm not sure if I asked DFW on this yet, but we have been staying in contact with each other).

thx

hsk

[The Xia]

Interesting stuff. Regular student or not, it seems like a big thing for Lau Bun to have dealt with a non-Chinese. Makes you wonder what about Anthony Quinn instilled trust in Lau Bun.