Brass Hall Eight Immortals Boxing

[tungmojingjung]

I just received a PM from someone enquiring about Eight Immortals Boxing and my repeated claim that our style was and is an original method passed down from the ancestors of Wu Dang and formalized through our founder Lau Chan Mee.

Once again let me clarify this yet one more time because it seems some folks have a comprehension problem. I have always stated that many styles of kung fu have their own respective drunken skills, however those drunken skills are added elements to those systems. For example Choy Lee Fut has its own drunken sets yet its not the core of their systems only an element. In other words CLF is not built around drunken shape boxing if you get my point. You see when you learn CLF for example you will probably start with the horse, then move to footwork, then progress to defensive hands, offensive hands, combination skills before learning your first set. In this process there is no drunken element taught at this stage of training.

On the other hand the Eight Immortals Boxing is similar, in the fact that we begin with the foundation (horse), however here is where the initial drunken elements begin.

Students begin with 7 Star Steps, which trains the horse and various stepping patterns around the maze of the 7 gourds or bowls.

Students will then progress to different body motions more of the evasive type before moving into defensive hand movements which compise of: entangling, slipping and seizing, lastly at this stage student will begin to learn various usage of what is typically known as the "cup" hand, or basic offensive hands.

The next step will be learning the first fist form Small Circular Fist, which is desined to teach the student continuity, maintaining his/her flow through the process of movement so as to not impede the eight immortals student movement or fighting technique.

Along with other skills like eight divine fist, little eight immortals fist, skills of this level are designed to train the bio-mechanical motions of the body yet not entering the drunken character stage at this junction. This is just the beginning or foundation work involved in our style, which we term fighting skill. There are (3) levels of training in our style 1. fighting skill, 2. drunken shape 3. internal cultivation.

Now I will say just because you are not aware of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Our Brass Hall kung fu in actuality means that our kung fu was taught out of the Brass Hall of Mt# Wu Dang that still exist to this day. It's not my job to convince anyone on the authenticity of the Brass Hall Eight Immortals System. Our Eight Immortals Chi Gong Form is still being taught in china, while much else has resorted to the like of contemporary wu-shu. On this past trip my Si-Hing Man Sing and I were asked to stay longer to teach the original methods, seeing that our instructions have come from the last direct heir of that Lau family, Lau Yee Chan, but couldn't beacuse of responsibilities and obligations here in the states. Eight Immortals kung fu is real and does exist, not just as a set but a complete system. I invite you to witness our skills and make your comparisons and then you can judge for your self, not relying on speculation and conjecture.

Troy Dunwood
Lau Family Eight Immortals Boxing
www.tungmojingjung.com

[neilhytholt]

Students begin with 7 Star Steps, which trains the horse and various stepping patterns around the maze of the 7 gourds or bowls.

Troy Dunwood
Lau Family Eight Immortals Boxing
www.tungmojingjung.com

Could you please describe a little more the 7 star stepping? How is this done with the bowls and gourds, are they laid out in a pattern or something?

There's like hardly any info on this style anywhere that I can find. Do you know if there's some documentation or video anywhere?

Thanks!

[Fu-Pow]

tungmo-

You might try and post this in the internal arts forum you might get more of response seeing as this is a Wu Dang art and I'm guessing shares some similarities with the Taiji, Xing Yi, Ba Gua and Liu He Ba Fa.

FP

[tungmojingjung]

Nei,

The 7 Star Steps is designed for students of our style to manoeuvre their stance and footwork within a particular parameter as dictated by the formation. There are two parts to this series with the first being a solo practice and the second being paired. Various types of footwork skills are utilized so as to promote balance and control as well as agility. The gourds serve liken unto legs of an opponent. Characteristically this skill emphasizes advance, retreat, charging and escaping etc. 7 Star Steps is one of the treasured skills of the Lau Family Eight Immortals System.

[tungmojingjung]

Fu Pow,

The Lau Family Eight Immortals system shares a dual status as being a external and internal system with the internal being moreso promoted at the end, why?

In the beginning students are taught what we consider fighting skill either in direct fashion or drunken shape which deals mainly in the external aspects of our style. My Sifu would say this part of our training would be liken unto a wild tiger tiger roaming around. After a considerable amount of time spent he would say when student is ready for the higher stages of Eight Immortals Boxing it would be literally time to "tame the tiger". But then all Wu Dang isn't internal. From external we learn internal and from internal we learn external the two are truly linked together as one, but then thats another story.

[TenTigers]

what is external? I have never seen any traditional Martial Art that would be external. These terms did not even exist until 1900's with the articles written by Sun Lu-Tang, who first coined the phrase internal systems referring to Hsing-Yi, Ba Gua, and Tai Ch'i, none of which originated at WuDan. I really don't understand what you are speaking of. Could you please elaborate?

[tungmojingjung]

In regards to kung fu every thing you do is external, we really can't get outside of that, as long as we're human beings will will continue to do things externally so and that includes kung fu. But Like I said earlier, external and internal they go hand in hand not truly separated from each other, or least in my opinion.

In regards to internal of the eight immortals system. Specifically speaking on the Eight Immortals Chi Gong System, where in this reference most of the system uses various breathing skills also coordinated movement with breath in a very slow and relaxed manner. Unlike the Eight Immortals Boxing which typically calls for moreso "brute or natural" strength. The chi gong or internal aspect focus more on breathing exercises to promote a smooth flow of that great oxygenated blood throughout the body and its internal organs to ward off sickness and maintain a healthy body along with other things.

[Fu-Pow]

Fu Pow,

The Lau Family Eight Immortals system shares a dual status as being a external and internal system with the internal being moreso promoted at the end, why?

In the beginning students are taught what we consider fighting skill either in direct fashion or drunken shape which deals mainly in the external aspects of our style. My Sifu would say this part of our training would be liken unto a wild tiger tiger roaming around. After a considerable amount of time spent he would say when student is ready for the higher stages of Eight Immortals Boxing it would be literally time to "tame the tiger". But then all Wu Dang isn't internal. From external we learn internal and from internal we learn external the two are truly linked together as one, but then thats another story.

Cool.;) :D :D :D

[fiercest tiger]

Hung Gar = External

Taiji = Internal

This easy to see, you just trying to be difficult bro! ;)

[tungmojingjung]

Now concerning my position within the Eight Immortals Style family, I am and was the last taught by my Sifu Lau Yee Chan, who happened to be the last direct family member of the acknowledge formulator of our style Lau Chan Mee. My Si-Hing Man Sing has been with my teacher for many years and even travelled with him from China to the States. Now it may sound strange to some that I am considered the head master of our system when one who is my senior in rank is still around, but Man Sing didn't question the old man and neither shall I. I consider Man Sing the actual leader of this school being that he's more experienced in skill and time wise and we still meet on a regular basis for corrections and fine tuning, yet he has no desire to promote the system, as he say's he'll leave that up to the young. I hope that this has made it clear the relationship between myself and my Si-Hing Man Sing.

Now per my teacher wishes I will begin a passionate effort in promoting this school of kung fu along with teachings of my Sifu Dino Salavatera of the Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut school so as to dispel fact from fiction as it was passed onto me. No, our eight immortals boxing is not wu shu and no we share no commonalities with anyone else. Many people when speaking on Eight immortals kung fu commonly think about drunken boxing, however there are many different aspect to this system than than. For example preserved within our system are various wu dong sword skills and a unique 3 man wu dong sword sparring set that I believe has never been taught outside the family, also there is the unique skill "gim gee" or sword fingers that plays predominately as if one has lost his sword utilizing his sword finger for attacking various vital locations of the body. So in essence there is truly more to this kung fu than portraying one as if they were drunk, but then that the beginning and like most styles, the sifu allows the tiger to roam, and if you stick around for awhile perhaps you'll be tamed (by this we mean: temperance, character, loyalty etc.), to gain true insights of your respective disciplines.

[neilhytholt]

and if you stick around for awhile perhaps you'll be tamed (by this we mean: temperance, character, loyalty etc.), to gain true insights of your respective disciplines.

<rant>

Why does everybody always talk about character and wude and stuff. I mean, do these teachers really think there's no such thing as a GUN now? Sticking around for the applications is so stupid now that you are fighting people with GUNS.

</rant>

[tungmojingjung]

My friend, people talk about character and wude and stuff because if not there would be an extreme, so character and wu de helps bring about balance I mean internally within ones self. But then some people learn for fighting only, no need for this, yet some learn it as a cultural activity and seek the full spectrum. I guess in reality what ever floats your boat. And then it is an art form and wu de is an integral part of traditional chinese martial arts. If I were a jerk (too extreme) with my kung fu it would bring a bad name to my sifu, so wu de steps in to put it into perspective to add balance or harmony, or at least in my opinion.

[neilhytholt]

My friend, people talk about character and wude and stuff because if not there would be an extreme, so character and wu de helps bring about balance I mean internally within ones self. But then some people learn for fighting only, no need for this, yet some learn it as a cultural activity and seek the full spectrum. I guess in reality what ever floats your boat. And then it is an art form and wu de is an integral part of traditional chinese martial arts. If I were a jerk (too extreme) with my kung fu it would bring a bad name to my sifu, so wu de steps in to put it into perspective to add balance or harmony, or at least in my opinion.

<rant>
IMHO I don't agree with wude. Wude seems to be used as an excuse by wushu teachers not to teach applications when the teacher either wants to string you out for $$$ or because they do not know the applications.

If somebody is going to be so dumb as to run out and get in fights and all that, then yes, they are a lower kindof criminal and should not be taught. But what lower kind of criminal takes martial arts these days and acts like that? Most of them are running around with guns and knives selling drugs, not wasting their precious time until they get killed or incarcerated taking martial arts classes.
</rant>

Anyways, it's not a big deal. I just think the people that run around preaching wude and pretending to act all cultured are weirdos, because this is the 21st century, not a scene out of a Wong Fei Hung movie.

[tungmojingjung]

Nei,

I agree with you. I believe when you learn something you should also learn how to use, if not why bother. However in the earlier post it was more geared to internal aspect of training however I do believe if you are taught something today you should also be taught its usage.

[hasayfu]

Hung Gar = External
Taiji = Internal

This easy to see, you just trying to be difficult bro! ;)

I see the smiley so assume you are joking. I would more accurately write

Hung Gar = External blending with Internal
Most Taiji = External pretending to be Internal ;)

TT is correct about the distinction of Internal styles vs. External styles (NeiJia Vs WaiJia) coming from Sun Lu Tang and turned into a political statement for those system rooted in Taoist (Internal to China) priniciples vs. Buddhist (External to China). The later was a misnomer as the chinese version of buddhism had so much Taoism in it that the distinction was arbitrary.

The path from External to Internal workings (Waigong to Neigong) that TMJ talks about is very old and one that most TCMA strives for. The path and results are different but at high levels, TCMAs strive for economy of motion and the use of "internal" strength vs. brute force to achieve results.

[tungmojingjung]

To give a more in depth summary on the foundation of the Eight Immortals Boxing, it is highly important to go back to its beginnings. First of all what we have today "Brass Hall Eight Immortals Boxing", has its roots within the Eight Immortals Chi Gong system. In times past this aspect of the Brass Hall teachings was offered first to allow the student to learn how to relax which is the beginning stage of manipulating one's internal force.

Eight Immortals Boxing is constantly changing its patterns and dependent upon the situation utilizes various types of energy. Eight Immortals Chi Gong is the foundation of this aspect of our style. A student, traditionally would never begin with a drunken shape skill without first studying the bio-mechanical motions or Eight Shapes, that are practiced in stationary form so as to understand the core postures of the system based upon each of the eight characters. Here we begin to learn about balancing the postures, structure, rooting etc.

When a student begins to exercise the base teachings of this kung fu he is literally exercising the postures, checking his structure etc. This phase would be liken unto training and developing the body in stationary form firstly then exercising the stationary movements after.

Here as well students will begin to exercise energy changes coupled with various movements, for example the movement "immortal offers a cup" requires a whipping type of energy, as the student previously exercised the closed door horse(stationary posture) which utilizes the whipping action of the movement immortal offers a cup. At this junction the student can better understand the union between the two and have control ultimately.

When a student have exercised the basics in satisfactory form only then would they be able to advance to the first boxing series small circular fist which gives a continuous perspective of energy and continuity.

This is the foundational of the Lau Family Eight Immortals style.